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ThisIsDoM
01-10-2009, 01:44 AM
CASH-STRAPPED Crystal Palace face eviction from *Selhurst Park after falling behind on their rent payments.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/101404/Palace-in-pain/

Asagaya_Eagle
01-10-2009, 02:00 AM
This one could run and run...

In all seriousness, it's an ideal opportunity for SJ (or some other investor) to come in and buy the ground at a distressed price.

hughff
01-10-2009, 02:03 AM
Bloody hell.

hughff
01-10-2009, 02:12 AM
SJ can't afford the rent or transfer fees. He certainly can't afford the ground. This is just bad, bad news.

palacelad1970
01-10-2009, 02:33 AM
THE DAILY STAR :hmph:

the kooch
01-10-2009, 03:20 AM
THE DAILY STAR :hmph:
I think the bloke who wrote it knows his stuff though.

CP Satellite
01-10-2009, 03:37 AM
If SJ has defaulted on his payments, presumably Palace are in no position to arrange a groundshare either with lack of funds.

There's only one route to go if this story is true. A...........

RDSdaEAGLE
01-10-2009, 04:38 AM
For ****s sake.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-409633/Jordan-buys-Selhurst-Park-12million.html#ixzz0Semlz7O7

"I have used the structure - unbeknownst to Ron, I suspect - to purchase the freehold, which we exchanged on Friday last week.

"It now puts me in a position in which I own the freehold, which is what I said would do for the club when I bought it six and a half years ago and goes to the heart of the plans of the football club having everything it needs in one place."

Good one, Simon...

cpfc4evandeva
01-10-2009, 06:03 AM
There's only one route to go if this story is true. A...........

Cocktail Party? :confused:

cpfc4evandeva
01-10-2009, 06:03 AM
Anyways, this is the Daily Star. I would take it with a large shovel of salt.

Fever Pitch
01-10-2009, 06:16 AM
And if we did get kicked out what is PWC going to do with this nice little piece of real estate

Edited by mods

Maximus Dowieus
01-10-2009, 06:21 AM
Anyways, this is the Daily Star. I would take it with a large shovel of salt.

Thats an obvious reply. Somehow, sadly, I dont think so - too much credible detail in the report. A case of no smoke without fire.

Always an Eagle
01-10-2009, 06:25 AM
Anyways, this is the Daily Star. I would take it with a large shovel of salt.

Yeah but I've got the tequila at the ready :sob:

Dorking .Eagle
01-10-2009, 06:27 AM
Potential housing land in Greater London is still worth a fortune even in the manner that you describe it Fever Pitch. Lok at how Arsenal have developed Highbury, even though they had to leave the pitch area open

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Clubs/Club%20Home/2009/2/26/1235684102497/Highbury-Square-001.jpg

IMO it's fast approaching a time where the Trust could do with getting their 'structures' in a ready state. Have they put their 'feelers' out with regard to potential new owners?

Now its much clearer why painting the roof red and blue stripes is unlikely to be on Jordan's 'to do' list. Paying the rent first would be the best priority.

Big Blue Eagle
01-10-2009, 06:43 AM
The writer is a regular reporter on Palace for the local rags - SLP, Adder etc so presumably knows something. However, my guess is that as always there is a bit of artistic licence. My initial thought is that this is a combination of typical Jordan payment brinkmanship - maybe less tolerated by PWC than his friend Kemsley - and maybe some effort to drive down the payments due to the administration - a bit like I am sure people did to us a few years ago. Either way, it is a dangerous game.

AJ's right boot
01-10-2009, 07:06 AM
:(

This is all looking very dodgey. Surely the administrators will be in before long .

scro
01-10-2009, 07:07 AM
I still find it incredibly odd. When you look at the amount of money in from transfers, promotion etc. during SJ's era that we are in so much trouble financially.

We sold AJ, hall and boyce and hardly replaced them with expensive players. There have been other sales and the reported 30 million the premier league is worth to a club. I thought fair enough the money was used for the purchase of the ground at the time. You have to wonder exactly how much SJ has actually "put in" over his time in charge. I guess there is no easy way to tell.

Whatever the truth of it all is. SJ is in danger of taking the club into real financial trouble again. Only this time the ground is not owned by a landlord that cares at all about palace.

No matter how grateful you are to SJ for saving us from exctinction. I think the facts remain he has had sufficient money in to the club to run it for the period he has been here without any great need for him to have been largely out of pocket. He is fast losing my respect to be honest.

mcmean
01-10-2009, 07:07 AM
Thats an obvious reply. Somehow, sadly, I dont think so - too much credible detail in the report. A case of no smoke without fire.
And you could argue that yours is an obvious reply from someone who wants to think the worst. Swings & roundabouts

917L
01-10-2009, 07:13 AM
Thats an obvious reply. Somehow, sadly, I dont think so - too much credible detail in the report. A case of no smoke without fire.

What credible detail?

Theres no detail at all, and pretty much nothing that wasnt alreay in the public domain, aside from the 'it emerged last night' etc

Doesnt mean it isnt true of course

macstar
01-10-2009, 07:20 AM
come on David Sullivan and Karen Brady, save us!!

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 07:22 AM
I think the bloke who wrote it knows his stuff though.

Probably gets his info from certain members of the BBS

Shipsisourking
01-10-2009, 07:24 AM
only superman can save us now mac!

Anyone know his number? :)

Psychokiller
01-10-2009, 07:25 AM
We're doomed :sob:

Shipsisourking
01-10-2009, 07:31 AM
if the star sayes were fxxked then thats it :(

i shouldnt bother turning up to selhurst on saturday guys, ashburton park or bingham reck with coats for goals, selhurst will be padlocked. Dammmmmmm you sj!!!!!

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 07:32 AM
I still find it incredibly odd. When you look at the amount of money in from transfers, promotion etc. during SJ's era that we are in so much trouble financially.


No matter how grateful you are to SJ for saving us from exctinction. I think the facts remain he has had sufficient money in to the club to run it for the period he has been here without any great need for him to have been largely out of pocket. He is fast losing my respect to be honest.

It's not odd at all, the costs of running a club are exhorbitant

Financial Overview
Year Turnover Pre-tax profit Wages / Turnover ratio (%)Employees
2007/08 11.975 -8.116 97.7 160

2006/07 18.093 -2.489 74.2 157

2005/06 20.260 8.733 64.9 149

2004/05 33.691 5.112 53.7 144

2003/04 9.829 -10.892 124

2002/03 10.578 -9.168 86.9 140

2001/02 12.165 -2.979 91.4 167

2000/01 12.205 -3.666 66.7 158

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_crystalpalace.htm

Eye-dee
01-10-2009, 07:33 AM
"The Eagles are working with PWC to sort out a deal but if a financial solution cannot be struck, under the lease agreement, Palace would be forced to leave the ground".

That is surely just stating the obvious? If The Martians landed and took Selhurst away we would be without a ground too. If If If!

IF you can keep your head when all about you . . . . . . .

Now, everyone calm down.



Thank you :)

paf
01-10-2009, 07:35 AM
I'm sure it was mentioned very recently on here that this was a crucial time and that the quarterly rent was due.

eagle1980
01-10-2009, 07:35 AM
lands worth nothing to housing sites. cause noone would buy them

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 07:35 AM
I'm sure it was mentioned very recently on here that this was a crucial time and that the quarterly rent was due.

James brought it up on another thread

david sylvian
01-10-2009, 07:38 AM
lands worth nothing to housing sites. cause noone would buy them

that's not the key issue - the key issue is that the land use would have to changed to allow housing - which would take time/money etc

therefore, the land is not guaranteed to be worth much except as a sports ground - at the moment - a key factor

paf
01-10-2009, 07:40 AM
James brought it up on another thread


well he was right to mention his concern, as it may now be a real issue.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 07:48 AM
Dirty squatters, we are nothing but squatters, maybe we can claim football ground benefit and get Croydon Council to cough up...

GoodFriday69
01-10-2009, 07:56 AM
Maybe we could ground share ... the Withdean, the Valley, maybe the New Den? Hope I wake up soon, these nightmares are getting to me!

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Maybe we could ground share ... the Withdean, the Valley, maybe the New Den? Hope I wake up soon, these nightmares are getting to me!

I'm sure we could ground share with Chelsea

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 07:59 AM
Where's SW16 with her insider info when you need it?

Tony Montana
01-10-2009, 08:00 AM
I am fearing the worse...

sw16girl
01-10-2009, 08:00 AM
The Trust have been informed privately that the Club have not paid the rent since the December 2008 quarter day. The rent due is therefore (as of 29th Sept) about £900k. When the Trust spoke to PWC in July they were told that PWC were not in the business of trying to put the club out of business and they wanted to work with them. The trust spoke again to PWC about two weeks ago and PWC stated that should they be able to release information they would be doing so in the next couple of weeks and that the position remained under review.

PWC were still keen to work towards an acceptable solution and were not suggesting that they would be taking immediate action when we spoke to them. We will try and contact them today and see if we can get any further and reliable information. The Trust was offering to work with the Administrators in order to help solve the problem in any way possible. It was pointed out to them that Palace is a club with a considerable potential and that the fans have galvanised to help the club in the past

This is an official Trust response.

I am not now around on the BBS as I am going into work today and my work computer blocks the BBS but not HOL. If there is anything further that can be reported on once (if) we have been able to contact PWC it therefore will be on the Hol. Sorry about that but I have tried unsucessfully to get round the block before and just can't do it for this site.

paf
01-10-2009, 08:03 AM
my work computer blocks the BBS.

I knew my potty mouth would come back to haunt me.

But thanks for the update.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:04 AM
No rent since december08??

Budgie Byrne
01-10-2009, 08:04 AM
With the pressure growing to find land to build new houses with a fast growing population and the Tube due to reach Norwood Jct some time soon. Any developer who wants to throw in a portion of "social housing" should have no problem getting planning permission. In addition Sainsburys own so much of the land that used to belong to Palace thanks to Mr Bloye, even in these tight financial times do not be surprised if they would not be delighted to get their hands on the rest.
I am sure there is no doubt that we are behind on the rent, there is plenty of information floating round at present to suggest this is likely to be the case.

The key is just how much and if SJ and come to an agreement. Sadly he has only got himself to blame. Once upon a time he had a very long lease with a rent far lower than the crazy deal he in the end had to agree with Kelmsey.

We really need him to be at his negotiating best right now and not just for the club, but also for his own sake, he has so much to lose if this runs away from him.

paf
01-10-2009, 08:04 AM
Worth mentioning again, for those of you who still want to do sex porridge all over SJ.

---------------------

"I have used the structure - unbeknownst to Ron, I suspect - to purchase the freehold, which we exchanged on Friday last week.

"It now puts me in a position in which I own the freehold, which is what I said would do for the club when I bought it six and a half years ago and goes to the heart of the plans of the football club having everything it needs in one place."

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 08:13 AM
Sadly he has only got himself to blame. Once upon a time he had a very long lease with a rent far lower than the crazy deal he in the end had to agree with Kelmsey.

But Noades put the ground up for sale, so a new landlord was inevitable

CPFC_R_GREAT
01-10-2009, 08:14 AM
I think the blonde who wrote it knows her stuff though.

EFA

philsick
01-10-2009, 08:16 AM
And if we did get kicked out what is PWC going to do with a shit tip in the middle of a ethnic shit hole anyway?

This thread is depressing enough,without this kind of bullshit.

cpfc4evandeva
01-10-2009, 08:16 AM
Serious question about Jordan whom I usually support...

What was the point in actually buying the ground and then selling it on straight away? Or did that even happen? Did Kelmsley just buy the ground straight out?

What was achieved?

I can't see or understand what happened?

jhc
01-10-2009, 08:18 AM
Anyways, this is the Daily Star. I would take it with a large shovel of salt.

If Sami says we're behind with the rent, I think you can take it as 100% accurate, unfortunately.
He has his contacts, so I doubt very much that he would print the story without being able to back it up.
Whether that means we are in imminent danger of being thrown out of Selhurst Park - well I think that is just supposition.
Worrying times though:(
If we really are that far behind in the rent, what happened to the £5m that SJ supposedly put into the club in the summer?

cpfcfan1
01-10-2009, 08:18 AM
How very depressing, I can only assume that the admins will be calling soon?

Richard
01-10-2009, 08:21 AM
come on David Sullivan and Karen Brady, save us!!
Good grief - has it come to this ... ?!

Richard
01-10-2009, 08:21 AM
This thread is depressing enough,without this kind of bullshit.
Seconded - I hope that post is removed by the Mods.

Budgie Byrne
01-10-2009, 08:22 AM
But Noades put the ground up for sale, so a new landlord was inevitable

Even if Ron had sold it at a later date (as he did) had SJ kept the original lease (assuming he had not purchased the ground himself at some stage) we would have a more secure lease, a longer lease and more important a cheaper lease!

The fact that the freehold landed in the hands of a property speculator who financed his business on the back of huge bank loans with no foundations so when the downturn came his company fell like a pack of cards is 100% down to SJ and his almost fanatical desire to get one over on Ron.

As they say, sometimes the devil you know!

Simon A
01-10-2009, 08:26 AM
.....I am going into work today and my work computer blocks the BBS but not HOL.




Boy, that REALLY sucks.

917L
01-10-2009, 08:28 AM
Serious question about Jordan whom I usually support...

What was the point in actually buying the ground and then selling it on straight away? Or did that even happen? Did Kelmsley just buy the ground straight out?

What was achieved?

I can't see or understand what happened?

we never bought the ground

Kelmsley did with a deal pre agreed with SJ to lease it from him (and an agreed sale figure I believe)

paf
01-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Statement from the Palace press secretary on behalf of Simon Jordan.


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2897/comicalali.jpg

917L
01-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Even if Ron had sold it at a later date (as he did) had SJ kept the original lease (assuming he had not purchased the ground himself at some stage) we would have a more secure lease, a longer lease and more important a cheaper lease!

The fact that the freehold landed in the hands of a property speculator who financed his business on the back of huge bank loans with no foundations so when the downturn came his company fell like a pack of cards is 100% down to SJ and his almost fanatical desire to get one over on Ron.

As they say, sometimes the devil you know!

The idea was to get reid of the parasitic Noades, it was succesful thankfully.

cpfcfan1
01-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Statement from the Palace press secretary on behalf of Simon Jordan.


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2897/comicalali.jpg


:D :p

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:30 AM
But Noades put the ground up for sale, so a new landlord was inevitable

Wasn't it widely reported that Noades would not sell to anyone that wouldn't guarantee a home for Palace?

I cam't see how any of this can be blamed on Noades.

Tony Montana
01-10-2009, 08:31 AM
I've always been a supporter of SJ, but i must admit i am desturbed by his behaviour and silence on this matter.

When we were promoted, he came out and told the world how he had completed phase 1 of his plan for the club, yeah, it had taken longer then originally planned, but we were in the promised land.

When he "brought the ground" he came out with the same rubbish about how we're re-united with our ground and now in a stronger position to excel as a club, tacky t-shirts were printed and SJ managed to boost his own ego to the world by getting one over on Ron Noades.

Lets look at the facts now. We don't own our aging ground, we have attendences which are consistently below the 13k mark and our playing squad has never been further from the premiership in terms of quality since he took us over. Where is he now? where are his interviews, his soundbites? It's all very quiet and SJ seems to be hiding.

Even the whole Bostock situation, SJ said that it put him off football, the fact that Bostock had left in the way he did left a bitter taste in Sj's mouth. I'm starting to think he was using that as a smokescreen for the fact that his heart isn't in the club and he hasn't got the capability or financial clout to run a football club anymore. Of course, SJ couldn't come out and admit as much, he is a proud man, we have seen evidence of this when he sued Iain Dowie, when he behaved towards Steve Bruce the way he did.

SJ has stated he only wants to sell to the right person, a person who can take us forward, i think the club is in such a mess financially that SJ has said that to buy time. Truth be told, if someone has the money SJ will sell, regardless of the potential purchasers intentions.

Truth this, Jordan underestimated what running a football club is all about, the club has never been run particually well since he's been in charge, i wouldn't say he has improved the day to day running of the club, he was saved by promotion to the premiership, he got lucky, this gave us the financial support to remain competitive, but as soon as the money dried up it has become abundently clear we have no other revenue streams and the club is running at a big loss every month.

I know it's a fairly depressing post, but looking at the situation i can't see much to be happy about. Even when we were in Administration previously the club and the fans were united as one because we felt we'd been ****ed over by an outsider, this time we've not been ****ed over by an outsider, we've been the victim of ineptitude and failure by one of our own. We are managed by someone who although has done reasonably well since he's been with us, will never be considered one of our own and their is a huge malaise around the club brought on by a few years of mid-table mediocrity and alienation of our fan base by the abnormal increase of matchday prices. Christ, some people are even looking at Ron Noades as a potential saviour, thats how bad it has got people!!

917L
01-10-2009, 08:32 AM
Wasn't it widely reported that Noades would not sell to anyone that wouldn't guarantee a home for Palace?

I cam't see how any of this can be blamed on Noades.

where has anyone attempted to blame him?

And indeed we have no idea whether theres anyone to blame for anything yet.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:33 AM
where has anyone attempted to blame him?

And indeed we have no idea whether theres anyone to blame for anything yet.

Its just the way I read Palacemaniac's post

nellis
01-10-2009, 08:35 AM
And if we did get kicked out what is PWC going to do with a shit tip in the middle of a ethnic shit hole anyway?

Er?

Can this guy be banned please?

I'm all for freedom of speech but there's a line.

cpfcfan1
01-10-2009, 08:37 AM
Silly question but if we got kicked out what would happen? would our home games be cancelled or would we HAVE to find somewhere to play them?

Barbara4003
01-10-2009, 08:39 AM
I'm sure the eviction process takes time.

If it came to being evicted, which I don't think it will, it would take quite a few months I think.

I hope.

cupid stunt
01-10-2009, 08:40 AM
Squatters rights.

SJ'sLoveMonkey
01-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Squatters rights.


:D

scro
01-10-2009, 08:45 AM
It's not odd at all, the costs of running a club are exhorbitant

Financial Overview
Year Turnover Pre-tax profit Wages / Turnover ratio (%)Employees
2007/08 11.975 -8.116 97.7 160

2006/07 18.093 -2.489 74.2 157

2005/06 20.260 8.733 64.9 149

2004/05 33.691 5.112 53.7 144

2003/04 9.829 -10.892 124

2002/03 10.578 -9.168 86.9 140

2001/02 12.165 -2.979 91.4 167

2000/01 12.205 -3.666 66.7 158

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_crystalpalace.htm

I still find it odd. If you compare sales to purchases over his tenure and the fact that we had a year in the premier league as well as any other income the club receives. That is a significant amount to run the club with. Perhaps I am totally naive.

Do the profit or loss figures actually tell the full story as to what Jordon is putting in or taking out?

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:47 AM
I've always been a supporter of SJ, but i must admit i am desturbed by his behaviour and silence on this matter.

He is probably too busy up in Greenwich park. His mate Theo is willing to pay a hundred grand for a butterfly that has been spotted there

The Gerry Queen
01-10-2009, 08:47 AM
I can't see how eviction would be in PWC's best interests right now. If, as has been said, rent is owed from Dec 08 to the tune of £900k then surely it would be in PWC's interests to reshedule the arrears. As Simon Jordan personally guarentees Palace's debts much will depend on the state of the rest of his finances. If the whole of SJ's business concerns are really at stake then certainly administration must be considered. Continued silence from Simon Jordan is not a good sign and much would be achieved if he did release a statement to stabilise confidence in the Club.
I doubt very much whether PWC would want to trigger a lengthy planning process given the uncertainty of the market right now. If there is life in Jordan's Palace left then they will consider it in their interests to keep the rental agreement and accept resheduled payments on what isn't really a very marketable proposition.

bigend1
01-10-2009, 08:49 AM
this has been looming for a while. It seems obvious that SJ is on borrowed time financially. But not sure we are at the end of the road just yet. I suspect there maybe a few games going on here.

The rent, first and foremost. Large amount of money SJ probably doesn't want to pay. I suspect he may be holding off as long as possible in the hope a buyer rocks up before it's paid and the outstanding rent will be part of negotiations where by SJ says ok, due to this i will knock say 500k off the asking price and saves himself a tidy sum (and a bit of interest). Same with the payments to Ipswich and former players. Hold off as long as possible. After all what effect does a transfer ban have on a club with no intentions of signing anyone else?! Only when the threat of action forces payment will it happen.

I suspect we will probably go right to the wire in terms of administration and our league position will be a great factor in deciding if we go into it or not. Mid table and capable of taking the 10 pt hit without going down. any buyer will probably hold out, if the 10 pts could sink us however then the buyer would probably use this threat to drive down the price but try to avoid it actually happening. Things are not good, but i dont think we are finished just yet.

917L
01-10-2009, 08:49 AM
If, as has been said, rent is owed from Dec 08 to the tune of £900k .

By who? and where?

Maz
01-10-2009, 08:50 AM
I can't see how eviction would be in PWC's best interests right now. .It's not.

And it won't happen.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:50 AM
By who? and where?

The Trust statement a couple of pages back

cpfc4evandeva
01-10-2009, 08:52 AM
we never bought the ground

Kelmsley did with a deal pre agreed with SJ to lease it from him (and an agreed sale figure I believe)

So the only real 'benefit' to us was to get rid of Noades. Seems a bit pointless to me.

Barbara4003
01-10-2009, 08:54 AM
I heard that SJ had bought one of those new flats at East Croydon. Does anyone know if that's true?

917L
01-10-2009, 08:55 AM
The Trust statement a couple of pages back

Ah, missed SWs post

Yet again it begs a question, why on earth would PWC talk to the Trust about CPFC's debt?

It has nothing at all to do with them.

paf
01-10-2009, 08:55 AM
I heard that SJ had bought one of those new flats at East Croydon. Does anyone know if that's true?

I'm not sure you can play subbuteo and have that count as a real game in the league, still, bagsy a season ticket in the kitchen end, the view form the bathroom end is shit.

paf
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
Yet again it begs a question, why on earth would PWC talk to the Trust about CPFC's debt?

It has nothing at all to do with them.

you prefer this approach?

http://anhonestclimatedebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/ostrich.jpg

Chobham Eagle
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
The idea was to get reid of the parasitic Noades, it was succesful thankfully.

I think this is called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Are you absolutely sure it's good to have got rid of Noades if the lease that replaced the one the club had with him is more expensive and less secure? Would you really rather have PWC as the landlord than Ron Noades?

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 08:58 AM
Ah, missed SWs post

Yet again it begs a question, why on earth would PWC talk to the Trust about CPFC's debt?

It has nothing at all to do with them.

That is a bit odd isnt it.

Still, its good to know whats going on I guess.

Chobham Eagle
01-10-2009, 08:59 AM
I know it's been asked before, but if SJ put "£5m" into the club a few weeks ago, where has it gone? Why can't it be used to pay the rent?

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
01-10-2009, 09:01 AM
Probably gets his info from certain members of the BBS My thoughts exactly. And with a supposed Noades involvement on the cards, it makes you wonder what the motivation for feeding this stuff to the press is?

917L
01-10-2009, 09:03 AM
you prefer this approach?

http://anhonestclimatedebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/ostrich.jpg



I asked why PWC allegeedley talked to the trust about CPFCs financial matters when it has nothing to do with them

Same as me talking to your bank about your cashflow, wouldnt you wonder why the bank spoke to me?

Owngoal
01-10-2009, 09:04 AM
God, when Simon took over and we went back up to the Premiership I thought the 'Steve Coppell' good times were back (just had the 30th anniversary of us topping the league). I really hope that the buying of Birmingham has a knock on impact on us as Simon is obviously struggling to keep our head above water at the moment, much due to poor player signings and boring play by NW (Carle and Lee by NW, Ertl playing little, Davis because of his injury record) and those before him - that c**t Kuqi in particular.

However, there are few teams with our kind of profile, most have heard of us and hopefully we will not go the way of Leeds and Southampton.

Maz
01-10-2009, 09:05 AM
I asked why PWC allegeedley talked to the trust about CPFCs financial matters when it has nothing to do with them

Entirely reasonable question imo

Celestial Empire
01-10-2009, 09:06 AM
I think the bloke who wrote it knows his stuff though.

Yeah, he is probably an avid reader of James' and sw16's posts.:rolleyes:

paf
01-10-2009, 09:07 AM
I asked why PWC allegeedley talked to the trust about CPFCs financial matters when it has nothing to do with them


Perhaps the information they requested is publically available, I cant see PWC doing anything to break any financial regulations. It is in no way similar to you asking about my personal finaicial details.

Typical Palace
01-10-2009, 09:08 AM
Anyways, this is the Daily Star. I would take it with a large shovel of salt.
Except the bloke who wrote it knows Palace inside out.

Gooders
01-10-2009, 09:08 AM
However, there are few teams with our kind of profile, most have heard of us and hopefully we will not go the way of Leeds and Southampton.

You would think - but the fact is we have been on the market for ages - many clubs have been bought in the meantime whilst all we've had is alleged token interest from the usual parasites.

Unless SJ takes a huge hit then it looks like stalemate to me.

The Gerry Queen
01-10-2009, 09:09 AM
By who? and where?


It's on SW16girl's earlier post on this thead. Rent due from Dec 08 to be paid by 29th September to the tune of £900k.

I guess it can be worked out from CPFC2000's annual accounts as if the payments were missing then they, together with this years first two quarters, would be due by the end of September? The Club are supposed to pay £1.2m a year under this agreement so £900k is the bill for three quarterly payments since last December.

Gooders
01-10-2009, 09:10 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.

Richard
01-10-2009, 09:12 AM
Entirely reasonable question imoPointless question, unless this thread is going to turn into another attempt by a few to bash the Trust ...

bigend1
01-10-2009, 09:12 AM
Ah, missed SWs post

Yet again it begs a question, why on earth would PWC talk to the Trust about CPFC's debt?

It has nothing at all to do with them.

indeed, didnít even think about that. SJ must have given permission for PWC to speak to the trust, otherwise if they have been giving out such specific information then that is surely a major breech of the data protection act. oh er missus...

Anyhow further to my it might not be quite THAT bad YET, speech... other things i forgot to mention have me feeling things aren't quite so desperate.

The summer for one. I donít know if we did get any firm offers for our players in the end or not, but there was deffo interest. If we couldnít actually pay the rent, the players, the fee's etc... then we would have without a doubt lost at least clyne and mosses. doubt if it was that bad we would have got £5 million total for both, yet couldnít have afforded to say no. But if there were any offers they were rejected and any enquiry's were shot down.

The key things for which there would be little time to play games, ie... players wages, are being paid, so there are pennies in the pot. Also though we didnít buy anyone, we did sign players, all pennies on the wage bill that wouldnít have happened if administration was looming as large as it could seem.

Loaning sears i'm sure attracted a reasonable fee given the number of clubs that were interested. So gloomy yes, but IMO not yet doomy.

paf
01-10-2009, 09:13 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.

that's cobblers, try telling that to all the regional newspaper journos, they'd bite a nut off to get a job at a national daily, even the star.

Richard
01-10-2009, 09:13 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.
Did you go straight into your senior management role, or did you work your way up ?

Typical Palace
01-10-2009, 09:13 AM
The idea was to get reid of the parasitic Noades, it was succesful thankfully.
Getting rid of one parasite only to replace him with another that charges one far more rent makes no sense whatsoever.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 09:15 AM
Perhaps the information they requested is publically available, I cant see PWC doing anything to break any financial regulations. It is in no way similar to you asking about my personal finaicial details.

Its not a million miles away from PWC putting out a press release/statement is it?

Richard
01-10-2009, 09:16 AM
indeed, didnít even think about that. SJ must have given permission for PWC to speak to the trust, otherwise if they have been giving out such specific information then that is surely a major breech of the data protection act. oh er missus... PWC are acting for the administrators of Rock, aren't they ? In which case they can speak to whom they like in order to pursue their aims. Simon Paterson frequently spoke to the Trust.

917L
01-10-2009, 09:16 AM
Perhaps the information they requested is publically available, I cant see PWC doing anything to break any financial regulations. It is in no way similar to you asking about my personal finaicial details.

If it were publicly available then the Trust would have no need to speak to PWC

I agree its unlikely that PWC would have broken finacial regs, but ask again why would they speak to anyone but a recognised representative of CPFC about CPFCs financial matters?

paf
01-10-2009, 09:17 AM
Its not a million miles away from PWC putting out a press release/statement is it?

PWC are the adminstrators for Rock Investments, I am not familiar with the admistration process or how much of that is done in the public domain, but I would assume a lot of transparency?

Freddy Kurz
01-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I know it's been asked before, but if SJ put "£5m" into the club a few weeks ago, where has it gone? Why can't it be used to pay the rent?

But wasn't that sum used to guarantee the club's overdraft (the amount it
owes to the bank)?

nottsunieagle
01-10-2009, 09:17 AM
It's an unnerving time to be a Palace fan, that's for sure.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 09:18 AM
I agree its unlikely that PWC would have broken finacial regs, but ask again why would they speak to anyone but a recognised representative of CPFC about CPFCs financial matters?

I cant see it being very different to them telling a journalist or putting out a statement to be honest.

But this is a red herring, we have not paid any rent on the ground for nye on a year, that is surely the main issue

bigend1
01-10-2009, 09:18 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.


not sure i agree with that. sure its probably a pretty good job tbh. Like saying ooohh you write for the sun, readers are thick you must be. Whatever your opinion on the readers, the people who work for the sun have pretty much got it right. they sell a lot more papers, make a lot more advertising money and have a lot more influence than most. Probably have to be fairly good at what you do to get a job at any national daily paper. JAT

917L
01-10-2009, 09:18 AM
PWC are acting for the administrators of Rock, aren't they ? In which case they can speak to whom they like in order to pursue their aims. Simon Paterson frequently spoke to the Trust.

But we're not in administration and Palaces financial dealings should not be discussed with external parties surely?

paf
01-10-2009, 09:19 AM
If it were publicly available then the Trust would have no need to speak to PWC

I agree its unlikely that PWC would have broken finacial regs, but ask again why would they speak to anyone but a recognised representative of CPFC about CPFCs financial matters?

I dont see the big deal, perhaps anyone with a vested interest can request information.

paf
01-10-2009, 09:20 AM
But we're not in administration and Palaces financial dealings should not be discussed with external parties surely?

The ground is owned by Rock Investments, they are in administration.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 09:22 AM
The ground is owned by Rock Investments, they are in administration.

And its PwC's job to get the best deal for Rock Investments creditors - not to prop up Simon Jordan:eek:

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 09:23 AM
PWC are the adminstrators for Rock Investments, I am not familiar with the admistration process or how much of that is done in the public domain, but I would assume a lot of transparency?

I'm not either. But companies are well within their rights to disclose whatever information they like. I'm sure in this situation PWC have set a limit on what information they are prepared to release, whether it be to the press or an organisation lik PISA or the Trust

Richard
01-10-2009, 09:24 AM
But we're not in administration and Palaces financial dealings should not be discussed with external parties surely?
But Rock is, and I can't see any duty of confidentiality on PWC not to discuss their financial matters with interested parties. There's always the risk of defamation, but truth is always a defence to that.

Gooders
01-10-2009, 09:25 AM
Blimey - the BBS is full of avid Daily Star readers!

Ok, I stand corrected - everyone has to start somewhere I suppose.

Chobham Eagle
01-10-2009, 09:26 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can this thread NOT turn into another debate about the Trust!!!

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Serious question about Jordan whom I usually support...

What was the point in actually buying the ground and then selling it on straight away? Or did that even happen? Did Kelmsley just buy the ground straight out?

What was achieved?

I can't see or understand what happened?

From fourfourtwo interview

What was Ron Noadesí reaction after he realised heíd sold Selhurst Park to you? How did that deal work exactly?Adam Watts, via e-mail

I donít bother myself with Ron Noadesí reactions. The financiers behind my acquisition of Selhurst Park were Rock, who are owned by Paul Kelmsley, a pal of mine. Rather than going to a bank to get funding, I used Paul to fund the purchase of Selhurst Park with me becoming the beneficial owner. I will service the debt, as you would do with any mortgage, and myself and Paul at some stage would possibly have a deal if Palace ever move to carve up residential.

That didnít work, so we changed it around to me having a 25-year lease on the stadium inside the Landlord and Tenants Act, which gives security, and I have a seven- year option to buy the stadium at a time that suits me. It gives me seven years to buy the stadium or relocate it somewhere else. I got the best of both worlds; the original perspective of ownership of the stadium was correct, but I didnít want to go into the framework of how I funded it Ė it wasnít anyoneís business. I have subsequently spent a year changing the dynamics of that for the betterment of the club.

Chobham Eagle
01-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Blimey - the BBS is full of avid Daily Star readers!

Ok, I stand corrected - everyone has to start somewhere I suppose.


Even that's not right I'm afraid. I can't stand the Sun but I would be the first to admit that its Political Editor Trevor Kavanagh is as smart and as well connected as anyone in political journalism.

bigend1
01-10-2009, 09:28 AM
The ground is owned by Rock Investments, they are in administration.

indeed they are and therefore i guess palace paying rent (or not) can be discussed with any party involved in the administration of rock. but surely discussing rent arrears with anyone else cant be legal. the trust are not a potential buyer of rock, so it's not there business surely?

It cant be in the interests of palace either in terms of buyers, or transfer negotiations for anyone to know we cant afford the rent.

Imagine if when northern rock was in trouble they put up the names and addresses of all the people who were in arrears with there mortgage outside the branch and said donít blame us, blame them!

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Wasn't it widely reported that Noades would not sell to anyone that wouldn't guarantee a home for Palace?

I cam't see how any of this can be blamed on Noades.

Not blaming Noades

Tele Caster
01-10-2009, 09:28 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.

Yeah, beacuse there are just so many available jobs for journalists on national newspapers you chump.
Did you know the Daily Star outsells The Guardian by over half a million copies every day.

Richard
01-10-2009, 09:32 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can this thread NOT turn into another debate about the Trust!!!
Quite.

And I think we've all kicked Gooders enough on the subject of journalism careers, now !

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 09:33 AM
How often do we have to pay rent? Monthly/quarterly/yearly?

SE25Eagle
01-10-2009, 09:35 AM
How often do we have to pay rent? Monthly/quarterly/yearly?

Keep up for christ sake :rolleyes:




:D

Celestial Empire
01-10-2009, 09:35 AM
SJ seems to have been attending most recent games, even away games, so he certainly doesn't look like a guy who has gone to ground because his businesses have collapsed.
It's probable that he's right on the edge, like tens of thousands of others, and his reserves may be just about gone. I really hope he is talking to some potential buyers, because the economic situation is not going to improve anytime soon.

bigend1
01-10-2009, 09:38 AM
Quite.

And I think we've all kicked Gooders enough on the subject of journalism careers, now !

yeah ditto that, punishment starting to not fit the crime and all that. Also starting to risk blowing smoke up the arse of piers morgan. He was editor and the comments on here would suggest that makes him talented. Just so we are clear and the balance maintained... he is a cock. :)

sydnsteve
01-10-2009, 09:39 AM
If it were publicly available then the Trust would have no need to speak to PWC

I agree its unlikely that PWC would have broken finacial regs, but ask again why would they speak to anyone but a recognised representative of CPFC about CPFCs financial matters?

Because it is not CPFC that own the ground, but what was Rock Investments. As administrators they can presumably do more or less what they like.
And I have never found SW16girl to be anything but factually accurate. (not necesarily suppositionally accurate though)

zonin2000
01-10-2009, 09:40 AM
I still find it incredibly odd. When you look at the amount of money in from transfers, promotion etc. during SJ's era that we are in so much trouble financially.
Weren't wages something like 107% of turnover in the last set of accounts?

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 09:45 AM
Weren't wages something like 107% of turnover in the last set of accounts?

97,7% it seems


Financial Overview
Year Turnover Pre-tax profit Wages / Turnover ratio (%)Employees
2007/08 11.975 -8.116 97.7 160



http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_crystalpalace.htm

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 09:47 AM
I heard that SJ had bought one of those new flats at East Croydon. Does anyone know if that's true?

This is at least the second time you have asked this, and still no response :D

scro
01-10-2009, 09:47 AM
If the bloke that wrote it "knew his stuff", he wouldn't be working for the Daily Star. JAT.

Yeah reporting for a national newspaper isn't at all valid.

You would have thought his palace information, would be sufficient to secure him the editors job at the biggest papers in the world. What is going on???:clown:

cdm61
01-10-2009, 09:49 AM
For all of us who lack legal training...remedies for non payment of commercial rent if SJ can't negotiate

DISTRESS (SENDING IN THE BAILIFF) What is it?
An ancient remedy incidental to the lease and the relationship of landlord and tenant. It is therefore only available to the landlord and can only be carried out at the premises which he has let to the tenant.

What does it do? The landlord, by using a certificated bailiff, takes possession of the tenantís goods on the premises let to him and holds them pending payment of the rent, or sells them and keeps the proceeds in lieu.

When can the bailiffs be sent in? Immediately after the tenant fails to pay rent in breach of his obligation to do so.

Must I get a solicitor to instruct bailiffs? No. The landlord must use a certificated (i.e. duly authorised) bailiff, but can instruct the bailiff direct.

What are its advantages? It is cheap and fast. It can also be very effective, especially for retail premises.

What are its disadvantages? The law on when a landlord can send the bailiff in, the goods he can seize, for how long the goods can be held once seized, and the rights of third parties claiming ownership of them, is both complex and in parts extremely archaic. It will change with the implementation of a new statutory regime known as Commercial Rent Arrears Recovery, but this has not yet become law.

Is the right to send in the bailiff affected if the tenant is in administration or liquidation? If the tenant is in administration or compulsory liquidation (i.e. is the subject of a winding up petition Ė see page 4) the landlord may not send in the bailiff. If he sent the bailiff in before the tenant went into administration or compulsory liquidation, he must instruct the bailiff to withdraw. If the tenant is in voluntary liquidation, the right to send in the bailiff is not affected

STATUTORY DEMAND - What is it?
A demand to pay a debt in a form specified by the insolvency legislation.
What does it do? The Insolvency Act 1986 states that if the debtor does not pay the debt within 21 days of receiving the Statutory Demand
for it, he is deemed to have committed an Act of Insolvency. This entitles the creditor to issue a winding up petition if the debtor is a limited company, or a bankruptcy petition if he is an individual.

When can a Statutory Demand be served?
A Statutory Demand can be served for any debt over £750 if that debt cannot reasonably be disputed. Must I get a solicitor to serve it?
No. Many creditors do, but this is in fact not required by the insolvency legislation.
What are its advantages? It is relatively cheap (typically it costs in the region of £250 plus VAT per demand if solicitors are instructed) and it
concentrates the minds of most debtors. Also, whilst it entitles the creditor to proceed to issue either a winding up or bankruptcy petition, it does not oblige him to do so.
What are its disadvantages? It allows 21 days for payment, which in certain circumstances may be too long.
Is the right to serve a Statutory Demand affected if the tenant is in administration or liquidation? Yes, i.e. it cannot be served

WINDING UP PETITION What is it?
An application to the court for an order that the debtor company be wound up because it cannot pay its debts when they fall due.
What does it do?
The insolvency legislation provides that the winding up petition must be advertised in the London Gazette no sooner than 7 business days after the petition is served and no later than 7 business days before the court hearing. It must show the date of the petition hearing and the creditorís name and address, and invite others to contact the creditor if they wish to
support or oppose the petition. If the court orders that the debtor company is to be wound up, the Official Receiver will be appointed liquidator of the company.
When can a Winding Up Petition be issued and served? When a company is unable to pay it debts as and when they fall due, e.g. rent payable on the usual quarter days. Must I get a solicitor to issue and serve it?
Yes, if the petitioning creditor is itself a company.

What are its advantages?
It compels the debtor company to deal with the debt, either by paying it (in which case the winding up petition can be withdrawn by agreement) or by acknowledging that it cannot pay it. The statutory advertisement can be very damaging, both to the debtor company's reputation and because its bank will usually immediately freeze its accounts. The insolvency legislation also provides that once a winding up petition has been issued and served, the debtor company cannot be put into administration except by an order of the court, i.e. an administration by filing a notice of appointment of
administrators is rendered impossible. This would impede, or possibly prevent, a re-structuring or asset sale being carried out at the instigation of another creditor of the tenant, e.g. its bank.

What are its disadvantages?
It is relatively expensive, involving court fees of £880 (although most of these are refunded if the winding up petition is withdrawn before the hearing), and solicitorsí fees of about £1,500 plus VAT. Further, once issued, the creditor is committed to proceeding with it unless it is withdrawn with the consent of the debtor company. Is the right to issue and serve a Winding Up petition affected if the tenant is in administration or liquidation?
Yes, i.e. it cannot be issued and served

scro
01-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Quite.

And I think we've all kicked Gooders enough on the subject of journalism careers, now !

OOPS I really should read to the end of the thread before commenting on stupidity.

Barbara4003
01-10-2009, 09:50 AM
This is at least the second time you have asked this, and still no response :D

I know :(

Scroatey
01-10-2009, 09:57 AM
DISTRESS (SENDING IN THE BAILIFF) What is it?
What does it do? The landlord, by using a certificated bailiff, takes possession of the tenantís goods on the premises let to him and holds them pending payment of the rent, or sells them and keeps the proceeds in lieu.Some tables and chairs from the Glaziers bar, and a few barrels of beer which probably aren't paid for yet? Better hope Moses is kept away from the ground or they might kidnap him :eek:

Poacher
01-10-2009, 09:58 AM
To confirm that (a) PwC agreed to meet the Trust as an interested party in working with a potential purchaser of the Ground (and/or the club)and as a represenative supporters' group and (b) PwC declined to comment on whether there were rent arrears & discussed nothing about the club's financial position
We also wanted PwC to be aware of the Trust's background from 2000.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 10:02 AM
(b) PwC declined to comment on whether there were rent arrears & discussed nothing about the club's financial position

So what is this?


The Trust have been informed privately that the Club have not paid the rent since the December 2008 quarter day. The rent due is therefore (as of 29th Sept) about £900k. When the Trust spoke to PWC in July they were told that PWC were not in the business of trying to put the club out of business and they wanted to work with them. The trust spoke again to PWC about two weeks ago and PWC stated that should they be able to release information they would be doing so in the next couple of weeks and that the position remained under review.

PWC were still keen to work towards an acceptable solution and were not suggesting that they would be taking immediate action when we spoke to them. We will try and contact them today and see if we can get any further and reliable information. The Trust was offering to work with the Administrators in order to help solve the problem in any way possible. It was pointed out to them that Palace is a club with a considerable potential and that the fans have galvanised to help the club in the past

This is an official Trust response.

I am not now around on the BBS as I am going into work today and my work computer blocks the BBS but not HOL. If there is anything further that can be reported on once (if) we have been able to contact PWC it therefore will be on the Hol. Sorry about that but I have tried unsucessfully to get round the block before and just can't do it for this site.

Beanie
01-10-2009, 10:02 AM
I think the bloke who wrote it knows his stuff though.
Why - what makes him unique?

bigend1
01-10-2009, 10:04 AM
To confirm that (a) PwC agreed to meet the Trust as an interested party in working with a potential purchaser of the Ground (and/or the club)and as a represenative supporters' group and (b) PwC declined to comment on whether there were rent arrears & discussed nothing about the club's financial position
We also wanted PwC to be aware of the Trust's background from 2000.

well there we go. thank you poacher. so in conclusion we now know that PwC acted legally and in good faith (as did the trust of course), we also know that mr whatever his name is who writes for the star is very talented indeed and his mother is surely very proud. excellent. close the thread... oh hold on... almost forgot.. the rent thing?! how screwed are we? :)

Richard
01-10-2009, 10:06 AM
well there we go. thank you poacher. so in conclusion we now know that PwC acted legally and in good faith (as did the trust of course), we also know that mr whatever his name is who writes for the star is very talented indeed and his mother is surely very proud. excellent. close the thread... oh hold on... almost forgot.. the rent thing?! how screwed are we? :)
If only we had a commercial property legal expert on the BBS - possibly a retired one with time on his hands to advise ...

paf
01-10-2009, 10:06 AM
If only we had a commercial property legal expert on the BBS - possibly a retired one with time on his hands to advise ...

I think thursdays are when he hosts his 'special' parties.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 10:10 AM
In a swish hotel in Guildford

Richard
01-10-2009, 10:11 AM
I think thursdays are when he hosts his 'special' parties.OAP Bingo ?

paf
01-10-2009, 10:15 AM
OAP Bingo ?


OAP 'bongo' I think :)

johnbush
01-10-2009, 10:27 AM
Seconded - I hope that post is removed by the Mods.
Agreed.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 10:43 AM
So what is this?Read SW16 girl's first sentence again.

jookbeard
01-10-2009, 10:44 AM
are the realms of leaving S/P and ground sharing with another club a distinct reality?

Big Blue Eagle
01-10-2009, 10:46 AM
From SW on HOL:

Just a minor clarification - we were not told by PWC the extent of the arrears. The rent WAS paid on the December quarter day it is the ones since then that have not been paid.

NW Eagle - The Trust have been aware of the position for sometime but specifically did not publicise it as it seemed inappropriate to do so and might have caused panic - however with the story in the Star it was decided that a clear statement was preferable to a lot of speculation.


Edited by sw16girl (01 Oct 2009 11:40am)

FraserH
01-10-2009, 10:46 AM
get your caravans out people it looks like we are off to the valley :(

DocSavage
01-10-2009, 10:49 AM
well bromley would be fasr more convenient for me

racehorse-80s
01-10-2009, 10:49 AM
It was only a matter of time given the stupid amount of money the club pays the owners.
The rent is around twice as much as noades was getting if earlier newspaper reports are accurate.
I can see us ending up at the den or sutton utd even :(

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Read SW16 girl's first sentence again.

D'OH. I read it as being informed privately by PWC.

Assumption is the mother of all **** ups

dim
01-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Seconded - I hope that post is removed by the Mods.

Which of course will only cause trouble with the rockers...

selhursthoover
01-10-2009, 11:02 AM
get your caravans out people it looks like we are off to the valley :(

Over my f@@king dead body.

:p :lux:

thefox
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
I still find it incredibly odd. When you look at the amount of money in from transfers, promotion etc. during SJ's era that we are in so much trouble financially.

We sold AJ, hall and boyce and hardly replaced them with expensive players. There have been other sales and the reported 30 million the premier league is worth to a club. I thought fair enough the money was used for the purchase of the ground at the time. You have to wonder exactly how much SJ has actually "put in" over his time in charge. I guess there is no easy way to tell.

Whatever the truth of it all is. SJ is in danger of taking the club into real financial trouble again. Only this time the ground is not owned by a landlord that cares at all about palace.

No matter how grateful you are to SJ for saving us from exctinction. I think the facts remain he has had sufficient money in to the club to run it for the period he has been here without any great need for him to have been largely out of pocket. He is fast losing my respect to be honest.

Breaking news , no one else wants us as far as we know . SJ has put millions into the club, it is a business. Would you put millions into a business that was losing it all because someone else wants you to ? Without him it looks like there will be no club.

racehorse-80s
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
The club need to make a statement about the situation given the amount of longterm season ticket holders who must be worried.

eagle101
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
well bromley would be fasr more convenient for me

Could you imagine if we somehow managed to end up playing our games at Bromley?! The atmosphere would be incredible :D :lux:

Won't happen though because of the terracing etc.

Edit: Not that I want us to leave Selhurst btw.

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 11:06 AM
The club need to make a statement about the situation given the amount of longterm season ticket holders who must be worried.

agreed. Not paying rent for a year is extremely worrying

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE=eagle101]Could you imagine if we somehow managed to end up playing our games at Bromley?! The atmosphere would be incredible :D :lux:QUOTE]



people would moan about the ticket prices

selhursthoover
01-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Breaking news , no one else wants us as far as we know . SJ has put millions into the club, it is a business. Would you put millions into a business that was losing it all because someone else wants you to ? Without him it looks like there will be no club.

Never been one to love or loath chairman in the past but SJ is keeping the club afloat when others could/would walk away very easily.

OK for us to move on we do need new investment but until that happens he has my backing.

:p :lux:

anti-addick
01-10-2009, 11:09 AM
So, when SJ said he'd bought the ground and secured it for the club this was a lie?

Shipp Ahoy!
01-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Oh dear this is all looking rather scary :(

I'm pretty certain its all true but if it isn't we should sue them, if we can.

Sad to say I think unless Simon is prepared to continue digging deep which to be perfectly honest even as a fan I think he is getting pretty tired of doing, then I think administration may well be inevitable unless of course we can find some miracle buyer. (Again IMHO not going to happen as anyone with any savvy will be looking at our situation waiting for admin before stealing the club at a pittance!)

selhursthoover
01-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Could you imagine if we somehow managed to end up playing our games at Bromley?! The atmosphere would be incredible :D :lux:

Won't happen though because of the terracing etc.

Edit: Not that I want us to leave Selhurst btw.

Good view of the pitch from the clubhouse too!!!


:D :lux:

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 11:11 AM
agreed. Not paying rent for a year is extremely worryingAt the moment I am trying to grasp what the money has been spent on if it is not the rent, transfer fees, wages. Where the hell has that £5m gone?

It simply does not add up.

eagle101
01-10-2009, 11:13 AM
people would moan about the ticket prices

:cool: :p

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 11:15 AM
So, when SJ said he'd bought the ground and secured it for the club this was a lie?

Jordan's take on the situation

From fourfourtwo interview


The financiers behind my acquisition of Selhurst Park were Rock, who are owned by Paul Kelmsley, a pal of mine. Rather than going to a bank to get funding, I used Paul to fund the purchase of Selhurst Park with me becoming the beneficial owner. I will service the debt, as you would do with any mortgage, and myself and Paul at some stage would possibly have a deal if Palace ever move to carve up residential.

That didnít work, so we changed it around to me having a 25-year lease on the stadium inside the Landlord and Tenants Act, which gives security, and I have a seven- year option to buy the stadium at a time that suits me. It gives me seven years to buy the stadium or relocate it somewhere else. I got the best of both worlds; the original perspective of ownership of the stadium was correct, but I didnít want to go into the framework of how I funded it Ė it wasnít anyoneís business. I have subsequently spent a year changing the dynamics of that for the betterment of the club.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 11:16 AM
At the moment I am trying to grasp what the money has been spent on if it is not the rent, transfer fees, wages. Where the hell has that £5m gone?

It simply does not add up.

According to some of the posters on here there was no £5m...

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 11:17 AM
Jordan's take on the situation

And:

"I have used the structure - unbeknownst to Ron, I suspect - to purchase the freehold, which we exchanged on Friday last week.

"It now puts me in a position in which I own the freehold, which is what I said would do for the club when I bought it six and a half years ago and goes to the heart of the plans of the football club having everything it needs in one place."

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 11:17 AM
Oh dear this is all looking rather scary :(

I'm pretty certain its all true but if it isn't we should sue them, if we can.

Sue who? The paper?

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 11:22 AM
And:

"I have used the structure - unbeknownst to Ron, I suspect - to purchase the freehold, which we exchanged on Friday last week.

"It now puts me in a position in which I own the freehold, which is what I said would do for the club when I bought it six and a half years ago and goes to the heart of the plans of the football club having everything it needs in one place."

This was the original take, the one I quoted was from a couple of years later

paf
01-10-2009, 11:23 AM
This was the original take, the one I quoted was from a couple of years later

after he was caught fibbing you mean?

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 11:26 AM
This was the original take, the one I quoted was from a couple of years later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZW8BHHKbZY

"The facts of the matter are, it has been sold. It's been sold to me"

EDIT: as paf just said

swissroll
01-10-2009, 11:27 AM
The problem with this sort of event is that it causes other creditors to get nervous and a snowball can easily start to roll, build up and become very difficult to stop. Jordan/Palace need to clarify all and quickly.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 11:28 AM
The problem with this sort of event is that it causes other creditors to get nervous and a snowball can easily start to roll, build up and become very difficult to stop. Jordan/Palace need to clarify all and quickly.Again you will get shouted down by some on here for sensible comments like that.

Wash your mouth out.

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 11:30 AM
Are we still allowed to call the games at Selhurst Park home games?

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 11:34 AM
after he was caught fibbing you mean?

No, no, no after he had spent "a year changing the dynamics of that for the betterment of the club." :D

You and il Padrino couln't be politicians

cdm61
01-10-2009, 11:35 AM
First sign of spreading http://www.tribalfootball.com/crystal-palace-face-boot-selhurst-park-352431

Voldo
01-10-2009, 11:37 AM
10 years on........

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 11:37 AM
First sign of spreading http://www.tribalfootball.com/crystal-palace-face-boot-selhurst-park-352431

The Trust have obviously been busy calling various press agencies

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 11:38 AM
The Trust have obviously been busy calling various press agenciesI really really hope that the Star have not got hold of this from anyone on here, at the trust or PISA or the like.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
01-10-2009, 11:39 AM
If only we had a commercial property legal expert on the BBS - possibly a retired one with time on his hands to advise ... I think he has just polished off a slice of cake washed down with a pot of Ron's tea and has gone into the yard to help him sharpen his axe.

Voldo
01-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Ah, hello there Ted

dim
01-10-2009, 11:40 AM
What do we want?

Noades OUT (of retirement)....

When do we want it?

Errrrr

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
01-10-2009, 11:41 AM
I really really hope that the Star have not got hold of this from anyone on here, at the trust or PISA or the like. Duh! Because no-one on here has prior history of digging dirt on Jordan and feeding it to the press... do they?

Budgie Byrne
01-10-2009, 11:41 AM
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by plalacemaniac
From fourfourtwo interview


The financiers behind my acquisition of Selhurst Park were Rock, who are owned by Paul Kelmsley, a pal of mine. Rather than going to a bank to get funding, I used Paul to fund the purchase of Selhurst Park with me becoming the beneficial owner. I will service the debt, as you would do with any mortgage, and myself and Paul at some stage would possibly have a deal if Palace ever move to carve up residential.

That didnít work, so we changed it around to me having a 25-year lease on the stadium inside the Landlord and Tenants Act, which gives security, and I have a seven- year option to buy the stadium at a time that suits me. It gives me seven years to buy the stadium or relocate it somewhere else. I got the best of both worlds; the original perspective of ownership of the stadium was correct, but I didnít want to go into the framework of how I funded it Ė it wasnít anyoneís business. I have subsequently spent a year changing the dynamics of that for the betterment of the club.
[/QUOTE]

The question we will I doubt never know the answer to is was this also Kelmsey's take on the situation. There seems to be plenty of suggestion that he fell out with SJ and regreted ever getting involved. Of course unless anybody travels to New York where he is now living to get away from the crash of his UK business, we will never know. It seems that the above arrangement was constructed much later after Kelmsey purchased the freehold from Ron. Remember the brochures SJ distributed around the city in an attempt to find investors which would have enabled him to buy the freehold off Kelmsey.

It may appear to sum that SJ having once purchased the club after Jerry Lim acted as a stalking horse and secured our exit from administration for Simon to buy of Lim within on the same day, tried the same move to out fox Ron over the freehold and it had backfired big time.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Duh! Because no-one on here has prior history of digging dirt on Jordan and feeding it to the press... do they?I am aware of what happened previously.

paf
01-10-2009, 11:48 AM
I've tracked down some of SJ's wonga, allthough a lot of us knew about her anway, she finally fessed up to charging 15K a ride.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/anderton091006_228x316.jpg

palacelad1970
01-10-2009, 11:50 AM
And if we did get kicked out what is PWC going to do with a shit tip in the middle of a ethnic shit hole anyway?

lol

FraserH
01-10-2009, 11:52 AM
The Trust have obviously been busy calling various press agencies

tribal footbal is one of the worst sites, their rumour mill is worse than the one on here, all they have don e is rehash the star story

spike
01-10-2009, 11:52 AM
The Trust have obviously been busy calling various press agencies

Or the website has rehashed a story from the papers. There is nothing in that article other than stating what the Star said.

EDIT : Not quick enough it seems!

cdm61
01-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Surely that's all past history now that Rock is defunct and those nice chaps PcW are in charge...? It seems the rent arrears are approaching £2m (2quarters at £900k).

Its PcW's call all the way - if SJ can't demonstrate he can
a) pay future rent and
b) pay the arrears then PcW will have to decide putting SJ into administration is more likely to secure the finances of Rock's creditors.

They would have to know that there are buyers for the club and ground to make that call - or they would consider selling the land for development

There are rumours of buyers - I don't have a clue on what would happen to the sale of the ground for development is that possible in the short term?

Seems to me you would only put SJ into admin if you had offers for the ground by potential buyers of the club once SJ went into administration...

Maz
01-10-2009, 11:56 AM
So, when SJ said he'd bought the ground and secured it for the club this was a lie?

No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?

917L
01-10-2009, 11:58 AM
What do we want?

Noades OUT (of retirement)....

When do we want it?

Errrrr

Never

spike
01-10-2009, 11:58 AM
They would have to know that there are buyers for the club and ground to make that call - or they would consider selling the land for development

There are rumours of buyers - I don't have a clue on what would happen to the sale of the ground for development is that possible in the short term?

Seems to me you would only put SJ into admin if you had offers for the ground by potential buyers of the club once SJ went into administration...

This idea sounds most dodgy. It seems you are saying that PWC would put another company(CP) into administration to facilitate the sale of seperate assets (SP) to a 3rd party who is vulturing around CP.
I know it is all a mixture of hypothesis and speculation, but would a trick like this be allowed?

917L
01-10-2009, 11:59 AM
No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?

Not the same though, we are merely renting, we do not have a mortgage on the ground which means we will own it at end of term

spike
01-10-2009, 12:00 PM
No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?

When you buy a house with a mortgage, your name is on the deeds, with a charge over it from the bank. You are the legal owner.

Has this ever been the case with Selhurst Park and Simon Jordan?

paf
01-10-2009, 12:01 PM
This idea sounds most dodgy. It seems you are saying that PWC would put another company(CP) into administration to facilitate the sale of seperate assets (SP) to a 3rd party who is vulturing around CP.
I know it is all a mixture of hypothesis and speculation, but would a trick like this be allowed?


who knows, but if I was a rock investments creditor (say I'd bunged a million quids worrth of kitchens into one of Kemsleys developments) I'd be eyeing up that dosh owed by Palace for sure.

Oh and if anyone is interested, Kemsley has done a runner to the US where he has just bought the rights to the New York Cosmos.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:01 PM
This idea sounds most dodgy. It seems you are saying that PWC would put another company(CP) into administration to facilitate the sale of seperate assets (SP) to a 3rd party who is vulturing around CP.
I know it is all a mixture of hypothesis and speculation, but would a trick like this be allowed?My guess is that they can simply terminate the lease due to default (can they not) if they wanted to separate the club from the asset (and thus sell as housing or whatever to maximise its value)

They would take action to recover the outstanding lease payments though the courts (admin etc)

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:02 PM
When you buy a house with a mortgage, your name is on the deeds, with a charge over it from the bank. You are the legal owner.

Has this ever been the case with Selhurst Park and Simon Jordan?Nope

cdm61
01-10-2009, 12:03 PM
This idea sounds most dodgy. It seems you are saying that PWC would put another company(CP) into administration to facilitate the sale of seperate assets (SP) to a 3rd party who is vulturing around CP.
I know it is all a mixture of hypothesis and speculation, but would a trick like this be allowed?

Its not a trick...PcW must pay Rock's creditors off by managing the assets of Rock now that the company has folded. The ground belonged to Rock, it has a sitting tenant that isn't paying rent. Get rid of the tenant, sell the freehold, pay off the creditors, pocket the fee. PcW are getting paid to do the best for Rock creditors don't forget.

GUCCI Eagle
01-10-2009, 12:06 PM
It does feel a little bit like the Administrators are creeping closer and closer.

In that event it would be a bit of a dodgy proposition for a potential buyer that the last two owners had taken the club into administration.

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 12:07 PM
I've tracked down some of SJ's wonga, allthough a lot of us knew about her anway, she finally fessed up to charging 15K a ride.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/anderton091006_228x316.jpg

Nowadays flying economy on chartered planes

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/3877970876_1aaf5e8807.jpg

Sandowneagle
01-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Known about non payment of rent for a long time, didn't post it on here because of the response from usual suspects. What I have been told from with inside the club is that it is our non payment of rent which forced Rock into administration. There will be no takers for the ground at the price PWC are asking as who wants to own a ground when the sitting tennant isn't paying the rent. So PWC see the only options for selling the ground as a) very low price to a 3rd party who knows one day he will get a return but not in the short term, b) to the new owners of CPFC but that looks a million miles away unless administration arrives, c) CPFC leaving Selhurst which cannot / will not happen overnight.

SJ/DJ know the situation, by them not paying they firstly have more cash to keep the club afloat and secondly it makes selling the club easier, now to buy the club and the ground it is far cheaper than it was 6 months ago.

We're not doomed, but anybody who had any doubt that we are in final sh!te needs to wake up. We will sell big time in the Jan window if we can, that Danns, Speroni etc etc.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:07 PM
No.

He was a very very long way from being transparent though.

"The facts of the matter are, it has been sold. It's been sold to me"

Chris K
01-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Surely that's all past history now that Rock is defunct and those nice chaps PcW are in charge...? It seems the rent arrears are approaching £2m (2quarters at £900k).

you've massively overstated the figures there, its £300k p/q

Scoot
01-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Never

What if it means saving the club?

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Its not a trick...PcW must pay Rock's creditors off by managing the assets of Rock now that the company has folded. The ground belonged to Rock, it has a sitting tenant that isn't paying rent. Get rid of the tenant, sell the freehold, pay off the creditors, pocket the fee. PcW are getting paid to do the best for Rock creditors don't forget.

exactly. Though I'm sure they'd rather someone bought the club and then padi the o/s debt rather than going through the rigmarole and negative publicity of eviction

Richard
01-10-2009, 12:11 PM
No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?No, because your name would be on the register of title, albeit subject to a mortgage interest. CPFC has an option to purchase, which is a very different thing.

Richard
01-10-2009, 12:11 PM
I've tracked down some of SJ's wonga, allthough a lot of us knew about her anway, she finally fessed up to charging 15K a ride.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/anderton091006_228x316.jpg
Who is she ?

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
We will sell big time in the Jan window if we can, that Danns, Speroni etc etc.

And with this situation I guess it means we won't be able to hold out too long for big bids

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Who is she ?

Sophie Anderton

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Known about non payment of rent for a long time, didn't post it on here because of the response from usual suspects. What I have been told from with inside the club is that it is our non payment of rent which forced Rock into administration. There will be no takers for the ground at the price PWC are asking as who wants to own a ground when the sitting tennant isn't paying the rent. So PWC see the only options for selling the ground as a) very low price to a 3rd party who knows one day he will get a return but not in the short term, b) to the new owners of CPFC but that looks a million miles away unless administration arrives, c) CPFC leaving Selhurst which cannot / will not happen overnight.

SJ/DJ know the situation, by them not paying they firstly have more cash to keep the club afloat and secondly it makes selling the club easier, now to buy the club and the ground it is far cheaper than it was 6 months ago.

We're not doomed, but anybody who had any doubt that we are in final sh!te needs to wake up. We will sell big time in the Jan window if we can, that Danns, Speroni etc etc.This is interesting.

One problem - if I were a potential buyer I would pick up the ground now on the cheap. Force the club into admin for non payment of the rent, and pick up the club for next to nothing.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Who is she ?

Sophie Anderton.

Model, reality TV star, cokehead and £15k per hour hooker

DocSavage
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
eviction remains a lengthy process of law and vacant possession would recover even less rent than by retaining non compliant but willing tenant.

anyway goldberg could house the club in bromley and i can get the bus there direct

paf
01-10-2009, 12:12 PM
What I have been told from with inside the club is that it is our non payment of rent which forced Rock into administration.


SJ - "Paul Kelmsley, a pal of mine."

Not anymore then?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/PaulKemsleyACT_468x301.jpg

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 12:13 PM
This is interesting.

One problem - if I were a potential buyer I would pick up the ground now. Force the club into admin for non payment of the rent, and pick up the club for next to nothing.

with -10 points and our younsters sold for peanuts

thefox
01-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Oh dear this is all looking rather scary :(



Sad to say I think unless Simon is prepared to continue digging deep which to be perfectly honest even as a fan I think he is getting pretty tired of doing, then I think administration may well be inevitable unless of course we can find some miracle buyer. (Again IMHO not going to happen as anyone with any savvy will be looking at our situation waiting for admin before stealing the club at a pittance!)


You're probably right.

----------------------------------


Someone with financial knowledge and that of Palaces finances assuming someone wants to take over Palace what does Jordan lose if:

a) He packed up today and gave the club free to a new buyer ?

b) It went to administration ?

and how much would he need to sell for to cover his loses if he weren't to do the above ?

What is a realistic figure for a realistic sale to a new owner ?

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:15 PM
with -10 points and our younsters sold for peanutsYou'd lose the 10 points but not the players.

It could be easily done. SJ would be screwed though.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 12:15 PM
you've massively overstated the figures there, its £300k p/q

Agreed...its £900k apologies

paf
01-10-2009, 12:15 PM
Sophie Anderton.

Model, reality TV star, cokehead and £15k per hour hooker

SJ has form for not paying far more famous minge than her.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:16 PM
What is a realistic figure for a realistic sale to a new owner ?

Doesn't answer your question but Jordan's asking prices were (and this has probably changed) £40m with the ground or £20m without

Budgie Byrne
01-10-2009, 12:16 PM
No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?

OK who did own the freehold? Who's names (or rather which companies name) was on the deeds?

As far as I am aware it was neither SJ or Crystal Palace FC (2000 Ltd)

Of course there is a lot and smoke and mirrors with these deals and it is difficult to unwind the strings attached. There certainly a lot of spin attached to the deal. SJ may not have lied 100%, but he certainly mislead the Palace fans, compounded by the sale of T Shirts and DVD's which were at least tasteless and at worst dishonest.

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 12:16 PM
You'd lose the 10 points but not the players.

It could be easily done. SJ would be screwed though.

I hope it doesn't end like that for him, it would be harsh :(

paf
01-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Doesn't answer your question but Jordan's asking prices were (and this has probably changed) £40m with the ground or £20m without

seems a lot for four sets of goals, 12 second hand size 5 mitres and 2 tatty masoct outifts.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:18 PM
You're probably right.

----------------------------------


Someone with financial knowledge and that of Palaces finances assuming someone wants to take over Palace what does Jordan lose if:

a) He packed up today and gave the club free to a new buyer ?

b) It went to administration ?

and how much would he need to sell for to cover his loses if he weren't to do the above ?

What is a realistic figure for a realistic sale to a new owner ?a) lots, assuming they didn't want there to be any debt when they got it
b) more
c) circa £30-£40m at a guess - without the ground (that's creditors and equity), if he was not required to pay off the creditors then just £10m
d) nil (if the acquirer has any sense), what would you pay for a company that has no assets and makes a loss every year.

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:19 PM
I hope it doesn't end like that for him, it would be harsh :(Yes it would.

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Known about non payment of rent for a long time, didn't post it on here because of the response from usual suspects. What I have been told from with inside the club is that it is our non payment of rent which forced Rock into administration. There will be no takers for the ground at the price PWC are asking as who wants to own a ground when the sitting tennant isn't paying the rent. So PWC see the only options for selling the ground as a) very low price to a 3rd party who knows one day he will get a return but not in the short term, b) to the new owners of CPFC but that looks a million miles away unless administration arrives, c) CPFC leaving Selhurst which cannot / will not happen overnight.

SJ/DJ know the situation, by them not paying they firstly have more cash to keep the club afloat and secondly it makes selling the club easier, now to buy the club and the ground it is far cheaper than it was 6 months ago.

We're not doomed, but anybody who had any doubt that we are in final sh!te needs to wake up. We will sell big time in the Jan window if we can, that Danns, Speroni etc etc.

indeed - and explains how much of a blow it was at the club that we didn't sell any players at the end of the window. Clubs know we are in trouble and are prepared to hang on to get them on the cheap

palacemaniac
01-10-2009, 12:21 PM
indeed - and explains how much of a blow it was at the club that we didn't sell any players at the end of the window. Clubs know we are in trouble and are prepared to hang on to get them on the cheap

F###ing Bostock, a few million for him would have come in handy, little shit :veryangry

Sandowneagle
01-10-2009, 12:22 PM
This is interesting.

One problem - if I were a potential buyer I would pick up the ground now on the cheap. Force the club into admin for non payment of the rent, and pick up the club for next to nothing.

That's exactly what I was saying on Saturday at WBA. or anybody interesting in owning the club waits to we go into administration, agrees to buy the ground from PWC on the cheap then agrees to buy the club from the administrator. Eitherway, that ground is worth half what it was a year ago.

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 12:23 PM
Excatly - but as said previously that's ten points deducted and relegation a real possibility unless we build up a cushion on the bottom 3

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:23 PM
That's exactly what I was saying on Saturday at WBA. or anybody interesting in owning the club waits to we go into administration, agrees to buy the ground from PWC on the cheap then agrees to buy the club from the administrator. Eitherway, that ground is worth half what it was a year ago.Also if you force the club into admin, the debt holder would go for SJ for the debt as it is guaranteed. SJ has no control over the club, players would not be sold. You could potentially be in and out of admin in a day.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:24 PM
The club know this story has been out for half a day, they check the BBS so will know this debate is going on, why on earth is there no official statement?

Clapham Grand
01-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Also if you force the club into admin, the debt holder would go for SJ for the debt as it is guaranteed. SJ has no control over the club, players would not be sold. You could potentially be in and out of admin in a day.


which is why SJ is desperate to avoid admin?

thefox
01-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Doesn't answer your question but Jordan's asking prices were (and this has probably changed) £40m with the ground or £20m without

Cheers. Is that to cover his debts or for some on top for him ?


Also could forcing Rock(?) into admin mean it's possible for someone else to buy the ground for him (actually this time) at a cheaper price to carry on running the club at less cost or to buy the ground to make the club more attractive to potential buyers ? Or can he not legally buy it now by any means ?

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:25 PM
which is why SJ is desperate to avoid admin?
My take yes.

I would guess if David Gold or someone bought the ground then rent would paid very expediently from Simon's own pocket

Either way you either get a high yield asset for next to nothing or you get a club for next to nothing. You cannot lose.

Maximus Dowieus
01-10-2009, 12:27 PM
At the moment I am trying to grasp what the money has been spent on if it is not the rent, transfer fees, wages. Where the hell has that £5m gone?

It simply does not add up.

I can believe the story of the feeding of the five thousand more than I can the story of the five million.:)

Budgie Byrne
01-10-2009, 12:28 PM
You'd lose the 10 points but not the players.

It could be easily done. SJ would be screwed though.

We need to take care here. The penalty is a minimum 10 points, assuming a clean exit from administration. With the current psotion of the club, many debts and various loans and g'tee's to take the club out of administration may be difficult and a penalty of between 15 and 30 points may be the final position.

However any potential new owner may feel that this may be a penalty worth taking to avoid chucking almost £30 million away to pay of current debts.

With our fan base and more money to spend on rebuilding the club one or two seasons in tier three may well be a price worth paying for a longer term project of making the club healthy again, securing the freehold and rebuilding the relationship between fans and club.

The people I feel most sorry are the employees who must be very worried about their position this morning. They will have mortgages and families to feed.

cdm61
01-10-2009, 12:28 PM
Also if you force the club into admin, the debt holder would go for SJ for the debt as it is guaranteed. SJ has no control over the club, players would not be sold. You could potentially be in and out of admin in a day.

Ron's revenge:eek:

Richard
01-10-2009, 12:28 PM
That's exactly what I was saying on Saturday at WBA. or anybody interesting in owning the club waits to we go into administration, agrees to buy the ground from PWC on the cheap then agrees to buy the club from the administrator. Eitherway, that ground is worth half what it was a year ago.
(I emphasise that I have no inside knowledge here, but just to speculate) If he had the inclination (and the available cash), I can imagine one ex-owner of the club could be interested at purchasing back something at half what he sold it for, although to do that you would really want to buy the club as well, to ensure you had a reliable tenant.

thefox
01-10-2009, 12:29 PM
a) lots, assuming they didn't want there to be any debt when they got it
b) more
c) circa £30-£40m at a guess - without the ground (that's creditors and equity), if he was not required to pay off the creditors then just £10m
d) nil (if the acquirer has any sense), what would you pay for a company that has no assets and makes a loss every year.

Thanks.

Unfortunately that's what I thought the answer to D would be. :(

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:30 PM
We need to take care here. The penalty is a minimum 10 points, assuming a clean exit from administration. With the current psotion of the club, many debts and various loans and g'tee's to take the club out of administration may be difficult and a penalty of between 15 and 30 points may be the final position.

However any potential new owner may feel that this may be a penalty worth taking to avoid chucking almost £30 million away to pay of current debts.

With our fan base and more money to spend on rebuilding the club one or two seasons in tier three may well be a price worth paying for a longer term project of making the club healthy again, securing the freehold and rebuilding the relationship between fans and club.

The people I feel most sorry are the employees who must be very worried about their position this morning. They will have mortgages and families to feed.Agree about the employees.

Re the rest though, surely you pay off the unsecured creditors - like HMRC. The creditors pursue SJ as guarantor, and you offer say x in the pound if they cannot get it from him). You then exit clean and only get the 10 points

DocSavage
01-10-2009, 12:30 PM
hmmm

it was the daily star wasn't it?

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Ron's revenge:eek:The thought had crossed my mind to be sure.

Though I would go for the ground first.

Certainly might explain James's absence ;)

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:32 PM
hmmm

it was the daily star wasn't it?

by a freelance guy who also writes for the Times, Sunday Times and Daily Mail.

And the Trust has confirmed it

thefox
01-10-2009, 12:37 PM
What assets do the club actually have and still own and what are they worth ?

The training ground/ academy land ? Er now I'm struggling .

And are sainsburys interested in the ground for expansion apart from that would there be any interest in the ground for property in this financial climate assuming Palace weren't there ?

Adlerhorst
01-10-2009, 12:38 PM
What assets do the club actually have and still own and what are they worth ?the players' registrations, and according to the accounts, goodwill.

Sandowneagle
01-10-2009, 12:39 PM
That's me over and out for the day, promised myself several months back I would get into involved in thsi forum. I do agree iwth Budgie on many things especially feeling sorry for those that work at the club. There are a few more skeletons in the closet that is for certain, I know of a few.

The answer to the £5M question of where have we been spending it if not paying the rent? Simple, there never was £5M, we have been borrowing against anything that moves and doesn't move to keep a float as we have had a higher wage bill and cost base than we generate, especially as so much of our income was raised against long term season tickets. Plan a) was to be promoted, there was no scenario planning a few years back for plan b).

cdm61
01-10-2009, 12:39 PM
The thought had crossed my mind to be sure.

Though I would go for the ground first.

Certainly might explain James's absence ;)

Yes, that is mysterious, unless of course he was in a swish Guildford hotel...

SJ has to grovel his way out or slash and burn as he exits to pay off the creditors...me's thinks we all know which path he will take

Stellavista
01-10-2009, 12:42 PM
What assets do the club actually have and still own and what are they worth ?

The training ground/ academy land ? Er now I'm struggling .

And are sainsburys interested in the ground for expansion apart from that would there be any interest in the ground for property in this financial climate assuming Palace weren't there ?

Palace don't own the training ground,
and I'm not sure that there isn't a large loan secured against players contracts.

palacelad1970
01-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Palace don't own the training ground,
and I'm not sure that there isn't a large loan secured against players contracts.


sainsburys would love it

Chobham Eagle
01-10-2009, 12:44 PM
My take yes.

I would guess if David Gold or someone bought the ground then rent would paid very expediently from Simon's own pocket

Either way you either get a high yield asset for next to nothing or you get a club for next to nothing. You cannot lose.

It would be pretty embarrassing for SJ if he sold the club to Gold wouldn't it? Whilst that shouldn't stop him selling to Gold, it's worth remembering he was prepared to enter into a poor lease with Kemsley just to put one over on Noades.

Maximus Dowieus
01-10-2009, 12:47 PM
No.

When you buy a house, would you be lying if you said you'd bought it (even though your funds to buy it came from a building society or a bank)?

Wrong.

Q: When you buy a home (the example you have given) are you the owner or a tenant?

Q: Are Palace paying a mortgage to "buy" SP or are they paying Rent?

Q: Are Palace owners of the freehold of Selhurst Park?

Answers please.
Q: If not who owns SP?

cdm61
01-10-2009, 12:54 PM
"Administrators PricewaterhouseCoopers said Rock had crumbled because of the slowdown in the property market. The accountants indicated that in the current moribund market they are not aiming to break up and sell the portfolio of 40 properties, but will instead continue to manage them for the time being."

PcW own the freehold on behalf of Rock Investment creditors....

fang
01-10-2009, 12:54 PM
How much do the financial benefits of buying the club following administration and a 10 point deduction, outweigh the financial disadvantages of relegation to League 1?

thefox
01-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Palace don't own the training ground,
and I'm not sure that there isn't a large loan secured against players contracts.

Oh bollocks.

Il Padrino
01-10-2009, 12:57 PM
"Administrators PricewaterhouseCoopers said Rock had crumbled because of the slowdown in the property market. The accountants indicated that in the current moribund market they are not aiming to break up and sell the portfolio of 40 properties, but will instead continue to manage them for the time being."

PcW own the freehold on behalf of Rock Investment creditors....

But how do you manage a non-paying tenant?