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View Full Version : Dowie: Divers should be punished


RickyB
29-03-2006, 01:57 PM
Just breaking on SSN, more soon.

RickyB
29-03-2006, 01:57 PM
piss, I've typo'd the subject :bash:

NO1FAN
29-03-2006, 01:58 PM
Edit quick

PalaceMonkey
29-03-2006, 01:59 PM
they shud be punished. I agree

Palaceboy222
29-03-2006, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by RickyB
Dowie: Divers shuld be punished interesting i will go and view but tbh everyone knows this!

RickyB
29-03-2006, 02:01 PM
yah, reporting this for completeness :)

RickyB
29-03-2006, 02:01 PM
ah, edit worked! :)

forsells no1 fan
29-03-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by PalaceMonkey
they shud be punished. I agree

Electric chair?

MATTY THE EAGLE
29-03-2006, 02:07 PM
AJ's ••••ed then ;)

Palaceboy222
29-03-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by MATTY THE EAGLE
AJ's ••••ed then ;) :D :p

RickyB
29-03-2006, 02:10 PM
:)

Cheeky...

Clapham Grand
29-03-2006, 02:12 PM
expect the journos riposte on AJ

Palaceboy222
29-03-2006, 02:14 PM
I think anyone who dives (and is caught by using TV replays after the game) should get a two match ban (and a straight red if their caught during the match resulting in a one match ban) It would soon stop it.

Beanie
29-03-2006, 02:15 PM
Divers should certainly be punished - but the problem is that too many people seem to think that if a player goes down it is either a) a foul or b) a dive. In fact most times a player goes down it is just part of the game. I well remember seeing a Liverpool player booked for a "dive" when he went down in the box. All he did was go down, rollover (once) and regain his feet (quite stylish actually!). No claim for a penalty, no writhing, just down, up and booked. What made it worse was he'd already been booked - so it so he was off. The speed some players run it doesn't take much to send them over, sure that is half AJs problem.

You will also find players who see a heavy tackle coming, and jump out of the way rather than take what could be a really nasty hit. That's only a problem if they then appeal - and even then sometime the guy was trying to flatten them and deserves to be pulled up even if he missed, hard to prove intent though.

Palaceboy222
29-03-2006, 02:20 PM
another problem is different people believe different things are dives, e.g. some players play for a foul, or wait for the contact aka AJ, and then allow themselves to fall down. For me this is NOT a dive but clever play.

Other players e.g Van Nis go down with NO contact in order to cheat the referee - there is no argument here - that is a dive,

But the rules need to state the grey area for them to really clamp down on it

Dillenger
29-03-2006, 02:23 PM
i think they should be forced to kiss david mellor on the mouth then watch fourteen hours of oliver stone films.

strawberry mivi
29-03-2006, 02:37 PM
Stop picking on divers. (PADI spit!!)
I hate fishermen - string 'em up i say.

nookiebear
29-03-2006, 03:14 PM
Torghelle? :)

Mr C
29-03-2006, 03:36 PM
My personal favourite was the stupid and ill-informed comment bit - a nice reference to Mr Steve Bruce who we must all remember is "not a quitter"

Beanie
29-03-2006, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Palaceboy222
I think anyone who dives (and is caught by using TV replays after the game) should get a two match ban (and a straight red if their caught during the match resulting in a one match ban) It would soon stop it.
My ideas on punishment -

During a game - booking

After a game - if the dive was "harmless" (ref missed it) - booking
. if the dive resulted in a free kick or penalty - one match ban.
. if the dive resulted directly in a goal (from free kick or penalty) - three match ban
. if the goal effected the result (lose to draw, draw to win) - five match ban PLUS the game awarded to opposition 3-0
All bans doubled for second offence IN A CAREER, trebled for third etc

I bet that would stop dives before next saturday.

I'd also send off any player who "waves a card" whether or not the ref decides the opponent warrented a card.

RickyB
29-03-2006, 03:53 PM
Didn't see the rest of this on SSN - did anyone catch it?

Strathclyde Eagle
29-03-2006, 04:01 PM
But, while Dowie has made his stance clear, he has blamed striker Andy Johnson being tarnished with a reputation for diving in the Championship as a problem for his promotion-chasing side.

He stated: "Andrew Johnson is the most honest player I have worked with and doesn't dive.

"Because of some ill-informed and stupid comments about him last season, he now doesn't get penalties. It's a fact."
Needed saying. Also mentions that Torghelle was fined for diving at Charlton last year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/teams/c/crystal_palace/4857898.stm

Baloo
29-03-2006, 04:02 PM
From the BBC website. Love the paragraph at the end. Are you listening, Flatnose?

Dowie urges bosses to fine divers

Dowie is not afraid to punish his players for diving
Crystal Palace boss Iain Dowie wants players guilty of diving to be punished by their own managers.
He said: "If there's a blatant dive and a player is feigning injury when there is no contact they should be fined.

"The managers have a responsibility for the behaviour of their players - although it is the referee who has to act on the pitch.

"When Sandor Torghelle dived against Charlton last season I told him it was unacceptable and he was fined for it."

Dowie added: "That was the right thing to do."

The diving debate is a hot topic after recent high-profile events, including Didier Drogba's apparent exaggerated reaction to a tackle against Manchester City last weekend.

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has claimed referees do not have enough of a deterrent at their disposal to deal with diving.

But, while Dowie has made his stance clear, he has blamed striker Andy Johnson being tarnished with a reputation for diving in the Championship as a problem for his promotion-chasing side.

He stated: "Andrew Johnson is the most honest player I have worked with and doesn't dive.

"Because of some ill-informed and stupid comments about him last season, he now doesn't get penalties. It's a fact."

[Edit: beaten to it by a whisker, SE!)

si1965
29-03-2006, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
After a game - if the dive was "harmless" (ref missed it) - booking
. if the dive resulted in a free kick or penalty - one match ban.
. if the dive resulted directly in a goal (from free kick or penalty) - three match ban
. if the goal effected the result (lose to draw, draw to win) - five match ban PLUS the game awarded to opposition 3-0
All bans doubled for second offence IN A CAREER, trebled for third etc.

The trouble with this is:
- who would do the analysis? The FA? An FA Panel? An Independent Fans forum? Sky/BBC?
- would TV replay's be sufficient to determine who was guilty and who innocent. How many games have you watched where even multiple camera angles have failed to resolve an incident.
- At the end of the day you are trying to assess a players intent based upon their actions and sometimes this is impossible. A player may genuinely fall over in the area (due to clumsiness or misfortune) with no intent but may be judged to be diving as a result. Perhaps football should adopt something from cricket here where a person cannot be given out unless the other side appeal - unless the player askes for a foul the ref should carry on with play.

hughff
29-03-2006, 09:07 PM
As for your second point si, if the camera shows contact - foul, if the camera shows no contact - no foul and if the camera doesn't show - no decision from analysis.

The cricket idea doesn't sound much like common sense to me.

Beanie
30-03-2006, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by si1965
The trouble with this is:
- who would do the analysis? The FA? An FA Panel? An Independent Fans forum? Sky/BBC?
- would TV replay's be sufficient to determine who was guilty and who innocent. How many games have you watched where even multiple camera angles have failed to resolve an incident.
- At the end of the day you are trying to assess a players intent based upon their actions and sometimes this is impossible. A player may genuinely fall over in the area (due to clumsiness or misfortune) with no intent but may be judged to be diving as a result. Perhaps football should adopt something from cricket here where a person cannot be given out unless the other side appeal - unless the player askes for a foul the ref should carry on with play.
Yes - that is the catch of course. I'd have a panel of recent ex-players making the decisions, they know far more about how the game works than anybody, perhaps an ex-ref on the rules side. If the evidence is inconclusive the player would have to have the benefit of the doubt, but cutting out the really blatent ones would be a start. As for intent - look at how the player reacts, if he just gets on with it it would be far less likely he dived in the first place, if he rolls around and appeals would imply more of an intention. I'd prefer to go entirely the opposite to cricket - an appeal tending to lead to no action, possibly even make it a bookable offence, unless the case in blatent. Leave it to the refs, at least for a while, and see how good a job they can do when players aren't trying to con them

Beanie
30-03-2006, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by hughff
As for your second point si, if the camera shows contact - foul, if the camera shows no contact - no foul and if the camera doesn't show - no decision from analysis.
Certainly - but no foul does not equal a dive. Avoiding a bad tackle should not be seen as an offence, even if the player can't keep their feet.

30-03-2006, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Dillenger
i think they should be forced to kiss david mellor on the mouth then watch fourteen hours of oliver stone films.

How would that deter the Brighton players?

:sob:

Away Day Eagle
30-03-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Brighton Bloke
How would that deter the Brighton players?

:sob:

BB Double Platinium :p :cool: :D

One of my favourite posters on here :eek: :eek:

IW_Eagle
30-03-2006, 08:45 AM
Todays Metro:

Iain Dowie "If there is a blatant dive and a player is feigning injury when there is no contact, they should be fined. When Sandor dived against Charlton last season, I told him it was unacceptable and he was fined for it"

CPFC Guy
30-03-2006, 08:46 AM
I'm guessing this is Dowie's attempt to remove AJ's diving label

IW_Eagle
30-03-2006, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by CPFC Guy
I'm guessing this is Dowie's attempt to remove AJ's diving label

Yeah, the rest of the Article

"That was the right thing to do. But Andrew Johnson is the most honest player I have worked with and doesnt dive. Becuase of some ill-informed comments about him last season he doesn't get penalties. Its a Fact"

Bounty_Killa
30-03-2006, 10:34 AM
The way the modern game has gone/going it's becoming an ever increasing part of the game.

-Fining players

-Not dealing with agents

-Cross cultural issues

An attractive club to play for/work with eh

:confused:

Tom's Old Man
30-03-2006, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Palaceboy222
I think anyone who dives (and is caught by using TV replays after the game) should get a two match ban (and a straight red if their caught during the match resulting in a one match ban) It would soon stop it.
Two match ban? Treble it and we might start getting somewhere.
I'm for it.

CHE
30-03-2006, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
My ideas on punishment -

During a game - booking

After a game - if the dive was "harmless" (ref missed it) - booking
. if the dive resulted in a free kick or penalty - one match ban.
. if the dive resulted directly in a goal (from free kick or penalty) - three match ban
. if the goal effected the result (lose to draw, draw to win) - five match ban PLUS the game awarded to opposition 3-0
All bans doubled for second offence IN A CAREER, trebled for third etc

I bet that would stop dives before next saturday.

I'd also send off any player who "waves a card" whether or not the ref decides the opponent warrented a card.

Presumably you would also extend the same punishments for any foul, handball, stealing yards at a throw-in or free kick or anyone who is offside?

GrayP41ace
30-03-2006, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by si1965
The trouble with this is:
- who would do the analysis? The FA? An FA Panel? An Independent Fans forum? Sky/BBC?
- would TV replay's be sufficient to determine who was guilty and who innocent. How many games have you watched where even multiple camera angles have failed to resolve an incident.
- At the end of the day you are trying to assess a players intent based upon their actions and sometimes this is impossible. A player may genuinely fall over in the area (due to clumsiness or misfortune) with no intent but may be judged to be diving as a result. Perhaps football should adopt something from cricket here where a person cannot be given out unless the other side appeal - unless the player askes for a foul the ref should carry on with play.

You wouldn't need a panel, call their bluff, any player who would attempt to dive after being told "if you dive you will get a five game ban and your club will pay your wages for 5 weeks direct to the club you cheated on!!"

Just a shame Palace can't play Chelsea every week, we'd be rich I tell thee!! :D

The EEEAAAGGGLLLEEE!!!
30-03-2006, 12:53 PM
The best way to punish a diver is to cut his air line.

Beanie
30-03-2006, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by CHE
Presumably you would also extend the same punishments for any foul, handball, stealing yards at a throw-in or free kick or anyone who is offside?
Ah - no real contra agruemnet so we go for the ridiculous!! Let's pretend they are "similar". Fouls and handballs are rarely intentional and a reasonable part of the game already reasonably dealt with (apart perhaps for some of the more cynical hackings that happen). Stealing a yard or two is more a perceived benfit than a real one, making the play restart on the exact blade of grass is probably an advantage to the offending side as it give time to regroup, I'd be quite happy to allow a quick restart from anywhere within reason. Offside is also rarely intentional and frequently unconscious. Diving on the other hand is a premeditated attempt to con a free kick or penalty, gain a clear unwarrented advantage and/or get a player booked or sent off. It can't be accidental and is totally avoidable but at the moment the benefits of being successful far outweight the "cost" of failing. Until that balance is shifted the cheats will continue to have a go.

Radders
30-03-2006, 01:00 PM
Wee on the divers!

Chaddy12
30-03-2006, 02:21 PM
**COUGH Wayne Andrews COUGH** :D