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View Full Version : do we sell players too soon?


kettle
19-05-2005, 12:41 PM
It is has always struck me that if a player, especially a foreign player doesn't do the business in his first season then we ship him out elsewhere. (where invariably he does the business:bash: ) I remember Bergkamp being terrible in his first season and then once he had adjusted his second season was far better. It is the same with Reyes. I expect him to perform much better next season.
Now, I am not saying for a moment that Lakis, Kollka,Torghelle,Speroni etc.etc are in the same class as the Arsenal players mentioned, but I really think we had done well to get International players in to Palace and think it is a shame we are willing to get rid of them so quickly...
not very well worded, but I hope you get my point!
Discuss.

olreagle
19-05-2005, 12:43 PM
No.

Santos-er
19-05-2005, 12:45 PM
Zohar went on to win the World Cup with Israel. Nuff said.... :D

davematt
19-05-2005, 12:46 PM
Possibly a good point. Be interesting too see if we get to find out....

pallet
19-05-2005, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Santos-er
Zohar went on to win the World Cup with Israel. Nuff said.... :D
He was the bus driver.

But to answer your original point Kettle, I would imagine its down to maoney, Aresenal can afford to pay for a player to sit in the resevres on 90k a week, we cant.Also if they are at a big club they are patince and will wait for a chance, at Palace they expect to play.

Panther
19-05-2005, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Santos-er
Zohar went on to win the World Cup with Israel. Nuff said.... :D

Are you sure it wasn't Amsalem?:o

Malakite
19-05-2005, 02:06 PM
Kettle - I know what you are saying, fair comment and I do agree we need to give some players a fairer crack of the whip..players like Kolkka without a DOUBT! :p

kettle
19-05-2005, 03:16 PM
it just seems that we manage to get better players in than normal...ie. Kolkka, Lakis and then when they don't do amazing things week in week out, then they are immediately shipped out. Ismael was a prime example - OK he never did great, but it was his first season, the same could be said for Berhalter. He was terrible vs. Barnsley and then never got a look in.
The pair of them would be very useful now, no doubt.

Boyandy
19-05-2005, 03:24 PM
Yes - although part of that is due to us fans not giving people a chance.

I'd like to see Kolkka and especially Sandor stay around - I'm convinced Sandor will get us goals in this division.

Cleon
19-05-2005, 03:33 PM
I agree that we should keep Sandor. Less fussed about Kolkka.

st albans
19-05-2005, 03:38 PM
if they don't want to stay what can we do about it???

Marshy
19-05-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Less fussed about Kolkka.

I find this is quite a general opinion and I for one cant work out why?

Before his injury at Spurs he was quality and we were really troubling teams of both flanks with him and wayne, he also scored some great goals especially the one at Anfield. I can only imagine he has had a major disagreement with the management as I cant think of any other reason that would keep him out of the side - certainly not Soares on the left!!!!

Why is everyone happy to let a class player leave us?

kettle
20-05-2005, 07:32 AM
sandor will bag us goals next season if played. Lakis was tailor made for the right hand side, as kolkka was on the left. As for people not wanting to stay its not surprising when we sign them then hardly play them!!!

welshneil
20-05-2005, 07:37 AM
This is an excellent thread, one that sticks out in my mind is Forssell who wasn't too impressive when he first signed on loan but went on to be probably our best and hardest working player the following season! YES I guess it takes time to adjust to the English leagues, particularly the Premiership and I'd tend to agree with Kettle. Even have a sneak feeling Speroni could be a quality keeper after a season working with Dowie, harbin & Co.

Tommy Pickle
20-05-2005, 08:41 AM
We'll hang on to Speroni and maybe Sandor. None of the other players that have been mentioned are going to want to stay. Kolkka and Lakis will want a move away. No offence, but comparisons between any players we have had at the club to Berkamp, and comparisons between Palace and Arsenal are crazy.

Dobbo
20-05-2005, 09:22 AM
Don't think we sold Clinton too early :hi:

Beanie
20-05-2005, 10:11 AM
Its surely a question of what the management sees in training, bit like deciding which youngsters to release. If the managemnet see something that makes them think that the player will make it in reasonable time (open to definition) they will keep them. If they don't then better to spend the wages on a more promising player. It's not absolute either - you looking for a player who will perform in the Palace team, which may be different to a player making it elsewhere.

Jay_eagle
20-05-2005, 10:19 AM
the problem I believe is that the international players don't really want to be playin the championship, the premiership is the most well known league in the world and thats what the international players want. There not to fussed about palace really, and they wanna go soon after.

If they can get into say the german top league they will go for it.

kettle
20-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Tommy Pickle
We'll hang on to Speroni and maybe Sandor. None of the other players that have been mentioned are going to want to stay. Kolkka and Lakis will want a move away. No offence, but comparisons between any players we have had at the club to Berkamp, and comparisons between Palace and Arsenal are crazy.

That's just the only example I could find!!! Berhalter and Ismael were terrible for us. They were there less than a season. Now one played well in the WC 1/4 final, and the other has been playing regularly in the Champions League.
Zohar was terrible full stop and couldn't and wouldn't have adapted.
Lakis was quality in spells. Namely when he came on as a sub for 10-15 minutes. If he had been given a run in the side he would have done well!
Kolkka looked class in spells too.

I just feel we have given people away far too easily who have done well elsewhere, yet we never seem to learn.

I would agree that getting relegated to the Championship would have affected who we keep, but I feel we should have shown more faith in seasoned internationals that we managed to sign.

steve hail
22-05-2005, 05:19 AM
There is a sort of xenophobia at Palace.

Overseas players are not given a fair chance by the fans, if they don't impress from day one.

So we lose potentially excellent players.

We get what we deserve.

You'll see Lakis in the UEFA cup final one day.

And some of you will still think Wayne Andrews is better.

redandblue
22-05-2005, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by steve hail

You'll see Lakis in the UEFA cup final one day.

And some of you will still think Wayne Andrews is better.

I would be very much suprised if we did I agree brilliance in spells you only have to watch the Arsenal game to see that but no consitency and struggels to hot a barnd door from 2 yards

I think that Kollka should be given more of a chance

kettle
23-05-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by steve hail
There is a sort of xenophobia at Palace.

Overseas players are not given a fair chance by the fans, if they don't impress from day one.

So we lose potentially excellent players.

We get what we deserve.

You'll see Lakis in the UEFA cup final one day.

And some of you will still think Wayne Andrews is better.

I wouldn't class it as xenophobia, but merely seems to be to be shortsighted getting better quality players in, only to hardly play them.

Tommy Pickle
23-05-2005, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by kettle
Berhalter and Ismael were terrible for us. They were there less than a season. Now one played well in the WC 1/4 final, and the other has been playing regularly in the Champions League.
Zohar was terrible full stop and couldn't and wouldn't have adapted.

Firstly i disagree that both were terrible for us.

By your own admission we didn't sell Zohar too early, bacause he wouldn't have adapted.

Berhalters move was all down to him wanting to leave the club

Originally posted by kettle
Lakis was quality in spells. Namely when he came on as a sub for 10-15 minutes. If he had been given a run in the side he would have done well! Kolkka looked class in spells too.

I just feel we have given people away far too easily who have done well elsewhere, yet we never seem to learn.

I would agree that getting relegated to the Championship would have affected who we keep, but I feel we should have shown more faith in seasoned internationals that we managed to sign.

I doubt whether decisions to let players go have been made as flippantly as you suggest. If a player doesn't want to stay, then there is little we can do, and similarly if a player isn't good enough to justify the amount we are paying him, then he must also leave.

kettle
23-05-2005, 02:27 PM
why sign people unless you are going to play them? Whenever I've seen Lakis play he has looked good.
Kolkka looked better with each game he played, then got dropped! I beliebe they are two of the best wide players we have managed to sign in ages, yet they haven't really been given a chance. There were times when Routledge did nothing in game after game, yet he was never substituted...Fair enough if there wasn't a suitable replacement, but we had Lakis and Kolkka doing nothing but sit on the bench!!

Billyd
23-05-2005, 04:17 PM
i remember ipswich signing some argentinian's ages a ago as my borther supports. Both of them didnt hardly play a game for well over a year and everyone thought they were shit. One turned out to sign for tottenham for quite alot (Tarrico) and the other ending up being top goal scorer one season.

We should definetley stick with the likes of kollka and torghelle

Billyd
23-05-2005, 04:18 PM
also Lakis was a pretty good player, maybe his heart wasnt totally in it but it could be after a while had he stayed

Tommy Pickle
24-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Billyd
also Lakis was a pretty good player, maybe his heart wasnt totally in it but it could be after a while had he stayed

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you think a player who's 'heart wasn't in it' during a prem campaign would be more up for it in the championship?!?

EMLEY EAGLE
24-05-2005, 09:07 PM
I still think we should have hung on to Thomas Brolin. He was terrible in his first season but you could guarantee he was going to get bigger!

MikeyDread
24-05-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by steve hail
There is a sort of xenophobia at Palace.


Was he one of our Chines players ? :p

nomad
24-05-2005, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Marshy
I find this is quite a general opinion and I for one cant work out why?

Before his injury at Spurs he was quality and we were really troubling teams of both flanks with him and wayne, he also scored some great goals especially the one at Anfield. I can only imagine he has had a major disagreement with the management as I cant think of any other reason that would keep him out of the side - certainly not Soares on the left!!!!

Why is everyone happy to let a class player leave us?

Because they would rather see a clown like Torghelle who throws himself around like a jet propelled missile but is as effective as a damp squib. Kollka will be quality in the Championship but will ID give him a chance?

hughff
24-05-2005, 10:52 PM
i think palace (and most fans) are too reluctant to go international, to our detriment