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Richwak
16-05-2005, 05:54 PM
As much as I love Dowie, I cant help but feel that he didnt give a few of our players the chance that they deserved, Torghelle for one wasnt given half a chance, Kaviedes wasnt given his chance, Lakis wasnt, now hes gone back to AEK, Kolkka dissapeared into nowhere. Ventola should have been on yesterday.
Anyway we are coming back up!!!

LeeSinnots ears
16-05-2005, 08:42 PM
Lakis was worse than Rudi Hedman get real please

TheCharmer
16-05-2005, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by LeeSinnots ears
Lakis was worse than Rudi Hedman get real please

Nonsense, you clearly didn't watch Arsenal at home and Spurs away. Lakis was not given a fair crack, Dowie like all managers has his favourites, Leighterwood for one. Now there is a player who is far worse than Lakis.

Velocity
16-05-2005, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by LeeSinnots ears
Lakis was worse than Rudi Hedman get real please

oh dear.

GloverUK
16-05-2005, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Richwak
As much as I love Dowie, I cant help but feel that he didnt give a few of our players the chance that they deserved, Torghelle for one wasnt given half a chance, Kaviedes wasnt given his chance, Lakis wasnt, now hes gone back to AEK, Kolkka dissapeared into nowhere. Ventola should have been on yesterday.
Anyway we are coming back up!!!

Kolkka was at the game on Sat with the others, giving his support as he should

Trolley
17-05-2005, 07:13 AM
With the greatest of 'Respect', the unpalatable truth remains that the signings of 'Mr Dowie' namely Messrs Speroni,Hudson,Lakis,Kolkka, Kaviedes,Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola did NOT make worthwhile contributions to our 'Premiership' campaign and the 'Jury' is well and truly 'out' with regard to the manager's prowess in the transfer market.

:grrr:

Trist
17-05-2005, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Trolley
With the greatest of 'Respect', the unpalatable truth remains that the signings of 'Mr Dowie' namely Messrs Speroni,Hudson,Lakis,Kolkka, Kaviedes,Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola did NOT make worthwhile contributions to our 'Premiership' campaign and the 'Jury' is well and truly 'out' with regard to the manager's prowess in the transfer market.

:grrr:
I agreed that the above players didn't all have the best of seasons…

Speroni - Looks a decent enough keeper, just lacks confidence. If Kiraly we're to leave or gets injured I'd much rather have him on the bench than Cedric.
Hudson - Still young and could still become a very good defender for us.
Lakis - Showed promise, came on a free though so nothing lost.
Kolkka - Probably my biggest dissapointment, I feel he could have done better with a longer run in the team.
Kaviedes - Only on loan, took a gamble… didn't work out. Again no massive loss.
Torghelle - Still young, anyone that’s been to the reserves can see he shows tallent in patches. I think he could be excellent next season in the Championship (if he's still here that is).
Andrews - …. Um… ok, not sure about that one.
Ventola - Always a gamble to take on a player that was so injury prone.

On the other hand… look at the ones that have come good….

Kiraly.
Boyce.
Hall.
Sorondo.

Yes, there are players that have not had great seasons. But look how much we paid for all the players… when bringing in so many players on such little money not all are gonna work out.

jazman
17-05-2005, 07:56 AM
Isn't it saying a lot that most of those signings that have not yet come off are foreign players? Most have a culture shock coming to this country and only start playing well once they have settled in the country. Torghelle is only young so more so, Speroni probably less so as he was in Scotland for a number of years before.

Just think about the plus points for us, those that have paid off have been great.

Halfwayline
17-05-2005, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Trist
I agreed that the above players didn't all have the best of seasons…

Speroni - Looks a decent enough keeper, just lacks confidence. If Kiraly we're to leave or gets injured I'd much rather have him on the bench than Cedric.
Hudson - Still young and could still become a very good defender for us.
Lakis - Showed promise, came on a free though so nothing lost.
Kolkka - Probably my biggest dissapointment, I feel he could have done better with a longer run in the team.
Kaviedes - Only on loan, took a gamble… didn't work out. Again no massive loss.
Torghelle - Still young, anyone that’s been to the reserves can see he shows tallent in patches. I think he could be excellent next season in the Championship (if he's still here that is).
Andrews - …. Um… ok, not sure about that one.
Ventola - Always a gamble to take on a player that was so injury prone.

On the other hand… look at the ones that have come good….

Kiraly.
Boyce.
Hall.
Sorondo.

Yes, there are players that have not had great seasons. But look how much we paid for all the players… when bringing in so many players on such little money not all are gonna work out.

I think this list cost £3.35m, its' the players we didn't bring in that ultimately took us down. Next time we need to spend £8m on 2 more strikers, a play mker and quality left back. Hopefully we will get a couple of wingers for the Championship season

Tommy Pickle
17-05-2005, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Richwak
As much as I love Dowie, I cant help but feel that he didnt give a few of our players the chance that they deserved, Torghelle for one wasnt given half a chance, Kaviedes wasnt given his chance, Lakis wasnt, now hes gone back to AEK, Kolkka dissapeared into nowhere. Ventola should have been on yesterday.
Anyway we are coming back up!!!

Injury has hampered the season for all of the above named players except for Kaviedes. Torghelle started on the 1st day of the season, Kolkka was a regular in the 1st half of the season and Lakis has had several chances. When players have come into replace them and done a good job, ID has opted to select them for the next game, nothing wrong with that IMO.

Windom Earle
17-05-2005, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Tommy Pickle
Kolkka was a regular in the 1st half of the season

Yes until he got injured at spurs away when he was in good form and gradually settling into the team. after that he didn't get much of a chance.

Tom's Old Man
17-05-2005, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Trolley
With the greatest of 'Respect', the unpalatable truth remains that the signings of 'Mr Dowie' namely Messrs Speroni,Hudson,Lakis,Kolkka, Kaviedes,Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola did NOT make worthwhile contributions to our 'Premiership' campaign and the 'Jury' is well and truly 'out' with regard to the manager's prowess in the transfer market.

:grrr:
Have to pretty much agree with that.
Still thought Kaviedes should have had more matches.
Should have signed fewer players, but decent ones.
A decent midfielder and decent left-sided player. I know we missed Cahill but he isn't the only midfielder who would have made the difference.

Grim Reaper
17-05-2005, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Trist
Speroni - If Kiraly we're to leave or gets injured I'd much rather have him on the bench than Cedric.


If Kiraly's injured and Speroni's on the bench who the hell will be between the sticks????? :eek: ;)

Beanie
17-05-2005, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Halfwayline
I think this list cost £3.35m, ....
The headline price perhaps, but that would have included a bit for staying up, a bit for X number of games etc etc. If we actually paid out half that I'd be surprised.

smileysmith
17-05-2005, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Halfwayline
[B]quality left back.B]
I just hope Danny G signs for us again next season ... :(

Radders
17-05-2005, 01:12 PM
Kaviedes had obvious talent but the temprament was always a risk. He had to settle on and off the pitch and learn a complete new way of life. Nobody knew better than Dowie what he would give to the team so I trust ID on that one.

Kollka - don't know how true this is but the "rumour mill" in my neck of the woods suggested thay after the injury against Pompey on Boxing day he continually failed to impress with his effort in the ressies and training. Again, ID needs to be trusted on this

Ventola - Wasn't fit to play 90 on Sunday but ID chose Dougie who scored and won a pen withing 15 mins of coming on. Any other time this would be hailed as a masterstroke! The rest of the season he spent working for BUPA and that was the gamble we had on the guy from day 1!! He makes Darren Andertons appearance record look impressive!

Lakis- Blew hot & cold but despite some decent showings could not do enough to displace WR.

Torghelle - This one is the one that has me stumped. Talented, raw, young but very underused. Why? I have no idea. I hope this guy stays, scores a s**tload next year and is ready for the Prem the next year. I would hate to see him go elsewhere an fulfill his potential.

Panther
17-05-2005, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Radders
Torghelle - This one is the one that has me stumped. Talented, raw, young but very underused. Why? I have no idea. I hope this guy stays, scores a s**tload next year and is ready for the Prem the next year. I would hate to see him go elsewhere an fulfill his potential.

Me too. I can only think ID was worried he'd pick up more cards than goals but it seems strange that he was never given a run of four or five games to prove things one way or the other, esp when we were crying out for AJ to have a strong partner. My assumption is that he'll leave over the summer and we'll be none the wiser.

Gazpacho
17-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Kaviedes never settled and never passed. Gifted player but not good enough to take on the Premiership on his own. Palace wanted him to be a gifted individual but play for the team, not for himself. Palace's priority increasingly became 'just staying up'. Kaviedes didn't change to what was being asked of him ( ie kept giving the ball away far too easily ). Like anyone coming half way across the world he wanted to play or go somewhere where he would get to play. He was available at short notice when others weren't. It might have worked. It just didn't.

Away Day Eagle
18-05-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by smileysmith
I just hope Danny G signs for us again next season ... :(

Unless i was seeing things his positional play at times was woeful and led to conceding numerous goals as a direct result of the same , here's a few :

Liverpool (a) (1st and 2nd)

Charlton (h)


He also hit the bar from all of 5 yards in the 46 min @ Bolton when presented with a open goal from a corner.

Has a good left foot and is comfortable going forward.

Bring back Kenny Sansom ??

paf
18-05-2005, 10:59 AM
all those bloody players we bought, and none of em got a game, so with them all going we'll be in the championship with the same group who scraped into 6th season before last.....

I hope not, but it's looking that way to me.

andy m
18-05-2005, 11:02 AM
As much as I've been a Granville fan in the past, I want to believe that we'll be challenging for promotion next season, and I don't really want to offer a new contract to a player who's clearly going to need to be replaced if we go up. Now I think about it I'm not sure he was actually all that in the first division anyway, but some woeful misses in front of goal and my heart in my mouth every time the opposition attacked down their right wing, means I won't be too upset if he leaves in the Summer. Perhaps a year in an otherwise strong first team for the division its in will do Borrowdale some good.

Away Day Eagle
18-05-2005, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by andy m
As much as I've been a Granville fan in the past, I want to believe that we'll be challenging for promotion next season, and I don't really want to offer a new contract to a player who's clearly going to need to be replaced if we go up. Now I think about it I'm not sure he was actually all that in the first division anyway, but some woeful misses in front of goal and my heart in my mouth every time the opposition attacked down their right wing, means I won't be too upset if he leaves in the Summer. Perhaps a year in an otherwise strong first team for the division its in will do Borrowdale some good.

That makes a lot of sense.Good post. Agreed.

Justin
18-05-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Radders
Torghelle - This one is the one that has me stumped. Talented, raw, young but very underused. Why? I have no idea. I hope this guy stays, scores a s**tload next year and is ready for the Prem the next year. I would hate to see him go elsewhere an fulfill his potential.

It is a strange one but it would appear around the time of the Charlton cup game the club decided he would not be of use this season. They then stopped helping him to settle in as much as they were.

Shame really because I think he could be a real asset but Dowie knows what he sees and I trust him to make a better judgement than me!

Trolley
18-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Justin
Dowie knows what he sees and I trust him to make a better judgement than me!

The 'Judgement' of 'Mr Dowie' can seriously be called into question by the 'signings' of Messrs Hudson, Kaviedes, Speroni, Lakis, Kolkka,Andrews, Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola, NONE of whom made a worthwhile contribution to our 'Premiership' campaign.

:grrr:

French Eagle
18-05-2005, 11:14 AM
what about shiperley !!

it's thanks to him we were in the premiership!!

Trolley
18-05-2005, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by French Eagle
what about shiperley !!

it's thanks to him we were in the premiership!!

'Shipperley' was in fact signed by 'Mr Kember'.

:p

jazman
18-05-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by LeeSinnots ears
Lakis was worse than Rudi Hedman get real please

Did you ever see Rudi Hedman play ??????

Dan Dare
18-05-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Trolley
The 'Judgement' of 'Mr Dowie' can seriously be called into question by the 'signings' of Messrs Hudson, Kaviedes, Speroni, Lakis, Kolkka,Andrews, Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola, NONE of whom made a worthwhile contribution to our 'Premiership' campaign.

:grrr:

Andrews and Andrews?? We signed two of 'em? :eek:

Palace Don
18-05-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Velocity
oh dear.

And Aston Villa

Rasheed Harkouk
18-05-2005, 11:43 AM
Lakis is a right winger but was rarely played there, when he came on against Arsenal at home he was played in this position and created havoc but too often he was played out on the left and Wayne left out on the right. Wayne would have done better for us playing on the left a bit more i'd have thought, that way when he cut inside he'd be able to hit the ball with his right foot rather than electing never to shoot with his left! Lakis was an asset that we never used to his potential.
We shouldn't question the signing of Hudson though, we knew what we where getting, he was a rock for us last season but it's a big step up and he doesn't have the pace of Hall. Andrews was a strange signing and at some point Torgelle will have to stop being 'raw' and start being a player. I was a Kaviedes fan because he gave us something that we didn't have from the middle of the park, yes he was infuriating and lightweight but he also had vision and creativity which is something we have lacked all season from midfield. Ventola was blighted by injury but he was wholehearted so i can't moan about that and his goal vs Soton was maybe the high spot of the season for me. Kolkka is fine but got no service, instead everything went out to Routledge. We looked far more dangerous vs Norwich when Kolkka was down the right and Routledge down the left. Routledge failed to score all season which is dreadful for a player in his advanced position BUT his performances grew towards the end of the season. Speroni however... his confidence looked shot from day 1, you could see from the pre season friendlies that he was all at sea. Kiraly - the man. Boycie - signing of the season. Hall - quality.
I think further Dowie purchases will be less hurried. I'll be interested to see how Eero plays. Bring that season on.

Radders
18-05-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Trolley
The 'Judgement' of 'Mr Dowie' can seriously be called into question by the 'signings' of Messrs Hudson, Kaviedes, Speroni, Lakis, Kolkka,Andrews, Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola, NONE of whom made a worthwhile contribution to our 'Premiership' campaign.

:grrr:

Plenty of those had potential as well as ability and I'm sure Dowie will be the first to take responsibility for them not coming off. However only Andrews IMO can be considered a 100% mistake. Some form of mitigation can be applied to all the others.

Ventola - made of glass.
Torghelle - Hasn't settled, watch this space.
Kaviedes - Always a risk, could't handle the physical side of the prem.
Speroni - 3ft tall goalkeeper, talented but turned out to be out of depth.
Hudson - Young, don't write him off yet.
Lakis - Maybe if he hadn't have stuck that chance over the bar things could have been so different.
Kolkka - Scored 3 cracking goals, not a total failure but questionable attitude.

As Ronaldo, Zidane, Maldini, Rooney, Henry and other dead certs to succeed were unavailiable we had to take a few risks. Thats life!

Malakite
18-05-2005, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Trist
I agreed that the above players didn't all have the best of seasons…

Speroni - Looks a decent enough keeper, just lacks confidence. If Kiraly we're to leave or gets injured I'd much rather have him on the bench than Cedric.
Hudson - Still young and could still become a very good defender for us.
Lakis - Showed promise, came on a free though so nothing lost.
Kolkka - Probably my biggest dissapointment, I feel he could have done better with a longer run in the team.
Kaviedes - Only on loan, took a gamble… didn't work out. Again no massive loss.
Torghelle - Still young, anyone that’s been to the reserves can see he shows tallent in patches. I think he could be excellent next season in the Championship (if he's still here that is).
Andrews - …. Um… ok, not sure about that one.
Ventola - Always a gamble to take on a player that was so injury prone.

On the other hand… look at the ones that have come good….

Kiraly.
Boyce.
Hall.
Sorondo.

Yes, there are players that have not had great seasons. But look how much we paid for all the players… when bringing in so many players on such little money not all are gonna work out.

Good post nice one! :p

smileysmith
18-05-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Away Day Eagle
Unless i was seeing things his positional play at times was woeful and led to conceding numerous goals as a direct result of the same , here's a few :

Liverpool (a) (1st and 2nd)

Charlton (h)


He also hit the bar from all of 5 yards in the 46 min @ Bolton when presented with a open goal from a corner.

Has a good left foot and is comfortable going forward.

Bring back Kenny Sansom ??
I agree he ain't great - but I think there has been a vast improvment under Dowie, and how many of our players exactly can you not accuse of the same faults?

Ashardasucan
18-05-2005, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by jazman
Did you ever see Rudi Hedman play ??????

Has anyone??

Away Day Eagle
18-05-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by smileysmith
I agree he ain't great - but I think there has been a vast improvment under Dowie, and how many of our players exactly can you not accuse of the same faults?

Totally agree.

We have been found wanting on too many occassions this season across the board.

As ID stressed all season the minor lapses of concentration at crucial times would prove crucial - I think Granville is more culpable than many others.

Anyway, Borrowdale is the future and proably a lot less expensive

mean
18-05-2005, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Away Day Eagle
Totally agree.

We have been found wanting on too many occassions this season across the board.

As ID stressed all season the minor lapses of concentration at crucial times would prove crucial - I think Granville is more culpable than many others.

Anyway, Borrowdale is the future and proably a lot less expensive

Please God someone tell me what it is you all see in Gary Borrowdale? I know he's young, but I havnt seen a spark in two seasons that would give me anything to be particularly hopeful about!!

Rasheed Harkouk
18-05-2005, 02:12 PM
Agreed, Borrowdale is only a backup we need someone with some spark at left back. Granville hasn't had a bad season, he scored a few too but he isn't the future but neither is Borrowdale.

Away Day Eagle
18-05-2005, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Trolley
The 'Judgement' of 'Mr Dowie' can seriously be called into question by the 'signings' of Messrs Hudson, Kaviedes, Speroni, Lakis, Kolkka,Andrews, Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola, NONE of whom made a worthwhile contribution to our 'Premiership' campaign.

:grrr:

Yes he's made a few faux pas in the transfer dealings but what manager hasn't ?

By his own admission ID recognizes the fact that he is still learning his trade as a top flight manager. One fact I think that will keep him with us for a while longer yet. He is/was using this approach with WR in a bid to stop him becoming the next biggest player never to have fulfilled his potential.

Kolkka flatters to deceive and something must have gone on in training for him to have been left out so much. We probably shall never know.

I think Speroni has been an unmitigated disaster. Andrews - no comment.

Kaviedes wasn't really interested.

Ventola - has the quality and will go down as a massive what if he'd been fit. He is now no doubt on wheels to elsewhere.At least he scored for us !!

Torghelle has been the biggest let down. He had one good game @ Spurs when he came on as sub for the last half hour or so. Could have provided so many more options but didn't

Tommy Pickle
18-05-2005, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Trolley
The 'Judgement' of 'Mr Dowie' can seriously be called into question by the 'signings' of Messrs Hudson, Kaviedes, Speroni, Lakis, Kolkka,Andrews, Torghelle, Andrews and Ventola, NONE of whom made a worthwhile contribution to our 'Premiership' campaign.

:grrr:

All of whom have cost us practically nothing, except Torghelle who's transfer we will recoup if he does leave in the summer.

steve hail
20-05-2005, 04:52 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gazpacho
[B]Kaviedes never settled and never passed. Gifted player but not good enough to take on the Premiership on his own. Palace wanted him to be a gifted individual but play for the team, not for himself. Palace's priority increasingly became 'just staying up'. Kaviedes didn't change to what was being asked of him ( ie kept giving the ball away far too easily ).


I don't think we saw enough of him in proper matches to judge.

cpfc_spc1982
20-05-2005, 06:00 AM
alot of these guys just werent good enough and should really be sold now. its unfair to say dowie is completly naive though as he did identify ashton, cahill and gera as targets and if we had them we might well have been mid table.

cpfc_spc1982
20-05-2005, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by mean
Please God someone tell me what it is you all see in Gary Borrowdale? I know he's young, but I havnt seen a spark in two seasons that would give me anything to be particularly hopeful about!!

average at best borrowdale in my opinion.