Sky, The FA & Police Killing Derbies [Archive]

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gjtango

09-04-2006, 02:22 PM

Don't think this has been picked up on before. Now we all know the reasons why the football league, FA and Police have in recent times decided to move derby matches to early KO's and to Sundays in an attempt to stop crowd trouble in and around grounds before and after matches. In all fairness to them, whenever there are derbies be it on a Sunday at 11am or whatever, fans should be up for the occasion, but I carn't help but feel that its putting off football supporters and immensely dampening the occasion that a derby match brings with it, being at a 3 o'clock Saturday KO or an evening KO. It seems to me that the FA Police e.t.c are trying to take some of the entertainment away from the fans that the big build up to a day brings, and also make it harder for everyone in terms of getting up early to travel to places e.t.c

Today Watford played Luton at 11am, 15K turned up, Villa played WBA at 12am, Chelsea West Ham at 12am, Boro Newcastle at 3pm. I also remember this season the Norwich Ipswich derby being at 11am on a Sunday, and even us vs Brighton at 1.30pm on a Sunday with dodgy transport that day.

I for one feel that the authorities are taking the piss with this and should leave the games at times when one can get a real feel for the big derby game. Its out of order IMO.

Just wanted to express my views on these stupid KO for derby matches. :hmph:

pallet

09-04-2006, 02:27 PM

From a WBA supporting mate,due to Police corncerns they are no longer allowed to play Wolves in an evening fixture.

geeza

09-04-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by gjtango
Don't think this has been picked up on before. Now we all know the reasons why the football league, FA and Police have in recent times decided to move derby matches to early KO's and to Sundays in an attempt to stop crowd trouble in and around grounds before and after matches. In all fairness to them, whenever there are derbies be it on a Sunday at 11am or whatever, fans should be up for the occasion, but I carn't help but feel that its putting off football supporters and immensely dampening the occasion that a derby match brings with it, being at a 3 o'clock Saturday KO or an evening KO. It seems to me that the FA Police e.t.c are trying to take some of the entertainment away from the fans that the big build up to a day brings, and also make it harder for everyone in terms of getting up early to travel to places e.t.c

Today Watford played Luton at 11am, 15K turned up, Villa played WBA at 12am, Chelsea West Ham at 12am, Boro Newcastle at 3pm. I also remember this season the Norwich Ipswich derby being at 11am on a Sunday, and even us vs Brighton at 1.30pm on a Sunday with dodgy transport that day.

I for one feel that the authorities are taking the piss with this and should leave the games at times when one can get a real feel for the big derby game. Its out of order IMO.

Just wanted to express my views on these stupid KO for derby matches. :hmph:

As I said on the other thread Football is finished. Sky, Police and the Premiership have f*cked Football for good. Next time we play Brighton at home will be sunday at 11am. FACT. Reason for this? Trouble at the night fixture last year pissed up louts on the piss from 11am, hence the trouble in the pubs at 6pm, trouble in the ground and trouble after the game.
Football these days is all about big clubs, sky tv, jester hats and family days. Sorry not for me I'm afraid.

limited_edition

09-04-2006, 02:38 PM

I remember last season or maybe this when I think Man City played Everton at Eastlands at 11.15 on a Sunday ! That was ridiculous. Now, I don't think Man City and Everton have had a history of problems.

gjtango

09-04-2006, 02:43 PM

geeza

09-04-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by limited_edition
Now, I don't think Man City and Everton have had a history of problems.

:rolleyes:

Are you being serious?

PeterH

10-04-2006, 03:13 PM

Some is on police concerns the rest is generally TV. Why should we play on Friday evenings or Monday evenings for that matter. Saturday 3pm is when weekend footie should be played. But we all have to pay the piper and when the piper pays a billion to cover football and little Waynes mother wants him to earn 15,000 a week, so he can buy her a big house, then we all need to get up early and stay off the beer.

GUCCI Eagle

10-04-2006, 03:17 PM

It doesn't really bother me.....

PhilD

10-04-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by gjtango
Today Watford played Luton at 11am, 15K turned up

Sorry to be pedantic, but it was actually at 12, still stupid, but not quite as bad as 11. I agree with everything you say though.

I went to the game and there wasn't a great atmosphere, partly because of the early kick off and partly because Watford/the Police decided that Luton could only have half they away end and that the other half had to be kept shut. As a result over 10% of what is quite a small ground (capacity of less than 20k with large parts of the main stand closed for safety reasons) was left completely empty.

There were a fair few gaps in the home areas too, so whether Watford could have filled that area is doubtful, but Luton certainly could have done.

There has been trouble at that fixture before, but Hertfordshire Police seem to think it's Celtic vs Rangers, Villa vs Brum, River Plate vs Boca, Galatasaray vs Fenerbahce etc all rolled into one.

1f73

pete eagle

10-04-2006, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by limited_edition
I remember last season or maybe this when I think Man City played Everton at Eastlands at 11.15 on a Sunday ! That was ridiculous. Now, I don't think Man City and Everton have had a history of problems.

I remember at the time another reason being behind this and for the life of me I can't seem to remember, but it wasn't anything to do with the Police or Sky.

Psyatika

10-04-2006, 04:48 PM

Well they probably realise that 1) police would be stretched if they had to deal with games other than the "big" derby at the same time, and 2) people outside of the town in question want to watch the derby without missing heir own team.

It might kill the mood at the derby, but it's better than the fans killing their opponents at the derby!

selhurstparkflyer

10-04-2006, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by geeza
As I said on the other thread Football is finished. Sky, Police and the Premiership have f*cked Football for good. Next time we play Brighton at home will be sunday at 11am. FACT. Reason for this? Trouble at the night fixture last year pissed up louts on the piss from 11am, hence the trouble in the pubs at 6pm, trouble in the ground and trouble after the game.
Football these days is all about big clubs, sky tv, jester hats and family days. Sorry not for me I'm afraid.

A football game is scheduled early due to the threat of trouble in the pubs and ground both before and after the game and you say its not for you.

That is as maybe but most people go to football to watch the match. And if people with your attitude are deterred from going then, contrary to your prognosis, attendances are likely to be enhanced not hindered.

Thanet Eagle

10-04-2006, 07:17 PM

Its all part of the corporate sanitisation of our national sport.

Sir.S.C Remembered

10-04-2006, 08:40 PM

The police moving games for safety reasons is entirely acceptable but Sky are taking over football and having way too big an influence of things like fixture scheduling despite the recent announcement about the new system that will come in. Whilst it is good for the fan sitting at home with Sky (which I have - a neccessary evil if your a football fan) it has gone beyond the levek which is good for the game... There are many examples of totally undervaluing the fans who attend games and merely fitting it in for Sky sake and I think it is disgusting (even though I like going to Selhurst on a Friday night!) and shouldn't be allowed.......... Then again TV money represents alot more than ticket income (which is still an important income especially for lower clubs) and merchandise etc is very high for the poweerful clubs. See Real Madrid's income from last year when they took over Man Utd for the club with the highest income. They are the biggest example of a football business... As mentioned have some research on this if anyone wants it.

Halftime Gold

11-04-2006, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
The police moving games for safety reasons is entirely acceptable but Sky are taking over football and having way too big an influence of things like fixture scheduling despite the recent announcement about the new system that will come in. Whilst it is good for the fan sitting at home with Sky (which I have - a neccessary evil if your a football fan) it has gone beyond the levek which is good for the game... There are many examples of totally undervaluing the fans who attend games and merely fitting it in for Sky sake and I think it is disgusting (even though I like going to Selhurst on a Friday night!) and shouldn't be allowed.......... Then again TV money represents alot more than ticket income (which is still an important income especially for lower clubs) and merchandise etc is very high for the poweerful clubs. See Real Madrid's income from last year when they took over Man Utd for the club with the highest income. They are the biggest example of a football business... As mentioned have some research on this if anyone wants it.

I don't believe thats true in the UK, I remember seeing that Man Utd still make almost 50% of their income from match day sales in those "Real become richest club" artictles with TV money brining in something like 25%.

Sir.S.C Remembered

11-04-2006, 08:45 AM

I cannot remember Man Utd's accounts but Real Madrid made something like 24% from ticket sales, and most of the rest came from TV money and merchandise (sorry I am going a bit off topic with this as my research was about Intellectual Property Rights which include the clubs merchandise as protected trademarks etc, and I was making referrence to the goodwill in their name...). The percentages for Real Madrid suggest that they are more of a business than a football club as they rely upon TV money and building up their business brand name by buying big players... I've gone off the point again, apologies.

Halftime Gold

11-04-2006, 10:34 AM

Real get alot more TV money than Man Utd(£60-70 million for league games compaired to £30-35 million) because Spainish teams sell their rights individually.

Ian of Chatham

11-04-2006, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
A football game is scheduled early due to the threat of trouble in the pubs and ground both before and after the game and you say its not for you.

That is as maybe but most people go to football to watch the match. And if people with your attitude are deterred from going then, contrary to your prognosis, attendances are likely to be enhanced not hindered.
Agree 100 percent. Sorry Geeza but the only people who are responsible for derby games being moved early on police instructions are the idiots who wanted to or actually did punch lumps out of opposing supporters. No one else.

Farnboro' Eagle

11-04-2006, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by pete eagle
I remember at the time another reason being behind this and for the life of me I can't seem to remember, but it wasn't anything to do with the Police or Sky.

wasn't it to maximise exposure in China/the far east?

Diggers digs in?

11-04-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Ian of Chatham
Agree 100 percent. Sorry Geeza but the only people who are responsible for derby games being moved early on police instructions are the idiots who wanted to or actually did punch lumps out of opposing supporters. No one else.

Exactly.

abe

Reps AJ

11-04-2006, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by geeza
As I said on the other thread Football is finished. Sky, Police and the Premiership have f*cked Football for good. Next time we play Brighton at home will be sunday at 11am. FACT. Reason for this? Trouble at the night fixture last year pissed up louts on the piss from 11am, hence the trouble in the pubs at 6pm, trouble in the ground and trouble after the game.
Football these days is all about big clubs, sky tv, jester hats and family days. Sorry not for me I'm afraid.

Hmm... I read that as you want to go to games where everyone is pissed up and fighting, rather than games where people are well behaved and enjoying the football

Reps AJ

11-04-2006, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by PhilD
There has been trouble at that fixture before, but Hertfordshire Police seem to think it's Celtic vs Rangers, Villa vs Brum, River Plate vs Boca, Galatasaray vs Fenerbahce etc all rolled into one.

You mean the cup game with fighting in Watford before the game and running battles between the fans in the ground?

Reps AJ

11-04-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by gjtango
It seems to me that the FA Police e.t.c are trying to take some of the entertainment away from the fans that the big build up to a day brings, and also make it harder for everyone in terms of getting up early to travel to places e.t.c

If by entertainment you mean fans out on the lash for hours before the game then yes, that is exactly what the police are trying to stop.

In terms of travel, you're talking about local derbies and I can't see how it would be too much of an issue for the majority of fans (excluding the likes of you and me who live in Leeds, of course)

pete eagle

11-04-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Farnboro' Eagle
wasn't it to maximise exposure in China/the far east?

It could be, thinking about it now.

There is also the fact that Everton were in Europe at the time, I think they were in the UEFA Cup.