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View Full Version : Removing Sunday Trading Restrictions for the Olympics


Mat ov CPFC
19-03-2012, 08:13 PM
And what is the betting that once the Olympics are over that the 'experiment' was deemed to be a success and it made permanent ?

Psychokiller
19-03-2012, 08:15 PM
At least Philip Green can open his shops for longer and earn more money to not pay tax on.

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 08:28 PM
There must be someone out there who can explain to someone as thick as me how this is going to boost the country's economy. I'm clearly missing some obvious benefit as a result of my career experience being restricted to roughly one third public sector, one third private sector and one third running my own businesses.

I can only imagine that my lack of experience as a career politician is what leaves me unable to comprehend the benefit of ideas like this one. Silly me.

Mat ov CPFC
19-03-2012, 08:46 PM
Is this a country wide proposal ? Or just London.

I guess that I could just about understand it if they announced a lifting of the restrictions on a Sunday in those post-codes deemed to be the ones most affected by the Olympics due to difficulties that people might have in getting out to the shops but even then its not a clear cut arguement and makes you doubt the motives but anything more than that and its a clear and straightforward concession to the corporate concerns who fund the whole rotten political system.

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Of course it's not Post Code specific Matov.

It the Tories that are helping us, remember?

Mat ov CPFC
19-03-2012, 09:05 PM
Of course it's not Post Code specific Matov.

It the Tories that are helping us, remember?


Do you honestly think it would have been any different under Labour ? For me the shit we are seeing is now just an expression of the whole system rather than anything to do with one party over another.

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Do you honestly think it would have been any different under Labour ? For me the shit we are seeing is now just an expression of the whole system rather than anything to do with one party over another.

I really have no idea whether it would be any different under Labour.

But that is completely irrelavant to this thread seeing as it isn't the Labour party proposing this. Let's not sidetrack this into a party political argument as so many threads end up being, eh?

It's the Tory coalition that are proposing it, so lets stick to facts not supposition for once please.

Maz
19-03-2012, 09:24 PM
It's a one word answer - tourists.

prizesucker
19-03-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm sure the Government see the Olympics (and the amount of tourists/spectators that come with it) as a huge cash cow. They will see it as a HUGE oppurtunity to bleed tourists dry for every sort of merchandise going, these people need to eat, drink and want to enjoy "the olympic experience".
There is a HUGE budget deficit that the government has to address - that is a fact and i'm sure tourist spending and the temptation to squeeze a bit more PAYE and NI out of londoners is too great to refuse.

Maz
19-03-2012, 09:35 PM
Quite.

And we will all benefit - not just supermarkets.

Lion
19-03-2012, 09:44 PM
About time they got rid of these stupid Sunday Trading Laws. Hope they get rid of them for the Olympics and for good. Means more work for people too.

Maz
19-03-2012, 09:46 PM
I disagree.

Nice for the middle classes to go shopping maybe. But less nice for those who have to serve them.

DANGERMOUSE
19-03-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm struggling to understand Blind's beef with this. Large shops may already open for six hours on a Sunday; what difference does another couple make? What sort of trade will a small retailer will lose if this happens? I'm not sure many people will suddenly go bombing over to Westfield if they need an emergency pint of milk of a Sunday evening.

Lion
19-03-2012, 09:53 PM
I disagree.

Nice for the middle classes to go shopping maybe. But less nice for those who have to serve them.

Lots of those who have to serve them don't have jobs. This will create more jobs. Simple.

Maz
19-03-2012, 09:56 PM
Lots of those who have to serve them don't have jobs. This will create more jobs. Simple.
Jobs at any price and stuff principles, huh? Nice.

Lion
19-03-2012, 09:58 PM
Jobs at any price and stuff principles, huh? Nice.

What principles? Don't see why we have these Sunday trading laws in the first place - they are outdated religious nonsense. Considering the amount of jobless, it seems an easy fix.

Maz
19-03-2012, 09:59 PM
What principles? Don't see why we have these Sunday trading laws in the first place .
you don't see why kids should see their parents at least one day a week? Nice.

TheMexicanHorse
19-03-2012, 10:03 PM
I disagree.

Nice for the middle classes to go shopping maybe. But less nice for those who have to serve them.

Which usually on a Sunday is teenagers/students doing a bit of part time work. I don't think their be too upset at the prospect of some more hours for a bit more drinking money.

scro
19-03-2012, 10:04 PM
Most host cities see a reduction in tourist numbers at games time.

Maz
19-03-2012, 10:04 PM
Most host cities see a reduction in tourist numbers at games time.
You sure?

TheMexicanHorse
19-03-2012, 10:04 PM
And as for it just being 'middle classes' who shop on Sunday. That's a new one for me.

Presumably you've never been to a supermarket on a Sunday afternoon? It's full of every social class going, and indeed as it is any other day.

Maz
19-03-2012, 10:07 PM
And as for it just being 'middle classes' who shop on Sunday. That's a new one for me.
The Homebase Crowd.

Dave
19-03-2012, 10:08 PM
Jobs at any price and stuff principles, huh? Nice.

What principles?

N Herts Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:08 PM
What principles? Don't see why we have these Sunday trading laws in the first place - they are outdated religious nonsense. Considering the amount of jobless, it seems an easy fix.

A few points who do you think is going to pay for this ...sure the government will be happy if a few more jobs are created but its more likely that pressure will be put on existing staff to increase hours and once again us the consumer will pay with increased prices to gain a service we dont need and dont require.

The smaller shop keeper will have yet again more pressure placed on them anyone who does not think that the supermarkets can kill a town small tradesmen need to look at some of the towns or villages outside of London

Maz
19-03-2012, 10:12 PM
What principles?
The right to a family life - as enshrined in ECHR.

FORZA SELHURST
19-03-2012, 10:16 PM
I really have no idea whether it would be any different under Labour.

But that is completely irrelavant to this thread seeing as it isn't the Labour party proposing this. Let's not sidetrack this into a party political argument as so many threads end up being, eh?

It's the Tory coalition that are proposing it, so lets stick to facts not supposition for once please.

It was always going to happen during the olympics. We won the olympics under labour so any economic upturns resulting from it have to be attributable to Condem policy, presumably Lord Coe has to put his political leanings on ice. Plus the tories need a persuasive case to placate the blue-rinse brigade if they're going to push through the abolition of sunday working perks for their mates at Tesco etal.

They've already had to suffer the spotlight being on their 'work experience' slave labour force. And we're all in this together.

DANGERMOUSE
19-03-2012, 10:16 PM
What principles?
The one that got taken over by Debenhams?

Ruskin Old Boy
19-03-2012, 10:18 PM
Wasn't one of Cameron's rabble rousing cries that his government would be the most family friendly government of all time? All day shopping hardly helps; though if shopping becomes an Olympic sport expect the UK to do well at the next Oympics.

Dave
19-03-2012, 10:23 PM
The right to a family life - as enshrined in ECHR.

What's that got to do with Sunday opening, there is a European working time directive to protect people from working all seven days.

Maz
19-03-2012, 10:26 PM
What's that got to do with Sunday opening, there is a European working time directive to protect people from working all seven days.

Eh?

So the European Directive says that the kids of parents who work weekends dont' have to go into school on Tuesdays and Thursdays?

Fatboy
19-03-2012, 10:32 PM
What's that got to do with Sunday opening, there is a European working time directive to protect people from working all seven days.

Could it be more the fact that businesses will dictate when a person works their hours ?

Staff could end up on shift work or a Wednesday to Sunday working week.

Schools are off weekends. (Edit) When is the family time ?

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:35 PM
It's a one word answer - tourists.

Yeah, the independent off licences from north of the Thames right up to Dounreay and those west of weymouth will be aboslutely ecstatic to see their Sunday profits wiped out by the local superstore thanks to the one word answer, tourists.

It might be a one word answer, but its brevity only reflects on the level of thought that has gone into this decision. It's a bad call for the economy if you take anything other than a short term view.

DANGERMOUSE
19-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Erm, unless I've dreamed it, haven't shops been opening for six hours on Sundays ever since 1994?

Dave
19-03-2012, 10:37 PM
Eh?

So the European Directive says that the kids of parents who work weekends dont' have to go into school on Tuesdays and Thursdays?

That makes no sense to me.

I think you are suggesting that somehow children are better off with unemployed parents because they can see them on a Sunday or some such shit.

Fatboy
19-03-2012, 10:38 PM
It's a one word answer - tourists.

Beware Greek tourists bearing IOU's ! ;)

Psychokiller
19-03-2012, 10:39 PM
What's that got to do with Sunday opening, there is a European working time directive to protect people from working all seven days.
You mean that law that employers get round by handing their staff an opt-out to sign along with their contract?

Dave
19-03-2012, 10:41 PM
You mean that law that employers get round by handing their staff an opt-out to sign along with their contract?
Not for retail staff

scro
19-03-2012, 10:42 PM
You sure?

I haven't seen the exact figures but have read in various places that this is the case.

Presumably overall the effect is a gain in tourism. Not sure at games time tourist numbers rise and there is evidence it stops people coming at that time. Seeing as this is about games time seems odd to me.

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm struggling to understand Blind's beef with this. Large shops may already open for six hours on a Sunday; what difference does another couple make? What sort of trade will a small retailer will lose if this happens? I'm not sure many people will suddenly go bombing over to Westfield if they need an emergency pint of milk of a Sunday evening.

Most of the small newsagents come off licences I know make the bulk of their profit trading when the supermarkets are shut. Due to economies of scale they simply cannot compete on price, but they can compete on service, in this instance by being open for stupidly long hours. You want 20 fags, a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread and a pack of tampax after 4pm on a Sunday? Under current law you can only obtain them from a small retailer.

And you're struggling to understand my beef? :eek:

bigdazza08
19-03-2012, 10:46 PM
Thank god im getting out of my hell then its bad enough there now that its given me depression, they will be rubbing there hands together with this. On Sundays Businesses should be shut FACT!

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:49 PM
Lots of those who have to serve them don't have jobs. This will create more jobs. Simple.

If its so simple you explain to me how this will create even one job.

I'd argue strongly that this will reduce the number of jobs in the medium term.

Dave
19-03-2012, 10:49 PM
First results on google

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08112011/58/london-2012-olympics-spark-tourist-numbers-debate.html

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/269580/20111219/london-olympics-hit-uk-tourist-numbers.htm

http://www.offbeatbuzz.com/believe-it-or-not/beijing-tourist-numbers-fell-during-olympics/

Eagle Of Cray
19-03-2012, 10:49 PM
Quite.

And we will all benefit - not just supermarkets.

:confused:

How will you benefit?

How will I benefit?

How will the major supermarkets, who have been trying to get these restrictions lifted for a few years, benefit?

How will Davis Tackle benefit?

If you truly believe we will all benefit why did you think it required a one word answer earlier that contradicts your above post?

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:51 PM
You sure?

He's right.

In a similar vein our industry sector suffers badly during both Olympic and World Cup years!

Fatboy
19-03-2012, 10:55 PM
How much spending money is left for tourists after expensive flights, hotels, and Olympic tickets ?

If you were a tourist that did not have Olympic tickets - why would you go to London when its on ?

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:55 PM
Erm, unless I've dreamed it, haven't shops been opening for six hours on Sundays ever since 1994?

You've completely lost me there. Which post are you referring to? :)

Psychokiller
19-03-2012, 10:57 PM
Not for retail staff
Full time staff in all sectors get it, it's become a standard part of the employment contract and renders the directive useless.

TheMexicanHorse
19-03-2012, 10:57 PM
How much spending money is left for tourists after expensive flights, hotels, and Olympic tickets ?

If you were a tourist that did not have Olympic tickets - why would you go to London when its on ?

The whole Olympic 'experience' I guess.

In the same way football fans travel to competitions abroad without having tickets for the actual matches.

You can still see some events for free like the marathon and that as well.

Blind_Eagle
19-03-2012, 10:58 PM
It was always going to happen during the olympics. We won the olympics under labour so any economic upturns resulting from it have to be attributable to Condem policy, presumably Lord Coe has to put his political leanings on ice. Plus the tories need a persuasive case to placate the blue-rinse brigade if they're going to push through the abolition of sunday working perks for their mates at Tesco etal.

They've already had to suffer the spotlight being on their 'work experience' slave labour force. And we're all in this together.

I obviously made a complete crap post as it was supposed to say that it was not party specific! :D

Miss_Selhurst
19-03-2012, 10:58 PM
whatevver happend to God ?

Psychokiller
19-03-2012, 11:00 PM
He became a really crap internet troll

Asagaya_Eagle
19-03-2012, 11:21 PM
The whole Olympic 'experience' I guess.

In the same way football fans travel to competitions abroad without having tickets for the actual matches.

You can still see some events for free like the marathon and that as well.

Why on earth would anyone want to do that? Sure, if you have tickets, or think you can get some, but would anyone honestly travel to London to be part of the "whole Olympic experience" or try to get a couple of minutes of the marathon?

Kidofwonder
20-03-2012, 12:02 AM
surely this has nothing to do with the giant westfield that has just opened up next to the olympic site. :rolleyes:

in a further point it will be extended country wide and PK is right on the opt out,I've known people who have to sign it, though admittedly not for retail.

I'm up in the air on what to think, on one hand it could make a lot of money, on the other hand, it will become a permanent fixture undoubtedly, if it creates jobs then this is obviously a good measure, however it would seem from the state of the economy that it would push current staff to work longer hours.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the recovery of the global economy, and the confidence factor in the city and across the country. when people feel good about the economy they are more likely to spend money as they feel more like they can afford it, that is obvious to anyone probably. So in theory this could generate growth.

BUT working in retail I miss enough Palace games as it is that its nice to only work short shift on sundays and be able to get home before it goes dark or maybe catch the end of the four o clock kick off in the pub.

Really and truly this is the business sector again showing how much influence they poses over the conservative party, and that is the question you have to ask yourself at the next election, though due to labours inability to elect a leader that can connect with the public we will probably get a conservative second term. The Liberal Democrats have been used as a cunning human shield and we won't have that modicum of hope that they can soften some of the harder edges of the torys.

we are in for a tough few years.

Blind_Eagle
20-03-2012, 12:10 AM
, if it creates jobs then this is obviously a good measure, however it would seem from the state of the economy that it would push current staff to work longer hours.

Adding the odd part time job in a multinatonal supermarket that will, in time, be replaced by a self service till is hardly a benefit when the direct conesquence is the closure of one or more independent traders.

The stupidity of local councils that buy into the job creation lie that is out of town supermarkets and then bleat about the death of their local high street (which was previously full of shops owned by local people and employing local people and making profit that was in the main ploughed back into the local community.) beggars belief.

orp pisshead1
20-03-2012, 02:07 AM
I'm struggling to understand Blind's beef with this. Large shops may already open for six hours on a Sunday; what difference does another couple make? What sort of trade will a small retailer will lose if this happens? I'm not sure many people will suddenly go bombing over to Westfield if they need an emergency pint of milk of a Sunday evening.

Lol you'd be amazed how many people shop after the super markets shut on a Sunday. I'm at work now but on a Sunday I do 4pm- 2am mon, the amount of people who turn up at the shop at 5 to 4 never ceases to amaze me. They get turned away and this is when smaller local shops benefit. If you extended our opening hours it would kill em as simple as.
All those who think it'll create new jobs are living in cuckoo land.

Maz
20-03-2012, 07:04 AM
That makes no sense to me.

I think you are suggesting that somehow children are better off with unemployed parents because they can see them on a Sunday or some such shit.
No. That's what you WANT to think that I am suggesting.
Had you actually thought of what I was suggesting you would have ended up in a different place ; one where unemployment was not the only alternative to a parent working all weekend.

DANGERMOUSE
20-03-2012, 07:34 AM
Well I suppose I'm not a typical panic grocery shopper, so I am surprised that demand is so great outside of supermarket hours.

In these straitened times, it is possible to argue that longer supermarket hours might help poorer people save more on their bills.

Louis
20-03-2012, 08:35 AM
It probably will help create jobs - at least in the shops that open longer. I'm not in favour though. 'Creating jobs' on its own isn't a sufficient reason to do something.

Maz
20-03-2012, 08:50 AM
If you truly believe we will all benefit why did you think it required a one word answer earlier that contradicts your above post? I believe that the whole country will benefit from the Olympics.

That is a very separate point to the one I made about Sunday trading, where are I think the only rationale is getting more money out of tourists.

I could be wrong on both points of course, but I don't think that I have contradicted myself.

Blind_Eagle
20-03-2012, 08:58 AM
It probably will help create jobs.

How?

Maz
20-03-2012, 09:12 AM
He's right.

In a similar vein our industry sector suffers badly during both Olympic and World Cup years!Blimey.

A whammy every two years?

Now I understand the thread!

Trigger Happy
20-03-2012, 09:15 AM
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file28193.pdf

Government study from 2006

Notable quote:

In terms of the impact on other retailers it is important to distinguish those stores that are complements to large stores and those stores that are substitutes. Stores that depend on the footfall generated by large stores on the High Street or in shopping malls may benefit from liberalisation of Sunday trading hours, whilst those stores who are particularly dependent on out of hours sale of
similar goods to large stores could be expected to suffer a detriment. The possibility that small and large stores can be complements is illustrated by the following letter to the Evening Standard in March
2006:
“What I hope to see in Crystal Palace is a new supermarket to replace the former Safeway which closed three months ago after new owner Morrisons decided it was a branch it was going to axe. The supermarket used to attract more than 42,000 customers a day from far afield, and many of these supported the local shops. I am on the committee of the local Phoenix Trust charity and know through events we host how much local businesses have suffered since Safeway closed.
The bookshop, shoe store, pubs and charity shops have all seen their trade diminish by between 25 and 50 per cent. Even businesses which are meant to be in competition with the supermarket, such as the local newsagent, have suffered.”

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 09:18 AM
you don't see why kids should see their parents at least one day a week? Nice.

Being honest here, how many of those people working on a Sunday would you see in a shop during the week? Very few I'm willing to bet, the option would be there to work Sunday but it would be people's choice to work that day.

Maz
20-03-2012, 09:18 AM
“What I hope to see in Crystal Palace is a new supermarket to replace the former Safeway which closed three months ago after new owner Morrisons decided it was a branch it was going to axe. The supermarket used to attract more than 42,000 customers a day from far afield, and many of these supported the local shops. I am on the committee of the local Phoenix Trust charity and know through events we host how much local businesses have suffered since Safeway closed.
The bookshop, shoe store, pubs and charity shops have all seen their trade diminish by between 25 and 50 per cent. Even businesses which are meant to be in competition with the supermarket, such as the local newsagent, have suffered.”This was very true.

Supermarkets are not always the enemy of the small trader.

Maz
20-03-2012, 09:19 AM
Being honest here, how many of those people working on a Sunday would you see in a shop during the week? Very few I'm willing to bet, the option would be there to work Sunday but it would be people's choice to work that day.I don't know how much exact choice people get legally, but my impression is 'not a lot'.

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 09:25 AM
I don't know how much exact choice people get legally, but my impression is 'not a lot'.

Who is giving them not a lot of choice? I'm intrigued to know this.

Maz
20-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Who is giving them not a lot of choice? I'm intrigued to know this.Their employers.

My views, I confess, are based on anecdote ("They told me if I wanted to stay in the job I'd need to work weekends"). It would be interesting ot know if there is something more substantial out there.

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 09:28 AM
Their employers.

My views, I confess, are based on anecdote ("They told me if I wanted to stay in the job I'd need to work weekends"). It would be interesting ot know if there is something more substantial out there.

But who are we talking about here? Are we talking about small businesses or large companies?

Maz
20-03-2012, 09:29 AM
But who are we talking about here? Are we talking about small businesses or large companies?In my case I was talking about supermarkets.

Dave
20-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Nobody, he is a shut in and is making this up

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 09:40 AM
To be honest as well, if you're working in a supermarket then weekends are going to be the busiest time. It all depends on the type of contract you have signed.

Blind_Eagle
20-03-2012, 09:59 AM
This was very true.

Supermarkets are not always the enemy of the small trader.


...out of town supermarkets...


:)

GUCCI Eagle
20-03-2012, 12:01 PM
I disagree.

Nice for the middle classes to go shopping maybe. But less nice for those who have to serve them.

Time and a half offer on Sat/Sun

GUCCI Eagle
20-03-2012, 12:06 PM
If you want to avoid working at the weekend, then it's probably best to avoid working in retail. Same goes for working in the military if you want to avoid spending extending time in foreign countries.

Out of all the possible jobs available in the UK, most have their downsides. For example, Wayne Rooney has a circa £120,000 a week salary - unfortunately that means he has to work on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon when he should be in the pub drinking and shouting at the television.

Maz
20-03-2012, 02:54 PM
:) :):p

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 02:59 PM
I can understand Nigel's anxiety about this, but it was always bound to happen. We are going to have a city full of tourists - why limit the amount of time a shop can open?

Think the Sunday trading laws are outdated in any case.

Maz
20-03-2012, 03:02 PM
Think the Sunday trading laws are outdated in any case.Wait until you have kids.

Personally, I think they are vital to British family life.

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 03:25 PM
Wait until you have kids.

Personally, I think they are vital to British family life.

I see that - but then I also see communities where doesn't matter if shops are open or not, family life is maintained.

I'd rather family life was based on strength of ties than just because there is nothing else to do.

Dave
20-03-2012, 03:28 PM
I love the way Maz has gone from refusing to change a nappy to the children are the worlds greatest gift in but a few short years

It's touching

I don't think kids are damaged or worse off because their parents work weekends

Maz
20-03-2012, 03:31 PM
I love the way Maz has gone from refusing to change a nappy to the children are the worlds greatest gift in but a few short years

It's touching

I don't think kids are damaged or worse off because their parents work weekends

I love the way Dave can't express an opinion about anything without having a personal pop at someone else.

He is a deeply sad man and I do hope he finds happiness in something other than negativity at some point in his life.

Crofty
20-03-2012, 03:35 PM
So the Government think that lifting the Sunday Trading restrictions will "boost the economy". How does that work then?

No more money will be spent on Sundays but, instead of it being the one day a week when small independent retailers actually have a slight competitive advantage, it will mean that the Tesco's and their ilk can have a grand stab at grabbing the remaining trade that they haven't sofar been able to get their hands on.

Small independent retailers will once again be screwed for the benefit of Tory party funding corporates by a government that, when it actually comes to delivering policies that help the country, are proving themselves more rudderless that the Mary ******* Celeste


Like all Tory 'initiatives' this wonderful idea is being mooted as a precurser to lifting the Sunday trading laws completely. Why do we constantly swallow this horseshit from these lying, mendacious Tory bastards?:veryangry

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 03:47 PM
Wait until you have kids.

Personally, I think they are vital to British family life.

But I'm not sure how a few extra hours on a Sunday will ruin this.

Maz
20-03-2012, 03:55 PM
But I'm not sure how a few extra hours on a Sunday will ruin this.

When I was growing up, my Dad did a six day week for about ten years (and was consequently knackered on the seventh day). I genuinely think that this severely damaged our relationship when I was a teenager : I didn't really know him that well at all.

Now I confess that it's a personal view, but I look at society today (and this is without even taking into account all those single parents) and my own suspicion is that the fragmentation of family life (and Sunday Trading is a part of that) is directly responsible for many of our problems.

art malice
20-03-2012, 03:56 PM
Wait until you have kids.

Personally, I think they are vital to British family life.

Absolutely. Families just wouldn't be the same without kids.

Maz
20-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Absolutely. Families just wouldn't be the same without kids. :D

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 03:58 PM
When I was growing up, my Dad did a six day week for about ten years (and was consequently knackered on the seventh day). I genuinely think that this severely damaged our relationship when I was a teenager : I didn't really know him that well at all.

Now I confess that it's a personal view, but I look at society today (and this is without even taking into account all those single parents) and my own suspicion is that the fragmentation of family life (and Sunday Trading is a part of that) is directly responsible for many of our problems.

Offices in Pakistan have a 5 and a half day working week. Shops are open all hours all days.

No family life lost there - rich or poor, no matter hours worked, family remains key.

The problem is not shops - it's attitude.

Maz
20-03-2012, 04:03 PM
Offices in Pakistan have a 5 and a half day working week. Shops are open all hours all days.

No family life lost there - rich or poor, no matter hours worked, family remains key.
I really don't think you can compare the two can you?

In the UK we don't have the Family Support Network in the same way that tends to be the case there (largely because of the way our property market has developed).

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 04:04 PM
I really don't think you can compare the two can you?

In the UK we don't have the Family Support Network in the same way that tends to be the case there (largely because of the way our property market has developed).

The comparison was only in the bit you edited out.

It's all about attitude.

Maz
20-03-2012, 04:09 PM
The comparison was only in the bit you edited out.

It's all about attitude.Oh.

So you are assuming that my father's attitude to his family was wrong? That's a bit off; I wouldn't criticise your family.

The only reason he was working six days was to put me through school, Klinx.

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 04:13 PM
Oh.

So you are assuming that my father's attitude to his family was wrong? That's a bit off; I wouldn't criticise your family.

The only reason he was working six days was to put me through school, Klinx.

I think you know full well that I meant society's attitude.

Plus, being the age you are, your father did that in a very different era - I am talking about the attitude today.

Maz
20-03-2012, 04:15 PM
I think you know full well that I meant society's attitude.

No, I don't.

I don't see why a big unsubstantiated claim about society trumps an anecdote.

Justin
20-03-2012, 04:16 PM
I think you know full well that I meant society's attitude.

I don't know, the poor fellow would probably have wanted to work 7 days a week if he could have.

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 04:17 PM
No, I don't.

I don't see why a big unsubstantiated claim about society trumps an anecdote.

You don't think that it's a sad reflection of our society that you think shops need to be shut for family values to remain?

It's beyond sad - and it will take more than keeping ships shut to change it.

west country boy
20-03-2012, 04:18 PM
Sunday trading laws are a load of old cock.

Maz
20-03-2012, 04:20 PM
You don't think that it's a sad reflection of our society that you think shops need to be shut for family values to remain?

.But I don't think anyone has said that?

It's about eroding family values ; but they are not, as you suggest, the only key to the survival of these values.

pete eagle
20-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Oh.

So you are assuming that my father's attitude to his family was wrong? That's a bit off; I wouldn't criticise your family.

The only reason he was working six days was to put me through school, Klinx.

As an anecdote, this is personal choice rather than work pressure though. I'm still struggling to see how Sunday trading directly affects family life because from your own anecdote, it is personal choice that has had the impact.

Maz
20-03-2012, 04:22 PM
As an anecdote, this is personal choice rather than work pressure though. I'm still struggling to see how Sunday trading directly affects family life because from your own anecdote, it is personal choice that has had the impact.Because - and you will (may) recall I was talking about supermarkets - I am fairly certain that personal choice is being largely removed.

It's just a viewpoint; I don't have a thesis.

kolinkins
20-03-2012, 04:57 PM
But I don't think anyone has said that?



You said it.

Maz
20-03-2012, 05:19 PM
You said it.Er, no.

Blind_Eagle
20-03-2012, 06:37 PM
I can understand Nigel's anxiety about this, but it was always bound to happen. We are going to have a city full of tourists - why limit the amount of time a shop can open?

Think the Sunday trading laws are outdated in any case.

Our sales will be hit on every day of the Olympics, it's a known event and we plan accordingly. It's exactly the same for the World Cup.

My concern regarding the proposed temporary lifting of the Sunday Trading Laws is for the typical corner shop / newsagents / offie / grocers which will be badly hit by something they had no idea was even going to happen until a couple of days ago.

As you say London will be full of tourists but, with the greatest of respect, London isn't the only place in Britain where these laws will be suspended. :)

Maz
20-03-2012, 06:42 PM
.
As you say London will be full of tourists but, with the greatest of respect, London isn't the only place in Britain where these laws will be suspended. :) that is a much better rebuttal of what I was saying!

Don't know why this should be nationwide.

DANGERMOUSE
20-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Maybe I inhabit a parallel universe, but where I live the big stores have been open for six hours (plus 'browsing') every Sunday since 1994. Yet if a stranger to these shores read this thread they'd be forgiven for thinking Sunday opening is a novel idea, given the reaction of some critics. Yet, whether you like it or not, the horse has well and truly bolted when it comes retail staff working weekends - and all the broken families that allegedly involves.

So I really don't get the fuss about shops opening 9-6 instead of 11-5; what additional damage will that do to workers' families and society that hasn't been done already?

As for the point about local shops suffering if supermarkets open for longer - I don't follow that either. Like most people, I live less than two miles from a supermarket. Were I need to buy an emergency loaf on a Sunday evening I would have to drive past a Co-op, three independent convenience stores, and a petrol station to get there. This I, and I think most people, would not do. So my local store gets my custom the same as it would if the supermarket was shut. The only reason I would make the effort to go to the supermarket at that time would be to do a big grocery shop - the type I would never attempt in a small store in the first place.

I really cannot see what the fuss is about.

Maz
21-03-2012, 07:06 AM
Maybe I inhabit a parallel universe
.
You are not the first person to have wondered this...

Brett
21-03-2012, 01:32 PM
Our sales will be hit on every day of the Olympics, it's a known event and we plan accordingly. It's exactly the same for the World Cup.

My concern regarding the proposed temporary lifting of the Sunday Trading Laws is for the typical corner shop / newsagents / offie / grocers which will be badly hit by something they had no idea was even going to happen until a couple of days ago.

As you say London will be full of tourists but, with the greatest of respect, London isn't the only place in Britain where these laws will be suspended. :)

I'm with you on this. I've never been short of somehwere to spend money 'in town' on Sunday, whether it be on art, entertainment, tat or grub. Central London is chock full of places that are already allowed to open all day based on their smaller square-footage.

Quite why we need PC World to be open for 24 hours during the Olympics is a mystery. It's not as if tourists coming from the southern Europe - for example - are used to 24/7 trading hours.

Louis
26-07-2012, 09:09 PM
I live less than two miles from a supermarket. Were I need to buy an emergency loaf on a Sunday evening I would have to drive past a Co-op, three independent convenience stores, and a petrol station to get there. This I, and I think most people, would not do. So my local store gets my custom the same as it would if the supermarket was shut.
Fair point, although for a growing number of people the local convenience store is a Tesco Metro.

Louis
26-07-2012, 09:12 PM
I was in the West End last Sunday when I realised there was all day Sunday opening. Nike was open at 11am and John Lewis was still open at 7.30pm. Quite convenient, but personally I'd abolish Sunday trading. I've got a feeling this temporary all day Sunday opening will might become permanent in time. though.