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Nelson Muntz
15-05-2005, 08:44 PM
Dowie:
Well everybody still seems to love Iain Dowie despite or relegation today, but what has he really achieved in the past 18 months?
He took an average team out of the bottom half of Division One and got us promoted via the play-offs, in my opinion using a lifetimes worth of luck in the closing weeks. Lucky rebound from a penalty .v. Walsall, losing at Highfield Road only to be saved by another team scoring, winning a penalty shoot out in the semi which could have gone either way and finally being triumphant at Cardiff in a dour game against a piss poor West Ham side (but thats forgotten because we won).
Since then the squad has been strenghtened. We have International players that don't get a game, we play a 5'8" forward alone and play hoofball to him most of the season (to his credit the small bloke has done really well considering). We have seen strange team selections and substituations (including today), we have not attacked teams when we have needed a goal, the 4-5-1 system hasn't been changed quickly enough when we have been chasing the game. We have seen Mr Routledge play every game despite him flattering to decieve in every match, instead of the international players who were bought in to strengthen the squad and have given a better return. We have recently seen Leigertwood getting into the side before Aki Riihilahti who was our second highest scorer this season. We have seen far too much of Dougie Freedman (despite today) and not enough of Sandor Torghelle. I could go on about Hall's passing, Popo's hoofs, etc, etc.
After (almost) every game that we lost this season Iain Dowie has came on the TV and said 'We'll learn from this defeat' ' We'll take the positives from this' What exactly did you learn Iain? We never learned to win games against poor opponents (Norwich & Saints recently), we never learned how to defend our own goal for a full 90 minutes. We never learned that picking your favourite players gets results.
Today Iain Dowie is the manager of an (old) division one club. Which is where we were when he took over about 18 months ago. The squad on paper are stronger, but does Dowie have the knowledge, experence or skill to take Palace back into the Premier Division in 12 months time? I seriously doubt it. He has been naive in so many ways this season. I think that Iain Dowie is not the saviour of Crystal Palace FC that many of you seem to think. He could well be just another manager that spends time at the club and moves along to less glamourous things in the future.
Before you slag me off, tell me. What tactical strenghts does Dowie have? In what ways does Dowie make you think he is a winner? Do you honestly, in your heart, believe that Dowie is a good manager?

Harbin:
What does he do? He takes the players out onto the pitch before games to warm them up, he seems to be the one who comes up with these 'One more round' poems, but other than that. What does he contribute to the squad?
Is he the fitness coach? If he is than may I be so bold to suggest that he isn't a very good one? Palace have conceded 25% of goals in the last 15 minutes of games. That doesn't strike me as being fit. Is it his job to get the players mentally ready? If it is, may I suggest that he's not very good at this either as the players always seem to lose concentration and focus towards the end of games.
Again, before you slag me. What do you think Harbin contributes to the team? Do you think he's a good fitness coach?

I await to be shot down, but my arguement is a good one.

Sussex Eagle
15-05-2005, 08:46 PM
Bang bang bang. Pobody's nerfect, including those two, but you can feck off with that kind of talk. I'm wagging my finger as I type.

lordanton
15-05-2005, 08:48 PM
You have a fair point. But...we have been written off for everything all of the way. How come we acheived so much when we weren't supposed too?

Also, you must look at what the players say. ID and JH have been more than inspiration for them.

KungFuCharlie
15-05-2005, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
Bang bang bang. Pobody's nerfect, including those two, but you can feck off with that kind of talk. I'm wagging my finger as I type.

Me too

Ardent Eagle Forever
15-05-2005, 08:48 PM
Here's one for you daughter Nelson,

have you noticed how many times we've conceded goals when Aki has been substitued????

Ardent Eagle Forever
15-05-2005, 08:48 PM
I bet she knows how many. All I know is that it is a lot!!!

eagles #1
15-05-2005, 08:51 PM
Sack em all. thats what i say! :rolleyes:

Velocity
15-05-2005, 08:52 PM
Quality thread.

I Don't agree about Popovic's distribution, which I think on the whole is top notch.

And I don't agree about Harbin, but the rest of the points you raised were great observations.

Chris Finch
15-05-2005, 08:55 PM
They got the players fitter, which in effect keep us in the relegation battle all the way through until today. Based on our skill we would have been out of it and relegated a long long time ago.
Iain brought us team spirit and belief 80% of contact sport is in the mind.

daveweller
15-05-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz

I await to be shot down, but my arguement is a good one.

Quite possibly and I can understand the upset, but is now the time? Its all very well slagging, but in theabsence of better alternatives......

I recall I time when Aki was slagged, but yet he overcame the doubters and made the team. Perhaps we should have got someone better and sent him of to 'wall?

furzy85
15-05-2005, 08:56 PM
18 months ago we were 2nd bottom in Division 1. Then Dowie took over. Says it all for me.

Of couse he lacks experience being in charge at this level. But he has to start somewhere, he's only young.
Id rather Dowie in charge than someone like Steve Wigley or Trevor Francis, cos thats the best were gonna get if he goes.

As for Harbin, he's not a football man, he came from a rugby league background, and yes he is a fitness coach. Palace were one of the fittest teams in the league, we lacked concentration not the ability to tirelessly run for 90 minutes (something we did in every game)

gcwhite
15-05-2005, 08:56 PM
So the knives are out. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

PoolKing
15-05-2005, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by lordanton

Also, you must look at what the players say. ID and JH have been more than inspiration for them.

They are hardly going to turn around publicly and say that ID makes some poor decisions:D

limited_edition
15-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Dowie's got a lot to prove next season. But I think he can get us up as the Championship doesn't have the tactical demands of the Premiership. Let's face it, Dowie struggles when it comes to tactical decisions in key matches in the top flight. Even if we had signed Cahill or Ashton, that wouldn't be a guarantee that Dowie would have played them. But when all is said and done, Dowie is a young manager, not the finished article. I really hope he learns from his mistakes when he takes us up in a year's time.

BW_Palace
15-05-2005, 09:03 PM
I agree with the general jist of your points, but I still think he's a great manager. I think all of us would agree that tactically, he's been pretty poor this season etc.

Velocity
15-05-2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by PoolKing
They are hardly going to turn around publicly and say that ID makes some poor decisions:D

some of them already have.

Who Cares?
15-05-2005, 09:04 PM
I will be honest and say I have not read the opening post on this thread all the way through because it seemed to be heading in a negative direction and I do not think that is helpful at the present time. So what I am about to say might or might not have been included.

I think "Team Dowie" have done wonders in the 18 months at the club, firstly getting out of the 1st Division and nearly keeping the club in the Premiership with basically the same group of players. My concern is that the "magic" might now have worn off. All the motivational stuff which has served us so well - fight one more round; sometimes beaten, never conquered etc - is great when things are going well BUT will they have the same affect in the future after they have ultimately failed to keep us up?

EagleSE24
15-05-2005, 09:11 PM
Have you already forgotten last season? He took over a squad that were in danger of being relegated and got them promoted. He had the same group of players and he took them up! That in my book is a great manager.
He has turned AJ into one of the best strikers in the country. He has given Soares and Watson a chance and they have proved to be brilliant prospects. He has reinvented Hughes' game.
When you look at our squad objectively, it is quite probably the weakest in the prem. It is young and pretty inexperienced. That we went to the last day and only just missed out on staying up is testament to Dowie's ability.
He also has the total respect of the players. They fight for everything and where we •••• up, it can't be blamed solely on ID an JH. The players have played above themselves for much of the season and Dowie is the reason for this.
I have every faith in Dowie and more importantly, so do the players. AJ only signed a 5 yr deal when he heard ID was staying. He will take us back to the Premiership and he will only get better.
I would not want anyone else in charge and think Dowie has done a fantastic job with limited resources.

PoolKing
15-05-2005, 09:40 PM
All this talk of 'Bouncebackability'! We were mainly the victims of this Dowie Copyrighted term. For a team that prides itself on battling qualities we gave up numerous points this season. Everton - we lost 3 points after being in front, Norwich - 2 points lost, Southampton - 2 points lost, Liverpool - 1 point lost are the obvious examples that spring to mind.

I hope Dowie stays as manager but it disturbs me that he is very stubborn and doesn't seem to learn from errors. He also places a lot of emphasis on the 'mental' side of the game yet this is the area that has appeared to let down the team in a lot of games.

PoolKing
15-05-2005, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by EagleSE24
He has given Soares and Watson a chance and they have proved to be brilliant prospects.

I agree that they are great prospects but by playing such inexperienced players, particularly Soares, it may have cost us Premiership survival.

rambo
15-05-2005, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by PoolKing
They are hardly going to turn around publicly and say that ID makes some poor decisions:D

Several of them - including experienced pros like Hughes who tell it like it is - have heaped praise on him. AJ didnt even sign his contract extension until Dowie's was sorted out.

There were plenty of team selections, and in particular substitutions (including today's) which may be hard to understand. But the basic fact is that we had the cheapest squad in the Prem, with virtually no Prem experience, and we failed to hang on by one point after having dragged ourselves up from near-relegation in half a season the year before. That is outstanding on anyone's scale.

Any `good luck' last year has been more than outweighed by `bad luck' this year. The best measurement of success is to ignore that and just look at where we were when he took over, where we are now, and how little (comparatively) we have spent in between. End of.

Disco
15-05-2005, 10:32 PM
Everyone said we went up too soon, we were told we were the worst team in Premier league history, but we were there fighting right up until the final whistle of the last game of the season. We came up short, but not by very much! Yeah they're Palace heroes!

limited_edition
15-05-2005, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by rambo
But the basic fact is that we had the cheapest squad in the Prem, with virtually no Prem experience, and we failed to hang on by one point after having dragged ourselves up from near-relegation in half a season the year before. That is outstanding on anyone's scale.

Any `good luck' last year has been more than outweighed by `bad luck' this year. The best measurement of success is to ignore that and just look at where we were when he took over, where we are now, and how little (comparatively) we have spent in between. End of.
Players with Champions' League experience were overlooked on key occasions (Kolkka and Ventola). As for the good/bad luck thing, to a certain extent, WBA made their own luck. They went 3 upfront (with proper strikers no less) looking for the win at one point today. We shoved a centre half upfront instead of Ventola at 2-2. Didn't work against Boro when Hall was pushed up and surprise, surprise, it didn't work today. But hey, that's the Premiership. Experienced teams won't get undone by makeshift strikers.

dodge_bond
15-05-2005, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
Bang bang bang. Pobody's nerfect, including those two, but you can feck off with that kind of talk. I'm wagging my finger as I type.
me too, i hope its just because he is upset !!! !!!

Dowie, Harbin, Kit, Jordan + all the lads are all heroes nothing can be taken from these guys

:lux: :lux: :lux: :lux:

brighton_eagle
15-05-2005, 11:50 PM
You make some fair points there Nelson. But I'll ask you a question.

Do you think this club is in a better position now than it was when Dowie took over?

I do. We may be back in the same division, but I believe we are stronger for the last season, and for Dowie's contribution.

Celestial Empire
16-05-2005, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by furzy85
As for Harbin, he's not a football man, he came from a rugby league background, and yes he is a fitness coach. Palace were one of the fittest teams in the league, we lacked concentration not the ability to tirelessly run for 90 minutes (something we did in every game)

Isn't rugby league an 80 minute game ? ;)

DeadPanX
16-05-2005, 12:34 AM
Nelson, sorry mate but thats a tad harsh. First of all Palace had 0 Premiership experience going into this season. Dowie admitted he was initially daunted by the challenge in front of him. Yes he has made mistakes the real question has he learnt from only time will tell.

Sorry mate but if we stayed up, you would of posted the exact opposite of what you wrote. It seems a tad harsh as it was so marginal success and failure today. Personally I want all of this positive thinking etc to continue, what I want developed is Dowie's tactical awareness. Knowing Dowie during the summer he'll sit down and watch every Premier league match we played and take in where we went wrong and where we went right.

Nelson, Dowie is tactically naive but it's not his fault. I truly believe he will get better and better. I mean look at Ferguson, took him years to get Man Utd successful and then it clicked (against us =( ). Think criticism is too harsh and raw at this point in time. At Christmas we will see how Dowie has faired and see then to 'judge' him.

Angry Eagle
16-05-2005, 04:50 AM
More of the same please Mr Dowie.

GAGGING FOR 05-06

Angry Eagle
16-05-2005, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
Isn't rugby league an 80 minute game ? ;)

Yes, but to be fair, they waste a lot less of the playing time rolling around the pitch in "agony" before getting up and running around again.
GAGGING FOR 05-06

Raoul Duke
16-05-2005, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by PoolKing
All this talk of 'Bouncebackability'! We were mainly the victims of this Dowie Copyrighted term. For a team that prides itself on battling qualities we gave up numerous points this season. Everton - we lost 3 points after being in front, Norwich - 2 points lost, Southampton - 2 points lost, Liverpool - 1 point lost are the obvious examples that spring to mind.



I completely agree although you need to include the two Charlton matches in that list. When the going gets tough too many times we were found lacking.

With WBA surviving with the lowest ever points tally proves that the Premier League was easier for the bottom teams than ever before and we still couldn't survive.

Pub Idol
16-05-2005, 07:10 AM
A laughable thread.
We were well short of the quality needed to stay up but we were only 8 minutes from staying up. Palace under Dowie have fought harder than any Palace team Ive seen. The man inspires me as does JH. They are both critical to the future of this club. Were all disapointed about yesterday but the negativety of this post appalls me.

Big Malcontent
16-05-2005, 07:35 AM
Nelson - in my head I agree with all that you've written.

In my heart, I think you're totally wrong.

And football, especially Palace, is all about heart, not head. That's how bouncebackability works. Bouncebackability defies the brain - it defies the laws of physics. Bouncebackability says that when a lead balloon drops into swamp it sinks, but we’ve seen how that lead balloon hits the swamp and comes back up. I can't explain it but I've seen it with my own eyes and so I have to believe it.

For that reason I have to condemn you to the outer darkness as a heretic.

GJN
16-05-2005, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by Pub Idol
A laughable thread.
We were well short of the quality needed to stay up but we were only 8 minutes from staying up. Palace under Dowie have fought harder than any Palace team Ive seen. The man inspires me as does JH. They are both critical to the future of this club. Were all disapointed about yesterday but the negativety of this post appalls me.

This post typifies my sentiments. Whilst Im absolutely gutted by yesterday, I now look forward to Soares and Leigertwood own championship matches in central midfield, seeing them improve to an extent where they are more prepared for the premiership the season after next. What is annoying to me isnt ID's mistakes (he was always going to make some), its more along the lines the the team will cake walk the championship. Apart from Norwich, who can honestly say that any other team can finish above us, assuming we keep the team together??

JJO
16-05-2005, 08:50 AM
I can understand Nelson's sentiments, but I disagree. Every manager has to pay their dues, and it has to be remembered that Dowie is still a very inexperienced manager. Everyone will make mistakes, but just look at what he did with a threadbare squad, almost no money and a mainly Championship level squad. And remember that if Palace had stayed up (which was pretty darn close), this thread might never have been opened.

Brought Palace as close to staying up as possible. I know its of little consolation as relegation did happen, but nonetheless quite an achievement. This remins me of the pattern along which WBA and Charlton have gone.

WBA were in the Prem 2002/03, kept building and didn't lose many players after relegation, got back up in a hurry, had more money to invest (1st Prem year money + parachute money + 2nd year Prem money) and stayed up. Very much like Charlton. Palace need to keep it smart, retain most of their core, not go overboard with the spending and they can follow a similar pattern.

Dowie inherited a decent div 1 side and performed a miracle in promotion, but even with 14 (?) new signings there was little in the way of top quality acquired. Mainly rotation players (Hudson, Lakis, Andrews, Boyce, Speroni), a few quality players (Sorondo, Hall) and very few guy with true ability to lead to or change games (Kolkka maybe, Gabor, Ventola (but the injuries...)).

A season in the Championship for the likes of Leigertwood, Torghelle, Hudson, even Soares, it should allow them a real chance to develop and shine. Boyce will improve and hopefully we can get a full season out of Butterfield as well. Just look at our defense, even without Sorondo and possibly Hall, is that not a very high quality Championship defense?

Then look at our strikers, even without AJ. The Championship is the type of setting where guys like Torghelle (big, strong, decent finish, mean streak) hit it big. It's a legue made for all the Torghelle's and Shipperley's out there. Freedman's still got the (championship) touch and even Andrews could make an impact there.

And don't forget that Speroni has a point to prove if Gabor leaves. An if Pyjama Man stays, well...

Palace's only clear weakness is the midfield, where we will no doubt see many departures and are in need of much reinforcement. But there will be quality available, bosman guys and young steals, don't worry.

Back to Dowie. He has a major point to prove not only tactically but also mentally. Can he find ways to motivate the team very quickly after this disappointment? I believe Dowie will be stonger next year because of his endless ambition and thirst for knowledge.

He has reacted slowly sometimes to weak spells but who doesn't? Tell me a manager this side of Mourinho who doesn't want to tinker constantly but rather be patient, who doesn't want to change things too suddenly. He succesfully went from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 and back again when we needed it and seldomly made costly selection mistakes. And he corrected another early flaw of his, to make (good and timely) substitutions, as the season progressed. The logic behind the Powell sub was odd, but understandable.

I believe ID has a stellar future as a manager, because at least to me he has shown the ability to motivate, to improve himself (on the following), change tactics when necessary, make good subs and help his players take it notch up. He's still learning and makes mitakes, but I don't believe those mistakes cost us the season.

Mr Clean
16-05-2005, 09:19 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with the thread and will not be truly happy until Jordan admits the error that was letting Trevor Francis slip from his grasp.

Its a tactician such as Francis that we desperately needed this season. I remember the cold dark nights at home to Crewe and Sheffield United when the team was so well organised and knew exactly how to avoid defeat at all costs.

Dowie and Harbin OUT !!!

:hi:

ps This was the closest smilie I could get to what I want to say.... but you know what I mean, yes?

SW11 Andy
16-05-2005, 09:29 AM
Cut the winging and moaning.

No point on crying over spilt milk !!!!!!!!

Dowie has performed miracles as well as making mistakes, if he learns from them and he;s with us next year, it could turn out to be a great 2005/06

Perhaps what he needs is a master tactician at no.2, NOT a motivator
Whilst Kit Symons appears to have done little wrong, would it not help ID to have an older wiser head to school him and help us.

SW11 Andy
16-05-2005, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Mr Clean


Its a tactician such as Francis that we desperately needed this season. I remember the cold dark nights at home to Crewe and Sheffield United when the team was so well organised and knew exactly how to avoid defeat at all costs.

Dowie and Harbin OUT !!!

:


Mr Clean you cannot be serious about Francis.
Good tactician, good eye for talent, but the man management skills of Atilla the Hun
The two together could be a good team but probably out of our pay scale and would they work well together

Scroatey
16-05-2005, 09:42 AM
Find me a manager and backroom team that could have done better than Iain Dowie in the last 12 months with the same set of players...

...for the reason why we don't have a squad of "better" players you have to look elsewhere!

Son of Ron
16-05-2005, 09:48 AM
jesus I can't believe this talk.

Last year, after the position he picked us up in if Dowie had made us safe mid table we'd have been happy, and this season if we'd have been fighting for a play off spot we'd have said it was reasonable progress. And when we went up most of us were thinking we'd be down again by Xmas, let alone taking it to the last knockings of the season.

The man took virtually the same side as was in the bottom three in Div 1 and losing to Wigan 5-0 18 months ago to within 8 minutes of survival in the Premier League.

Yes he made a few cock ups or errors of judgement along the way - but you tell me someone who doesn't in life ?

He is the best manager we've had in years, certainly as a motivator if not a tactician, he gave it a bloody good go but in the end we weren't quite good enough.

Its all part of the trials and tribulations of being a Palace fan - much more interesting than supporting the Clowns, Spurs or Villa - never a real chance of going down but never a real chance of winning anything either - just season after season of finishing a mediocre 10th.

SKATE
16-05-2005, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by SW11 Andy
Mr Clean you cannot be serious about Francis.
Good tactician, good eye for talent, but the man manaagement skills of Atilla the Hun
The two together could be a good team but probably out of our pay scale and would they work well together

I think he was joking!

SW11 Andy
16-05-2005, 09:56 AM
Son Of Ron...........you are speaking 100% common sense.

Here's to next years fun and tears !!!!

Newts G
16-05-2005, 10:07 AM
I think it is right that the question can actually be asked, I am baffled about Leigertwood being used in Midfield, especially with Aki on the bench, I think Mikele is a few notches below Aki and therefore that decision baffles me. The Darren Powell thing is also a little bit of a head scratcher when we have strikers raring to go on the bench.

I dont think it is all doom and gloom though. If Dowie was a master tactition now, along with his obvious motivational skills, he would not be at Palace next season. He is on his way to being a great manager, but you must remember he has gone from managing a second division team in Administration to a first division team and gaining promotion to become a Premiership team manager in 18 months. He is going to make a few choices that may leave us a little bit baffled at times, but his learning curve will be extremely steep.

Next season will make this club, of that I am sure. This is a minor disappointment but we will be back even stronger on all fronts, so lets not get to down, lets look forward to the likes of Leeds, Leicester, West Ham (they better not go up!), Norwich, Southampton, Millwall and of course Brighton next season and not dwell on the negatives.

Big Malcontent
16-05-2005, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by SKATE
I think he was joking!

I think Andy was as well. Please tell me that you were also joking?:D

Mr Clean
16-05-2005, 10:23 AM
I've being rumbled !!!!!

SW11 Andy
16-05-2005, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
I think Andy was as well. Please tell me that you were also joking?:D


Ok, maybe not Francis, but someone who is a master tactician !!!!

jazman
16-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
Bang bang bang. Pobody's nerfect, including those two, but you can feck off with that kind of talk. I'm wagging my finger as I type.

... I second, third and whatever else that SE. That kind of talk is not what is needed after yesterday!

Leap of faith
16-05-2005, 11:09 AM
It's all about opinions.
I didn't agree with a hell of a lot of Sir Stevie decisions, which at the time were nonsensical, but he remains the our most successful manager.
Nobody's perfect.....You're being over critical.

Clapham Grand
16-05-2005, 11:11 AM
Disappointed in you Nelson - that post wasn't altogether fair

michael
16-05-2005, 11:35 AM
You seem to have a lot to say and I think it is always easy to point a finger at people when things go wrong.
Bearing in mind the position we were in when Dowie took over last season - I have one question - what other manager could possibly have achieved what Dowie has done at Palace.
Its great having hindsight but who could have done a better job than Dowie?
Its no good crticising - anybody can do that - instead of us answering all your questions about Dowie, cast your mind back to last season - what other managers were available - what other quality managers are available today - who could we get to repalce Dowie - NOBODY
We should count ourselves lucky we have him as manager and lets hope he stays. Yes he has a lot to learn and I hope he continues to learn and improve at Palace.:p

JJO
16-05-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz


Harbin:
Is he the fitness coach? If he is than may I be so bold to suggest that he isn't a very good one? Palace have conceded 25% of goals in the last 15 minutes of games. That doesn't strike me as being fit. Is it his job to get the players mentally ready? If it is, may I suggest that he's not very good at this either as the players always seem to lose concentration and focus towards the end of games.
Again, before you slag me. What do you think Harbin contributes to the team? Do you think he's a good fitness coach?

I await to be shot down, but my arguement is a good one. [/B]

As an inhabitant of Finland, you should be well aware of the difference between mental and physical "fatigue" (if you follow Finnish national football or ice hockey). To me Palace's late failures seem much more like mental collapses than physical ones. The players rarely seemed physically tired, but that does not exclude mental lapses.

Sometimes winning is a huge mental hurdle to clear, and of course management has something to do with that. But even so, there is very little a manager can do to help the players mentally from the sidelines during the end of the game, it's something they have to do themselves.

And even if the late errors were down to physical fatigue, can you really be surprised? Palace were, for material reasons, forced to play a near identical squad week in week out for virtually the entire season. AJ, Hall, Granville, Kiraly, Boyce, Aki, Hughes, Wayne were all ever-present when healthy with Soares and Leggy also heavily burdened towards the end. Palace had a rather big squad but pretty void of Premiership talent on the bench. I don't care if you're the fitness god, it's still hard to keep everyone at 100% with such a heavy workload and virtually no usable rotation.

ammiller
16-05-2005, 01:52 PM
Muntzy,

There is so many things on your post I couldn't begin to tackle them.

If I have more time I might try.

But now I'm tired.

Very tired.

Angry Eagle
16-05-2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
Nelson - in my head I agree with all that you've written.

In my heart, I think you're totally wrong.

And football, especially Palace, is all about heart, not head. That's how bouncebackability works. Bouncebackability defies the brain - it defies the laws of physics. Bouncebackability says that when a lead balloon drops into swamp it sinks, but we’ve seen how that lead balloon hits the swamp and comes back up. I can't explain it but I've seen it with my own eyes and so I have to believe it.

For that reason I have to condemn you to the outer darkness as a heretic.
Oh Lordy! Yes, I too have witnessed with my eyes the miracle of Bouncebackability and I too BELIEVE!

PS can I just comment that this thread seems to have brought out some well written posts (some may be bollox, but they sure sound right pretty).:lux:

Malakite
16-05-2005, 03:06 PM
I agree with a lot of what Mr Muntz has said. Aki should never have lost his place to Watson who despite having a reasonable game, has NO experience of the 'big games'. We HAVE played poor AJ on his own up front too often, the poor guy has to flick it on for HIMSELF! Why was Ships or Sandor not used more to flick the ball on for him? Why have we waiting till it is far too late to change things around? WHY leave Ventola on the bench yesterday especially after what he did last week?

Are Dowie and Harbin Legends nonetheless? YES THEY ARE! At the end of the day they took a bunch of players who for YEARS we had been saying how good they all were yet no manager/coaching staff could get the best out of them, making us all resign to the fact that perhaps they were not that good at kicking the ball around after all….then the Messiah comes along with Harbin in tow and they transform the squad completely, fitness, tactics AND of course their fantastic mental motivational techniques transforms us from cannon fodder into promotion candidates…they should both be applauded…


HOWEVER……..

Has Dowie made some strange tactical decisions? YES HE HAS
Has Dowie made some stupid substitutions? YES HE HAS

BUT what I will say, is that he is a young up and coming manager and a great on at that. Like the guy said after the game yesterday, he looks at himself and not the players (I don’t think that’s fair you have to look at EVERYONE in my opinion) and said he will work towards next season. The big thing for me is that Dowie STICKS with the club. He could jump ship, personally I don’t think that he will. If he went to another ‘bigger’ club and had the same problems, the chairman may not be as patient as ours. Jordon will NEVER question Dowie because he knows he is 100% committed and will always fight for what he thinks is right in taking this club forward, and at the same time hold his hands up when things have not gone the way he wanted them to.


THANKYOU DOWIE & HARBIN, we were so so unlucky and had it not been for some woeful refereeing decisions this season, we would have been safe with 2 games to go. I KNOW you will have the players up and ready to go at the start of next season, so lets WIN the Championship, come back bigger, stronger and BETTER than ever, and show the Premiership on our return that we WILL NOT be pushed over again :p