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Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 08:21 AM
From The Times today


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-27-1642633,00.html


===========================================

FA shown in poor light by hardline tactics against vunerable Millwall
By Rod Liddle
This celebrity fan hits out at unfair handling of clubs in the lower divisions





THE FA is expected to deliver its verdict today on what to do with Millwall. We’re in the dock again, this time awaiting sentence. The FA has already found us guilty, although quite how, or why, is anyone’s guess. The club fear a large fine and maybe closure of the ground — either of which could push us over the edge.

Like most clubs outside the Barclays Premiership, we’re perennially in debt. We don’t do much tapping up of famous players. The fans get tapped up for the occasional donation, that’s about it.

The circumstances of Millwall’s conviction are bizarre. But we’re dealing here with the monumental arrogance and partisanship of the FA and its eagerness to score cheap political points. For those in Soho Square, there are teams that matter — the Premiership teams — and those that don’t — the rest. What’s happening to Millwall could have happened to any small club, from Tranmere Rovers to Brighton & Hove Albion.

Last October, Millwall played Liverpool in a Carling Cup game and got well and truly stuffed. There was quite a lot of violence at the game — all of it from the Liverpool fans. Some 68 seats were ripped out of the away end, coins were hurled at home supporters and a disabled Liverpool fan was injured by his comrades in the mêlée. Three Liverpool fans were arrested and convicted: no Millwall fans were arrested.

Quite rightly, the FA decided to investigate and in March this year, under its new chief executive, Brian Barwick (a Liverpool fan), pronounced Millwall guilty. Liverpool, meanwhile, seem to have been exonerated.

The FA decided that Millwall fans, and therefore the club, were guilty of racist chanting directed at Liverpool’s black defender, Djimi Traoré. They came to this conclusion despite neither the player nor Liverpool officials making any such complaint. Nor, during or directly after the game, did Liverpool supporters make a complaint of racism. Further, the Millwall stewards, who evict racists peremptorily, heard no racist chanting and neither did the Metropolitan Police.

That’s what they told the FA, too. Just to confirm this, I spoke to the police yesterday: they insisted that at no time were any complaints received; that they heard no racist chanting and that no Millwall fans were evicted for racist chanting. Rick Parry, the Liverpool chief executive, is believed also to have told the FA there was no allegation of racist chanting.

I was there, too. I heard Traoré being roundly jeered by the Millwall contingent — but that was because he had clattered Marvin Elliott, the Millwall midfield player (who is, with wholly predictable irony, black). The FA says it thought the jeering took the form of monkey noises, but I’m not sure what sort of monkeys they’ve been mixing with. It sounded to me — and to everybody else — like “boooo!” There was some pretty unpleasant chanting about the Hillsborough disaster, which may be what inflamed the Liverpool fans. But that wasn’t on the charge sheet.

Once an inquiry had been called, a handful of Liverpool fans retrospectively decided that Millwall’s antipathy to Traoré had been provoked by the colour of his skin and — astonishingly — the FA agreed, despite testimonies to the contrary from the police, Liverpool, the player and Millwall. So we face crippling costs from the threat of an unspecified number of games behind closed doors while the FA continues its sterling efforts to get Liverpool admitted to next season’s Champions League.

As I say, there are clubs that matter and clubs that don’t matter. Never mind the evidence, never mind the ripped-out seats and the hurled coins, never mind the proven incidences of racism at other Premiership clubs this past year, about which the FA did, well, FA. Stick the boot into a small club who have neither the clout nor the influential lobby to hit back. It doesn’t matter if it scuppers their season or, indeed, their existence: it’s only Millwall. Or Tranmere, or Brighton. Or any of the rest.


==================================


Another example of the football authorities leaning over to help a big club at the expense of a smaller club?

Del Gland
06-06-2005, 08:28 AM
Another reason why it's not so bad to be in the Championship again - everyone has a sporting chance of success!

paf
06-06-2005, 08:31 AM
you reap what you sew.

Selhurst Celtic
06-06-2005, 08:34 AM
Two millwall fans were arrested and charged for attacking a liverpool fan at that match.

Also, why did the liverpool supporters react in that manner?
Songs about Hillsborough, Ken Bigley and I've heard rumours about Jamie Bulger were being aimed at them.

Anyway, playing matches behind closed doors? Would the players notice?

JHJ EAGLE
06-06-2005, 08:34 AM
What goes around comes around!!!:D :D :D

Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by paf
you reap what you sew.

I guess so. It probably is a case of Liverpool reaping the benefits of having more clout than Milwall. In the same way that they reaped the benefits of having more clout than Palace when we were denied entry to Europe.

Pooh Pooh head
06-06-2005, 08:37 AM
coz millwall fans are angels arn't they.

Stanley Techer
06-06-2005, 08:38 AM
I wasn't aware that M******l mattered anyway...

sydney eagle
06-06-2005, 08:39 AM
They have gotten away with so much in the past it's impossible to feel sympathy for them.

Cleon
06-06-2005, 08:44 AM
I feel no sympathy for Millwall, because they have gotten away with it so many times in the past. Only a couple of years ago they were ripping seats out of the Arthur Wait stand and hurling them and coins at Palace fans in the Holmesdale.

That said, I think the correspondent is right to highlight the hypocrisy of the FA, and for all I know he may be correct on this incident.

anti-addick
06-06-2005, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by paf
you reap what you sew.


Exactly paf, and it's typical that Millwall stand there in total denial about it too. So Hillsborough chanting to wind up the scousers is OK??? That is a 'no go' chant for Palace afaik very much like laughing about the Bradford City fire. We all know that Liverpool fans tend to be pretty well behaved and respectful lot unless provoked.

If they turned around and said 'yeah we have a problem and we'll sort it out' then their own fans policed themselves like they do at most clubs then they wouldn't have an issue, but no, it was all someone elses fault......AGAIN. This time the Liverpool fan at the FA rather than poor policing or stewarding.

One club I don't think people we be disappointed to see the back of.

eagles #1
06-06-2005, 08:53 AM
Scummy club with scummy fans. Deserve what they get.

Thanks for Darren Ward though. :D

Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by anti-addick
Exactly paf, and it's typical that Millwall stand there in total denial about it too. So Hillsborough chanting to wind up the scousers is OK???

Denial about what? We don’t know if Hillsborough chants were used, even if a poster above tells us that it’s ‘rumoured’. But even if they were used, that’s not what Millwall were charged with. The charge against them was racist chanting and, if this article is correct, it seems to have been a made up charge.

I think that what you’re saying is that even if they are innocent, they’ve been guilty of it so often in the past that they still deserve to get done on a made up charge.

That’s fine. Except next time it might be Palace that is choosen as the sacrificial lamb. Or any other club outside the premiership because the football authorities are concerned mainly with protecting the interests of those clubs – and the rest can feck themselves.

Les Age
06-06-2005, 09:02 AM
Lock the Den's doors and throw away the key.

I'm sick of them getting away with this sort of thing and blaming others for there actions it's about time the F.A came down hard on them instead of giving them suspended sentence's and silly fines.

Freddy Kurz
06-06-2005, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Les Age
Lock the Den's doors and throw away the key.

I'm sick of them getting away with this sort of thing and blaming others for there actions it's about time the F.A came down hard on them instead of giving them suspended sentence's and silly fines.


A very well-argued case for the defence, but Millwall do have an
abysmal record for crowd misbehaviour, dating at least back to
1947 to my memory, when their ground was closed and their
home Second Division game with Newcastle United had to be
staged at Selhurst Park and about 30,000 turned up to see
Millwall beaten! It's time Millwall sorted out their hooligan
element once-and-for-all. Some of the '47 lot must be
great-grandads by now!

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
06-06-2005, 09:29 AM
Yep, same old Millwall shit, "we didn't do anything wrong, it's a conspiracy again poor little old fluffy Millwall, we are a family club, we are not racist, we haven't got a problem" yadda yadda yadda.

Eagles Fan
06-06-2005, 09:33 AM
deserve everything they get, bunch of ••••••• arseholes

Panther
06-06-2005, 09:34 AM
....and Liverpool fans are of course all whiter than white......

olreagle
06-06-2005, 09:35 AM
No sympathy whatsoever.

Lambeth Palace
06-06-2005, 09:37 AM
Hand on heart, can anyone on these boards even begin to imagine such vile abuse coming from Millwall fans?

Eagles Fan
06-06-2005, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
There was quite a lot of violence at the game — all of it from the Liverpool fans


There was some pretty unpleasant chanting about the Hillsborough disaster, which may be what inflamed the Liverpool fans. But that wasn’t on the charge sheet.


ignorant tosser

Jack Regan
06-06-2005, 11:50 AM
They can close down The New Den tomorrow for all I care.

No one likes YOU.
WE don't care.

pete eagle
06-06-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Eagles Fan
ignorant tosser

He seems to be the only one talking sense, of course we know Millwall fans aren't the loveliest people on the planet and aren't very nice most of the time. But they are being accused of something they haven't done, whilst the Liverpool contingent who were seen to be ripping up seats and causing violence got away with it. If this had been someone like QPR,Plymouth then we would all be slagging off the FA, just because it's Millwall, doesn't mean that the FA is right.

Falco
06-06-2005, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
He seems to be the only one talking sense, of course we know Millwall fans aren't the loveliest people on the planet and aren't very nice most of the time. But they are being accused of something they haven't done, whilst the Liverpool contingent who were seen to be ripping up seats and causing violence got away with it. If this had been someone like QPR,Plymouth then we would all be slagging off the FA, just because it's Millwall, doesn't mean that the FA is right.

I think the point was that the writer (Rod Liddle) was somewhat overtly dismissive of the very real offence the Liverpool contingent are likely to take at chants being made about Hillsborough etc. I cannot think of any other set of supporters in the country who would be sick and nasty enough to make chants about Hillsborough or other similar football tragedies.

El Aguila
06-06-2005, 03:32 PM
I rub my chin in the general direction of Mr. Liddle's article.

pete eagle
06-06-2005, 03:40 PM
Yes, that is very true, but it doesn't excuse the reaction of the Liverpool supporters. The point is the FA have charged them with racist chanting, which didn't take place and ignored what the Liverpool fans did, which is what they were meant to be investigating in the first place. Singing Hillsborough chants is disgusting, but they haven't been charged with it and should be a separate issue.

Cleon
06-06-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Falco
I cannot think of any other set of supporters in the country who would be sick and nasty enough to make chants about Hillsborough or other similar football tragedies.

Manchester United fans regularly sing "It's just a little crush" at the Liverpool faithful.

Falco
06-06-2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
Yes, that is very true, but it doesn't excuse the reaction of the Liverpool supporters. The point is the FA have charged them with racist chanting, which didn't take place and ignored what the Liverpool fans did, which is what they were meant to be investigating in the first place. Singing Hillsborough chants is disgusting, but they haven't been charged with it and should be a separate issue.

Point taken, but I would venture that it is one of the few times where perhaps the FA are justified in taking a rather one-sided view and for Liddle to claim he is representing all the other clubs (Brighton etc) is well off the mark: no other club would behave in the way Millwall have behaved.

Cleon
06-06-2005, 03:50 PM
Oh, and Liverpool sing songs about the Munich Air Crash.

And I recall Palace singing "did the Doctor kill your mum" to Manchester City fans.

LP
06-06-2005, 03:54 PM
The problem is that whilst I accept that Millwall have probably been treated unfairly here, they can't have it both ways. They're more than happy to revel in that whole 'no one likes us' image etc etc when it suits them as we unfortunately see every time they visit SP, yet when something like this happens they're suddenley the victims. Ultimately you reap what you sow in this world.

Heb 7:4
06-06-2005, 03:57 PM
I'm shocked by some of the comments on here. Millwall certainly have more than their fair share of racist scumbag fans but the club have tried hard to deal with the problem. No matter how much we may hate Millwall, it's just not right that the FA should concoct a charge of racism to suit their own purposes.

On this occasion I firmly believe, from all the testimony at the time, that there was no racist chanting. Some sick stuff about Hillsborough, Bulger and Bigley, which of course we all expect from Millwall. But this is not what they are being punished for (I don't think they could be punished just for being a bunch or arseholes) they are being punished for racist chanting, which according to the players (including the bloke who the FA claim was racially abused) the ref and both clubs did not occur. Makes a mockery of the hard work and zero tolerance stewarding going on at the Den to combat racism. What incentive is there for Millwall FC to continue their hard work if they're going to get punished regardless?

Falco
06-06-2005, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Heb 7:4
I'm shocked by some of the comments on here. Millwall certainly have more than their fair share of racist scumbag fans but the club have tried hard to deal with the problem. No matter how much we may hate Millwall, it's just not right that the FA should concoct a charge of racism to suit their own purposes.

On this occasion I firmly believe, from all the testimony at the time, that there was no racist chanting. Some sick stuff about Hillsborough, Bulger and Bigley, which of course we all expect from Millwall. But this is not what they are being punished for (I don't think they could be punished just for being a bunch or arseholes) they are being punished for racist chanting, which according to the players (including the bloke who the FA claim was racially abused) the ref and both clubs did not occur. Makes a mockery of the hard work and zero tolerance stewarding going on at the Den to combat racism. What incentive is there for Millwall FC to continue their hard work if they're going to get punished regardless?

I think there is some dispute about whether Liddle has his facts right and Millwall have indeed been censured for racism. It looks to me more likely that the charge could instead be for abusive language, which would no doubt include the anti-Hillsborough chants which Liddle referred to.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2005/06/Disciplinary_MillwallLiverpool_Decision.htm

Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Falco
I think there is some dispute about whether Liddle has his facts right and Millwall have indeed been censured for racism. It looks to me more likely that the charge could instead be for abusive language, which would no doubt include the anti-Hillsborough chants which Liddle referred to.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2005/06/Disciplinary_MillwallLiverpool_Decision.htm


The information provided by the FA is ambiguous. It first refers to "racist and/or abusive behaviour" and then later says that

"This sanction would be activated in the event of the club's supporters being found to have used racist behaviour, conduct or language during the 2005-06 season."

So - they dress it up at the start as being a charge of racist and /or abusive, and theh home in on the racist. Despite neither the player, nor Liverpool, nor the police reporting any racist behaviour.

It's a ••••••• stitch up by authorities hell-bent on protecting the big clubs.

Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Falco
[B] It looks to me more likely that the charge could instead be for abusive language, which would no doubt include the anti-Hillsborough chants which Liddle referred to.


If abusive chants are to be penalised then all clubs are guilty.

as I say, it's a stitch-up. And believe me - I hate Millwall

Falco
06-06-2005, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
If abusive chants are to be penalised then all clubs are guilty.

as I say, it's a stitch-up. And believe me - I hate Millwall

Clubs are only guilty, according to that report, if the club had failed to take all reasonable steps to avoid the abusive chants / behaviour. Which apparently Millwall did not: it would be interesting to see how the FA came to this decision.

I agree, all clubs should be treated fairly and equally. But I think harsher and more decisive action is needed to avoid these problems: I am sure Millwall have had various previous suspended sentences etc imposed on them. But I think we can all agree, Millwall are a different case. Their behaviour over the years has been significantly and consistently worse than that of any other club.

Big Malcontent
06-06-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Falco
Their behaviour over the years has been significantly and consistently worse than that of any other club.

I agree. But trumped up charges is not the way to deal with it.

TN16_Eagle
06-06-2005, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
What’s happening to Millwall could have happened to any small club, from Tranmere Rovers to Brighton & Hove Albion.


:D :hi:

Dillenger
06-06-2005, 07:49 PM
rod liddell is an ex spurs supporting tw*t who nowadays likes to think he's a bit of a geezer by going down to the den. i couldnt give a f*ck if millwall are getting a bit of well deserved sh*t for what they've been doing for years.

it might not be the correct charge this time, but then so what - they got Al Capone on tax evasion, before dieing of syphillus. personally i hope millwall experience an equally slow and painful death.

Swindle
06-06-2005, 07:56 PM
Scumwall's new song: No-one likes us, we do care!

ANDYEAGLE
06-06-2005, 09:49 PM
Sympathy for Millwall? If it was Brighton,Tranmere or whoever I would have sympathy, especially if the charges are trumped up(we dont know that). It may not be fair by the law of the land, but many people will see it as justice for what they have got away with in the past.
No sympathy from me.

EMLEY EAGLE
06-06-2005, 10:02 PM
A leopard does not change its spots.Trying to paint Millwall as whiter than white just wont wash.
Let them have 10 years of no trouble and then we might believe it.

tommygear
06-06-2005, 10:06 PM
I feel so sorry for them. The behaviour of Millwall fans in the past hasn't been anything short of impecible. I must say, when they come to Selhurst I have never sensed any animosity. And as for the ripping out of seats and throwing of coins, the Millwall fans must have been shocked as they have never been guilty of such behaviour. I can't believe that humourous banter about Hillsbourgh causing such an upset. Those Liverpool fans must have a seroius chip on their shoulder, they're crazy! Poor old Millwall, I hope it gets sorted out in the end.


















:rolleyes:

eagles #1
06-06-2005, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Heb 7:4
I'm shocked by some of the comments on here. Millwall certainly have more than their fair share of racist scumbag fans but the club have tried hard to deal with the problem. No matter how much we may hate Millwall, it's just not right that the FA should concoct a charge of racism to suit their own purposes.

On this occasion I firmly believe, from all the testimony at the time, that there was no racist chanting. Some sick stuff about Hillsborough, Bulger and Bigley, which of course we all expect from Millwall. But this is not what they are being punished for (I don't think they could be punished just for being a bunch or arseholes) they are being punished for racist chanting, which according to the players (including the bloke who the FA claim was racially abused) the ref and both clubs did not occur. Makes a mockery of the hard work and zero tolerance stewarding going on at the Den to combat racism. What incentive is there for Millwall FC to continue their hard work if they're going to get punished regardless? But the majority of Millwall fans are racist. Check out the 'politics discussion' forum on www.independentmillwall.com

Wouldnt get chat like that on the BBS or on any other clubs fans forum that has an ounce of intelligence on them.

Biggest bunch of BNP bollocks around.

Riccardo
07-06-2005, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
There was some pretty unpleasant chanting about the Hillsborough disaster, which may be what inflamed the Liverpool fans.

Really ??! Do you reckon ???

Typical Millwall feeling sorry for themselves.


Like a scene with a school teacher pulling up a bully.

"Someone had a go at us first Sir, that's not fair"

"Yes, but little Millwall you regularly take other children's dinner money and clout them about"

"But it isn't fair ! Someone done it to us first Sir !!"

Riccardo
07-06-2005, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
It's a ••••••• stitch up by authorities hell-bent on protecting the big clubs.

I wonder if Millwall would be looking out for us if it was the other way around Mal ?

Remember we are talking about the club that bid £100k for Morrison and Mullins combined when we went into administration.

Jack Regan
07-06-2005, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Riccardo
I wonder if Millwall would be looking out for us if it was the other way around

Of course they wouldn't.

I think it's brilliant thing that Millwall are going to get into trouble for something they DIDN'T do.

Makes a change.

matayusgiovanni
07-06-2005, 09:12 AM
Having worked in the area for 7 years i am fully aware of the racist, ignorant attitude of the MAJORITY of Millwall supporters.

Possibly on this occasion they have been treated unfairly but that does not excuse the endless stream of violent behaviour that i have witnessed.

Someone brave from inside the club needs to stand up and try to change the "siege" mentality that these morons revel in.

These knuckle draggers are in their late 40's and 50's now but my concern is(and was then) that they would pass this racist,violent bile onto younger, impressionable supporters. Having recently been out for an ale with a mate who owns a pub in the area i can report that the next generation of filth is maturing nicely.
A nasty club, a nasty reputation, a nasty area inhabited by ignorant, aggressive, nasty people who have neither the intelligence or willpower to think or act any differently.

Elephant with mouse gyp
07-06-2005, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by eagles #1
But the majority of Millwall fans are racist. Check out the 'politics discussion' forum on www.independentmillwall.com

Wouldnt get chat like that on the BBS or on any other clubs fans forum that has an ounce of intelligence on them.

Biggest bunch of BNP bollocks around.

Nasty. Please tell me there are other Millwall message boards not populated by these types.

eagles #1
07-06-2005, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
Nasty. Please tell me there are other Millwall message boards not populated by these types. The only other Millwall site that i know of is there Rivals messageboard. And guess what, i got banned for calling someone a racist when they were telling a joke about black people in Croydon beings "monkey's in the mist" to which they all seemed to find hilarious. There mentality was "ah it's only a joke"?!?

So i doubt there are other messageboards not populated by these types.

Heb 7:4
07-06-2005, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by eagles #1
But the majority of Millwall fans are racist. Check out the 'politics discussion' forum on www.independentmillwall.com

Wouldnt get chat like that on the BBS or on any other clubs fans forum that has an ounce of intelligence on them.

Biggest bunch of BNP bollocks around.

Without a doubt Millwall has a major problem with racists. Their stock response whenever you point this out is to whinge about the media and state that every club has racists. While this is true I don't think many have as many as Millwall. It's only when Millwall come to Selhurst that you get NF & BNP stickers on the lamposts. It's only Millwall who would think calling us "Crystal N***er" is a witty nickname. And looking at the politics on the rivals board they are far far more rightwing than other boards.

However, despite all that, I think the FA's actions are disgusting. For while Millwall definately have a load of racist fans, the club has been making an effort to stamp it out. It has a zero tolerance stewarding policy (which I love to hear Millwall fans whinge about) and has done everything you could reasonably expect of a club. On this occassion there was no racism, and Millwall football club is being punished for negligence in failing to stop their fans being racist. This is just wrong, and removes the incentive for Millwall to continue being so pro-active in combating racism. If they're going to get punished regardless, why bother?

magician
07-06-2005, 11:42 AM
we all know that millwall will walk away unscathed from this as usual!
that nothing will happen (as the charges are a farce this time )
but as paf said at the start
you reap what you sow

they have really made an effort down there regarding racisim but they will never eradicate the problem without dropping to crowds of 3000

there are some really nice and decent people who follow millwall all around the country (my missus and the freinds that she sits with )

unfortunatly they cannot rid themselves of the sovereign ring and reebok classic boys

GazzaM
07-06-2005, 03:57 PM
Being a Millwall Fan I knew the FA's Kangaroo court was going to do the dirty on us.

There is a lot of talk of Hillsborough chants, less of Liverpool singing about Stabbings in Budapest. Its just the same old tit for tat that goes on up and down the country, but apparantly not at Selhurst park.

Almost passing uncommented on, is that Millwall got fined £7,500 for Liverpool fans ripping out seats and chucking them on the pitch.

The Crux of the matter is covered by The Telegraph...

In the 76th minute of the game, Millwall's Marvin Elliott and Djimi Traore of Liverpool, who are both black, squared up to each other, though no yellow cards were shown. Neither referee Alan Wiley, the nearest assistant referee, police officers or stewards heard any racist chanting while the media, never slow to drag Millwall into the headlines for the wrong reasons, reported nothing. Traore made no complaint so, in effect, nobody on the night saw or heard anything wrong.

A few days later some e-mails arrived at FA headquarters from Liverpool fans - one subsequently admitted he had made his account up entirely - alleging racist chanting during the tie, though there was no proof the senders were at the game.

The FA asked Sky Sports, who were covering the game, for the match video but The Daily Telegraph understands this was initially inconclusive.

The soundtrack around the 76th minute was then digitally enhanced and there was a belief that there was "non-sequential booing" from apparently one person.

Millwall were subsequently charged - there can be few other instances when the match officials, stewards, police, spectators and players offered no evidence yet charges were still made.

Liverpool's 3-0 victory was marred by scenes of violence in the end containing away supporters. Over 60 seats were ripped out and hurled onto the pitch as riot police attempted to contain the visiting fans.

However, while Liverpool were found to have discharged their responsibilities in respect of taking all reasonable steps to prevent the misconduct by their supporters, the commission found that Millwall had failed in this regard.

I think they have the time wrong, it was early in first half. probably 7 or 8 minutes in.

So one person committing "non-sequential booing" (do they mean monkey noises ?) which was not heard on the day and only checked when a professional scouse agitator (Peter Etherington) who was not at the match organised an e-mail campagin and still could only be heard when they messed with the tape digitally has resulted in a £25,000 fine for Millwall FC and the threat of a ground closure!

Big Malcontent
07-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Thank you GazzaM for your post which contains a lot of independent material which all says to me that this decision by the FA is an absolute bloody scandal.

And what I say to any Palace fans who can't see that is that it's scandalous is the next time a Premier team comes to Selhurst, and we have a shot which is handled on the line, and a follow up which crosses the line by two foot, but the refereee sees nothing and waves play on then DON'T BLOODY COMPLAIN.

Dillenger
07-06-2005, 05:54 PM
well they got away with booing our black players (clinton and julian gray especially) about 3 years ago, so i couldnt give a toss if they're now being a bit hard done by.

although the one thing that does irk is it seems they get away with it against lower league opposition, but as much as a sniff of it against the big clubs and they get hammered. still, couldnt happen to a nicer club though.

Jack Regan
08-06-2005, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by GazzaM
Being a Millwall Fan I knew the FA's Kangaroo court was going to do the dirty on us.

There is a lot of talk of Hillsborough chants, less of Liverpool singing about Stabbings in Budapest. Its just the same old tit for tat that goes on up and down the country, but apparantly not at Selhurst park.

Almost passing uncommented on, is that Millwall got fined £7,500 for Liverpool fans ripping out seats and chucking them on the pitch.

The Crux of the matter is covered by The Telegraph...



I think they have the time wrong, it was early in first half. probably 7 or 8 minutes in.

So one person committing "non-sequential booing" (do they mean monkey noises ?) which was not heard on the day and only checked when a professional scouse agitator (Peter Etherington) who was not at the match organised an e-mail campagin and still could only be heard when they messed with the tape digitally has resulted in a £25,000 fine for Millwall FC and the threat of a ground closure!

Go and winge somewhere else mate, we're not interested.

Riccardo
08-06-2005, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Cleon
And I recall Palace singing "did the Doctor kill your mum" to Manchester City fans.

Pretty sure that was to Stockport County fans Cleon the Warrior.

Riccardo
08-06-2005, 08:57 AM
Did Millwall ever get fined for throwing about 20 odd seats into the Holmesdale the other year ?


Sympathy for Millwall ? I'd rather have sympathy for the devil.

Jack Regan
08-06-2005, 09:27 AM
Did Millwall get fined for throwing a lit firework at Richard Shaw at Selhurst Park about 10 or so years ago?

Scum. I hope they get closed down.

ANDYEAGLE
08-06-2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
Thank you GazzaM for your post which contains a lot of independent material which all says to me that this decision by the FA is an absolute bloody scandal.

And what I say to any Palace fans who can't see that is that it's scandalous is the next time a Premier team comes to Selhurst, and we have a shot which is handled on the line, and a follow up which crosses the line by two foot, but the refereee sees nothing and waves play on then DON'T BLOODY COMPLAIN.


Cant see the relevance of that. The fact it is Millwall, innocent or not we dont care. If someone commits ten crimes, gets away with them and gets done for something they may not of done it is called poetic justice.
In Millwalls case Sympathy? Ha Ha.

GazzaM
08-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Riccardo
Did Millwall ever get fined for throwing about 20 odd seats into the Holmesdale the other year ?


Sympathy for Millwall ? I'd rather have sympathy for the devil.

Originally posted by Jack Regan
Did Millwall get fined for throwing a lit firework at Richard Shaw at Selhurst Park about 10 or so years ago?

Scum. I hope they get closed down.

Actually the apt question would be, did YOU ever get fined for those incidents?

eagles #1
08-06-2005, 10:18 AM
Millwall, racist? Never!!! :rolleyes:


http://www.independentmillwall.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35996

LP
08-06-2005, 10:29 AM
Basically, do I feel contempt for the FA? the bias that they've shown towards Liverpool (Palace more than anyone know about this having been cheated out of a Uefa cup spot in 1991)? Do I think that Millwall have been set up here? The answer to all these questions is yes.

Trouble is do I feel any sympathy with Millwall? Absolutely not...as I said above you reap what you sow.

Had it been another club I'm sure there would be a lot more sympathy from fans on this site. But I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing this as poetic justice for the behaviour of Millwall fans at Selhurst in recent years which went completely unchecked by the authorities. In fact I actually remember US being locked in after that infamous game a few years back.

Heb 7:4
08-06-2005, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by eagles #1
Millwall, racist? Never!!! :rolleyes:


http://www.independentmillwall.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35996

Christ almighty, what a bunch of (rhymes with punts). But that's why it's even more important that the club don't get punished for racism when it didn't happen. Not all Millwall fans are right-wing "I'm so hard I'm in the NF" arseholes. There are more moderate and even left wing Millwall fans too. What I worry about is that if the club feels that it's going to be persecuted despite working hard to combat racism it won't bother, and if non-racist Millwall fans feel they are going to be labelled racists whatever they do they won't be inclined to try and help their club kick out racism. Amongst those that are trying to get rid of racism at Millwall unjust persecution will just breed resentment and apathy. All it does it makes it harder to get rid of racism, which at Millwall will only happen when Millwall fans themselves help their club to drive it out.

Riccardo
08-06-2005, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by GazzaM
Actually the apt question would be, did YOU ever get fined for those incidents?

:D :D :D

Exactly the same response as my Millwall mate when I asked him the same question. It's like an old episode of Doctor Who or the X Files, where mass brain washing occurs.


Well, I use the term 'brain' loosely :)

Swoop25
08-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by eagles #1
Millwall, racist? Never!!! :rolleyes:


http://www.independentmillwall.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35996


exactly. if you want to get a gauge of your typical Millwall fan is like (these ones have even learned to use computers) look no further.

they may have been treated a little unjustly this time but •••• 'em .
they deserve it.

Dario
08-06-2005, 03:08 PM
Typical boy called wolf syndrome. The one time they really did'nt do much and they got done. Shame as I don't like to see any of our feeder clubs on the brink :D