View Full Version : Palace close to double deal
Martin H
29-07-2009, 04:34 PM
probably very obvious but ok... if noone else will ask... what does it mean?
That we will have a
stern Simon up front?
A good signing on a 12-month deal - probably the best we can hope for.
Adlerhorst
29-07-2009, 04:50 PM
Makes sense for us.
Not excited but not disappointed either.
Which this summer is a plus.
gadford4th
29-07-2009, 04:51 PM
"If you supply the ammunition he scores goals.
:eek::D:D:D:D:D:hi::hi::hi::(:sob:
Crunchie
29-07-2009, 04:57 PM
Makes sense for us.
Not excited but not disappointed either.
Which this summer is a plus.
My feeling exactly.
Goodish, oldish, player free on a one year deal. Sensible.
montstar
29-07-2009, 04:57 PM
Breaking news: John completes Eagles switch
Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 16:51
Comment on this story
Stern John has completed his protracted move to Crystal Palace.
The Trinidan and Tobago striker rejected a contract extension at Southampton before agreeing to join the Eagles.
John's move ends Neil Warnock's summer long search for a centre-forward.
The 32-year-old has signed a 12 month contract at SE25.
For the full story see Friday's Advertiser.
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/latestsport/Breaking-news-John-completes-Eagles-switch/article-1206135-detail/article.html
cdm61
29-07-2009, 04:59 PM
That we will have a
stern Simon up front?
Sorry....John Thomas
Ian Hart
29-07-2009, 05:08 PM
The best football we have played during Warnock's two seasons was undoubtedly towards the end of the season before last. Once Kuqi fell out of favour and Scowcroft got injured, he was forced to use Morrison as his central striker. I don't think for a moment that Warnock liked the idea, but circumstances forced it on him. And the result quickly became apparent. It wasn't that Morrison played particularly outstandingly, but the fact that he was clearly not a physical presence persuaded the team (and presumably the Manager) to stop lumping high balls upfield. The football improved significantly as a result.
I'm hopeful that the same effect might arise out of the Stern John signing. It's not that he's a great striker (although his goalscoring record has always been decent) It's that he's not a big, physical striker, so continuing with the tactics of lump and hoof upfield will clearly be pointless, and I'm hopeful we will benefit as a result. Those that have commented they would prefer Lee need to bear in mind that (through no fault of his own) if you have someone like him as the fulcrum of the attack, hoofing upfield will continue to be the tactics.
Do you really want that?
Kirby
29-07-2009, 05:09 PM
So providing nobody leaves, we're probably looking at:
Speroni
Clyne McCarthy Fonte Hill
Ambrose Derry Danns
Sears John Moses
with Carle and Scannell fighting for places.....right?
bigend1
29-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Sorry....John Thomas
assumed it was a play on names but didnt mean anything to me. googled now and it would seem quite the common phrase. not sure where i have been the last 27 years but somehow managed to avoid this entirely. picture of innocence me! :angel: :rolleyes:
Adlerhorst
29-07-2009, 05:16 PM
assumed it was a play on names but didnt mean anything to me. googled now and it would seem quite the common phrase. not sure where i have been the last 27 years but somehow managed to avoid this entirely. picture of innocence me! :angel: :rolleyes:
bless :)
Celestial Empire
29-07-2009, 05:18 PM
Palace has a strong Afro-Carib tradition and lots of Afro-Carib players, so John might find Palace a more comfortable place to work. Saints don't have that tradition.
IMHO, the risk is that he plays well for a couple of months, then starts getting injuries - that seems to have been his pattern in recent years.
Anyway, welcome and best of luck Mr John.
I hope NW now concentrates on getting an experienced loan striker in later (Beattie or O'Connor would do nicely ;) )
NW is well paid, but is doing a great job for us in near impossible circumstances - much appreciated.:p
Crunchie
29-07-2009, 05:25 PM
The best football we have played during Warnock's two seasons was undoubtedly towards the end of the season before last. Once Kuqi fell out of favour and Scowcroft got injured, he was forced to use Morrison as his central striker. I don't think for a moment that Warnock liked the idea, but circumstances forced it on him. And the result quickly became apparent. It wasn't that Morrison played particularly outstandingly, but the fact that he was clearly not a physical presence persuaded the team (and presumably the Manager) to stop lumping high balls upfield. The football improved significantly as a result.
I'm hopeful that the same effect might arise out of the Stern John signing. It's not that he's a great striker (although his goalscoring record has always been decent) It's that he's not a big, physical striker, so continuing with the tactics of lump and hoof upfield will clearly be pointless, and I'm hopeful we will benefit as a result. Those that have commented they would prefer Lee need to bear in mind that (through no fault of his own) if you have someone like him as the fulcrum of the attack, hoofing upfield will continue to be the tactics.
Do you really want that?
I are right and i hope your're right for the future. If we do carry on playing 4-3-3, then the target man mentality has to be dropped and only to be used (if at all) in a 4-4-2.
Still would prefer a 4-4-2 though. Shame the swap deal for Lee and Hoolahan seems to be off. :(
1f61
ROCK'N'ROLL
29-07-2009, 05:26 PM
So providing nobody leaves, we're probably looking at:
Speroni
Clyne McCarthy Fonte Hill
Ambrose Derry Danns
Sears John Moses
with Carle and Scannell fighting for places.....right?
On paper that is now looking a pretty good championship side with good(ish) balance.
Martin H
29-07-2009, 05:26 PM
Sorry....John Thomas
No never . . . . . . .
Martin H
29-07-2009, 05:27 PM
So providing nobody leaves, we're probably looking at:
Speroni
Clyne McCarthy Fonte Hill
Ambrose Derry Danns
Sears John Moses
with Carle and Scannell fighting for places.....right?
And Davis
kolinkins
29-07-2009, 05:29 PM
Excellent stuff. This could be the making of Scannell and Moses as well.
Kirby
29-07-2009, 05:40 PM
And Davis
Providing he signs yeah. Hope he's not an automatic first choice.
So providing nobody leaves, we're probably looking at:
Speroni
Clyne McCarthy Fonte Hill
Ambrose Derry Danns
Sears John Moses
with Carle and Scannell fighting for places.....right?
or
Speroni
Butts Lawrence Davis Hill
Carle Erte Derry
Lee Fonte John :o
palacemaniac
29-07-2009, 06:02 PM
WELCOME JOHN, I'm quite happy with all of our summer aquisitions given our "limited" (non existent) budget. Good work Mr Warnock. (I dread to think what Taylor would have done in a similar situation)
GrahamS
29-07-2009, 06:12 PM
Claude Davis is on the verge of joining Crystal Palace after agreeing personal terms.
Derby County have agreed a deal to release the Jamaica international from his Pride Park contract - which still has two years left to run.
And Eagles boss Neil Warnock - a long-term admirer of Davis - has been quick to snap up the central defender on a free transfer.
Warnock told the Advertiser: "We've agreed a deal for Davis to come here.
"What I like about Claude is that he knows how to look after himself - he is physically very strong."
However, it is understood Davis has to re-apply for a work permit which takes around three to four weeks to process.
For the full story see Friday's Advertiser
PeterH
29-07-2009, 06:38 PM
Actually, it is hell of a bonus that Speroni is still with us. That is a huge plus taking into the new season.
Adlerhorst
29-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Warnock told the Advertiser: "What I like about Claude is that he knows how to look after himself - he is physically very strong."Never knew strong but limited players were your thing Neil.
Il Padrino
30-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Not quite sure that your post makes much sense at all.:confused:
Sorry, I was posting from a crap phone which refreshes itself at bizarre moments and wasn't around yesterday.
The gist of the point was that how can someone be in charge of a game when they are unaware of what is being coached to players being taught at a higher level than PE class at school? It goes back to that old argument about whether referees should be allowed to do it when they have not ever really played
I saw the link you put up which is from a different angle to where I was sat that game and it does look a bit naughty from there. From where I was, he had his arm slightly raised to keep the space around him - something we were taught to do as teenagers.
Beanie
30-07-2009, 10:05 AM
However, it is understood Davis has to re-apply for a work permit which takes around three to four weeks to process.
It took Adebayor a couple of days - what's the difference!!
Polish Pete
30-07-2009, 10:06 AM
It took Adebayor a couple of days - what's the difference!!
Davis is better
Beckenham Boy
30-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Derby defender poised for Palace
Derby County defender Claude Davis is expected to sign for Crystal Palace once he reaches an agreement to terminate his contract with the Rams.
The Jamaica international, who has two years left on his deal at Pride Park, will join the Eagles subject to passing a medical and gaining a work permit.
Davis, 30, was signed by former Rams manager Billy Davies for £3m from Sheffield United in July 2007.
Davis spent the final three months of last season on loan at Crystal Palace.
dannyboy1807
30-07-2009, 12:16 PM
It took Adebayor a couple of days - what's the difference!!
about 25 million
Palace has a strong Afro-Carib tradition and lots of Afro-Carib players
I assume you mean Moses and a few of the youth players? As first team players go, I don't think there are any players, except Moses born in Africa or the Caribbean and Moses is probably leaving :confused:
Tisme
30-07-2009, 01:06 PM
or
Speroni
Butts Lawrence Davis Hill
Carle Erte Derry
Lee Fonte John :o
What a team!! Champions by christmas
glaziers fan
30-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Excellent stuff. This could be the making of Scannell and Moses as well.
At another club?
Oh south london
30-07-2009, 01:47 PM
Welcome John and possibly Davies if he joins.
2575
Shipp Ahoy!
30-07-2009, 06:40 PM
It isnt completely.
If referees are not aware of some of the most basic coaching techniques - such as raising your arm defending when a set piece - how can they be in charge of the game?
You get taught to go in an oppositions wall and put your thumb up someone's arse - whats the punishment for that? A place on the sex offender's list??
Funny you should say this considering both myself and Beatleboy (qualified reff's) are also or have been football coaches.
Not exactly unsuccessful to that end either.
Beatleboy
30-07-2009, 07:19 PM
Sorry, I was posting from a crap phone which refreshes itself at bizarre moments and wasn't around yesterday.
The gist of the point was that how can someone be in charge of a game when they are unaware of what is being coached to players being taught at a higher level than PE class at school? It goes back to that old argument about whether referees should be allowed to do it when they have not ever really played
I saw the link you put up which is from a different angle to where I was sat that game and it does look a bit naughty from there. From where I was, he had his arm slightly raised to keep the space around him - something we were taught to do as teenagers.
What worried me most about that clip though was that the referee didn't appear to see it, or appreciate how serious it was,despite it being in front of him.
I bet he got hammered by his Assessor at the match!
Celestial Empire
30-07-2009, 08:13 PM
What worried me most about that clip though was that the referee didn't appear to see it, or appreciate how serious it was,despite it being in front of him.
I bet he got hammered by his Assessor at the match!
Read any good books lately ?:rolleyes:
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 08:56 AM
Funny you should say this considering both myself and Beatleboy (qualified reff's) are also or have been football coaches.
Not exactly unsuccessful to that end either.
How far did you get as a player? I'm talking about being coached for four years at county level and non league by ex pros. And that is the point, you play at a higher level, you get coached differently by people who have made a living in the game. You (a person, not you personally) can become a referee or coach without ever making it into your school team FFS. And then one day you'll ref a game where the players have been played and taught at a level you never made it too and you will ruin it for everyone because you blow up for things they are being taught on a daily basis
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 09:06 AM
What worried me most about that clip though was that the referee didn't appear to see it, or appreciate how serious it was,despite it being in front of him.
I bet he got hammered by his Assessor at the match!
I looked again last night and agree completely, it was nasty. He has a little look before the arm goes up, which makes it intentional. The angle I saw it from at the game I saw he had his arm up and he was looking away before Johnson came in so it looked like a horible accident. You were right, vicious foul.
But.... you still get taught to put your arms up at corners so people can't climb over you! :D
Shipp Ahoy!
31-07-2009, 10:57 AM
How far did you get as a player? I'm talking about being coached for four years at county level and non league by ex pros. And that is the point, you play at a higher level, you get coached differently by people who have made a living in the game. You (a person, not you personally) can become a referee or coach without ever making it into your school team FFS. And then one day you'll ref a game where the players have been played and taught at a level you never made it too and you will ruin it for everyone because you blow up for things they are being taught on a daily basis
I love it, the argument that in order to be a top reff you have to have played at the top level total bullshit.
The number of times the like of Andy Gray spiel endless crap demonstrating a total cluelessness! The idea that you to be a top official you have to understand what goes on when your playing is crap. The laws of the game are what they are, yes a certain amount of discretion comes into it and I apply this whenever I am reffing.
Quite frankly your reckoning that officials who have not played or been coached by someone at that level are not capable of making this judgements is offensive.
Also, are you claiming that what players are taught to do are always in line with the laws of the game??? Dougie Freedman himself told me once that he would rake his studs down the back of a players heel when he would go in for a standing challenge, something he may have come up as an experienced pro but hardly within the laws of the game.
Shipp Ahoy!
31-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Oh and p.s. Il Pad, Beatleboy and myself have reffed Palace/Charlton Reserves in the past and there were certainly no complaints so that would seem to dispel your reasoning there.
Friskey
31-07-2009, 11:01 AM
I love it, the argument that in order to be a top reff you have to have played at the top level total bullshit.
The number of times the like of Andy Gray spiel endless crap demonstrating a total cluelessness! The idea that you to be a top official you have to understand what goes on when your playing is crap. The laws of the game are what they are, yes a certain amount of discretion comes into it and I apply this whenever I am reffing.
If you could spell ref it would probably help your case. :p
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 11:17 AM
I love it, the argument that in order to be a top reff you have to have played at the top level total bullshit.
The number of times the like of Andy Gray spiel endless crap demonstrating a total cluelessness! The idea that you to be a top official you have to understand what goes on when your playing is crap. The laws of the game are what they are, yes a certain amount of discretion comes into it and I apply this whenever I am reffing.
Quite frankly your reckoning that officials who have not played or been coached by someone at that level are not capable of making this judgements is offensive.
Also, are you claiming that what players are taught to do are always in line with the laws of the game??? Dougie Freedman himself told me once that he would rake his studs down the back of a players heel when he would go in for a standing challenge, something he may have come up as an experienced pro but hardly within the laws of the game.
Its not bullshit - how can you be in charge of something you've no experience of? Could you read a book about boxing and stand between Tyson and Holyfield? Of course not. It would be like giving someone HGV driving lessons when all you've driven is a mini.
Look at the amount of games that are ruined by stupid decisions by referees who do not understand what is going on because all they have is a summer course. There is a saying in medical circles that those who can't pratice, teach and there are huge similarities with refs who could never kick a ball straight taking up the whistle just to have something to do with the game. If thats what they want to do, fine, but stick to Under12 games where they won't screw things up for everyone else.
I didn't say things you get taught at a higher level are all legal, but you sound shocked that players rake their heels when standing. Someone with any experience in the game would know this is a common practice. So is hair pulling - Peter Crouch did it in a World Cup finals and the goal was given. If these refs had any other experience of playing outside of their school PE lessons they would know how to look out for these things.
You and you old man might be great refs, I don't know, but you ask anyone who has played at a decent level what they would prefer, a ref who played or one who didnt and it will always be the former. If it causes offence, I couldnt really care less, because I know I'm right
211b
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Oh and p.s. Il Pad, Beatleboy and myself have reffed Palace/Charlton Reserves in the past and there were certainly no complaints so that would seem to dispel your reasoning there.
Good for you. But if I was involved in a game where the ref did not know to look out for stud dragging the manager would have taken us of the pitch :p
Jason
31-07-2009, 01:05 PM
And then one day you'll ref a game where the players have been played and taught at a level you never made it too and you will ruin it for everyone because you blow up for things they are being taught on a daily basis
Sorry, but I can't help feeling that this is more of an argument for improving the standard of coaching (in the context of what people are taught being within the rules), than for criticizing refs for enforcing those rules.
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 01:26 PM
Sorry, but I can't help feeling that this is more of an argument for improving the standard of coaching (in the context of what people are taught being within the rules), than for criticizing refs for enforcing those rules.
I'm not sure though. I was talking about coaching received when playing for the county team when at school and the youth set up of two non-league sides after that. In those, the standard is higher so you get coached differently. Are you saying that everyone should get exactly the same level of coaching so the ref can keep up? Surely a more logical answer is to encourage more people with playing experience to become refs and not let people take charge of games that are played at a standard they are unfamiliar with.
In most professions taking charge of something you have not particpated in would rightly be considered madness. Some of them can do it, I have no doubt about it, but then you have ones that boast what great refs they are but it takes a professional footballer to tell them that if you are behind someone its a normal practice to run your studs down their achillies.
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 01:30 PM
S (in the context of what people are taught being within the rules).
And if referees had experienced this kinda coaching they would know what to look for!
Jason
31-07-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm not sure though. I was talking about coaching received when playing for the county team when at school and the youth set up of two non-league sides after that. In those, the standard is higher so you get coached differently. Are you saying that everyone should get exactly the same level of coaching so the ref can keep up? Surely a more logical answer is to encourage more people with playing experience to become refs and not let people take charge of games that are played at a standard they are unfamiliar with.
In most professions taking charge of something you have not particpated in would rightly be considered madness. Some of them can do it, I have no doubt about it, but then you have ones that boast what great refs they are but it takes a professional footballer to tell them that if you are behind someone its a normal practice to run your studs down their achillies.
All true, but I think I probably didn't make my point clearly enough (or perhaps misunderstood yours) You said that refs were ruining games by blowing up for things that players at a high level were routinely taught to do. My understanding of that was that your vew was because players were taught to do certain things, refs shouldn't blow up for them.
Surely though it's the case that if refs routinely blew up for infringments of the rules that were taught by coaches, then coaches would soon stop teaching them as they would become counter productive on account of the number of fouls that would be conceded?
Celestial Empire
31-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Ahem!
This is a thread about a "double signing" in the transfer forum.
Could you bureaucrats take your mind numbing discussion off to an appropriate location please ?:bash:
Jason
31-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Ahem!
This is a thread about a "double signing" in the transfer forum.
Could you bureaucrats take your mind numbing discussion off to an appropriate location please ?:bash:
Where's the sticking your tongue out smiley when you need it
Celestial Empire
31-07-2009, 01:53 PM
Where's the sticking your tongue out smiley when you need it
That's red card talk mate. :rolleyes: ;)
Il Padrino
31-07-2009, 02:00 PM
All true, but I think I probably didn't make my point clearly enough (or perhaps misunderstood yours) You said that refs were ruining games by blowing up for things that players at a high level were routinely taught to do. My understanding of that was that your vew was because players were taught to do certain things, refs shouldn't blow up for them.
Surely though it's the case that if refs routinely blew up for infringments of the rules that were taught by coaches, then coaches would soon stop teaching them as they would become counter productive on account of the number of fouls that would be conceded?
I think if referees had more idea about some of the things kids are taught they would be able to clamp down, because in all honestly most of them are infringements. That would no doubt be a good thing and maybe cvoaching methods would change.
Think of it this way, you are constantly getting tour achillies scraped, then a thumb up your arse, then your toes trodden on and then your armpit hair wrenched out. Sooner or later if the ref hasn’t blown (because he doesn’t know he has to watch for this sort of thing) your going to go studs up into the blokes ankle arnt you? And that ruins everything…
Anyway, celestial is right.
Davis and John eh? :lux:
Beanie
31-07-2009, 02:10 PM
I think if referees had more idea about some of the things kids are taught they would be able to clamp down, because in all honestly most of them are infringements. That would no doubt be a good thing and maybe cvoaching methods would change.
Think of it this way, you are constantly getting tour achillies scraped, then a thumb up your arse, then your toes trodden on and then your armpit hair wrenched out. Sooner or later if the ref hasn’t blown (because he doesn’t know he has to watch for this sort of thing) your going to go studs up into the blokes ankle arnt you? And that ruins everything…
This is true. Most ex-players could give 15 years as refs if the age limit was changed and they KNOW what is going on. Every sport has its dark arts and unless you've played it you have no idea. I used to do a bit of egg chasing in my youth, front row of the scrum - and believe me, unless you've been there you have no idea, and don't really want one. We should fast track ex-players and also use them to train refs about is actually happening and what is actually bad or dangerous. We should be getting the refs who can understand the game, not changing the game to suit the theory,
938
Shipp Ahoy!
31-07-2009, 03:28 PM
Il Pad experience comes through doing.
How could you argue a referee does not know what he is looking for if he has refereed countless games over many years? They HAVE the experience of DOING THAT JOB!
Similarly a footballer is not an experienced referee because he does a different job. They are likely to look out for things from their own experience but they will probably miss much more then an experienced referee.
Your own analagy is appropriate after all a footballer is exprienced at PLAYING a referee at REFEREEING.
Neckinger Eagle
31-07-2009, 03:42 PM
I cannot be bothered to trawl through all the recent threads about refereeing. Can somebody pease confirm for me whether or not Claude Davis has retired to become a referee?
Ifill Good
31-07-2009, 03:46 PM
I cannot be bothered to trawl through all the recent threads about refereeing. Can somebody pease confirm for me whether or not Claude Davis has retired to become a referee?
:D
I cannot be bothered to trawl through all the recent threads about refereeing. Can somebody pease confirm for me whether or not Claude Davis has retired to become a referee?
No, but, considering wrestling :o
DocSavage
31-07-2009, 04:15 PM
Welcome John and possibly Davies.
and not stern john and claude davies?
although i will name my next son "Possibly" a noble and all embracing title
"Welcome" John could be misleading
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