Why most music nowadays is cr@p [Archive]

Top Dog

04-03-2002, 07:40 PM

I cannot believe how cr@p most music is these days. I am only 22 so I guess I am supposed to like it. It really is shocking though. TOTP is unwatchable now as every song fits into one of the following categories:

a) Boy/Girl band rubbish - an entire genre of cr@p music - not one good song has ever been released by any of the growing army of boy/girl bands.

b) Cr@p "hip-hop" - gone are the days of funky beats and meaningful lyrics in hip-hop, now all you get is style and no content. Dre excluded.

c) American R&B. Although why they call it rhythm and blues I have no idea seen as it contains neither element, but instead has some non-entity warbling to a nothing song.

d) New American Rock - one level above growling bands - I can't remember the last good rock album I heard.

e) Destiny's Child - the less said the better.

f) Cr@p Indie - you know who you are.

What little good music there is, never does well in the charts.

The whole industry is so incredibly commerical now - it's as if the youth are being brain-washed into buying crap pre-packaged music.

Compare what's around now to the classic bands of the sixties - The Stones, The Doors, The Small Faces, Hendrix, Marvin Gaye and all that 60s Soul, and you can only help but feel a little sick.

What's tragic is that a lot of young people (even my age) have not heard anything by these bands, so basically have no idea what good music is.

Shouldn't it be part of their basic education at school. Perhaps if people were taught what good music was from an early age they would reject the commerical rubbish being shoved down their throats?

It wasn't me!

04-03-2002, 07:43 PM

Merton Eagle

04-03-2002, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
What little good music there is, never does well in the charts.

Compare what's around now to the classic bands of the sixties - The Stones, The Doors, The Small Faces, Hendrix, Marvin Gaye and all that 60s Soul, and you can only help but feel a little sick.

What examples do you have of good modern music? Who got you into the 60s soul?

Jim Cannons Moustache

04-03-2002, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
What little good music there is, never does well in the charts.

The whole industry is so incredibly commerical now - it's as if the youth are being brain-washed into buying crap pre-packaged music.

that is chart music and its been that way for 30 years, back to the 70's and stuff by The osmonds and the Bay City Rollers and the eighties was just a string of electro commercial rubbish (plus a remarkable amount of novelty tunes). The nineties had boy and girl band stuff dominating the charts and now 90% of chart music is written by the same bunch of people.

It ain't going to change, cheese sells and it always will. No need to despair though there is still an ocean of talent behind chart music where everyone can find something they like just a matter of looking in the right places.

Top Dog

04-03-2002, 07:54 PM

But good music used to do well in the charts. All the bands I mentioned spent ages in the charts.

Random*

04-03-2002, 07:55 PM

You're right, everything on TOTP is ****.

But then, if you think that Dre is good hip-hop, you're not digging deep enough.

Mark B & Blade, Kool Keith, DJ Vadim, Scratch Perverts, Rodney P, De La Soul - all quality UK hip-hop, with none of this gangsta's with uzi's and ho's crap. Shame they're not commercial enough to get the coverage on telly, whilst the So Solid Morons do.

Just on a related subject, I've heard that one of the So Solid Crew has been convicted of posessing a firearm, and threatening a traffic policeman with it. He could go down for 10 years... which would be amusing to say the least.

Elephant with mouse gyp

04-03-2002, 07:58 PM

There always has been crap around, honestly Top Dog.

Chart music itself may have got worse over time, but this is more a function of the age of single-buyers rather than the lack of good music.

Jim Cannons Moustache

04-03-2002, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
But good music used to do well in the charts. All the bands I mentioned spent ages in the charts.

but music has diversified incredibly since those days, the market place is diluted and it stands to reason that the music that does well in the charts is the commercial stuff that everybody hears because the rich record companies flood the radio stations and tv channels with it.

You can blame the record companies for standards falling but they would say they are there to make money and that is what they do.

Top Dog

04-03-2002, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Merton Eagle

What examples do you have of good modern music? Who got you into the 60s soul?

If you mean the last few years I really am struggling. I like The Strokes, Coldplay and Jurassic 5....

I think seeing the Blues Brothers aged 8 or 9 got me into Soul and Blues.

Sunny Fan

04-03-2002, 08:03 PM

When I was growing up we had fecking Jonathan King and Benny Hill clogging up the charts fer christ's sake!
Grandma we love you? Floral dance? Mull of Kintyre?
Be thankful :)

AJ1969

04-03-2002, 08:05 PM

It's all too commercial and is now too focused on hollywood virtues.

Top Dog

04-03-2002, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Random*
You're right, everything on TOTP is ****.

But then, if you think that Dre is good hip-hop, you're not digging deep enough.

Mark B & Blade, Kool Keith, DJ Vadim, Scratch Perverts, Rodney P, De La Soul - all quality UK hip-hop, with none of this gangsta's with uzi's and ho's crap. Shame they're not commercial enough to get the coverage on telly, whilst the So Solid Morons do.

Just on a related subject, I've heard that one of the So Solid Crew has been convicted of posessing a firearm, and threatening a traffic policeman with it. He could go down for 10 years... which would be amusing to say the least.

Dre is commercial but can still hit the spot.

Oh God. How could I forget So Solid Crew - possibly the most distrubingly cr@p band ever. I hope he gets life, then gets perpetually butt-raped in jail! It would be like divine justice.

In fact I just remembered another genre that is also entirely cr@p - Garage!

Oh, and Drum And Bass too.

LLCOOLSTEVE

04-03-2002, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Random*

if you think that Dre is good hip-hop,

Dre is behind every good hip hop tune.......:afro:

Random*

04-03-2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Dre is behind every good hip hop tune.......:afro:

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'good', and 'hip-hop'. He's got bugger all influence over hip-hop on this side of the pond (good thing), but, yes he has quite a wide influence on the stuff coming out of the USA, which probably explains why most of it sounds the tired, same stuff, repackaged - the exceptions seem to be The Spooks, Dilated Peoples a bit of Jay-Z, and an awful lot of Busta's stuff.

Chocky

04-03-2002, 08:23 PM

I am sick to the teeth of all this boy/girl band SH*T. We need something to come along like it did in the mid 70s when punk & new wave emerged and wiped out all the glam rubbish.

But I do think there was worse tat around in the 70s like the already mentioned grandma/grandad songs and Terry Wogan singing, or trying to.

Didn't we have a loverlee time the day we went to Bangor.

Ah shaddupa you face.

Del Gland

04-03-2002, 08:25 PM

It was interesting to see that Bluegrass music did so well at the Grammies. Perhaps people are finally that sick of the current scene that they are looking for some honest "roots" music.

I personally like all kinds of music from Alison Krauss to Tool and Underworld and never watch TOTP or any TV pop shows as the whole chart thing is an advertising ploy.

When you look back at the Guinness book of records in the future and see that Will Young not only sold over a million in the first week, but also sold more than the rest of the top 200 put together, you will realise how bad the music scene is here. For chrissakes, the Beatles and the Stones came from this country.

Don't blame the Americans, they encompass many genres of music, and although some of it is pretty tedious, there is some great stuff in there. They also benefit greatly from a spread of FM radio stations that allow you to listen to a certain type of music when you feel like listening to it. This is unlike here with the limited playlists and the obvious payola scandal that is going on regularly.

At the end of the day, you just have to choose for yourself and enjoy it. It's not an elitist thing!

jlmatthews

04-03-2002, 08:28 PM

How you like me now
Gold Teef as I smile
You take me out the ghetto
But I'm still buck wild.

Long live hip hop, Indie, and Rock!

If you don't like the new music don't listen to it. It is that simple innit.

LLCOOLSTEVE

04-03-2002, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Random*

and an awful lot of Busta's stuff.

but then Dre guests on Busta's new video..........not sure if he has had any influence on the tune itself.

LLCOOLSTEVE

04-03-2002, 08:34 PM

personally as far as hip hop goes i cant stop playing.....Naughty by Nature......"nineteen naughty nine" album.........aiiiight.

2can

04-03-2002, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

f) Cr@p Indie - you know who you are.

They may know who they are, but I don't - examples?

Don-Donovani

04-03-2002, 08:46 PM

Get hold of a copy of 'Groovin' with Mr Bloe' for an appreciation of how sad music could be in the 70's. On the other hand, London Calling or Sandanista by the Clash showed the heights to which music could aspire in the same decade.

Each decade throws up its winners and losers, the trick is to find/listen to the winners and ignore/laugh at the losers. Gotta say though as the decades roll along, it does become trickier. Wider choice and more diverse genres I suppose. Will Young - pop star ..........??? :rolleyes:

Ian of Chatham

04-03-2002, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
I cannot believe how cr@p most music is these days. I am only 22 so I guess I am supposed to like it. It really is shocking though. TOTP is unwatchable now as every song fits into one of the following categories:

a) Boy/Girl band rubbish - an entire genre of cr@p music - not one good song has ever been released by any of the growing army of boy/girl bands.

b) Cr@p "hip-hop" - gone are the days of funky beats and meaningful lyrics in hip-hop, now all you get is style and no content. Dre excluded.

c) American R&B. Although why they call it rhythm and blues I have no idea seen as it contains neither element, but instead has some non-entity warbling to a nothing song.

d) New American Rock - one level above growling bands - I can't remember the last good rock album I heard.

e) Destiny's Child - the less said the better.

f) Cr@p Indie - you know who you are.

What little good music there is, never does well in the charts.

The whole industry is so incredibly commerical now - it's as if the youth are being brain-washed into buying crap pre-packaged music.
I can't really comment on d) or f) as I'm not really a fan of those two types of music.

I agree with you on c) even though I like some of that music, it should not be called R(hythm) and B(lues) at most of the music contains neither.A similar thread on the subject can be found here (http://cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5327)
I think they are running out of names for different genres of music to be honest, while on this subject I was a big fan of "House" and "Electro" music, not the type that can be heard on Kiss 100 today, but the real stuff, the music of the early/mid 80s which descended from the warehouse parties in Chicago and the ghettos of the South Bronx respectively.

as for b) I don't agree with your last bit, that stuff is absolutely Dre-adful. Hip Hop is not the same as it was in the early 80s.

As for e) I agree. See my comments on the R and B thread I have linked above.

a) - Boy/girl bands are overhyped and their record sales depend on how pretty they all are and how many details they reveal about their private lives, rather than the songs that they sing, I strongly believe that there are people out there who buy their singles without a clue how the song actually sounds like, which may explain the glut of records which come from nowhere and enter the Top 40 straight in at No. 1 these days.

GUCCI Eagle

04-03-2002, 09:37 PM

Exactly what issues does Dr Dre talk about that you empathise with so much?

bucketbongeagle

04-03-2002, 09:51 PM

I don't think the charts are any better or worse than they ever have been, I agree it's basically crap by the charts has always been like that, 60's,70's, 80's, 90's charts rammed full of crappy music for kids - whats the difference ?

Boris the charltonhater

05-03-2002, 12:27 AM

Bad types of music:

1) R&B
2) Garage
3) Hip Hop
4) Rap
5) Dance

Take this gunk out the charts and I can cope with Westlife, Hear'say and Elton John.

Riccardo

05-03-2002, 12:29 AM

Didn't I start this thread about a month ago..... :rolleyes:

Tim of the 80's

05-03-2002, 01:01 AM

I have a couple of theories about this.

Pop or whatever used to be a much bigger business than it is now. 25 or more years ago, number 1 singles used regularly to sell hundreds of thousands, millions of copies. A million selling single now is very rare indeed. You can get to number 1 by selling 30,000 copies. One reason for this was that things like video games came along and suddenly there was other stuff around competeing for money that used to be spent on records.

Plus, in the 60's and 70's, there were plenty of record companies who were willing to take a chance, some, because they really didn't know what would be a hit or why but just wanted a piece of the action and others who were smart enough or groundbreaking.

Now you have a smaller market with record companies who are less willing to take chances.Their shareholders are pension funds who want profits today. So you get more manufactured groups who will be designed to sell lots of records to a previously identified market, ie boy bands, girl bands or whatever.

It's quite right that there has always been loads of old toot in the charts, but I reckon the lack of opportunity for genuinely new and exciting stuff to be heard has increased the ratio.

And, rock is nearly 50 years old now and there are only so many chords that you can write a song with.

Sir.S.C Remembered

05-03-2002, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Random*

the exceptions seem to be The Spooks, Dilated Peoples a bit of Jay-Z, and an awful lot of Busta's stuff.

Good choices there but dont know dialated peoples! The spooks lead singer really had a voice on her too and Jay Z has a few good songs e.g H to the IZzo and Busta has always been a bit different.

Good poppy people= R Kelly, Blue (and i like Misteeq even though all their songs sound the same!)

And some of the pop songs are quite good!

But i get nuff stick from mates coz i listen to HEART 106.2 sometimes to get a break from the techno cr@p on Kiss sometimes! Nice to hear a few Gabrielle softcore stuff. P.S KID JENSEN ON HEART IS A PALACE FAN! HE EVEN E MAILED ME A RESPONS TO A FEW QUESITONS REGARDING THIS ISSUE! 15 year regular is he!

LLCOOLSTEVE

05-03-2002, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by GUCCI Eagle
Exactly what issues does Dr Dre talk about that you empathise with so much?

Dont have to empathise with the issue's that he talks about to enjoy his beats! I mean who can not enjoy "next episode" !

"Hold up.........."

Random*

05-03-2002, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
Good choices there but dont know dialated peoples!

Good poppy people= R Kelly, Blue (and i like Misteeq even though all their songs sound the same!)

Look up 'Worst comes to worst' by the Dilated Peoples... if you like the other stuff, you should eat this up.

As for R.Kelly and Blue... well, how do you make a big raspberry sound on the BBS? :sob:

LLCOOLSTEVE

05-03-2002, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by Random*

Look up 'Worst comes to worst' by the Dilated Peoples... if you like the other stuff, you should eat this up.

yeah, quality tune................:p best they have done.:)

The Omen

05-03-2002, 12:48 PM

Can I recomend getting the new compilation album 'Pure Genius'. I'll think you will find many talented song writers and artists on there.

Top Dog

05-03-2002, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered

Good choices there but dont know dialated peoples! The spooks lead singer really had a voice on her too and Jay Z has a few good songs e.g H to the IZzo and Busta has always been a bit different.

Good poppy people= R Kelly, Blue (and i like Misteeq even though all their songs sound the same!)

And some of the pop songs are quite good!

But i get nuff stick from mates coz i listen to HEART 106.2 sometimes to get a break from the techno cr@p on Kiss sometimes! Nice to hear a few Gabrielle softcore stuff. P.S KID JENSEN ON HEART IS A PALACE FAN! HE EVEN E MAILED ME A RESPONS TO A FEW QUESITONS REGARDING THIS ISSUE! 15 year regular is he!

Oh dear Sir C, oh dear.

You like R Kelly, Blue and Gabrielle. :sob: I think this proves my point about people not knowing what good music is anymore.

From this moment on I will have zero respect for you.

Rock And Roll is obviously dead. :sob:

R Kelly is in competition with Craig David for most talentless tw@t in pop.

GUCCI Eagle

05-03-2002, 03:48 PM

I have zero respect for music snobs, if you don't like some music, but it makes me tap my foot or sing along, then I really couldn't care less.

05-03-2002, 03:58 PM

For me the beginning of the end was when the DJs became more important than the musicians. They're there to play the bloody records, ferchristsake....

Top Dog

05-03-2002, 04:03 PM

So if your favourite five bands of all time were:

a) Steps
b) The Spice Girls
c) Bananarama
d) Ocean Colour Scene
e) Craig David

I would be expected to take you seriously as an individual (?) and respect anything you had to say?!

Sunny Fan

05-03-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Oh dear Sir C, oh dear.

You like R Kelly, Blue and Gabrielle. :sob: I think this proves my point about people not knowing what good music is anymore.

From this moment on I will have zero respect for you.

Do you realise how much of an arrogant **** you appear to be with statements like that?
Who are you to say definitively what is good and what is not? That music is pleasing to Sir S C's ear, so it has value whether you like it or not.
I don't like that music either, but I wouldn't dismiss someone who does as worthless.
I'd imagine he might not welcome your respect anyway.

GUCCI Eagle

05-03-2002, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Sunny Fan

Do you realise how much of an arrogant **** you appear to be with statements like that?
Who are you to say definitively what is good and what is not? That music is pleasing to Sir S C's ear, so it has value whether you like it or not.
I don't like that music either, but I wouldn't dismiss someone who does as worthless.
I'd imagine he might not welcome your respect anyway.

Exactly. Very well put sir!

Top Dog

05-03-2002, 04:31 PM

I didn't mean to cause offensive but...

Come on! Of course there is such a good thing as good and bad music.

You're not one of those people who thinks nothing can be classed as good or bad, but everything is purely down to individual opinion.

Just as there is fine cuisine and junk food, there are great films and cr@p films. Great music and awful music. Brilliant novels and Barbara Cartland novels.

Certain songs and films simply achieve a reaction or emotion at some level that is indescribably moving/entertaining.

Music is like anything - the more you study it, the more you appreciate what truly great music is. I'm afraid Sir C has just been lazy, and not discovered much great music, so his standards are lower than others.

Are you seriously telling me that say "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys is not definetely a better song than "Mambo No 5" by Bob The Builder??

By your theory we should never condemn anything as wrong. Fascism for example, or racism. As who can say what is "right" and "wrong" - everyone should be allowed their opinions etc

It's a real shame that a lot of people don't know what goos music is anymore, and frankly, the people who do know have an obligation to pass on their knowledge and experience.

Yes, music snobbery can go too far.

But a certain amount is a good thing.

g23

05-03-2002, 04:58 PM

There is only one way objectively to analyse music - a form of Reader Reception Theory (Wolfgang Iser, for those who are interested). Determine what music is for - we might say entertainment in general, although different types may have different specific functions. Then ask someone if they are entertained. If the answer is yes, then it's good music. If there are 500 no and one yes, it's good music to one person.

Chart music is good music for the millions who consume it. To make value judgements on the assumed worth of those people as a result is asinine at best. Having studied some music theory (I regret, to Grade Seven level only) and played in numerous concerts and recitals, I can certainly sympathise that, say, Bach is technically superior to the Backstreet Boys. But this is a function of analysis, not enjoyment and therefore largely irrelevant.

May I suggest that if you aspire to be a music snob, that's a fine thing to be. It's a posture I like to adopt myself fairly regularly. Two pointers:

1. It reflects no credit on yourself to diminish others by your assumed superiority.
2. If you're going to expound on great music, you might like to refine the selections you've illustrated so far - not nearly esoteric enough. Still, that'll come with time.

God bless.

Sunny Fan

05-03-2002, 04:58 PM

It was more your attitude than opinion which I found offensive.

Sunny Fan

05-03-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
By your theory we should never condone anything as wrong. Fascism for example, or racism. As who can say what is "right" and "wrong" - everyone should be allowed their opinions etc

I'd rather condemn something if it's wrong;)
And be hypocritical by being patronising back

Top Dog

05-03-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by g23
There is only one way objectively to analyse music - a form of Reader Reception Theory (Wolfgang Iser, for those who are interested). Determine what music is for - we might say entertainment in general, although different types may have different specific functions. Then ask someone if they are entertained. If the answer is yes, then it's good music. If there are 500 no and one yes, it's good music to one person.

Chart music is good music for the millions who consume it. To make value judgements on the assumed worth of those people as a result is asinine at best. Having studied some music theory (I regret, to Grade Seven level only) and played in numerous concerts and recitals, I can certainly sympathise that, say, Bach is technically superior to the Backstreet Boys. But this is a function of analysis, not enjoyment and therefore largely irrelevant.

By your logic every film, song and TV programme ever made has been good, because at least one person must have liked them.

Utter nonsense.

Sunny Fan

05-03-2002, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

By your logic every film, song and TV programme ever made has been good, because at least one person must have liked them.

Utter nonsense.
If I may be allowed to speak for g23 here, I think he was talking about value judgements of the people, rather than the art.

("The assumed worth of those people")

Top Dog

05-03-2002, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Sunny Fan
It was more your attitude than opinion which I found offensive.

Fair enough. I have got quite a bad attitude.

northernsouler

05-03-2002, 05:21 PM

sometimes it's hard to be a woman..

DANGERMOUSE

05-03-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Random*

Look up 'Worst comes to worst' by the Dilated Peoples... if you like the other stuff, you should eat this up.

The only reason why people like rubbish like this is because they rip off samples of good stuff. For example, this travesty was on M.T.V. the other day, and steals from 'I Forgot to be Your Lover' by William Bell. Sadly, few know who William Bell is.

There is good or bad in any genre (however, some genres have far more bad than good - I personally would include rap, garage, modern R&B and nu metal, for example) but I dislike musical snobs. You need to take a relative measure.

For example, I cannot stand manufactured boy/girl bands, generally speaking. Yet I do admit that the majority of the Spice Girls, Steps and S Club 7 songs were good pop songs you could sing along to. Nothing more, nothing less. However, the majority of artists in this class do not have the quality of writing to produce good, universal pop songs.

The trouble is the music industry 'picks' a genre and does it to death. For the past few years it has been boy/girl bands; now it looks like that interminable nu metal nonsense will be with us for years. Before, music came from the ground up - labels would sign bands from the pool of talent that was developing; now labels audition their own acts and ignore grass roots. That is why the charts are artificially stuffed with only a few kinds of music.

Incidentally, Tim of the '80s is right about singles declining (though now more are sold in the U.K. than U.S., unbelievably!) and much of this is down to labels using singles as adverts for albums, and pushing album sales more than singles. As someone who principally favours yer '60s/indie type of stuff, I've often had drunken conversations with mates bemoaning the fact that bands don't release single singles any more (as opposed to album singles). Economics is the reason - it costs so much to promote/hype a single now that if there isn't a related album, companies don't want to know. This means music is stale and stilted, and singles become less attractive once the album is out, unless you are a hardcore completist who wants the B-sides.

lost it

05-03-2002, 05:55 PM

I think Pop Idol shows just what a state music is in at the moment. I have to admit that I did watch the program week in week out (morbid curiosity), but then I also happen to know a certain Top Dog watched some of it. Anyway the absolutely *****, trite, crap double A side that has been brought out by the winner is typical of what is wrong with music today. He actually can sing but is lumbered with inane lyrics and cheesy melodies that has bugger all to with anything. It is irrelevant music, actually it isnt music, it's noise. A ridiculous amount of the country voted for someone to become a carbon copy of all the bollox that is already out there. I am saddened and sickened by this. I'm off to hang my head in shame as I was actually a voter. I'm sorry.

2can

05-03-2002, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
So if your favourite five bands of all time were:

d) Ocean Colour Scene

I would be expected to take you seriously as an individual (?) and respect anything you had to say?!

Nothing wrong with Ocean Colour Scene!

lost it

05-03-2002, 08:13 PM

Ocean Colour Scene are **** and you know it! Boring, unoriginal bollox.

biggus mickus

05-03-2002, 08:56 PM

I think music today would improve if, the bands could play something.
Most are studio built, or put together just to look good. When a real band gets together, the lables do not like chucking money at them. As for writers, please write something new. Covers, covers and more covers.

Fat Andy

05-03-2002, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
So if your favourite five bands of all time were:

a) Steps
b) The Spice Girls
c) Bananarama
d) Ocean Colour Scene
e) Craig David

I would be expected to take you seriously as an individual (?) and respect anything you had to say?!

It's all opinions,those are all very successful groups and obviously appeal to a lot of people. You've said on another thread that you like Daft Punk, not exactly music pioneers, should anyone take you seriously as an individual then ?

Levski

05-03-2002, 09:10 PM

Want to hear some decent new music?

Th new Masters At Work album is out now on vinyl boxed set.
The CD comes out in April. Totally outclasses anything being produced in house music, let alone commercial pop that is designed for and consumed by kiddies.

Each to their own, but there is plenty of decent music available if you get outside of commercial circles.

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Fat Andy

It's all opinions,those are all very successful groups and obviously appeal to a lot of people. You've said on another thread that you like Daft Punk, not exactly music pioneers, should anyone take you seriously as an individual then ?

It doesn't matter that a lot of people liked these bands. Well it does - that's the whole point! But what I mean is it doesn't make them good. It shows that people don't have a clue anymore and are lapping up all the commerical garbage being thrown at them.

I actually find it offensive that someone would own a Steps album and not have anything by Hendrix or The Doors.

Perhaps the key is to introduce a seperate under 14s chart to house all the boybandy cr@p and one for the adults - this would degrade the genre nicely and imply to these youngsters that they need to grow out of it at some point. That's what Steps and S Club are for - kids. As long as people grow out of it that's fine.

Re: Daft Punk. I said I liked them, not that they were my favourite group of all time, or anywhere near. However they have been pioneers in a small way - their stuff is very original and their surreal dance sound is certainly unique. Great videos as well. In comparison to the bands hitherto mentioned, they are Gods of creation.

Sweetpea!

06-03-2002, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Sunny Fan
It was more your attitude than opinion which I found offensive.

Blimey, it's not often someone gets SF's hackles up! :eek: LOFL

lost it

06-03-2002, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

It doesn't matter that a lot of people liked these bands. Well it does - that's the whole point! But what I mean is it doesn't make them good. It shows that people don't have a clue anymore and are lapping up all the commerical garbage being thrown at them.

I actually find it offensive that someone would own a Steps album and not have anything by Hendrix or The Doors.

Perhaps the key is to introduce a seperate under 14s chart to house all the boybandy cr@p and one for the adults - this would degrade the genre nicely and imply to these youngsters that they need to grow out of it at some point. That's what Steps and S Club are for - kids. As long as people grow out of it that's fine.

Re: Daft Punk. I said I liked them, not that they were my favourite group of all time, or anywhere near. However they have been pioneers in a small way - their stuff is very original and their surreal dance sound is certainly unique. Great videos as well. In comparison to the bands hitherto mentioned, they are Gods of creation.

I totally agree with all of the above. I triesd to post a message yesterday but my system crashed. basicly whoever questioned taking
Top Dog seriously as an individual after his Daft Punk comment needs to read the above. How you could even try to compare Daft Punk with such crap as Steps etc I dont know. At least daft Punk are not regurgiatating the stuff they have had to swallow over the years that is just insulting to the word music.

An under 14 chart is not a bad idea. I do have a certain fondness for S Club but I recognise the vacuousness. C'mon guys I know there are some real music fans out there who share Top Dogs sentiments.

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Levski
Want to hear some decent new music?

Th new Masters At Work album is out now on vinyl boxed set.
The CD comes out in April. Totally outclasses anything being produced in house music, let alone commercial pop that is designed for and consumed by kiddies.

Each to their own, but there is plenty of decent music available if you get outside of commercial circles.

Look Levski: you've missed the point too.

House music is pants.

The Omen

06-03-2002, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Look Levski: you've missed the point too.

House music is pants.

This thread is making you look like a right ****. You are coming across like you really believe just because you think something is crap - everyone else should too.

A lot of the music you have mentioned you like - I don't. That doesn't mean I think its bad music though, I think it is very good and shows a lot of talent, but I still don't chose to listen to it and it doesn't make me any worse a person because I don't.

I think you should be taking this view about everyone elses tastes instead of being an arrogant tit.

Ian of Chatham

06-03-2002, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
I actually find it offensive that someone would own a Steps album and not have anything by Hendrix or The Doors.
I don't have a Steps album, but I don't have a Hendrix or Doors album either, so I'm sorry you will find me only 66 percent offensive. I must try harder next time.:D

philaire

06-03-2002, 03:56 PM

I think the cr@p quotient has increased over the last few years due to 2 factors:

- an increase in the number of bands who never really play/sing live. Miming in concert to punters who have handed over their money approaches a crime againmst humanity.

- increasingly dummy-proof technology which ensures the most tone-deaf bimbo can come out of a recording studio with pitch-perfect vocals.

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

This thread is making you look like a right ****. You are coming across like you really believe just because you think something is crap - everyone else should too.

A lot of the music you have mentioned you like - I don't. That doesn't mean I think its bad music though, I think it is very good and shows a lot of talent, but I still don't chose to listen to it and it doesn't make me any worse a person because I don't.

I think you should be taking this view about everyone elses tastes instead of being an arrogant tit.

Omen - this thread is making YOU look like a complete c**t. You are coming across like you truly believe that there is no such thing as good or bad in life.

A lot of music is down to taste - that's a good thing. I wouldn't expect or want to agree with everyone about everything. As long as people play their own instruments and write their own songs and attempt to be original and creative then fair play. That's what it SHOULD all be about.

However, moat of the muisc industry is a cynical money-making machine which has lost all notion of what making music is supposed to be about.

House and techno and drum and bass are different - they are not normally commercial. That's the only good thing you can say though. They are not songs but rather noise to listen to when you're off your tits. Anyone with a real interest in good music, will not have time for this rubbish which all sounds the same anyway.

I think you should be trying to learn something about what good music really is rather than showing yourself up as not having a clue.

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by philaire
I think the cr@p quotient has increased over the last few years due to 2 factors:

- an increase in the number of bands who never really play/sing live. Miming in concert to punters who have handed over their money approaches a crime against humanity.

You're right of course - it is a crime. But not to the punters. They're part of the problem, not the solution. They want to "hear" their band sing perfectly, they probably can't tell they're miming anyway - they don't know any better. Very sad.

oli

06-03-2002, 04:23 PM

Top dog - you really are showing yourself to be very narrow minded and seem to base your opinions on very little. Have you ever heard any drum and bass or house music !!!!

Your initial criteria for judging music appears to be whether people have composed and played their own tunes - have you never heard of (mercury award winning) Roni size's tunes. Played d & b live on many occasions with live instrumentation, just drums, double bass and vocals.

If you are wanting to make judgements you should arm yourself with some knowledge of the subject first - to sweepingly describe two of the most vital and ground breaking musical and technological genres of the last ten years as noise to dance to when you are off your tits just shows off your blinkers nicely mate.

I used to be a music snob as well then I realised it was more fun just to listen to whatever sounded good and put a smile on my face even if that is S Club !!!

Chris K

06-03-2002, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

House and techno and drum and bass are different - they are not normally commercial. That's the only good thing you can say though. They are not songs but rather noise to listen to when you're off your tits. Anyone with a real interest in good music, will not have time for this rubbish which all sounds the same anyway.

I can't believe you have just managed to produce such a **** comment. Yes there are tunes under this genres that are simply produced crap but is that not the same with all styles? I know a number of producers of Electro, Hardcore and Hard House and I have seen first hand the amount of effort they put in to writing good quality music. Granted some might not be able be able to play a traditional intrument but give them some sound modules etc then they are able to produce some mind blowing music.

And don't come out with that toss that its all just noise for whne you're off your tits because its very boring. Did you know in the early 1980's when House music was starting at clubs such as the Warehouse (Chicago) neither the djs, producers or even the club go-ers took drugs?

Didn't think so. So stop talking absolute crap about styles of music that you clearly know bugger all about. And as for it all sounding the same, try actually listening to music rather than coming out with comments like that.

As for someone elses comment about the dj now being more important than those that right it. Hmmm if you look at the dj's at the forefront of each scene you will notice that the ones that get most recognition are the ones that produce material.

Dodger

06-03-2002, 05:03 PM

I can't believe that any proper music snob would watch Top of the Pops and be concerned about the quality of music.

The statement 'most music nowadays is crap' in my mind only shows your own inabaility to explore what is available. Whilst the majority of music on TV and mainstream radio is commercial and made up of boy/girl bands it is only serving what the public desire.

There are pubs/bars/clubs right across the country showing new talent every day. Also, if your ability to shop for music stretches only as far as the top 40 singles in HMV then you're just not trying hard enough. Nearly every town has a 'proper' music shop and through the Internet you can listen to and purchase from basically any artist across the world.

Most music on TV and Radio is for entertainment, sure it may not be to your liking but it is popular. However, if you want to listen to something you consider better then just simply switch off the TV and put on your record/cd player.

It's not difficult is it?

The Omen

06-03-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Omen - this thread is making YOU look like a complete c**t. You are coming across like you truly believe that there is no such thing as good or bad in life.

For a start I called you a tw@t, not a c**t, I would never call someone a swear word as harsh as you used to describe me.

Secondly, there is such a thing a bad music, but a lot of the stuff you list as bad is not - it just provides for a different audience.

Doesn't it worry you how many people disagree with you on this thread.

You want to be a music snob, but your swearing, name calling and un-informative comments make you just a wannabe.

lost it

06-03-2002, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

For a start I called you a tw@t, not a c**t, I would never call someone a swear word as harsh as you used to describe me.

Secondly, there is such a thing a bad music, but a lot of the stuff you list as bad is not - it just provides for a different audience.

Doesn't it worry you how many people disagree with you on this thread.

You want to be a music snob, but your swearing, name calling and un-informative comments make you just a wannabe.

Its interesting that you ask the question whether or not Top Dog worries that people disagree with him. I find it interesting because you are obviously so scared of what other people think you cannot form a decent opinion. Get off the fence, grow up and form an opinion of your own rather than slag someone else off for theirs.

Dodger - I think you are the sweetest and naevist person in the world if you really think people werent doing drugs in those early 80's. Your attitude is refreshing yet sadly lacking in a sense of reality, but good luck to you.

I agree with Dodger that all thi boy/girl **** is pandering to wghat some people think. It is unfortunate that so many so called humans buy that terrible noise. It sadenns me to think that the great unwashed are indeed wanting and enjotying things such as Westlife. Tragic.

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by lost it

I agree with Dodger that all thi boy/girl **** is pandering to wghat some people think. It is unfortunate that so many so called humans buy that terrible noise. It sadenns me to think that the great unwashed are indeed wanting and enjotying things such as Westlife. Tragic.

That must be the worst bit of typing I've ever read on the BBS. Melvin makes more sense than you do.

I take it you are a friend of Top Dog? :rolleyes: I have my oppinions, but I don't have to shove them down other peoples throats in an immature way to get them noticed.

Sweetpea!

06-03-2002, 06:08 PM

Is there really any point to this argument?

Sweetpea!

06-03-2002, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

That must be the worst bit of typing I've ever read on the BBS.

Wicked news for me then! :D :D :cool:

Sweetpea!

06-03-2002, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by The Omen
I have my oppinions, but I don't have to shove them down other peoples throats in an immature way to get them noticed.

As Psycokiller and I found, it is much more fun to shove cucumbers up you arse. :)

lost it

06-03-2002, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

That must be the worst bit of typing I've ever read on the BBS. Melvin makes more sense than you do.

I take it you are a friend of Top Dog? :rolleyes: I have my oppinions, but I don't have to shove them down other peoples throats in an immature way to get them noticed.

Sorry about crap spelling, I type very quickly and couldn't be arsed to correct it. Get used to to it though, it will no doubt continue. Anyway what makes you think I am a friend of Top Dog? Maybe I just disagree with what you are saying. It's amusing that you deflect my comments by focusing on my apalling typing skills. That rolleyes thing, what was that about?

The Omen, I'd be interested to hear your what your desert island disk is. You have one album to take away with you and there is no hope of ever listening to another ever again. So what do you chose?

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Sweetpea!

As Psycokiller and I found, it is much more fun to shove cucumbers up you arse. :)

Sorry Top Dog - someone else has just grabbed my attention!! :eek: :D

Skin Up

06-03-2002, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

I have my oppinions, but I don't have to shove them down other peoples throats in an immature way to get them noticed.

Isn't that the whole point of posting a message?

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Sweetpea!
Is there really any point to this argument?

Is there a "point" to any argument?

The point was I'm pissed off with the state of music and the fact that no-one seems to have any taste anymore, and that people don't question the pap they are regularily served up.

Some of the above posts just go to show how truly ignorant people are.

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by lost it

You have one album to take away with you and there is no hope of ever listening to another ever again. So what do you chose?

Tough one - I own over 500 cds and to pick one is pretty imposible!! At the moment, I would choose Alicia Keys. I think her voice and song -writing ability is absolutely amazing.

lost it

06-03-2002, 06:30 PM

Skin up - I agree!

The Omen - still waiting for your desert island disk

Top Dog - You there?

Sweetpea - you tried anything other than cucumbers? Enquiring minds want to know!

unrelated question - whats the male/female ratio here?

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Some of the above posts just go to show how truly ignorant people are.

How very true! :D

lost it

06-03-2002, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

Tough one - I own over 500 cds and to pick one is pretty imposible!! At the moment, I would choose Alicia Keys. I think her voice and song -writing ability is absolutely amazing.

Now, from earlier posts you'd think I was going to rip that to shreds wouldnt you? Well normally you would be right but I've not heard much of her stuff, only the one song. Isnt she that young bird?

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by lost it

Now, from earlier posts you'd think I was going to rip that to shreds wouldnt you? Well normally you would be right but I've not heard much of her stuff, only the one song. Isnt she that young bird?

http://www.aliciakeys.com/imgs/photo_1_08_bg.jpg

Alicia Keys artistic light is so bright it could illuminate a pitch-black room. A true musical prodigy whose multi-dimensional gifts emerged at age five, the beautiful Alicia will soon take modern R&B soul to a whole new level at the tender age of nineteen.

Born aware of her old soul yet living in New YorkÆs inner city amidst the dominance of Biggie and Jay Z, AliciaÆs natural talents blossomed into a rare mix of hip-hop flavor and insightful, wise-beyond-her-years songwriting. Coupling this with the singerÆs spine-tingling vocal power, positively stirring live performances and expertise as a classically trained pianist, Alicia Keys could be this generationÆs Roberta Flack.

Highly sought-after by record labels that held good, old-fashioned bidding wars in her honor, Alicia signed to Arista Records in 1998. There, in the spirit of a genius like DÆAngelo or Prince, she continued the process of writing, producing and recording the debut sheÆd begun penning at age 14.

In late 1999, Alicia followed Clive Davis to his new J Records where she continues to chart her arrival to the music world. Creations now rising out of the studio show signs of both a critical and commercial monster - a deep, melodic, soulful gem of an album that showcases Alicia in all her universal glory. Though most of the album- including the luminous "Fallin'" and the moving "Troubles" - was written and produced by Alicia Keys, the artist collaborates with Jermaine Dupri on "Girlfriend" and with Isaac Hayes on "Rock Wit U" from the Shaft soundtrack. Her debut album, Songs in A Minor, is set for release on J Records in late June.

Born and raised in Manhattan, the stunning, bi-racial Alicia Keys recognizes a number of influences including her ultra-supportive mother who told her "You can quit anything else but you can never give up on your piano lessons." Alicia also sites a teacher at the Professional Performance Arts School in Manhattan who, while she was majoring in Choir, gave her valuable instruction on her voice. "This teacher spent so much time with me, she became the closest thing to vocal training I received," Alicia recalls.

At age 16, AliciaÆs outstanding grades allowed her to finish high school early. "I was so deeply involved in music, I had already outgrown all the pressure of high school cliques and gossip." Right out of high school, Columbia University accepted Alicia Keys and though she gave it a whirl, the desire to focus on music was the driving force over all else.

Steve M

06-03-2002, 06:38 PM

While there is a lot of junk around, surely the state of the music industry is no worse than cinama or TV?

To my mind, what is ignorant is to make sweeping statements like, 'All music in genre x is crap.' People who really love music (and for me I love music more than Palace :eek: ) devour anything from any genre that's 'good'. I saw John Peel on Room 101 the other day and he mentioned that at the moment he's listening to Death Metal! A joke quite possibly, but a neat illustration of the point. I honestly can't think of a single type of music in which I like nothing. Garage maybe? Hang on, what about MJ Cole? Country? Well, the wholly wonderful Beth Orton certainly has country influences. Pop? What about some of Kylie's stuff? Some people need to get out and explore what's out there before slagging off things they know nothing about.

Anyway, I'm off home to listen to S Club 7...

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:39 PM

Sweetpea!

06-03-2002, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Is there a "point" to any argument?

The point was I'm pissed off with the state of music and the fact that no-one seems to have any taste anymore, and that people don't question the pap they are regularily served up.

Some of the above posts just go to show how truly ignorant people are.

I got taste - my iced bun tasted yummy.

I see your point, alot of modern music is **** (in my opinion), and a lot of it very nothingy, annoying and samish. Yet, people are buying it, so in their opinion is must be good.

You should not judge someone by the music they listen to. Besides, you can not help what you like.

I have to admit, when it comes to the music that I like, I have been fairley influenced by people I know.

I hate being asked, 'What music do you like?' My reply would be, 'Most music that has a great tune, lyrics, uniquness and brings out emotions in me'. As a random example, Terry Jacks - Seasons in the sun.

Maybe they just dont know what good music they are missing out on. But, hey, why should that bother you?

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

http://www.aliciakeys.com/imgs/photo_1_08_bg.jpg

Alicia Keys artistic light is so bright it could illuminate a pitch-black room. A true musical prodigy whose multi-dimensional gifts emerged at age five, the beautiful Alicia will soon take modern R&B soul to a whole new level at the tender age of nineteen.

Born aware of her old soul yet living in New YorkÆs inner city amidst the dominance of Biggie and Jay Z, AliciaÆs natural talents blossomed into a rare mix of hip-hop flavor and insightful, wise-beyond-her-years songwriting. Coupling this with the singerÆs spine-tingling vocal power, positively stirring live performances and expertise as a classically trained pianist, Alicia Keys could be this generationÆs Roberta Flack.

Highly sought-after by record labels that held good, old-fashioned bidding wars in her honor, Alicia signed to Arista Records in 1998. There, in the spirit of a genius like DÆAngelo or Prince, she continued the process of writing, producing and recording the debut sheÆd begun penning at age 14.

In late 1999, Alicia followed Clive Davis to his new J Records where she continues to chart her arrival to the music world. Creations now rising out of the studio show signs of both a critical and commercial monster - a deep, melodic, soulful gem of an album that showcases Alicia in all her universal glory. Though most of the album- including the luminous "Fallin'" and the moving "Troubles" - was written and produced by Alicia Keys, the artist collaborates with Jermaine Dupri on "Girlfriend" and with Isaac Hayes on "Rock Wit U" from the Shaft soundtrack. Her debut album, Songs in A Minor, is set for release on J Records in late June.

Born and raised in Manhattan, the stunning, bi-racial Alicia Keys recognizes a number of influences including her ultra-supportive mother who told her "You can quit anything else but you can never give up on your piano lessons." Alicia also sites a teacher at the Professional Performance Arts School in Manhattan who, while she was majoring in Choir, gave her valuable instruction on her voice. "This teacher spent so much time with me, she became the closest thing to vocal training I received," Alicia recalls.

At age 16, AliciaÆs outstanding grades allowed her to finish high school early. "I was so deeply involved in music, I had already outgrown all the pressure of high school cliques and gossip." Right out of high school, Columbia University accepted Alicia Keys and though she gave it a whirl, the desire to focus on music was the driving force over all else.

Looks like she fits into category c then.

lost it

06-03-2002, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Steve M
While there is a lot of junk around, surely the state of the music industry is no worse than cinama or TV?

To my mind, what is ignorant is to make sweeping statements like, 'All music in genre x is crap.' People who really love music (and for me I love music more than Palace :eek: ) devour anything from any genre that's 'good'. I saw John Peel on Room 101 the other day and he mentioned that at the moment he's listening to Death Metal! A joke quite possibly, but a neat illustration of the point. I honestly can't think of a single type of music in which I like nothing. Garage maybe? Hang on, what about MJ Cole? Country? Well, the wholly wonderful Beth Orton certainly has country influences. Pop? What about some of Kylie's stuff? Some people need to get out and explore what's out there before slagging off things they know nothing about.

Anyway, I'm off home to listen to S Club 7...

Who are you? I like you. Wow did someone say Beth Orton? I love her and went to an amazing gig in Manchester a couple of years ago. She was telling crap jokes about mints but that just made her even more loveable.

i can think of a genre of music I bet you hate - jungle. Am I right or am i right? Am glad you don't like garage, there is no passion in it, no soul.

Omen - thanx for the piccie i get who you mean now. Wasn't expecting the biography though!

The Omen

06-03-2002, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Looks like she fits into category c then.

What is "category c"?

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Steve M
While there is a lot of junk around, surely the state of the music industry is no worse than cinama or TV?

To my mind, what is ignorant is to make sweeping statements like, 'All music in genre x is crap.' People who really love music (and for me I love music more than Palace :eek: ) devour anything from any genre that's 'good'. I saw John Peel on Room 101 the other day and he mentioned that at the moment he's listening to Death Metal! A joke quite possibly, but a neat illustration of the point. I honestly can't think of a single type of music in which I like nothing. Garage maybe? Hang on, what about MJ Cole? Country? Well, the wholly wonderful Beth Orton certainly has country influences. Pop? What about some of Kylie's stuff? Some people need to get out and explore what's out there before slagging off things they know nothing about.

Anyway, I'm off home to listen to S Club 7...

Don't get me started on TV and films.

Burn Hollywood burn is all I can say.

As to your point, I appreciate the sentiment. However, I disagree. To take one of your examples: Country. I hate 99% of Country and Western music which leads me to think of it as generally cr@p. However, I love some country-influenced music such as The Byrds. That doesn't stop Country music being cr@p.

I honestly believe there are entire genres which are fundamentally flawed. Garage, house, techno, jungle, death/thrash metal and boyband pretty much covers them. People who really love and understand music would never listen to this nonsense.

Pop is a different kettle of fish. The Beatles were pop.

Although it would be lovely and liberal to say "all types of music can be great" the reality is that many musically worthless genres have developed over time - strange little pockets of extremities. Playing guitars as loudly and quickly as possible, or making muisc as fast as possible with as many beats as possible.

It's all rubbish.

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

What is "category c"?

I refer you to my original post....

lost it

06-03-2002, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

Looks like she fits into category c then.

Like I said i don't know her so can't slate her. I now know what she looks like (v nice)but cant think of her music, I'll listen out for it though, especially as she is v pretty!

The Omen

06-03-2002, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

I refer you to my original post....

And you class everyone else as ignorant! :rolleyes:

Last time I view this thread. It's obviously just a waste of time arguing with an obnoxious idiot, with his head shoved so far up his own arse that he can talk sh!t all day and be oblivious to anyone elses views or ideas.

LLCOOLSTEVE

06-03-2002, 07:18 PM

music, everyone had their own opions on what is good or bad, its not just about how it sounds but how well you are entertained by the performer aswell in some cases, each to their own and everyone knows that, some people listen to the music cause of the way it sounds, others listen because they relate to the words- i personally have done both! as im sure have many others.

I dont think you can say you dislike one type of music, i have done this in the past and a few weeks later have been forced to admit that i like a song in the from the afore mentioned category of dislike! I generally dislike Garage music but some of it is ok, i remember when "rewind" came out Featuring Craig David and i loved it.

nuff said..music, cant live with it alot of it, but certainly cant live without it! (or can you?)

Top Dog

06-03-2002, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by The Omen

And you class everyone else as ignorant! :rolleyes:

Last time I view this thread. It's obviously just a waste of time arguing with an obnoxious idiot, with his head shoved so far up his own arse that he can talk sh!t all day and be oblivious to anyone elses views or ideas.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHH!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bye Bye!!!

Steve M

06-03-2002, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

I honestly believe there are entire genres which are fundamentally flawed. Garage, house, techno, jungle, death/thrash metal and boyband pretty much covers them. People who really love and understand music would never listen to this nonsense.

It's all rubbish.

I think this thread's reached it's natural conclusion (with most people concluding that you're an arse), however I have to say:

Absolute Nonsense. Frankly how dare you suggest that I know nothing about the abiding love of my life because I happen to like music that your narrow little mind can't comprehend. What gives you such a great musical understanding? Perhaps you have a doctorate in musicology? Maybe you are a world-renowned cellist? Or maybe you're just a muppet. At the end of the day it's your loss though...

Time for a little (newly reformed so I'm told ) Mother Earth

:love:

Sunny Fan

06-03-2002, 09:05 PM

:p

I like Mother Earth, had almost forgotten about them

Peace and love people, even all you muppets out there

Chris K

07-03-2002, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by Top Dog

I honestly believe there are entire genres which are fundamentally flawed. Garage, house, techno, jungle, People who really love and understand music would never listen to this nonsense.

Topdog it just show how narrow minded you are that the only posts in this debate you have replied to are the ones where people have called you names. Its interesting how when someone has come back with something half intelligent you've completely ignored it.

Top Dog

07-03-2002, 02:54 PM

No-one has come out with anything even half-intelligent though.

I find it interesting that you believe "most people will conclude I am an arse". As far as I can see there are only four or five people on the BBS who felt the need to defend these types of music. I think that just goes to prove what a minority you are in. You have also obviously ignored all the responses in agreement.

And just for the record - I am very far from narrow minded. I am always looking for new music and more than willing to give something a go. Some of my taste is fairly strange. I have heard plenty of house and garage in my team (unfortunately) and even went to a rave once.

All I can say is that I find it genuinely sad that people like this type of muisic. I am also stunned at how incredibly liberal some people seem to be. To the point of saying that no-one should have opinions on anything. That you cannot criticise any type of music or you are "narrow minded". I believe that it is the people who listen to this type of nonsense who are narrow minded, as they often refuse to listen to anything else and obviously haven't bothered to give other muisc a go. It's like calling someone narrow minded for saying Westlife are cr@p. No it's not - it's just a fact.

It's hardly the most complex, moving or thought provoking is it?

Nevermind. It is you who are missing out.

Top Dog

07-03-2002, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Sweetpea!

I got taste - my iced bun tasted yummy.

I see your point, alot of modern music is **** (in my opinion), and a lot of it very nothingy, annoying and samish. Yet, people are buying it, so in their opinion is must be good.

You should not judge someone by the music they listen to. Besides, you can not help what you like.

I have to admit, when it comes to the music that I like, I have been fairley influenced by people I know.

I hate being asked, 'What music do you like?' My reply would be, 'Most music that has a great tune, lyrics, uniquness and brings out emotions in me'. As a random example, Terry Jacks - Seasons in the sun.

Maybe they just dont know what good music they are missing out on. But, hey, why should that bother you?

I just think it's sad. All that great music out there going unheard.

GUCCI Eagle

07-03-2002, 03:07 PM

Thank you for being such a musical epicure.

Would you kindly explain to me how all of the above listed genres of music are fundamentally flawed? It's one thing to come out with "no one has come out with an intelligent argument", but it's entirely beyond me that you can spout some banal nonsense afterwards.

I'm not defending any music, because frankly I can't be bothered, but you can add me to your list of people who think that you're an arse.

May I also suggest that you go away and read 'A Room With a View' by E.M. Forster. The part about a 'potted history of Florence' is applicable to you.

Sunny Fan

07-03-2002, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
And just for the record - I am very far from narrow minded.

I am also stunned at how incredibly liberal some people seem to be.

Make your mind up Top Dog.
Liberal (definitions 1 to 3):
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favouring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behaviour of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

On a broader point people (speaking for myself here, possibly for others) aren't deriding you for having an opinion, I'm all for opinions; I also don't like the boy-band sound or anodyne pop / so-called r 'n' b. No problem with that.
I think it's bad. That's my opinion but I'm broad-minded to accept that other peoples' opinion is different and accept their opinion. They might not like music becuase of the intricacies of its writing or whatever, but that music does something for them. That's fair enough, more fool them I say but I don't think any less of them as people which you appear to. That's plain arrogance which is a trait I don't find particularly attractive.
Musical taste is subjective and rightly so.
Therefore "I think this is crap" is very acceptable. No-ones arguing with you there.
"I know this is bad and think worse of people who think differently" is unpleasant.

'Nuff said.

Steve M

07-03-2002, 03:16 PM

I'm not missing out on anything. I listen to all sorts from Bach to Simon and Garfunkel, Daft Punk to Nirvana, LTJ Bukem to Terry Callier.

You, on the other hand, haven't offered a single cogent arguement as to why various genres are intrisically flawed theoretically, structurally, or emotionally.

You seem to suggest that I think music is beyond criticism, which is not true. There is a lot of appalling junk about (and there ever has been), however I take any piece of music on its own merits rather than dismissing as junk entire styles.

Would you say that Nirvana wrote complex, moving, or thought provoking music? Hardly, but they were still great. What about Metallica's older stuff? Many Beatles songs don't fulfil any of these criteria either. The Moonlight Sonata would seem possibly to only fulfil one of them, provoking an emotional response that could be said to being akin to being moved, but then I often find I'm more impacted by Daft Punk whose music certainly has housy elements to it.

Ruskin Old Boy

07-03-2002, 03:50 PM

Totally bored at work so reading every unread thread.

If there had been a BBS when I was a teenager it would have included stuff headed "Why most music nowadays is cr@p"; you know the sort of thing "performed by long-haired unwashed louts who've never done a day's work in their lives" ;) - the sort of stuff peddled by the Daily Mail then and now...plus ca change.

Well, Mr Top Dog, you're entitled to your opinions but there is some good stuff around, even to the ears of this 53 yo. You can stick boy bandz somewhere painful but that Kylie does wonders for my eyesight; serious stuff coming out of the East, especially Russia, always worth listening to. Listen to real rap as it was originally intended, from France -bit old hat now, but MC Solaar is unbeatable.

In lieu of a smilie that has a bald-headed guy rolling a jo*nt, you'll have to make do with two symbols of the 60s - flower power

:love: and soul man :afro:

Be cool :cool:

ozzieEagle

07-03-2002, 04:04 PM

lots of this so called pop crap, has some real class hidden in amongst it,
when rusken mentioned kylie, i thought of "wild rose" with nick cave, that wasnt so bad, some of madonnas stuff is pretty good as well,
as long as u realise it's just "pop music" her "ray of lite" faze wasnt so bad. marvin gaye, and the stones, and paticularly the doors did release crap you know !!

anothing thing hiding in amongst todays music, there are plenty of one hit wonder bands that are pretty good, "dead stars, deeper water" outta australia comes to mind, Paul mac here are also releasing some good stuff, some of texas's music i enjoy, it is out there, but the industry turns over so quickly these days, tis hard to spot.

and for the record destiny's childs song "say my name" imho was a pretty clever song, dont like any of their other crap, but that one at least was interesting !

candide

07-03-2002, 04:08 PM

i have a short attention span, and some of these posts are long, so this may have come up before.

top dog- lets say you're right and there's good and bad music (and that you're the judge).
you said earlier that the more you study music the more you appreciate it and the more you realise what good music is.
let's even assume this is right.

why is it not ok not to study music more, not to be interested and to just listen to (and buy) whatever catches your ear at any time?

you happen to be interested in music.if youre not for example interested in art, you (by your reasoning) can't like a painting without studying art "more".

(by the way, you being right on this was hypothetical)

Polish Prancer

07-03-2002, 04:10 PM

There was a great programme on BBC last night on the Disco years, it was fantastic loads of great tracks that i remember from my childhood years.
You could see the start of particular trends of music that we are enjoying now.
Sure some of it was bad and cheesy but who cares.
What did concern me was the 'Disco sucks' movement which prided itself on burning records and presumably wanting to tell everyone what they should listen to. (Good and bad music)
I seem to recall there was a similar single minded movement in 1933.
I will listen to what I like
:)

Top Dog

07-03-2002, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Steve M
I'm not missing out on anything. I listen to all sorts from Bach to Simon and Garfunkel, Daft Punk to Nirvana, LTJ Bukem to Terry Callier.

You, on the other hand, haven't offered a single cogent arguement as to why various genres are intrisically flawed theoretically, structurally, or emotionally.

You seem to suggest that I think music is beyond criticism, which is not true. There is a lot of appalling junk about (and there ever has been), however I take any piece of music on its own merits rather than dismissing as junk entire styles.

Would you say that Nirvana wrote complex, moving, or thought provoking music? Hardly, but they were still great. What about Metallica's older stuff? Many Beatles songs don't fulfil any of these criteria either. The Moonlight Sonata would seem possibly to only fulfil one of them, provoking an emotional response that could be said to being akin to being moved, but then I often find I'm more impacted by Daft Punk whose music certainly has housy elements to it.

Actually yes I would say Nirvana were moving and thought provoking.

Anyway, you're just nit-picking now. What I was talking about was musicians who try and write original stuff that provokes some sort of emotional response. Music that talks to your soul, rather than just your wallet.

I can't imagine how a song that goes "boom boom boom boom boom boom boom " could do this?????

And yes a lot of early Beatles stuff was crap. However, they managed to grow and re-invent themselves and experiment. They ended up writing loads of classic songs which pushed back the boundaries.

Ian of Chatham

07-03-2002, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by lost it
Dodger - I think you are the sweetest and naevist person in the world if you really think people werent doing drugs in those early 80's. Your attitude is refreshing yet sadly lacking in a sense of reality, but good luck to you.
First of all it was Chris K who made the statement about drugs in the 1980s, not Dodger and Chris actually said:

And don't come out with that toss that its all just noise for whne you're off your tits because its very boring. Did you know in the early 1980's when House music was starting at clubs such as the Warehouse (Chicago) neither the djs, producers or even the club go-ers took drugs?
Lost it, yes people were taking drugs other than alcohol and nicotine during the mid 80s but back then those people were in a minority, not only that but I know for a fact that (Chicago) House music was not assoicated with drugs at all, in fact I know a few house music songs which were anti-drugs. I was into House music in the mid 80s but NEVER took any drugs apart from alcohol. When Acid House took over from (Chicago) house in 1988 it was a bit more associated with drugs as people took ecstacy for the first time, although I was into the music I certainly wasn't interested in the ecstacy though.

Steve M

07-03-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog

I can't imagine how a song that goes "boom boom boom boom boom boom boom " could do this?????

Fine, that's why you don't like it, but you should accept the fact that a lot of people do lose themselves in Dance music of various types (by no means all of whom take drugs) and that doesn't make them morons or somehow inferior to you. If you'd ever experienced the exhiliration of being in a full club when the dance floor goes mental to a killer track you might appreciate that some kind of emotional response is possible - not the same kind of response as results from listening to Radiohead, but a valid response none the less.

Don-Donovani

07-03-2002, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Steve M
...If you'd ever experienced the exhiliration of being in a full club when the dance floor goes mental to a killer track you might appreciate that some kind of emotional response is possible - not the same kind of response as results from listening to Radiohead, but a valid response none the less.
As a soul boy in his late 40's with an eclectic music collection (pardon the cliche), I've been where Steve M refers to on numerous ocassions around the globe, and have felt genuinely uplifted when that killer tune is played. Musically, shouldn't we all be entitled to enjoy what we like best and allow others their own enjoyment enhancers, without slagging 'em off. Lots of today's pop doesnt appeal to me particularly, but I defend to the hilt another man's right to enjoy such crap ;)

If your musical taste isn't mainstream, it makes finding your own particular gems of music that much more enjoyable. This from someone who has just located and purchased the Taj Mahal album 'Oooooh so good 'n' blues' on vinyl. I've been searching for this sucker for years and will be giving it large ones tonight on my radiogram - kids asleep or not...........WWWHHHOOOOOOAAAAAA

lost it

07-03-2002, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Ian of Chatham

First of all it was Chris K who made the statement about drugs in the 1980s, not Dodger and Chris actually said:

Lost it, yes people were taking drugs other than alcohol and nicotine during the mid 80s but back then those people were in a minority, not only that but I know for a fact that (Chicago) House music was not assoicated with drugs at all, in fact I know a few house music songs which were anti-drugs. I was into House music in the mid 80s but NEVER took any drugs apart from alcohol. When Acid House took over from (Chicago) house in 1988 it was a bit more associated with drugs as people took ecstacy for the first time, although I was into the music I certainly wasn't interested in the ecstacy though.

Well that is me told isnt it!

Nice to hear someone was having a good time without chemical aid. I don't condemn those who are into all that but it's not something you'll catch me doing. I'm a fan of the herb but not the whole acid/e/coke/speed scene (luckily I'm naturally off my head! Have tried a few things but realised its more fun without)

What are those anti-drugs songs? I couldnt think of any but I am only a spring chicken.

Georgie Boy

07-03-2002, 05:53 PM

1f7b

Originally posted by Top Dog
But good music used to do well in the charts. All the bands I mentioned spent ages in the charts.

I personally wouldn't like my music to my make the top 40.

I'm quite happy going to my local underground dance music shop and digging out tracks nobody else has got or listened to before.

Now like you've said before there's a lot of 'boom boom boom' nonsense that's made for club/drug culture mainly, but there's also alot of dance music that's written and produced from the heart.

A majority of my music comes from the US. A couple of the producers have had big hits but they'll always go back to their roots, back to underground labels so they have the freedom of making music they want to make instead of being caught up in the 'music politics'.

These producers use some of the best vocalists around - Barbara Tucker, Patti Austin, Kenny Bobien and many many more. They also use real instruments instead of relying on all the technical sh*t. So Top Dogs comments about house/garage being cr*p is a bit harsh.

What is cr*p about it? Makes you dance, smile, you don't hear the same tunes on the radio every day, doesn't all sound the same at all - you could have a track without vocals followed by a saxaphone lead track. You'll here bongos, violins, horns, trumpets, guitars, pianos, a full orchestra..what more can you ask for!?!?! You should have seen Louie Vega play a couple of weeks ago - 8 hour set, live piano, guitar and vocalist for the whole time! If that's not good, honest dance music, what is?

It's in your own hands if you want to listen to decent music - you know it's out there - you may have to search high and low for the right outlets/shops. Once you find your place, bingo! A constant supply of the music you want.

'House music crap'!?! No f*cking way - there's a type of House music for everyone, there's so many different variations you can't just write it off until you've experienced different forms of it.

You should go and see Danny Krivit play at The End on Saturday - that'll educate you about how good house music can be. He's followed by Giles Peterson who is another lad that knows his shtooff!!!

:afro:

Steve M

07-03-2002, 06:01 PM

Giles Peterson is theman as far as I'm concerned. So eclectic, you never know exactly what sort of set he'll play.

Georgie Boy

07-03-2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by lost it

Well that is me told isnt it!

Nice to hear someone was having a good time without chemical aid. I don't condemn those who are into all that but it's not something you'll catch me doing. I'm a fan of the herb but not the whole acid/e/coke/speed scene (luckily I'm naturally off my head! Have tried a few things but realised its more fun without)

What are those anti-drugs songs? I couldnt think of any but I am only a spring chicken.

I think 'Promised Land' and other early house tunes probably had reference to non drug taking. Very spiritual!:angel:

Ruskin Old Boy

07-03-2002, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Georgie Boy

I think 'Promised Land' and other early house tunes probably had reference to non drug taking. Very spiritual!:angel:

Springsteen did a brilliant Promised Land (not the same: I know:cool: )

Blind_Eagle

07-03-2002, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy

Springsteen did a brilliant Promised Land (not the same: I know:cool: )

Cracking song. :p

The dogs on main street howl
'Cause they understand
If I could take one moment into my hands
Mister, I ain't a boy, no, I'm a man
And I believe in a promised land
I believe in a promised land

DANGERMOUSE

07-03-2002, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Georgie Boy

I personally wouldn't like my music to my make the top 40.

:afro:

Now that's just as bad as saying all [insert genre] is rubbish. If it's good, it's good, and being in the Top 40 or not shouldn't change it. I would rather more of my preferred music was in the charts than less of it - I wouldn't have to listen to so much old tosh!

(Mind you, I can understand what you mean. I was guilty of feeling a bit annoyed when I found a fantastic song called 'Why Did You Do It?' by Stretch on a cheapo '70s compilation, only for it to appear in the 'Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels' soundtrack a couple of months later. My impressive obscurist advantage was wiped out at a stroke!!)

Sunny Fan

07-03-2002, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by DANGERMOUSE

(Mind you, I can understand what you mean. I was guilty of feeling a bit annoyed when I found a fantastic song called 'Why Did You Do It?' by Stretch on a cheapo '70s compilation, only for it to appear in the 'Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels' soundtrack a couple of months later. My impressive obscurist advantage was wiped out at a stroke!!)

I had the same with (less obscure but sufficiently so to keep me happy) Aaron Neville's Hercules which has popped up on about 5 different compliation albums (chill to this, come back to mine and one of the totally wired spring to mind) in recent years.
Top tune though:)

NottsEagle

07-03-2002, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Polish Prancer
There was a great programme on BBC last night on the Disco years, it was fantastic loads of great tracks that i remember from my childhood years.
You could see the start of particular trends of music that we are enjoying now.
Sure some of it was bad and cheesy but who cares.
What did concern me was the 'Disco sucks' movement which prided itself on burning records and presumably wanting to tell everyone what they should listen to. (Good and bad music)
I seem to recall there was a similar single minded movement in 1933.
I will listen to what I like
:)

Great programme! I was intrigued by the 'Disco Sucks' thing - it looked like a bit of a laugh and I could sympathise as it seemed to me that the disco movement had probably run its course (meaning commercialism had inevitably crept in and began to push out the true meaning of why it existed in the first place).

But then Stuart Maconie comes on and says that the true motivation behind the movement was racist, sexist etc..

Was anyone around at the time and/or knows what happened?

Ouch that Hurt!

07-03-2002, 11:06 PM

Stuart Bloody Maconie.

He's on everything, what does he have to make him the world leader on all subjects. And that Kate Thornton bird. what does she know..............................

NottsEagle

07-03-2002, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Sunny Fan

I had the same with (less obscure but sufficiently so to keep me happy) Aaron Neville's Hercules which has popped up on about 5 different compliation albums (chill to this, come back to mine and one of the totally wired spring to mind) in recent years.
Top tune though:)

Its a strange phenomenon that we all want our friends to like the music that we have 'discovered' but as soon as too many people like it we would rather they didn't - the kudos has been diluted. D'oh!

Something I said just now about the disco movement being diluted by commercialism has made me think. Isn't it depressing that anything that becomes popular will be leapt on by those who seek to exploit it - thus pushing out the 'true' fans who saw it for what it really was in the first place. Its happened with rap to the point that I am no longer interested in it - Jurassic 5 will continue to rock though!

Isn't it depressing that the nature of man is to destroy all that he touches? You name it - music genres, films, holiday destinations. Yesterday's 'cool' backpacking destination frequented by a few is today's Surfer's Paradise or Goa. Man destroys all.

I'm no Christian but it says something that the biggest buildings built these days are effectively temples to business/commercialism whereas years ago human ingenuity was at least put into something grand, something 'spiritual'.

America - the 'Great Satan' indeed

Sorry for going slightly off topic. Am I mad or do I have a point? BTW - I sm not saying Surfer's Paradise and Goa (neither of which I have been to) are necessarily bad - just that the original reason for their popularity has been lost due to their popularity - yes, that DOES make sense.

NottsEagle

07-03-2002, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Stuart Bloody Maconie.

He's on everything, what does he have to make him the world leader on all subjects. And that Kate Thornton bird. what does she know..............................

I'd agree with your sentiments about Kate Thornton. Maconie is alright though. They are both, though, people who ONLY EVER pop up on programmes like this - they must be eagerly awaiting 'I *heart* the 90s' - oh sh*t, that's already been done...

'Go figure' as out American friends might say

ozzieEagle

08-03-2002, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Sweetpea!

.

I hate being asked, 'What music do you like?' My reply would be, 'Most music that has a great tune, lyrics, uniquness and brings out emotions in me'. As a random example, Terry Jacks - Seasons in the sun.

I dont remember battling alongside you my fellow terrace terrior, however how much the emotion does stir when i remember this great song from the 74-75 season, hmmm didnt think you was that old

"we had joy, we had fun
we had brighton on the run
but the joy didnt last
cos the b....darts ran too fast"

must mean we had the equivalent of the leicester city skinhead female gang after all, and somehow i missed it, bloody booze and memory damn it, :o :D

Sweetpea!

08-03-2002, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by ozzieEagle

I dont remember battling alongside you my fellow terrace terrior, however how much the emotion does stir when i remember this great song from the 74-75 season, hmmm didnt think you was that old

I'm not that old - just like some old music :)

Lion

08-03-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
But good music used to do well in the charts. All the bands I mentioned spent ages in the charts.

So what? There's plenty of good bands and good music out there, Brian Adams spent ages in the chart for what I think was a sh*t song from a Robin Hood film.

Personally, my music taste varies, I like things like A, 3 doors down, and other rock/punk/pop bands. I like Placebo, Moby, etc. I like Dance Music, I like Classical on occasions, and I like 60-80's music.

Plenty of bands fold now days, not because they are not good enough, but because the record industry is a hard one to get into - not everyone is going to be the next U2, to put it simply, there's too much talent, and not enough airtime.

BUNGLE

08-03-2002, 02:27 PM

I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.

Lion

08-03-2002, 02:58 PM

I like Kylie :love:

Sweetpea!

08-03-2002, 03:00 PM

Kylie is attractive, but her voice (music) is as irritaring as hell. Load of O'bollarks.

Jim Cannons Moustache

08-03-2002, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.

Fair enough with the song, but how can you not appreciate Kylies bum?? And another good thing about Kylie is that if you ever went on holiday with her shes so small you can just pop her in your jacket pocket thus saving money by not having to buy more than one seat.:)

Chris K

08-03-2002, 03:31 PM

and of course she doesn't have to get on her knees to give you ....... sorry ignore me, imagination was wondering off again

Top Dog

08-03-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Lion

Plenty of bands fold now days, not because they are not good enough, but because the record industry is a hard one to get into - not everyone is going to be the next U2, to put it simply, there's too much talent, and not enough airtime.

Yes the record industry is hard to get into (for genuine bands) - because so much of it is taken up with commercial pop rubbish.

To say that there is too much talent at the moment and not enough air time, is frankly one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.

Top Dog

08-03-2002, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.

:eek: Are you complaining that Kylie wears short skirts???????? I think you have taken leave of your senses!

Fake bum??? What on Earth are you on about man?!

Top Dog

08-03-2002, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by NottsEagle

Its a strange phenomenon that we all want our friends to like the music that we have 'discovered' but as soon as too many people like it we would rather they didn't - the kudos has been diluted. D'oh!

Something I said just now about the disco movement being diluted by commercialism has made me think. Isn't it depressing that anything that becomes popular will be leapt on by those who seek to exploit it - thus pushing out the 'true' fans who saw it for what it really was in the first place. Its happened with rap to the point that I am no longer interested in it - Jurassic 5 will continue to rock though!

Isn't it depressing that the nature of man is to destroy all that he touches? You name it - music genres, films, holiday destinations. Yesterday's 'cool' backpacking destination frequented by a few is today's Surfer's Paradise or Goa. Man destroys all.

I'm no Christian but it says something that the biggest buildings built these days are effectively temples to business/commercialism whereas years ago human ingenuity was at least put into something grand, something 'spiritual'.

America - the 'Great Satan' indeed

Sorry for going slightly off topic. Am I mad or do I have a point? BTW - I sm not saying Surfer's Paradise and Goa (neither of which I have been to) are necessarily bad - just that the original reason for their popularity has been lost due to their popularity - yes, that DOES make sense.

:D On the soap-box again NottsEagle???

ozzieEagle

08-03-2002, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.

good lord, a blasphemer !! dont you realise what an experienced attractive women, has all over a 16 year old, you numbat !!

errr and at my age kylie is damn young, i think madonna just manages it
into my age realm, droooollllll madonna yummy, roll me in honey and throw me to her and her lesbian freinds ;)

Don-Donovani

08-03-2002, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.

Bungle,
She's as fit as they come and I for one, wouldn't be throwing her out of my bed....err....metaphorically speaking.

What ails you my man??

08-03-2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
Fake bum??? What on Earth are you on about man?!
Apparently she carries it around in a suitcase, just to see if customs officials ever notice the false bottom.

Georgie Boy

08-03-2002, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by The Doctor

Apparently she carries it around in a suitcase, just to see if customs officials ever notice the false bottom.

Apparently, after a performance at a prestigious awards ceremony, she took it off and washed it at 60 degrees, but it shrunk, hence why her a*se is so tiny.:eek:

NRM the 2nd

08-03-2002, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Top Dog
I cannot believe how cr@p most music is these days. I am only 22 so I guess I am supposed to like it. It really is shocking though. TOTP is unwatchable now as every song fits into one of the following categories:

a) Boy/Girl band rubbish - an entire genre of cr@p music - not one good song has ever been released by any of the growing army of boy/girl bands.

b) Cr@p "hip-hop" - gone are the days of funky beats and meaningful lyrics in hip-hop, now all you get is style and no content. Dre excluded.

c) American R&B. Although why they call it rhythm and blues I have no idea seen as it contains neither element, but instead has some non-entity warbling to a nothing song.

d) New American Rock - one level above growling bands - I can't remember the last good rock album I heard.

e) Destiny's Child - the less said the better.

f) Cr@p Indie - you know who you are.

What little good music there is, never does well in the charts.

The whole industry is so incredibly commerical now - it's as if the youth are being brain-washed into buying crap pre-packaged music.

Compare what's around now to the classic bands of the sixties - The Stones, The Doors, The Small Faces, Hendrix, Marvin Gaye and all that 60s Soul, and you can only help but feel a little sick.

What's tragic is that a lot of young people (even my age) have not heard anything by these bands, so basically have no idea what good music is.

Shouldn't it be part of their basic education at school. Perhaps if people were taught what good music was from an early age they would reject the commerical rubbish being shoved down their throats?

Have only just read the first page of this thread so sorry if im repeating anything. I have to say although I am only just 22 I do prefer the slightly older music. I have been brought up on 60's, 70's music through my dad and uncle (I do this everytime but a quick plug for my uncles book 'Guiness Book of British Hit Singles', the one that Will Young was holding on the front page of Monday's Sun...plug over) so I too like all those people you have mentioned. infact a few sundays back me and 2 mates watched the whole of live aid on video and what a line up. Quo, Dire straits, Sting, Phill Collins, Queen, U2, The Who, Clapton and many many more and we said you just couldn't have anything like that now. Who would you have, Westlife, steps, Spice Girls, Gareth f*****g Gates give us a break, not even on a par.

Sunny Fan

08-03-2002, 06:40 PM

Well played, NRM, you've just sided with Top Dog while at the same time extolling the talents of Phil Collins, cracking post, this is a fun thread:)

Steve M

08-03-2002, 06:42 PM

Have to say I'd rather listen to Westlife than the first four acts you mention above, therefore in the spirit of this thread I have to say that you clearly have no understanding of music at all and must be some kind of idiot to dare to like music that I don't.;)

ozeagle

08-03-2002, 06:46 PM

i'm having a ball in london with all the pastie bands you guys have, i simply cannot believe this thread, agreed all mainstream boy (fag) bands are cr@p, and britney and co. suck, but come on, over the next few months, i'll have seen the charlatans, the bluetones, ian brown, mercury rev, belle and sebastian (in brussels whilst we wallow against crewe), ocean colour scene, etc etc...
and we presently have one of the world's all time greatest bands U2 producing banging tune after banging tune.....
:p

NRM the 2nd

08-03-2002, 06:46 PM

ah, I added Phill because at that particular event didn't he start at Wembley then fly over to America to finish their version. Cant imagine Ricky Martin or whoever you want doing that.

Besides not saying I hate new music, just that I prefer the older stuff

"Reach for the stars............. :rolleyes:

08-03-2002, 07:46 PM

False bottom..? No..? Oh suit yourselves.

Ian of Chatham

09-03-2002, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'd only like to add that how can a song that has a chorus that goes 'lalalalalalalala' win so many fecking awards. KYLIE YOUR OLD, WITH A FAKE BUM AND DRESS LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD, LET IT GO.
Sorry but I'm partly in agreement with Bungle. Even though I don't like all of her records I do believe she is talented enough to be able to let her music and not her backside do the talking for her.

Ouch that Hurt!

09-03-2002, 01:12 AM

You are right. "On a Night like This" is a far greater song than the literally titled "Can't get you out of my head", that my girlfriend, and everyone I knows' girlfriend seems to love!!

By the way, is it true that all girls are allowed to fancy "Kylie (so famous she has no fecking surname) without being rugmunchers?

ozzieEagle

09-03-2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by NRM the 2nd

Have only just read the first page of this thread so sorry if im repeating anything. I have to say although I am only just 22 I do prefer the slightly older music. I have been brought up on 60's, 70's music through my dad and uncle (I do this everytime but a quick plug for my uncles book 'Guiness Book of British Hit Singles', the one that Will Young was holding on the front page of Monday's Sun...plug over) so I too like all those people you have mentioned. infact a few sundays back me and 2 mates watched the whole of live aid on video and what a line up. Quo, Dire straits, Sting, Phill Collins, Queen, U2, The Who, Clapton and many many more and we said you just couldn't have anything like that now. Who would you have, Westlife, steps, Spice Girls, Gareth f*****g Gates give us a break, not even on a par.

I'm almost getting a bit annoyed about this, what your talking about is what is fashionable at the time, bands of the ilk that you mention were fashionable at that time, todays fashion (which generally i dont go along with) is the latter bands that you mention, HOWEVER, there are good bands around, u just dont hear erm mate !!! if anything music
is more diverse now than it ever was. have a bex and a lie down and try and download some Paul mac ! or jeriomoquaid ! or foo fighters, spiderbait, air, jeff buckley, blind melon, beth orton, creed linkin park

xrist almighty i'm probably twice as old as you, what are you listening to

lost it

11-03-2002, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Ian of Chatham

Sorry but I'm partly in agreement with Bungle. Even though I don't like all of her records I do believe she is talented enough to be able to let her music and not her backside do the talking for her.

Hear Hear! I agree. Kylie may not produce the most original or imaginative music but give it its due, her songs are catchy. Having worked her way up from the permed cutiepie muppet of yesteryear to groomed star extraordinaire I think she deserves some credit. She's survived in a very competative market, struggling against her image and personal problems (God |I cant believe I'm getting this serious about Kylie!) and is stunning. A role model for all us women I think!

Ruskin Old Boy

11-03-2002, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by lost it

Hear Hear! I agree. Kylie may not produce the most original or imaginative music but give it its due, her songs are catchy. Having worked her way up from the permed cutiepie muppet of yesteryear to groomed star extraordinaire I think she deserves some credit. She's survived in a very competative market, struggling against her image and personal problems (God |I cant believe I'm getting this serious about Kylie!) and is stunning. A role model for all us women I think!

Ditto Hear hear!:p I like her determination to get on and willingness to be different (but then she is of Welsh stock ;) )

lost it

11-03-2002, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
You are right. "On a Night like This" is a far greater song than the literally titled "Can't get you out of my head", that my girlfriend, and everyone I knows' girlfriend seems to love!!

By the way, is it true that all girls are allowed to fancy "Kylie (so famous she has no fecking surname) without being rugmunchers?

yes it is fine to fancy Kylie without being a rugmuncher (so eloquent as always). Anyway it isnt so much that straight girls fancy her, more that they think she is v v v v cool and they'd like to be her (although a lot of people wouldnt admit that) Correct me if i'm wrong though (I'm sure you all will).

Why do you think "On a Night Like This" is better than "Cant get you out of my head"?