An open letter to Simon Jordan - OLD THREAD REVISITED

[James]

NOTE: This is an old thread, originally started in October 2000!!



Dear Simon,

I need to start this letter by thanking you for stepping in to rescue our Club from Administration. If this sounds insincere, it really isn't.

You are a young, and very successful businessman. You are clearly hard working, and I am sure that a great deal of your success is attributable to your drive and enthusiasm, as well as your ability to motivate those who work for you and with you. You have no need to justify yourself to anyone: what you have achieved in business is ample evidence of your talents.

To succeed, as you have done, requires huge confidence - even arrogance - with an unswerving belief in your own abilities.

Your great success has given you a huge amount of power. You now own, and control, a football club which means a great deal to its thousands of supporters, not to mention the many staff and employees at the Club.

I am sure that when you first considered buying Palace, you had no doubt at all, that you would be able to apply those same talents in restoring our Club to its former glories. Perhaps you still believe that is the case, and eventually your self-confidence will be shown to be justified once again.

In my business, I have met many people like you. Indeed some of my closest friends are Clients (or former clients) who have taken a gamble on their own talents, and succeeded on their own. I have come to recognise a common characteristic in these people: at the time of their greatest success they feel invulnerable, omnipotent and all powerful. They believe that having cracked one business, they can succeed anywhere.

Unfortunately, it usually isn't true. What works in one business, doesn't work in another. Motivating young businessmen (for example) is quite different from motivating tradesmen or labourers.

You can probably see where this is leading. In the mobile 'phone business, your mixture of encouragement, pep talks and bullying probably worked a treat. You had employees who were anxious to adopt your work ethics, and talk your language, in order to climb up the ladder of success with you. I expect that, in the main, your employees well fairly well educated, and adopted well to this corporate 'discipline'.

I don't believe that this approach works at a professional football club.

Now I do not claim to understand how a football club should be run... but I know a man who does. Over the years as a vice-president of the Club (and more recently as a Season Ticket holder in the Directors' Box) I got to know Ron Noades quite well. We were never good friends, and in fact I never really warmed to him. Noades made mistakes in the job, but by the time he sold the Club to Goldberg, he had learned by his mistakes, and knew the ropes. Under Noades, the Club indisputably had its most successful period ever - the FA Cup Final, numerous promotions, and several trips to Wembley.

Ron tells me that when he first discussed your take-over (which he encouraged and supported) he offered to help you. In fact, you came close to agreeing an arrangement whereby Noades would manage the Club for you - at least for the first few years while you found your feet. You may know that Noades made the same offer to Mark Goldberg (another businessman who found success in one area, but who was unable to transfer that success to Palace.

It didn't surprise me that in the event you decided that you could do without Noades. Goldberg made the same decision, based upon his misplaced arrogance. It won't surprise you to hear that Ron Noades forecast that you would soon be in the mess which you now find yourself.

You also decided that you could do without the Supporters' Trust - a group of motivated and intelligent Palace fans, who were (and still are) prepared to make financial sacrifices for the good of the Club. You met with the Trust members during your difficult negotiations with Paterson and Jerry Lim, and received their support. In fact, if you are honest, you may acknowledge that you received more than support: it was the Trust who effected your initial introduction to Lim. The Trust were prepared to help, and at one time it looked as if you would welcome a Trust representative onto the Board. Again, it did not surprise me greatly when you decided that you could do very well without them as well.

In all likelihood, it wouldn't have made a great deal of difference to the Team if you HAD invited the Trust to nominate a Board member, but it certainly would have helped you to maintain and develop your relationship with the fans. As it is, in some quarters, you are regarded as the root cause of the Club's problems and there have been calls for you to step down. This may be grossly unfair, in view of what might have occurred had you not arrived, but it is a clear sign that your public relations have not been ideal.

Let's face it, you are now in a real mess. You parted Company with a real Palace hero when you took over, and appointed someone who was not up to the task of managing a big Club. Alan Smith is a lovely bloke, and he is certainly great with kids, but he commands no respect from the professional. I am sure that you knew Ron Noades' view of Smith before you made the appointment. Perhaps that's WHY you made the appointment.

... and here is the crux of this letter. I think I know the sort of person that you are. You are an exceptionally proud man, who finds it very difficult to admit that he could make a mistake. You do not suffer fools gladly, and you see fools wherever you look. Perhaps subconsciously, you surround yourself with sycophants, who will tell you exactly what you want to hear, and you continue to believe that you are on the right track, but have been frustrated by the failings of others, or simply through bad luck. It is quite likely that you regarded Noades, not exactly as a fool, but as an arrogant man in his own right, who was not your mark. You were not prepared to accept his guidance, and I am sure that you cannot now admit (even to yourself) that he may have been right.

I don't think that you can admit that Smith was a poor appointment. You probably can't face the Press Conference, where you would be forced to admit that you got it wrong. Worse still, you have no real idea about a replacement. Perhaps you thought about Fashanu, but you will by now have read the comments on the BBS, and you must know that this would be a disastrous appointment. However, if you don't do something very soon, the mess which surrounds you will get worse, until it will be too late to avoid a complete collapse.

I think you should call Ron Noades (although if you disagree with me you certainly won't be alone - and I expect the comments below to testify to this - Noades was not at all good at handling PR). I also think that you should ask the Trust to nominate a Board representative. Once you have done this, you should listen to what others have to say - quietly and objectively.

Life certainly is unfair, isn't it Simon? From hero to villain in a few short months. You rescue a Club, and having invested a fortune in doing so, the fans turn against you.... but that IS life. Owning a football club is probably destined ultimately to bring you grief, even if you get all the breaks. You haven't had too many breaks it has to be said.

I hope you make the right decision. I don't have your money, but I can assure you that the success of our South London Club means as much to me as it does to you. Good luck - you need it.

James

[Al From Bromley]

Hope some poor client isnt being billed for the time spent on this letter James! http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/smile.gif

I agree with the sentiment of the letter except for the bit about people calling for him to step down. I don't want him to step down, just to recognise that, as you touched upon, what works in one business doesnt necessarily work in another. Bullying tactics, ruling with a rod of iron, talking down to employees, blatantly swearing and shouting at them, call it what you will, in my experience doesnt achieve results, and i get the impresion that there is a fair amount of that going on in SE25 at the moment.

The result? Disillusioned, demotivated staff and an air of despondency. Maybe only amongst the non playing staff, but such atmospheres DO rub off throughout the organisation in the end.

[AlanW]

That's just exactly what I was gonna post http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/smile.gif Have you sent him a copy ? Does he know your the one with the camera?

Not so sure about phoning Noades, maybe Bates!! http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/smile.gif

[northernsouler]

dear james
I am having problems sleeping especially on saturday nights, have been suffering bouts of depression, my work mates poke fun at me
and my skin which once was thick is becoming prickly. Despite these symptoms my GP can find no physical illness. do I need proffesional help ?

[Brett]

Personally I would find that letter quite patronising and offensive. But then Im not the Chairman.

[Al From Bromley]

...thing is though Brett, some might say that Jordan himself is patronising and offensive?

I'm telling you, if your boss spoke to you the way he spoke to one of his staff on Monday you would tell him where to poke his job.

[Trolley]

Originally posted by James:
that, in the main, your employees well fairly well educated, and adopted well to this corporate 'discipline'.

James

James,

I believe you meant to write "Your employees WERE fairly well educated"

There is a golden rule which states that one must check one's letter before despatching it.I am surprised you did not adhere to it.

[Brett]

I know Al. But that is precisely why he wont bother reading it anyway. He wont like someone talking down to him.

Whether he likes it or not is not the point I know. He has made mistakes, but I hazard a guess that me made a few starting out in Mobile Telecommunications.

And I wouldnt take kindly to a self confessed Noades supporting reminding me in a tone which says you fecked it, ner ner ner.

[Gerry from Sussex]

I agree with Brett I'm afraid. He will certainly find it patronising and I doubt very much if the letter will have any positive effect.

Thing is, although he may well share the characteristics of many other self made businessmen, we actually don't know him well enough to make those kind of assumptions with such certainty.

The real issue is that Jordon has not given any indication at all of how he views the current crisis (and that's what it is now), or how he is thinking about responding to it. As long as that stays the same then I suppose he is inviting this kind of criticism whether it's justified or not. For God's sake, Simon Patterson was more communicative than this!!

[clubbruggekvfc]

Dear Simon,

May I say firstly, I am deeply grateful to you for saving Crystal Palace football club. It was a noble, selfless and philanthropic gesture, from a young, dynamic and self-made businessman, with an astute mind, and erudite wit. Once again a sincere thank you.

Now piss off and go and play mind games with somebody else's team, and take Alan Smith with you.


Yours sincerely


Club Brugge KV FC

[This message has been edited by clubbruggekvfc (edited 25 October 2000).]

[James]

Brett has me bang to rights...

Personally I would find that letter quite patronising and offensive. But then Im not the Chairman.

Yes, Brett - you are quite right of course. It would be dishonest of me to suggest that I wrote the letter with the intention of winning his friendship and influencing him.

I certainly don't expect him to listen to me. He won't pay much attention to my ramblings, no matter what I write. However, perhaps he may read my letter and it may make him feel a bit uncomfortable.

Despite what I wrote in my open letter, I suspect that Simon is lacking in self-confidence. That is why he needs the sycophants around him. It would also explain why he publicly chastised his PA (if Al's story is to be believed). He wants people to regard him as a big, tough, businessman. He needs people to tell him what a great job he is doing. I imagine that he is easily intimidated by those who are better educated than him, and he resists this by bullying (as wealthy people are able to do in many cases).

Well spotted Brett. I am undone.


[This message has been edited by James (edited 25 October 2000).]

[Brett]

You do do a nice line in sarcasm though James!

[Adrian]

James is right in what he says of course but my worry is that simply because Jordan is the person we think he is, this will only make him back into a corner more. If this is his persona, then he doesn't HAVE the ability to turn it round: it's like Goldberg all over again - but by a different route.

God, I'm depressed.....

[SE25 exile]

I am glad that someone is now pointing the finger at the root cause. It has taken some time, but James has got it right. Problems start from the top down, and SJ has a lot to do yet to become a sucessful football club chairam, like having thirty years under his belt, for example. In the meantime, he could transfer power to a safe pair of hands, like a new and longer in the tooth manager, and then go away to some island in the Maldives, only communicating with one of his mobile phones. Perhaps he could set up a new WAP phone company to give him his excuse to get up in the morning. In the meantime, thanks for saving the club, but now can he pass on the responsibility and power to someone who understands the game.

[Martin H]

It's got to be said - James, the note IS truly patronising. However well intentioned it may have been, it is difficult to see how the approach you have taken could ever succeed with SJ himself. First you set yourself up as an expert on 'people like him' (note how highly successful individuals just love to be pigeon-holed) and then you with great insight point out his weaknesses, blind spots and arrogance, you old flatterer you. This is quickly followed by emphasising the cras decision to sack Sir Steve and then you segue into praising the 'great Ron' and wait for it, suggest he asks him and the trust for help and wisdom.

Laugh, I nearly cried!

Anyway, I don't care too much either way, because I've met people like . . . . . .

Great stuff Big J. Go on tell another one!



I guess your open letter was indeed meant for everyone else but SJ.

[Brett]

SE25exile - wipe your arse when you've finished talking.

[SE .Kent]

No club or supporters could have had more pride and dignity last year . This year headed by our new culture guru and ably assisted by our chameleon manager and spoilt brat players a new yob culture has been established where dignity and respect have flown out the window. What a great club !

[Soul Music]

northernsouler wrote:
I am having problems sleeping especially on saturday nights, have been suffering bouts of depression, my work mates poke fun at me
and my skin which once was thick is becoming prickly. Despite these symptoms my GP can find no physical illness. do I need proffesional help ?
===========================================
No, but I'd suggest you keep taking the pills - either that or find a decent allnighter! http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Gizmo]

Originally posted by Soul Music:
northernsouler wrote:
I am having problems sleeping especially on saturday nights, have been suffering bouts of depression, my work mates poke fun at me
and my skin which once was thick is becoming prickly. Despite these symptoms my GP can find no physical illness. do I need proffesional help ?

===========================================
No, but I'd suggest you keep taking the pills - either that or find a decent allnighter! http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/smile.gif

Alternatively he could always listen to Soul 24.7 via the net on Fri at 8-10 p.m.

[SE25 exile]

Originally posted by Brett:
SE25exile - wipe your arse when you've finished talking.

You sweet talker, Brett. You have made me blush!

[ruediger]

This is a very sensible posting by James.
I honestly hope Simon Jordan reads this intelligent piece of Palace loyalty.

But I doubt he'll draw the right conclusions.

[philaire]

It's taken till the (current) end of the thread but thank you Reudiger for that! I totally agree, James' effort was most worthwhile, and I hope SJ reads it. Who knows how SJ's mind works, and I couldnt care less if he finds it patronising.

[Regal Eagle]

James...you are mostly right when talking about the way Simon Jordan seems to be managing.
I was at an event on Tues night when both Smith and Jordan spoke.
Smith was an absolute joke. Swearing and blamimg everyone else for his problems. He thought he was amusing but no-one was laughing. My thought was, once again, that Smith could not motivate a man in a brothel. He was pathetic. It is no wonder that players do not have any respect for him. As a senior manager in a multi-national myself if I were to critise my staff in public like he does I would expect to get the sack instantly.
As for Jordan, well he emphasised that he paid for the club, its his, and no-one needs to tell him what to do.
He does seem to have yes-men around him. Poor old Mike Sullivan was so grovelling it was embarrasing.
Jordan obviously has an enormous ego and a superiority complex born out of making a success out of his phone business. He will definately not admit he made a mistake by appointing Smith as it will be a reflection on his ability. He is not one to admit he ballsed something up. It would make him a bigger man in everyones eyes if he did.
It was obvious that both of them lacked the man-management skills needed the environment they are now in.
I have now no doubt whatsover that Smith should go and be replaced by someone who the players can respect. If I was working for Smith I would resign immediately. Unfortunately the players cannot do that. They can just fall out with him and hope that they are put on the transfer list and another club come in to get them.
Palace has been my life for quite a few decades now and I have never been so depressed about the situation, not even last year
I might even go to a few Wimbledon games to see some players happy in their job.

[Sandy of Cornwall]

Love most of the letter James; except the paragraph that starts "...and here is the crux of the letter" and the following paragraph too, both sound patronising and I think you should amend them slightly.

[Brett]

What I would find offensive, would be the number of people on this thread who think they know me and what made me tick.

Call it arrogant, but I'd take a wad of fifty pound notes wave them in your face and say, do I give a sh!t about your character assasinations?

[Sandy of Cornwall]

I agree Brett. I tried to put it more tactfully though by saying two paragraphs of James' letter sounded a tad patronising. But then all solciitors' letters sound patronising. Believe me, I know.

[Brett]

Sandy, you should know by now that tact never works on the BBS. And also that 'tact' is not in my nature.

[Gaffer]

Originally posted by Brett:
And also that 'tact' is not in my nature.

Gadzooks, Brett, are you sure? http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Fat Andy]

I don't think that you can admit that Smith was a poor appointment. You probably can't face the Press Conference, where you would be forced to admit that you got it wrong.

James[/B][/QUOTE]

Interesting that he's now attending the 'fans forum' on Monday, I shall be interested to hear his response.

[Bob S]

Are you going on Monday James, and if so are you going to make these points to him?

[James]

Thank you for your comments Brett and Sandy. I know that the letter sounds patronising, and I suppose I have to admit that this was intentional.

If Jordan chooses to do so, he could indeed reciprocate, by waving a wad of cash in my face (this would I think translate into something along the lines of "I, Simon Jordan, am much younger than you James, and I have already made more money that you can ever hope to do".) It would be difficult to argue with that.

I have already admitted (more or less) that I didn't write the letter with the intention of winning him over. His reaction to my letter will be one of dismissal. He wouldn't want to admit that he had read it, let alone accept that I may have anything useful to say. No doubt he has less respect for me, than I have for him. Unfortunately, if my letter does anything, it may well polarise his attitude and make him even more stubborn.

I wrote it out of exasperation. Jordan bullies his staff, and commands little respect. He appears unable to accept criticism, so his staff tell him what he wants to hear. Everything must be done his way - he won't adapt .. others have to adapt to him. Of course there are dozens of people like Jordan, but Jordan happens to be the one who has control of the Club I support.

[Bob S]

James? Monday?

[ruediger]

Originally posted by James:
Of course there are dozens of people like Jordan, but Jordan happens to be the one who has control of the Club I support.

That's so true.
We'll have to cope with a tricky situation. But I don't know really how.
- Is this the time for a protest ("sack Smith")?
- Is this the time to bully Simon Jordan on Monday?
- Is this the time to get the TRUST going again (in support with financial backers)?
http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/confused.gif



[This message has been edited by ruediger (edited 26 October 2000).]

[Brett]

James. What WOULD be interesting is this. Simon asks you to come and spend a week observing his style, in a no holds barred way. He wont of course, but maybe if you was to suggest such an exercise next time you meet in the Directors box?

Of course such a scheme would be fruitless if Jordan was to doctor events to give an artificial impression.

But wouldnt you be interested in partaking?

[James]

Fat Andy quoted me thus:

I don't think that you [Jordan] can admit that Smith was a poor appointment. You probably can't face the Press Conference, where you would be forced to admit that you got it wrong.

and continued

Interesting that he's now attending the 'fans forum' on Monday, I shall be interested to hear his response.

Attending a Fan's Forum to put his case, and to justify himself, is hardly the same thing as facing a Press Conference to admit that he made a monumental mistake by appointing Smith - against the advice given by Noades and others. I don't think he could do that. Unless I completely misjudged the man, Monday's exercise will be to repeat his previously stated views, avoid answering any really awkward questions, and get some cheap applause by making optimistic forecasts about the coming Season.

He should be asked to explain why he paid so much for the Club with an unprotected 10 year lease (with a 12 month break option).

He should be asked to state whether he has been negotiating to relocate our Club.

He should be asked to explain why he allows his manager to castigate his Players in Public (no matter how much this may be deserved).

He should be asked why he has turned his back on the Trust.

He should be asked to explain where the money which he claims he has spent on new players has gone (itemise the amounts on a player by player basis and tot it up)

He should be pressed until he gives clear and unequivocal answers to all these questions.

I won't be there unfortunately. I shall be in Disney, Paris with my children..... a Mickey Mouse outfit which is well run, and knows how to treat its customers.

[Gladys Allover]

Is there anyone else to blame??

During the past couple of weeks it has been the chairman's fault, the manager's fault, the lazy players fault, the crystal cheerleaders fault, Lap Hing's fault....etc etc.

Jordan has publicly backed Smith who is trying to clear up the mess left behind from the period of administration. Goldberg is the biggest cuplrit of them all and was lucky to get out alive last season without us going down. Unfortunately what he and Venables did is only just kicking in and that is where the real problems lie.

Smith is doing his best to bring in players who want to play for the club and Jordan is backing him by funding it with his own money. It seems to me that they are going about an extrememly difficult task thoughtfully and with a sense of order. The sooner that he can get rid of players who don't want to play for the Palace the better and if Jordan has the money to bring in better, dedicated players then I will support what he is doing.

[James]

Brett asked me:

James. What WOULD be interesting is this. Simon asks you to come and spend a week observing his style, in a no holds barred way. He wont of course, but maybe if you was to suggest such an exercise next time you meet in the Directors box? Of course such a scheme would be fruitless if Jordan was to doctor events to give an artificial impression. But wouldn't you be interested in partaking?


You are quite right Brett. Jordan wouldn't ask me to do this - and if he did I wouldn't accept. Despite the impression I might give on the BBS, I have a very busy job and I couldn't afford the time.

I would, however, be delighted to meet Jordan and form my own view, in the same way as I did when I was invited to meet first Paterson and later, Ron Noades. You may remember that my notes of both meetings were published by the Croydon Advertiser.

Why don't you suggest it to him on Monday?

[Gaffer]

James: I've read your posts with great interest. One question: do you still want Smith out now (as per your call to Palace Radio the other night) or in the light of the transfer listing of these players and Jordan clearly backing him are you going to do the same?

[This message has been edited by Gaffer (edited 26 October 2000).]

[ruediger]

Make no mistake.
Monday's meeting is a non-event.

There'll be one or two who will be impressed with our chairman because Jordan held out firm against a hostile 300-crowd. So what.

It's time to hear something worthwile. Ron Noades, Peter Morley, Richard House for instance should make themselves heard now.

[Brett]

Originally posted by James:
You are quite right Brett. Jordan wouldn't ask me to do this - and if he did I wouldn't accept. Despite the impression I might give on the BBS, I have a very busy job and I couldn't afford the time.

I would, however, be delighted to meet Jordan and form my own view, in the same way as I did when I was invited to meet first Paterson and later, Ron Noades. You may remember that my notes of both meetings were published by the Croydon Advertiser.

Why don't you suggest it to him on Monday?

Sorry James, I wasnt suggesting you wasnt busy (must be thinking of a different kind of shark! http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif LOL).

I can suggest it Monday, but I guess it would be better for you to next time you meet in the directors box.

Only because if I threw the name James Mitchell at him Monday, he might just ignore it.

[This message has been edited by Brett (edited 26 October 2000).]

[Fat Andy]

James,

I was merely pointing out that as he is now appearing on Monday I am sure that a few of your points will be brought up,and I will be interested how he handles it.

He wasn't due to appear but obviously feels that the fans demand some answers. You may well be right about him avoiding the questions and just saying what we might want to hear.

I shall be there and I hope we get to hear some honest answers, I feel him addressing the fans is more important than a press conference as we're the ones that count. It's quite rare for any chairman to publicly criticise his own management choice.

[Bob S]

Originally posted by James:

I won't be there unfortunately. I shall be in Disney, Paris with my children..... a Mickey Mouse outfit which is well run, and knows how to treat its customers.

At least you retain your sense of humour James. Excellent witticism.

[Son of Selhurst]

I have two thoughts about Jordan.

1) He's a top bloke for coming in at the 11th hour and saving our club financially. since then he has spent even more on new players, and even introduced some incentives to get more people at Selhurst Park.

2) He's a millionaire by a recent technology, that basically sells itself to a non-understanding public, who any self-confident arrogant **** with any ounce of balls could sell the earth to. Unfortunately, trying to apply the same principals to football supporters, whose culture has been set in stone for over 130 years, will never work. They want to see good football, good management, and reasonably-priced beer when THEY want to get to the ground.

Anyone who thinks they can re-write football supporting culture in this way will very soon end up on their arse, poor and alone.

The answer?

Swallow your pride and ask the fans for advice, as well as ex-chairmen who have learnt the ropes the hard way.

SoS

[James]

I am very much afraid that Jordan's comments in the Advertiser this week confirm all my worst fears.

[Will S]

The events of this week, are following a predictable pattern of a club in trouble. Jordan's had two options... he's chosen to back his man. Not my choice, but if their decisions produce results there will be a lot humble pie to be eaten by those criticising Jordan/Smith at the moment. However if results and performances continue to be so poor, then sooner or later Smith WILL be sacked, if he doesn't quit first (not that unlikely if the players consistently fail to respond). Jordan won't put his ego ahead of relegation to the second division. The only real question is how bad do things have to get before we reach such a crossroads ?

[Viking]

Originally posted by Brett:
What I would find offensive, would be the number of people on this thread who think they know me and what made me tick.

Call it arrogant, but I'd take a wad of fifty pound notes wave them in your face and say, do I give a sh!t about your character assasinations?

Spot on Brett. Jordans´the man with the plan, and the doe. Everybody starts there threds with"Well, i like that you saved the club but...". Fu*k off! One day it´s"Don´t interfere!", the next"do something...now!", "Don´t be so proud, take advice from the fans", "put us on the board", Yea right. Simon will make us proud, trust me, but by then everybody have forgott all the patronising remarks. I don´t feel sorry for Jordan but give him the respect he deserves. He´s achived more than you and me ever will. Clinton,Mullins and muppet Smith for sale, hurrah!!! Get behind the team!!! U*P THE P*A*L*A*C*E!!!

[Edmundo]

This is really none of my business. But.... a good friend and fellow Brentford supporter works closely with a well known manufacturer of mobile telephones. Apparently Jordan was always regarded as the biggest t*ss*r and b*stard around - a smug and arrogant man who never showed any interest in listening to anyone else's opinion.

It seems like leopards don't change their spots.

[Gaffer]

Edmundo, I think many of us have this from people in the fascinating world of mobile phones. Who knows if these stories are true - or are they borne of jealousy? One can only hope from a Palace perspective that he has a different attitude at Selhurst Park.

[anti-addick]

It must be about a third the way down that he decides to cast it aside and into the recycle bin. Who wouldn't? It's both offensive and immensely patronising.


Get yourself onto the transfer list James.

[James]

I'll do my best anti, and thanks for the invitation.

The BBS is certainly livening up again, and curiously, we seem to be forming into the same factions as those who supported, or criticised, Paterson.

Just in case there is any remaining doubt, my message to Jordan was intended to be patronising.

Thank you, and good night.

[ruediger]

Originally posted by James:
The BBS is certainly livening up again, and curiously, we seem to be forming into the same factions as those who supported, or criticised, Paterson.

Not quite, James. http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif

[James]

Viking wants us to trust him...

Simon will make us proud, trust me, but by then everybody have forgott all the patronising remarks. I don´t feel sorry for Jordan but give him the respect he deserves. He´s achived more than you and me ever will.

It depends upon how you measure achievement, doesn't it Viking?

... so, why should we trust you? More to the point, why should you have such faith in Jordan? What has he done, which makes you so confident that he will make us proud?

Are you worried about the seemingly inevitable move from Selhurst? Are you concerned by his apparent treatment of the Staff at Selhurst?

I know that Simon Jordan reads these threads, and perhaps he contributes to them. He would certainly gain my respect if he posted an attributed response.

Look Viking, I have had a bad day. Life isn't great for many of us at the moment, and I am embarrassed for my Team. Perhaps I have been too hard on Jordan, and I genuinely did mean what I said in the first paragraph of my letter. Ironically, I was one of the many who was urging Paterson to ditch Lim, and deal with Jordan.

If Smith does manage to confound all my expectations, and turn this around, then I hope I will be man enough to eat humble pie, and apologise to him and to our Chairman. In fact, my real worry is that I won't get the chance to do this. Time is running out.

[lightweight]

if smith / jordan do turn things around - we'll need more humble pie than even kevin miller could put away..

seriously - what amazes me is one or two people commenting that jordan hasn't said anything recently - are these the same people who were a few weeks ago saying we'd heard far too much from him - blah blah..

actions speak louder than words - but at the moment - the action on the pitch is showing us that all is not a bed of roses at palace.

From all accounts we've established that Jordan is arrogant, bullish, egotistical - but then most people who have made as much money as he has or have gained the notoriety that he has at a relatively young age, probably are. As has been suggested before there may also be a touch of insecurity - which would make it very difficult for him to admit he was wrong (if indeed he believes he is) or to turn against smith.

It will be interesting to see what he has to say on Monday - one thing I think most of us have said so far is that he hasn't been afraid to say what he thinks - although I expect much of it will be what we've heard before.

I am amazed that there are people who would want him to step down.. 4 short months ago we were welcoming with open arms as the ONLY person who was willing to step up and keep our club existing in it's current format. Anyway - do you really think he would walk away from it at this stage? I think it's a complete waste of time to even suggest it.

As has been well documented - I was swept along with Jordan's optimism and enthusiasm from the start - obviously this is not the case now - but I guess it was inevitable after the trials and tribulations of the last 18months or so. Did anyone really expect everything to just start ticking over nicely immediately jordan stepped in? Of course not - however i doubt even he would have envisaged the huge dip in the rollercoaster that we are experiencing now. The problem is at the moment - we can't see anyway up or out of it... however this is crystal palace we are talking about - and after every high is a low followed by another high and another low.. so surely things can only get better from now on in? At least for a while.. How this will be acheived I don't know - my gut instincts tell me that smith has to go for this to happen - but it looks increasingly unlikely that will occur.. what next then? a complete new set of players? a new manager? maybe / maybe not.. let's just hope that one way or another all this negativity will be long forgotten by the end of the season...

[James]

A good, measured, sensible post lightweight. You put me to shame.

I'm going to Disney, and I will try to forget Palace *****il Saturday afternoon in any event).

James

[Bungalow]

Having been out all day, I've just read all of this thread which has prompted some great replies.
James, your letter contains some interesting and sensible comment about SJ listening to the fans,involving the Trust in some way and changing the way he treats staff. I agree in general with these sentiments and hope SJ takes them on board.
I am amazed however at your suggestion he calls Ron. SJ won't do it anyway but what makes you think Ron would either want to or be able to help? He's moved on now and I can't imagine why he would want to help Jordan. In fact,I suspect he is quietly enjoying watching Jordan suffer some of the vitriol which he endured from time to time.

ps.James-I hope you don't charge by the word!!

[Nobby]

Originally posted by Will S:
The events of this week, are following a predictable pattern of a club in trouble. Jordan's had two options... he's chosen to back his man. Not my choice, but if their decisions produce results there will be a lot humble pie to be eaten by those criticising Jordan/Smith at the moment. However if results and performances continue to be so poor, then sooner or later Smith WILL be sacked, if he doesn't quit first (not that unlikely if the players consistently fail to respond). Jordan won't put his ego ahead of relegation to the second division. The only real question is how bad do things have to get before we reach such a crossroads ?

Quite.

[ruediger]

Originally posted by James:
Ironically, I was one of the many who was urging Paterson to ditch Lim, and deal with Jordan.

Which is a shame.
Sour grapes, I know.

[Viking]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by James:
[b]Viking wants us to trust him...

Are you concerned by his apparent treatment of the Staff at Selhurst?

Look Viking, I have had a bad day. (end Quote)
Me to James. Actually a couple of bad days so i can relate to that. I must admit i can´t comment about how the staff are treated. If it´s bad i´m disgusted.
You James have a big impact on people here so don´t loose the faith mate. Patronising the new Chairman is, i think, not the right way to go. Up the Palace!

[James]

Thank you for the kind words. I expected a more hostile respose - especially in view of my reference to Ron Noades!

Since writing the open letter, I have been reminded of something else which I should perhaps mentioned inthat letter. Our feeble Administrator, Simon Paterson, was unwilling to talk to Simon Jordan (maintaining that he would only deal with Jerry Lim), and with time running out and it becoming increasingly obvious to everyone except Paterson that Lim was not able or willing to proceed, it seemed that Jordan would have no time to complete his due diligence.

However, at the final Creditors' meeting, it was the Trust who backed Paterson into a corner, and forced him (and his Partner) to agree that Jordan could have access to the Club's books.

The Trust's representatives were unpaid, and expected no reward for their efforts. I don't really expect Jordan to say that he could not have engineered the take-over without the help of the Trust, but he must surely admit that the Trust oiled the wheels for him ... and the Trsut did it for the good of the Club.

Simon - in all the circumstances, is it really fair, or indeed sensible, for you to turn your back on the Trust?

[paf]

I think James letter was excellent, a reasoned and calm response to our current predicament and some sound common sense advice, which may be all that is needed to turn things around. Lets hope it doesnt fall on deaf ears.

Alan Smith is a really nice bloke, but a football club is like a lady, and they all love a b@stard.

[This message has been edited by paf (edited 26 October 2000).]

[arussell]

Originally posted by Al from Bromley:
...thing is though Brett, some might say that Jordan himself is patronising and offensive?


Having met Jordan briefly - I would agree with you Al.

Nicely written James - I hope it gets across a few of the "home truths" to our chairman, and we KNOW you lurk here reading Mr Jordans so feel free to reply by all means.

[Gizmo]

It`s becoming clear to me that now he has got what he wanted namely the club ,and whatever occured for him to get it(the help of the trust etc) he will simply brush them all aside without conscience thought and care. If this is the way he carries on which it seems to be is,then what more can one say.

[Blind_Eagle]

Originally posted by James:

Just in case there is any remaining doubt, my message to Jordan was intended to be patronising.



Why?

[Sandy of Cornwall]

James, I tried tact and it didn't work.

Why should he read your letter? If I were he, I would think what a cheek, what's it got to do with him?

Jordan has had 3 months (I think) at the helm. What do you expect in 3 months? Blimey most solicitors can't even exchange contracts on a simple sale and purchase of freeholds in 3 months let alone turn around the fortunes of an ailing London football club.

OK, we've gathered no-one likes Jordan personally. He may be rude, arrogant, and many other things but so what! If he achieves what he hopes, it doesn't matter how many toes he treads on to get to his (and our) ultimate goal - success.

He is not asking to be Mr Popular - he is asking for success at any price. OK surely 6 months ago we would have all grasped that with outstretched arms. BUT oh no, now we're moaning about his tactics in getting it.

I mean Ron was never a nice, pleasant man was he - but he got us brief success. What is so different about Jordan? I'll tell you - he's young (Ron was and is old), rich, successful and big-headed - all the things us English love to hate.

Are we so impatient that we expect a complete turn-about in 3 months? James I did not expect this of you. Can you, hand on heart, really say you expected some sort of miracle so soon after the purchase of the club? What did you expect of him? Why is it OK for Ron Noades to be beastly to staff but not Jordan? I can guarantee Ron and his brother, Colin, were equally hateful to the staff but you never felt it necessary to write to Ron in these terms. Why Jordan?

And what did you really expect Jordan to have done about the ground situation in so short a time? As said above, a normal house purchase takes a lot longer, let alone something as complex as the Selhurst situation.

If I were Jordan, I wouldn't even reply. Your letter would go straight in the bin.

[Neil the Eagle]

Originally posted by Sandy of Cornwall:


If I were Jordan, I wouldn't even reply. Your letter would go straight in the bin.

No bloody change there then, I've written to him twice and telephoned that direct line of his - nothing.

Just to be clear, my first letter wasn't a complaint either.

Correspondents to Palace Echo tell of similar treatment.

[Gooders]

Originally posted by Viking:
He´s achived more than you and me ever will.

Why is it that those who defend him always go back to his so-called "achievements"? He made a lot of money. So ****in' what? Who the hell cares?

When you grow up you will learn that there is a lot more to life than money and status. You will also learn that there are people out there (rare breeds, admittedly) who have made huge amounts of wedge who still have some decent values.

The thing about following Palace that I think most of us have always been able to hold on to is the special connection or bond between the fans and the players. It's nearly always been there to a greater or lesser degree during my thirty years supporting the club.

In a few short months, it has been absolutely ripped to ****in' shreds.

The first, the biggest, maybe even the only mistake that Simon Jordan has made was in appointing Alan Smith to the managers job. Talk about the "sacking" of Coppell all you like; isn't it obvious by now that he left of his own volition? - an honourable man like him was never going to be able to work with a jumped-up, self-made, ignorant and uncouth boss. Very few people could.

Speaking personally, there is a huge rift between myself and the club at the moment and I seriously doubt that it will be mended any time soon, if ever. I thought very hard about cancelling my season tickets when Stevie left but decided to give people a chance.

The way things are going, I think that three half finished tickets will soon be winging their way to Mr Jordan in the post - there's absolutely no chance that he'll read the accompanying letter (he can't even reply to people that he's promised he will) but I can't end my relationship with the club without giving vent to my feelings.

The club is dying on it's feet and it's very, very sad.

[This message has been edited by Gooders (edited 27 October 2000).]

[ruediger]

Originally posted by Gooders:
I thought very hard about cancelling my season tickets when Stevie left but decided to give people a chance.

The way things are going, I think that three half finished tickets will soon be winging their way to Mr Jordan in the post - there's absolutely no chance that he'll read the accompanying letter (he can't even reply to people that he's promised he will) but I can't end my relationship with the club without giving vent to my feelings.

Have to agree with nearly everything you've said. But if makes no sense to turn away.
Please keep your season ticket.
Instead make yourself heard (on the BBS, in the stand, in fanzines, on the radio etc).

Players come and go, managers too, even a chairman is to depart one day.
It's the supporters that make Crystal Palace FC.

[Blind_Eagle]

Originally posted by Gooders:
The club is dying on it's feet and it's very, very sad.



I'm sorry Gooders but that is complete bollox.

period.

[Viking]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gooders:
[B] Why is it that those who defend him always go back to his so-called "achievements"? He made a lot of money. So ****in' what? Who the hell cares?

When you grow up you will learn that there is a lot more to life than money and status. You will also learn that there are people out there (rare breeds, admittedly) who have made huge amounts of wedge who still have some decent values.(end Quote)

Hello Gooders. You´re in a bad mood and i can´t blame you but...
...1: I care.
2: Flower Power is dead and...
3: this is pretentious drivel. Sorry mate, but money and status does count quite high in our society.

[Gooders]

Blind Eagle - you are entitled to your opinion. I hope you are right. We'll see.

Viking - you don't know me and I don't know you. If you did, you would know that the one thing I am not, in any way, shape or form, is pretentious. You could, however, apply that adjective to Simon Jordan and Alan Smith quite easily. And you can add "delusional" if they seriously expect us to believe that things are better now than they were last season.

Flower power is alive and well and living in Berkshire by the way.

I would hazard a guess that you're a lot younger than me. Take it from me, as you get older and wiser, money matters less and less to most people - there are far more important things in life.

For the record, I admire generosity of spirit, artistic talent, skilful footballers, good music and writing ability.

I do not admire rich louts who don't know how to treat people properly and managers who blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings.

[Richard]

Originally posted by Gooders:


For the record, I admire generosity of spirit, artistic talent, skilful footballers, good music and writing ability.



Could I add beautiful women and loyal long-suffering Palace fans to that list (not necessarily mutually exclusive). Oh, and good beer and fine wine.

[Chobham Eagle]

Thank you Gooders for the views you express above as they fit my own perfectly. With Jordan as Chairman, Smith as Manager, Ruddock as Captain and a bunch of wasters out on the pitch (with a few honourable exceptions) how are we supposed to get behind the club? I can't believe I'm saying this but I seriously question whether I will be at the next home game. If I'm not it will be the first home match I have voluntarily missed in 35 years. Very sad.

[Viking]

Gooders, you´re well-spoken and, of course, dead right. The sad thing is that 9 out of 10 don´t(i´m looking forward to it though) understand that. Beeing called pretentious can be irritating so i take it back mate. I honestly respect your oppinion.

[Gooders]

Not a problem Viking.

I guess we're all feeling a bit better today after a good result and what sounds like just the sort of battling performance we've all been hoping for.

Let's hope that we can beat Wednesday next week - that's a real six-pointer, if ever there was one.

[Mat ov CPFC]

Gooders, its nice to see that there are still some nice, genuine, caring, thougtful individuals out there.

Just promise me though that if you win a massive amount of money on the lottery that you dont buy and run CPFC.

Our clubs needs a right ******* at the helm. Name me one nice guy in football that has won anything ? Sure we finished in the top three under Coppell but if I remember rightly we were slagged off the whole way for being a dirty team. Its only in Hollywood films that the good guys win.

Gooders, I have not met you but I must say that you come accross as a genuinly nice guy which I admire but please try and remember that 99% of us just want victory for CPFC, at almost ANY price.

[John 24]

Originally posted by ruediger:
Players come and go, managers too, even a chairman is to depart one day.
It's the supporters that make Crystal Palace FC.


Profound and excellent ruediger. Please, all of you that are disheartened at the moment (of which their will be many) don't give it up. Keep going and supporting the club we all love. Just try and console yourself with the fact that we're all going through it with you. So Gooders, and any others who are considering walking away, please don't.

I've just read this thread and indeed James letter. One of the most annoying things about being a fan of a football club is that 'not knowing feeling'. None of us (bar maybe a privileged few) really know what goes on behind the scenes. We all talk and discuss various rumours and we get the odd bit of info from various members 'insiders' but we never get the full story. I suppose this is why we've been spending our recent days discussing who's to blame; the players or Smith.

James made it quite clear in his letter how he feels about Jordan. My feelings are that Jordan is indeed (as many have suggested) an arrogant man who mistreats people. But whatever his undesirable characteristics as a person are, I think he could be successful at Palace, but only time will tell. Many of the Jordan critics seem to want to jump in early before he's had a chance to really do anything. Maybe this is because of the Goldberg era, people don't want to leave it too late this time. But let’s at least give him a chance.

My worry is that he doesn't know the business very well (and as James highlighted has refused help from people like Noades, who know about being a successful chairman). He also refuses to have any supporter involvement on the board which gives us little say in matters and makes me a tad nervous. Finally, many of you have suggested that he doesn't like listening to others. When you run a football club that is one thing you HAVE to be able to do and I sincerely hope that he starts to pay attention to the fans. It can go two ways; he’ll either succeed alone, or, like Goldberg, he’ll fail alone, but one things for certain……..it will be alone.


[This message has been edited by John 24 (edited 29 October 2000).]

[Jonboy]

Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC:
Name me one nice guy in football that has won anything ?

Bobby Robson?

[Gooders]

Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC:

Gooders, I have not met you but I must say that you come accross as a genuinely nice guy which I admire but please try and remember that 99% of us just want victory for CPFC, at almost ANY price.

I understand that Matov. I'm afraid I'm one of those soft lads though who would hate to see Palace winning stuff whilst the whole nation loathed us with a passion.

I was thinking about this last night - why do we all hate Moan United? Well, speaking personally, I don't. I think that their players are mostly a credit to the game and their club. What I hate is their arrogant supporters who have forgotten that they themselves went through a very lengthy period of being under-achievers. I'm not saying that they haven't earned the right to enjoy themselves but if I was them, I would be highlighting their obvious strengths rather than continually dwelling on the weaknesses of others.

The other thing that makes so many people hate Moan United is, of course, Alex Ferguson - that well-balanced chap with a chip on both shoulders. Even he seems to be mellowing a bit in his old age.

It was the same when Liverpool dominated - I had very little against their players (apart from Emlyn Hughes and Tommy Smith) but couldn't abide their fans. Their managers were all decent men, by the way, and they won everything going. So nice guys can and do win you know.

As fans, I think we fool ourselves quite often into believing that the players care as much for the club as we do. Obviously this is not the case but it only takes a bit of passion in each performance and the odd badge-kissing incident to continue the illusion. It's all I ask of Palace and this season we haven't been getting it - hence the shattered illusions so many of us are feeling right now.

I have nothing against Simon Jordan (I'm sure he'll be so relieved to hear this) and I have admiration for anyone who can make something of himself like he has. I realise that he'll have had to have been a hard-nosed ******* to do what he's done. If he can live with that, that's fine. I couldn't.

And now that he's made his wedge, he's in a position to be magnanimous and to chill a little. Having a lot of money doesn't give people the right to treat other people like ****. I could never admire anybody who did that.

If I did win the lottery, by the way, I wouldn't buy Palace so don't worry. http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

I believe that the appointment of Alan Smith was misguided in the extreme. I have said so many times. Yesterday's was a great result and nothing would give me greater pleasure than for it to be the start of a turnaround in our fortunes.

I'm still deeply worried, however, that we are heading for relegation this season, which would be disastrous. With all the greed that is in the game these days, it is essential that Palace do not slip out of the top two divisions because I think that will be the end of them as any kind of force in English football.

All I ask as a fan is that the team make every effort to secure results each week. That's all. I don't expect us to thrash people frequently or to dominate the division, just for us to do our best and try.

We haven't been doing that this season.

Next Saturday will be the real test as to whether or not we are going to turn this season around and I will be there cheering them on, as usual. But they'd better not take it for granted.

[This message has been edited by Gooders (edited 29 October 2000).]

[Eagle of the East]

Originally posted by James:

Let's face it, you are now in a real mess.

What rubbish.

How can you say that now after the situation we were all in last year?

Have you a short memory?

As for the rest of the letter, there were some good points in it (especially the bit about appointing a representative from the Trust)

But things arent really that bad, a few wins on the pitch and everything will be rosy again!



------------------
Theres Only One Dougie Freedman!

[Ian of Chatham]

Originally posted by Gooders:

I'm still deeply worried, however, that we are heading for relegation this season, which would be disastrous. With all the greed that is in the game these days, it is essential that Palace do not slip out of the top two divisions because I think that will be the end of them as any kind of force in English football.
I agree with those comments as probably most people will. You only have to look at what's happening to Luton, Oldham, Swindon and Port Vale at the moment to find out what could happen to us.Walsall are bucking the trend at the moment goodness knows how they do it. I can't see us bouncing back straight away if we go down. The best we can hope for is to stay there a few seasons and eventually re-build our squad and eventually make a challenge for promotion like Millwall (yuk!) are at the moment.


[This message has been edited by Ian of Chatham (edited 29 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ian of Chatham (edited 29 October 2000).]

[James]

Just for the Hell of it, I thought I would dedge up this tired old thread.

If I was writing my 'Open letter' again today, I don't think I would change a word of it. How many of you who replied may now be having second thoughts?

[Al From Bromley]

Similarly, what I wrote in response to your posting still holds true as far as I am concerned. You can't run a football club full of "yes" men and have any degree of success.

[Justin]

James, your rather pathetic attempts to massage your already inflated ego amaze me. When you wrote your very profound, humbling open letter you were certainly not the only one questioning Smith's appointment. You still aren't. However 90% of your letter was not about Smith but rather Jordan, his manner and how the Godlike Noades could help him. It still is as irrelevant as it was in October.

[Al From Bromley]

Should we put ourselves in your fist Justin? Alle is claar. Alle is claar.

[James]

Justin is unimpressed...

It [ie my 'Open Letter'] still is as irrelevant as it was in October....

I would certainly agree that my letter has the same relevance now as it did in October.

[Nobby]

Bloody hell. I read the first three pages of this thread without realising it was an old one!
This means:
(a) Things are no different from last October, including Jordan doing the Fans Forum the following Monday when the heat is on.
(b) I'm getting prematurely senile
(c) I still think James is patronising http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif
(d) I'm still very angry about Jordan's lying to and betrayal of the Trust.

[Al From Bromley]

Face it Jim, Jordan is one of those people who can't stand to have anyone around him who dares to question his decisions or play wirth his toys. I bet he used to take his ball/stumps home from the park if he got beaten as a lad. Never too late to change Simon. Mummy's gone....beat up on your mom. It's Ok to cry, its OK to lose. But sh*t, if we lose much more, we WILL go down.

[Les Butler]

As were into repeats........
http://homepages.cpfc.org/LesButler/babyjordan.jpg

[James]

Another effort to massage my 'over-inflated ego' (cf Justin above) and to irritate 'my best mate' Simon Jordan.

[jlmatthews]

James - you brought a tear to my eye http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Passport]

James,

You seem to have 2 main criticisms of Jordan. Namely, his backtracking on allowing a Trust rep on the board, and his appointment and subsequent refusal to sack Smith.

On the former, well quite clearly this is a clanger of great proportions. On the latter, well it was clearly the mistake of an unexperienced chairman and it is probably too late to do anything about it now (this season anyway).

Other than these 2, I don't see that he has done a lot wrong. Things are improving off the field and once we have a decent manager in charge I'm sure things will improve on it.

I feel it is totally pointless having a go at him on the basis of having a big ego, attitude, being arrogant etc. Name me a football chairman that isn't. Once things start improving on the pitch (and let's face it, it was always going to be a long haul), Jordan's personal falibilities will be forgotten.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Passport on 15 April 2001 at 10:21</font>

[ruediger]

As I've said before:

Players come and go, managers too, even a chairman is to depart one day. It's the supporters that make Crystal Palace FC.

There's life after May 10.

[My old man said :]

Need to look at the bigger picture

[Chobham Eagle]

Originally posted by Passport:
I feel it is totally pointless having a go at him on the basis of having a big ego, attitude, being arrogant etc. Name me a football chairman that isn't. Once things start improving on the pitch (and let's face it, it was always going to be a long haul), Jordan's personal falibilities will be forgotten.

Peter Risedale and David Sheepshanks to name but two. And what about Arthur Wait?

[Viking]

Originally posted by ruediger:
Players come and go, managers too, even a chairman is to depart one day. It's the supporters that make Crystal Palace FC.

There's life after May 10.

Yes there is, and i will alwayes be Palaces´loyal guardian of the north regardless division. It´s never boring beeing a Palace supporter. UP the PALACE!!!

[James]

I know that digging up this old thread (again) will irritate many of you - so semi-sincere apologies to them. Also - sorry if anyone read through the thread thinking it was new ... I hope the references to our manager Alan Smith on page 1 might have provided a clue that this was a resurrected effort.

However, I wonder if a few more of you might agree with what I said in my initial post (in a very patronising manner I admit)?

I expect that few Palace fans would agree with me that keeping Noades involved would have been a good idea. However, I strongly feel that some of the problems that are now manifesting themselves would have been avoided had Jordan kept to his original promise to invite a Supporters' Trust Representative to the Board.

Who knows, perhaps even Jordan himself might admit that there was some truth in my criticism.

[Officer Dibble]

Groundhog Day :rolleyes:

[jone-zee]

James surely the state that Brentford are in the pooh and the fact that Altonwood aquired another Association Football ground might be a clue to The Noades Project? By the way I cant believe the news that Alan Smith was sacked just because we lost to Watford.;)

[NewRoadBee]

Originally posted by jone-zee
James surely the state that Brentford are in the pooh and the fact that Altonwood aquired another Association Football ground might be a clue to The Noades Project?

I`d swap Jordan for Noades any day of the week :rolleyes:

[lees eagles]

I can't believe that certain people feel they are that important that they can tell a very successful and intelliigent bussinessman how he should operate his affairs, remember he is not only the Chairman but the owner of the club.

It simply portrays an underlying amount of envy on the part of those who feel the need to belittle Simon Jordan, every time they seemingly post on the boards. THIS MAN SAVED OUR CLUB FROM EXTINCTION AND THAT SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN!!!!! Yes he has made mistakes but he has put his money where his mouth is, surely he cannot do more than this.

As for the Trust it would be interesting to see some facts from, certain members, as to whether Jordan ever said that someone from the trust was actually to be offered a position on the board if he became Chairman. As with so many post from certain members their so called "sources" lack the one thing we need - PROOF!

People seem to jump on the bandwagon and believe these people, about such issues, for example, as the state of club finances, we have heard nothing about this from Jordan, but most seem to want to believe it on from someone on a Crystal Palace supporters website, where are the Facts, that is all I ask!

I love this club with a passion, and it makes me sick to think people who are so called, "fans", seem to take great delight in making a mockery out of everything at the club. These people need to stop ATTENTION SEEKING and look on the positive, rather than the negative!!!! As I have already said Simon Jordan owns the club so if anyone feels that they can do the job better why don't they send him a long letter with the details of their offer, then they can take over the very simple task of the day to day running of a football club then check the BBS because if they are doing anything wrong there will be someone with a source to put them right.

[James]

Originally posted by lees eagles
I can't believe that certain people feel they are that important that they can tell a very successful and intelliigent bussinessman how he should operate his affairs, remember he is not only the Chairman but the owner of the club.

Excellent. There are some of you left.

[hong_kong_hg]

Jeez Mitch there's plenty of us left.

I might just chop my avatar in half :D

[917L]

Originally posted by James


However, I strongly feel that some of the problems that are now manifesting themselves would have been avoided had Jordan kept to his original promise to invite a Supporters' Trust Representative to the Board.



Why James?

Even if a representative of the trust were on the board surely SJ would only have had them in an advisory capacity, the chances of them being able to have a major influence on decisions he makes would seem small.

[PeterH]

Originally posted by Officer Dibble
Groundhog Day :rolleyes:

Yeah Groundhog Day, two years hence. Situations change. I suppose we are getting significantly more for Clinton than we would if we woulod have had to sell during Administration.

More echos of the past we have another Glad All Over Do on Sunday, how frightening is that, we must be up the creek.

I am disappointed that SJ has renegaded on his word, poor business not to accept £5m if it was ever on the table, poor business not to take it all in cash and to be fobbed off with a player. Still the TV deal, or lack of it, the sell out by the league (possibly with some incentive), the need to secure the services of other players (current), and the sheer boredom of the Clinton situation, may have contributed.

Personally, I think its high time we saw or heard on ongoing business plan. I want £2m of this to go towards developing or buying a ground, imminently. Where is the ground, how are the talks progressing with Noades, prospective sponsors etc.. The Crystal Palace site was mentioned in depth on the London news the other night as woefully in need of refurbishment, the finger of blame was pointing rigidly in Bromley Councils direction. Simon Jordan get off your high horse and get stuck into the project rather than blaming everyone else.

Yes we obviously have problems, but they are not insummountable. And more crucially they are somewhat different to the ones mentioned two years ago. IMHO.

At least look at this from fresh approaches James if you are going to continue to attack the man.

['ere sid]

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Change the record Jim for gawds sake......

[winners]

So why would any member of the self appointed trust have any more experience in running a club, than Simon Jordan?

If i had invested so many million into a football club, you wouldnt find me taking a member of the trust onto the board, why would i want someone there, whose gonna question everything i do?

[GreatGonzo]

Originally posted by lees eagles
I can't believe that certain people feel they are that important that they can tell a very successful and intelliigent bussinessman how he should operate his affairs, remember he is not only the Chairman but the owner of the club.

What you will have to understand is that all the supporters ARE important, after all if we decided not to go then there would be no business for SJ!

And as for telling a 'very successful and intelligent businessman' how do you back this up?
He was 1 half of a successful partnership that pospered in a BOOM industry, just as Goldberg was before him

Now he has come into a business which is anything but BOOM at the moment. If you know anything about business you will know that the most important factor is public opinion and public perception. This BBS is probably the prime location for public opinion on CPFC and that is one of the reasons it is here and why SJ makes sure he is kept informed about what is being said.

I agree with James' original letter and with most things he says in general, too many people put SJ making millions seeling his business and Palace have millions together which is simply incorect. Most of the money he has put into CPFC after originally buying it apparently appears in the accounts as loans to the club. Also when a large company like Deutche Telecom buy a business they usually pay for a lot of it in shares that cannot be put on the market for 3-5 years. We are still within that period so there is value on paper only at this stage and then it only takes 1 look at the papers to see what has happened to that value since he was bought out.

[c_block_lad]

*YAWNS*, James is just jealous of what Simon Jordan has achieved in his life. What has James achieved in his life? All he does is come on here and start to slag off Jordan without even knowing the real facts. James people are starting to find out who you are, a sad pathetic man who is clearly jealous of Jordan.

[PeterH]

Agree with 'ere Sid.

Whatever SJ does re: Morrison he knows he has to justify it to the fans. Lets wait for the next forum. Or if you can't wait write to SJ directly, don't snipe from here.

[James]

Originally posted by c_block_lad
*YAWNS*, James is just jealous of what Simon Jordan has achieved in his life. What has James achieved in his life? All he does is come on here and start to slag off Jordan without even knowing the real facts. James people are starting to find out who you are, a sad pathetic man who is clearly jealous of Jordan.

My noteable achievements in full:

* 100 yards breast stroke certificate - Thornton Heath Baths (aged 11)
* Competitor Father's Race, Ewhurst Infants (July 2002) (finished second last)
* Er ...
* That's it.

[Northern Carl]

Originally posted by James

* Competitor Father's Race, Ewhurst Infants (July 2002) (finished second last)

Bl**dy hell, i'd like to meet the guy who came last !

[Pub Idol]

Originally posted by c_block_lad
*YAWNS*, James is just jealous of what Simon Jordan has achieved in his life. What has James achieved in his life? All he does is come on here and start to slag off Jordan without even knowing the real facts. James people are starting to find out who you are, a sad pathetic man who is clearly jealous of Jordan.

Its easy to call someone a sad pathetic man when hiding behind your computer... There is no point getting personal.

You dont have to agree with James posts , but respect the fact they are well written and IMHO very informative.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally posted by c_block_lad
*YAWNS*, James is just jealous of what Simon Jordan has achieved in his life. What has James achieved in his life? All he does is come on here and start to slag off Jordan without even knowing the real facts. James people are starting to find out who you are, a sad pathetic man who is clearly jealous of Jordan.

Yet another post where you seem desperate to prove your age to everybody!

Any idea what James' profession is? Hasn't achieved anything? Come back here when you reach James' age and if you have achieved more in life then i will be very suprised.

You seem desperate to defens and build up Jordan in every thread i read but have no evidence or support for any of your arguements. It goes to the point where you really could be Jordan in disguise.

Face the facts on the matter which are:

He saved the club
He has not run it particularly well since
No-one really knows how much money he has
Only he knows how much of that he is prepared to put into Palace

Or is there something else you know?

[sydnsteve]

SJ comes across as a rude, arrogant man who bullies his employees, and makes foolish remarks that often put him in a bad light. His remarks about the 'morons' who run the football league being a case in point. This kind of statement might get you headlines, but it does not get you influence with those who are running the League. James certainly does not come across as in any way jealous, but he clearly does not like Jordan, and is worried about the state of the club, as are we all. I do get the impresssion that this dislike colours his view of all Jordan's actions, so that conspiracies are seen everywhere. However, just because one is paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

[AJ1969]

Originally posted by GreatGonzo


What you will have to understand is that all the supporters ARE important, after all if we decided not to go then there would be no business for SJ!

Agreed and you're very right but the fact is no one will stop supporting Palace. The only thing which really seems to affect the attendance and sales volume is which division we are in. Consider the below:

- We are customers, not investors. What return do you get on the $$ you spend on the club?
- Investors have a say in the business, customers do not (in football)
- Customers are the single most important asset a business can have, investors are more important (in football)
- Football has an extremely bizarre customer base. It sticks to one brand, buys more and more, and keeps coming back.
- Why listen to a customer who keeps coming back no matter what? You don't need to! (in football)

The above significantly deviates from standard business practise in which the customer is embraced. Nevertheless I remain convinced that SJ is doing a reasonable job on the 'pure' business side. Where he's not getting it right is on the football side, which unfortunately is intrinsically linked to the business side. If you look at the most successful clubs they've got both sides of the equation correct e.g. Man U where the business is run like a dream and the football is successful too. Now obviously if one improves, then the other can too e.g. attracting more customers = more $$ = more spending power = better quality team = more success = more customers = more $$ etc etc.. Jordan is trying to do both but is getting to entangled in the football side of things. He should leave the footy to footy people and bring in a fresh perspective where required - this would do wonders methinks. We have to give the guy a chance though - how many great businesses have been built in 2 years? James' gripe with Jordan may come true over time but I would say that support is what the club needs, coupled with healthy positive input where possible - great support does wonders for the team which does wonders for the business. What won't work is every 'football chairman wannabee' telling SJ what to do with his $$.

[bert head is god]

As Palace fans, we all want the best for our club and we all beleive that we can do a better job than the present administration, (unless we are winning trophies, playing in Europe etc.)

The truth is that we were all but dead very recently and SJ was able to bail us out. In the face of the ITV debacle and other negative economic factors affecting league clubs, it is nigh on impossible to operate a profitable club outside of the premiership. As we look around, there are a lot of clubs in a distinctly worse situation than us.

I have never been a Noades fan, but even those who are would have to concede that some of the decision making during the early years of his stewardship was, at best, inept. He has been Chairman of three different clubs, all of which are presently experiencing different levels of financial hardship. Excuses can be made in all three cases, but the one common denomonator is R.G.Noades.

There is no question that SJ is both arrogant and self opinionated. It is also true that the old cliche "right place at the right time" could be applied to his mobile phone successes. In my opinion, two of his first three managerial appointments were a mistake. Even the third, Steve Bruce, was greeted with derision on these boards, but the abuse abated when we had such an encouraging start last season.

Clearly, when someone has made such a massive investment, they are not looking for the company to fail. His naivety in running a Football club is evident, but maybe it is just that and he will learn in time how to operate the business more effectively.

In terms of the present financial status of the club, none of us know the real facts. All Chairmen, except those of publicly traded companies, will try to keep such information under wraps to assist in negotiations. Can you imagine if he suddenly held a press conference and stated "I want to strengthen the squad and have 10 million to spend to do it". Any player we wanted would be immediately over-priced and their agent would have a field day when negotiating personal terms.

It may be that James and others are correct in their assessment of SJ, but right now he is the man in charge and the only way any of us can change that is for us to buy him out. Any offers?

My personal opinion is that we should give him the chance to learn from his mistakes and support him and the team through the upcoming season. I think that Francis is a tactically inept Muppet, but while he is in charge I will support the team and pray that I will be proved wrong.

There will undoubtedly be tough times ahead, but let's never forget where we were a few short years ago.

[sydnsteve]

Good post. I'll go along with that

[El Aguila]

:rolleyes:

[Ben H]

Dear Simon,

Please visit this thread:

http://forums.cpfc.org/showthread.php?threadid=41796

Now I bet you wished you'd adopted this strategy when you took over the club. It's still not too late however. Either change your business strategy or sell to the club back to Noades. You know it makes sense.

[James]

At least Jordan is no longer bragging to all and sundry about how he will achieve success with this Club quickly. As to whether he has learned any lessons (or whether he is capable of learning any lessons), that is another matter entirely.

[Ben H]

Yes, what a fool he's been. He still demanded at the start of the season that Kember got us automatically promoted, again falsely raising supporters' hopes.

[Ben H]

Originally posted by James


Ron tells me that when he first discussed your take-over (which he encouraged and supported) he offered to help you. In fact, you came close to agreeing an arrangement whereby Noades would manage the Club for you - at least for the first few years while you found your feet. You may know that Noades made the same offer to Mark Goldberg (another businessman who found success in one area, but who was unable to transfer that success to Palace.

It didn't surprise me that in the event you decided that you could do without Noades. Goldberg made the same decision, based upon his misplaced arrogance. It won't surprise you to hear that Ron Noades forecast that you would soon be in the mess which you now find yourself.


You overlooked that fact that Jordan kept on Phil Alexander and Peter Morley. Hasn't done him much good has it.

[PalaceFan in Alabama]

Originally posted by Ben H
Dear Simon,

Please visit this thread:

http://forums.cpfc.org/showthread.php?threadid=41796

Now I bet you wished you'd adopted this strategy when you took over the club. It's still not too late however. Either change your business strategy or sell to the club back to Noades. You know it makes sense.

Go wash your mouth out :clown:
I would rather the club fold that let that person get it back in his hands. Mind you what will be in it for him, he already owns the ground (sorry James one of his companies does), so what will he get out of the deal?
I had lunch a few weeks ago with a Chairman of a football club who is willing to give his club to a group for nothing, Something Ron would do :hmph:, he had already left the cupboard bare when he sold it

[Neil the Eagle]

Are you talking about Sir Jack Haywood, Phil? If so, that's not exactly how his act of charity is being reported here.

[PalaceFan in Alabama]

Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
Are you talking about Sir Jack Haywood, Phil? If so, that's not exactly how his act of charity is being reported here.

Can't answer for the local media, can only state what I was told, he will not except money for the club, but expects the group or groups to continue on "his good work".