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Tristanjt
15-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Well, an interesting game. I don't get to many away game but some mates and myself thought we'd drive up for a day out.

I felt we were decent in the first half although they probably came closer to scoring with a few long range efforts. Bolasie had an awesome cut in at one stage and missed a 1 on 1. Murray's goal was curious as it sort of took the stand a few seconds to realise it had gone in.

I feared the worst after Moritz missed that chance in the second half, although I think he had a fantastic game overall - his touch and vision were excellent. Parr did excellent for the second goal and we seemed to be cruising at that stage. When they had the penalty disallowed I was pretty convinced I was going to see my first Palace away win for 5 years, but I don't know what happened next? We seemed to completely lose the midfield for a ten minute period and the game turned. Zigic was a beast for them - did he score with his first touch?

Both sides could have won it at the end. Would have taken a point before the game but our inability to keep clean sheets is going to cost us - always disappointing to through away a lead. At least Cardiff lost.

Bolasie was easily our MotM. Zaha wasn't involved at all. I also thought Ward and Moritz had good game and Murray did well with limited chances.

On another note - amazing chanting. 'Xmas at Matalan' and the Jimmy Saville/Marlon King fusion were excellent.

eaglejez
15-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Basically we were in total control after 70 mins. Should and could have been more. I was just thinking it could actually be relaxing when Zigic came on. For a start I had been slagging him off recently so he was bound to score but basically he was the last throw of the dice to join the other 2 or 3 strikers. Normally it wouldn't work but today it did. We struggled to deal with his height. Scoring straight away meant we were on the back foot for the last 20 although we could have nicked it.

As everyone has said our first choice 12 players are good enough to go up. Unfortunately we don't have the depth at the moment which could cost us.

Hate to say it but our support was really subdued and pretty quiet today.

Disappointing :(

Youknowitstrue
15-12-2012, 08:45 PM
Thought we were the better team, and were only in real trouble when Zigic came on, what can you do to defend against that?

Speroni: 7 - pulled off a good save or two in the first half, especially to deny Lovenkrands. Couldn't stop their 2 goals.

Ward: 7 - good going forward, but at times he had drifted inside and left gaps.

Rambo: 7 - solid, struggled against Zigic

Delaney: 7 - see Rambo

Parr: 8 - works his socks off, doesn't stop running, set up our second

Garvan: 7 - dished the ball out well, but struggled against Dioup and was pushed off the ball

KG: 7 - similar to Garvan, some strong challenges, and did better against dioup

Moritz: 8 - Class act, some of his passing is world class, could have won it for us when we were winning but put the ball over, required sub for gabbidon to try deal with Zigic

Bolasie: 9 - went round his man every time, speed, skill, Motm for us.

Zaha: 6 - Just isn't the same since England, struggles to go past people, loses the ball constantly, was offside far too many times first half, but 1 good pass to set Moritz up.

Murray: 9 - 2 good tap in goals, where you need him. His touch, strength and hold up play is exceptional. Hope his injury isn't bad.

Wilbraham: 6 - didn't have long

Gabbidon: 6 - same as wilbs

We were by far the better passing side, some of the passing was amazing. Brum did not look anything until zigic came on and the crowd urged them on. KG could have won it at the end, but let's move on and kill off these teams!

Mad Raschic Ken
15-12-2012, 08:45 PM
Bolasie was fantastic. Pace, skill and incredible work rate. Unfortunately Wilf was way off - certainly from a work rate perspective. Birmingham handled him well. Hard, but fair. I thought we badly missed Jedinak in the last 20 minutes. I'm sure we'd have held on with him in the team. Probably a decent point, but another in a long list of games we've drawn from a winning position.

marky1919
15-12-2012, 08:49 PM
Thought we were the better team, and were only in real trouble when Zigic came on, what can you do to defend against that?

Speroni: 7 - pulled off a good save or two in the first half, especially to deny Lovenkrands. Couldn't stop their 2 goals.

Ward: 7 - good going forward, but at times he had drifted inside and left gaps.

Rambo: 7 - solid, struggled against Zigic

Delaney: 7 - see Rambo

Parr: 8 - works his socks off, doesn't stop running, set up our second

Garvan: 7 - dished the ball out well, but struggled against Dioup and was pushed off the ball

KG: 7 - similar to Garvan, some strong challenges, and did better against dioup

Moritz: 8 - Class act, some of his passing is world class, could have won it for us when we were winning but put the ball over, required sub for gabbidon to try deal with Zigic

Bolasie: 9 - went round his man every time, speed, skill, Motm for us.

Zaha: 6 - Just isn't the same since England, struggles to go past people, loses the ball constantly, was offside far too many times first half, but 1 good pass to set Moritz up.

Murray: 9 - 2 good tap in goals, where you need him. His touch, strength and hold up play is exceptional. Hope his injury isn't bad.

Wilbraham: 6 - didn't have long

Gabbidon: 6 - same as wilbs

We were by far the better passing side, some of the passing was amazing. Brum did not look anything until zigic came on and the crowd urged them on. KG could have won it at the end, but let's move on and kill off these teams!

Injury??!! What injury? :sob:

MrImpossible
15-12-2012, 08:50 PM
After it went to 2-1, I thought the team seemed confused about whether to keep pushing forwards or change to a defensive approach and there were moments where defenders seemed to want runs to be made in front of them but midfielders trying to play conservatively.

Zaha looked lethargic if you are generous, I don't know what is going wrong for him at the moment and hopefully it is just a blip, but he wanted so much time on the ball today, didn't want to compete for the ball and was at fault losing the ball for their first (not too dissimilar to his losing the ball in the middle Vs Brighton which led to us nearly conceededing).

We were the better team in the first half, but Birmingham took their chances when they came very clinically and in the last five minutes if anyone was going to win then it would have been them. We were unfortunate in making a defensive substitution to try and keep it at 2-1 but then conceeding shortly afterwards which then hemmed us in at the back.

Tristanjt
15-12-2012, 09:15 PM
Murray walked back on to clap the fans after the game, didn't seem to be in any discomfort. Need to wait and see with that one. I agree we missed Jedi at the end, we just couldn't cope with their big guys. They didn't deserve on account of their awful fans alone though.

Eagle96
15-12-2012, 09:16 PM
Is it time to drop Zaha and play Moritz and Bolasie out wide with Garvan in the hole against Huddersfield, so that he's rearing to go to for Forest and Cardiff? Would this help him find his form again? It does with most players that stop playing well for a few games on the trot...

I think we can beat Huddersfield without starting Wilf because we're at home. If Murray isn't fit then Wilf has to start, but otherwise, drop Wilf imo.

maestro
15-12-2012, 09:37 PM
Its time like today when we miss someone like Gardner, an absolutely massive center back who can just head long balls away at the end of games when under pressure

doogleboy
15-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Zaha is off in Januray, so obvious from his body language and performances. His head is elsehwhere sadly. Thanks to England and Neil Ashton for that one

Tristanjt
15-12-2012, 09:42 PM
Is it time to drop Zaha and play Moritz and Bolasie out wide with Garvan in the hole against Huddersfield, so that he's rearing to go to for Forest and Cardiff? Would this help him find his form again? It does with most players that stop playing well for a few games on the trot...

I think we can beat Huddersfield without starting Wilf because we're at home. If Murray isn't fit then Wilf has to start, but otherwise, drop Wilf imo.
Hmm, I agree that Zaha might benefit from going to the bench next game, but I think Moritz was in his element in the centre today - his vision and passing are superb.

It's difficult, because as my mate pointed out today - teams double up on Zaha, leaving Bolasie more room to play at times. It's useful having him on the team just to draw players/fouls etc - some teams still haven't figured out there's more to us than Zaha.

Gooders
15-12-2012, 09:44 PM
Don't want to jump on any bandwagons here but I was worried about how the England call up would affect Wilf and he has been a shadow of himself since then. :(

Thing is, if he was really ready for the step up already then I don't think he would have been as off his game as he has been.

Lots to learn still.

marky1919
15-12-2012, 09:44 PM
Zaha is off in Januray, so obvious from his body language and performances. His head is elsehwhere sadly. Thanks to England and Neil Ashton for that one

What a ridiculous statement. He's got a dip in form, it happens. It's not his fault he was selected by England. But to suggest he now doesn't care and is definitely off again is ludicrous. Or are you a journalist?

dim
15-12-2012, 09:51 PM
FFS leave it out. The bloke has played magically this season. A few quiet games and people are Judasing him. Pathetic.

He is 20.

Nelson Muntz
15-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Early thoughts:
Parr got dragged inside by King which left space for them to score their first goal.
Joel Ward had a great game.
The were absolute shit until the giant came on.
Glenn Murray is the dogs bollox.

eaglejez
15-12-2012, 09:58 PM
Ridiculous to consider dropping Wilf.

The Gerry Queen
15-12-2012, 10:01 PM
Gosh, reading this thread you would think we wern't 2nd in the league, Murray is the leading goal scorer with 20 before Xmas and beaten only once in nineteen games. So depressing. I know I didn't go today but this team is pulling up trees and if this is the form dip then God help the rest when we click again against Huddersfield.

selhurstparkflyer
15-12-2012, 10:08 PM
We missed Mile badly when Brum brought on Zigic an changed its formation.

palace nutter
15-12-2012, 10:08 PM
Zaha is off in Januray, so obvious from his body language and performances. His head is elsehwhere sadly. Thanks to England and Neil Ashton for that one

That should read "I'm a complete and utter bellend."

Chobham Eagle
15-12-2012, 10:16 PM
That should read "I'm a complete and utter bellend."

Indeed. Ding dong.

jobiinthelastmi
15-12-2012, 10:19 PM
We missed Mile badly when Brum brought on Zigic an changed its formation.

Yep

That changed the game, him and King upfront were battering us.

IanH
15-12-2012, 10:24 PM
It's a sign of how strong the team is this season that we have been by far the better side in most of our drawn games this season - Forest at home, Millwall at home and today was similar. Birmingham are known for being poor first half and then coming back into it second half. I thought 1-0 at half-time was a poor reflection of our dominance and that it could cost us by not having scored more, but once we scored again, that should have been game over. Unfortunately, Jedi's absence cost us dear. The defence showed it can't cope under pressure without having 2 holding midfielders covering in front of it. They got a bit exposed today. Garvan and Moritz don't work away from home although they might well work at home where teams are sitting back. To throw away a 2 goal lead in that fashion - both headers seemed to be completely unchallenged - is not the sign of a team that will go up. Let's hope Holloway has an idea of where he will strengthen in the window - we need a deeper squad.

dannyboy1807
15-12-2012, 10:37 PM
Garvan was dreadful the boy can pass superbly no denying that but lacks everything else we need someone more mobile than him.

Balosie and Murray were top class

ward and Parr did very well apart from Parr getting dragged to the right hand side because the midfielders weren't doing there job.

kg usual self did his job well Rambo and Delaney the same.

Jim Cannon
15-12-2012, 10:40 PM
What a ridiculous statement. He's got a dip in form, it happens. It's not his fault he was selected by England. But to suggest he now doesn't care and is definitely off again is ludicrous. Or are you a journalist?
This

Youknowitstrue
15-12-2012, 10:43 PM
http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/262205/report

Reading the skysports report suggests they were the better team...
Don't know what game the reporter was watching because we were by far the better team up until Zigic came on, they were mainly reduced to long pot shots through no decent play of their own but from a few mistakes from us.

Celestial Empire
15-12-2012, 10:48 PM
We missed Mile badly when Brum brought on Zigic an changed its formation.

If we are a bit vulnerable against big bruisers playing route 1, the Stoke game is already looking like a hard lesson.:(

Owngoal
15-12-2012, 10:52 PM
Jedi is the best winner of one on one headers I can remember for many years, in that sense no one is going to be able to replace him. Getting a point without him away is not that bad. Can anyone who was there give an idea about the headers they got?

Freddy Kurz
15-12-2012, 10:54 PM
Don't want to jump on any bandwagons here but I was worried about how the England call up would affect Wilf and he has been a shadow of himself since then. :(

Thing is, if he was really ready for the step up already then I don't think he would have been as off his game as he has been.

Lots to learn still.

For whatever reason, Wilf is slipping back into the same bad habits that
reduced his effectiveness early in his first-team career, just like Vince
Hilaire did many years before him - namely he is forgetting that all
his brilliant approach work must lead to an end-product. He is
falling into the trap Vince fell into of believing that dribbling round
defenders and turning them inside out is an end in itself. WRONG!
It is only of use to the team if it then leads to the killer pass, the
killer cross or to putting the ball in the net himself. It is the
end-product that is usually the most difficult thing for a forward
to accomplish - and that requires concentration and composure
in key areas under pressure - something Vince Hilaire our best
post-war dribbler never mastered on a consistent basis, which
sadly, prevented him ever winning a full England cap. If
Wilfried is to win regular England (or Ivory Coast) recognition he
will need to re-discover the importance of the end-product to
his game.

jhc
15-12-2012, 11:02 PM
We were cruising for 65 mins should have been ahead by more and quite frankly there was only one team in it. Two points dropped and the players know it. Let them back in it and Brum really didn't deserve it. Backed off too much after that and should have had someone on the back post from the corner from which they got their second.

The most disappointing thing is we are unlikely to face such a poor side this season, so it was an opportunity missed.

It happens and we must move on.
The result disguises the dominance we showed for most of the game.
Not too unhappy. We'll play worse (and we have) and win.

imashed
15-12-2012, 11:09 PM
Early thoughts:
Parr got dragged inside by King which left space for them to score their first goal.
Joel Ward had a great game.
The were absolute shit until the giant came on.
Glenn Murray is the dogs bollox.

What is it with Palace and and giant brum subs(play off final)

Ridcully
15-12-2012, 11:11 PM
Missed Jedi loads, wouldn't have lost if he had been. N the side shielding the back four. Really shows our lack in depth when we can't handle the loss of one DF for a game, need to buy before KG goes.

Murray and Bolasie a pleasure to watch today and we are carrying Wilf at the moment, it's in his head as nothing he tries is coming off and he was offside loads today.

Jan is a telling time, we need support there's no doubt, a couple of shrewd buys and well finish top.

MotM Murray, not just for his goals but also for the countless times he played as Wilf cos Wilf was anonymous.

Seaside Eagle
15-12-2012, 11:12 PM
Jedi is the best winner of one on one headers I can remember for many years, in that sense no one is going to be able to replace him. Getting a point without him away is not that bad. Can anyone who was there give an idea about the headers they got?

Free header from a corner for the second. The first one was a decent goal, really nice cross put in and Zigic attacked the ball and headed it across goal.

Both goals were avoidable though. This is two points dropped - we were by far the better team.

eagleforlife
15-12-2012, 11:16 PM
Who captained the team today?

The Gerry Queen
15-12-2012, 11:18 PM
Who captained the team today?

KG apparantly.

DaveP
15-12-2012, 11:39 PM
People suggesting dropping Zaha are crazy! He is a massive cog in the wheel to the way and style we play. Yes he is having a dip in form but he is still a masive player for our team and capable of that one moment of brilliance to change games, his assist towards our second goal shows that. We cannot expect him to keep the form he had during November for the whole season, he will have a dip like he is now but is still unstoppable for me. Plus as teams worry about him Bolasie continues to flourish, excellent again today and proving an Absolutey outstanding signing.

Absolutey loved Murray's celebration for the second goal. Not often we see him smile but even he loved that one getting his 20th goal of the season, a top top player.

BBK
15-12-2012, 11:48 PM
Murray, Bolasie and Parr were the best performers, Murray is my MOTM because I love seeing him score, shame he didn't get the 2 and 0 with his hands the right way round for the celebration.

I knew Glenn Murray was a good player, glad I never slagged him off last season like quite a few did. I love him even more than AJ.

rednblue eagle
16-12-2012, 12:00 AM
Really not sure what to make of today, first 60 minutes we were in complete control and as soon as Zigic came on we capitulated. Thought we missed Jedinak a lot, as soon as they scored their first, no one knew what they were doing, think he would have dealt with Zigic better too.

Speroni - 6 - Could do nothing about the goals, distribution was good.

Ward - 7 - Bombed up and down the right all game. Exposed a couple of times in the first half but thought he had a good game.

Parr - 7.5 - Great engine, also had a good game. Linked up with Bolasie and Zaha well. Got the assist his attacking play deserved.

Ramage - 6 - Solid until Zigic and then combined with Delaney didn't have a clue what to do.

Delaney - 6 - See Ramage.

KG - 6 - Won the ball well on occasions, caught on the ball in the first half and was lucky not to be punished for it by Lovenkrands.

Garvan - 7 - Some cracking passes in first half and early second but once Zigic came on he was out of the game, personally think he should have been taken off instead of Moritz.

Moritz - 8 - Great performance, pinged the ball all around the pitch, linked up well down the right for the first goal. Deserves to start next game. Won his fair share of headers too. Should have scored early in the second half.

Zaha - 6 - disappointing in comparison to his early season form, made a few good forward runs especially when on the break. Needed to track back more.

Bolasie - 8 - MOM - Class, beats his man with ease and isn't afraid to do the defensive work either. Deserved a goal. Made terrific runs all game.Has been our best player for the last month or so.

Murray - 8 - 2 goals, don't remember him having any other chances. held the ball up really well and has such a clever footballing mind, makes the right runs, touches the ball in the right direction. Will be top goalscorer in the league if he stays fit.

Subs -

Gabbidon - Not a defensive mid and gave the ball away with poor headers a couple of times. Strange sub to to bring on given O'Keefe was on the bench.

Wilbraham - Not on long but looked OK.

Overall, disappointed not to have won given the position we had got ourselves in. The first 60 minutes were a joy to watch, the way we passed and moved it around with such pace and accuracy means its very hard to stop us scoring.

Slightly worrying that we have given away 2 goal leads 3 times this season already though.

JDawg
16-12-2012, 12:03 AM
If this is our "inevitable dip in form" I'll live with it. However it does feel like we've chucked away four points over the past two games and let Cardiff off the hook.

Boxing Day is now the crucial fixture for both sides.

srs9jps
16-12-2012, 12:25 AM
My first game this season so can only comment on today and hopefully provide a viewpoint of someone who had no preconceived ideas about the relative abilities (or lack of).

Thoughts:

Bolasie MOM for the constant threat to Birmingham. But also for his defensive workrate- he's not the greatest defender but boy does he try. I think this is what shows up Zaha more, the contrast between the two when they lose the ball is evident. Based on today Zaha just looked pure lazy and not interested at all once Brum got the ball.

Was very impressed with Ward at RB, showed composure on the ball and got in numerous blocks in threatening situations. Parr at LB also looks a good player but gets exposed by the aforementioned lack of tracking back from Zaha.

Not sure why Moritz is being rated so highly for today's game, IMHO he didn't impact on the game enough and when he had the chance to put the game to bed his first touch was poor, allowing the keeper to close before he put it over. Seems to be a fan's favourite, can't see why based on today- a good song though: 'Get Moritz out for the lads':p

NorthernEagle80
16-12-2012, 12:36 AM
How did Bolasie end up marking King for their second? You have to question the defensive organisation there! Two points dropped but we're still in second. Like someone said earlier if this is our dip God help the opposition when we're back in form!

Vince Hilaire's Afro
16-12-2012, 01:00 AM
Ridiculous to consider dropping Wilf.
Dropping him and saying 'get your ******* arse in gear', yes. But saying 'have a rest for a game or two, you've gone through a lot, just recharge your batteries'...... I don't think that's ridiculous at all. Or keep him on the bench so he can have a couple of impact games.

At 20 years old, he's carried a lot on his shoulders recently. No shame in taking a breather.

PeterH
16-12-2012, 02:45 AM
If this is our "inevitable dip in form" I'll live with it. However it does feel like we've chucked away four points over the past two games and let Cardiff off the hook.

Boxing Day is now the crucial fixture for both sides.

Problem is that the chasing pack have caught up with us.

Jerry Murphy's Fringe
16-12-2012, 04:42 AM
So,
two points off top,
two goals away from home,
we're not going down,
we didn't lose

Did we say any of these things during last season?

So - the trajectory is good and one of the best signings of the season is in our ranks; IH.

We have, I'd suggest, a strong starting XI but then it drops away a tad. This is normal for Championship teams and is the prime difference against Premiership teams, but IH has stated that he will be bringing some players in during Jan.

FFS is outstanding, but as economists will tell you, a free market can not survive with a single dominant untity. A dip in FFS' performnace will have a disproportinate effect upon the team's.

We seem to have the goal supply from the front 4, but no second string CF who can be relied upon for 10 - 15 goals. What a wonderful criticism to make of Palace, that is. To think the last player to hit 20 was Lord Darren of Ambrose, across an entire season, therefore we must be on fire now.

So, not the time to throw our hands in the air quite yet;
- Coaching staff need to unpack the causes of letting in two goals,
- a potential reality check against Stoke in three weeks (albeit subject to both teams not fielding their A-List),
- the transfer window; Wilf will stay, but defo go in Summer if we stay down, but that will fund a better squad and put cash in the company account for next year, so no hard feelings there.
- we still have Joniesta to come back.

selhurstparkflyer
16-12-2012, 07:30 AM
Wilf was off side 4 times yesterday. He really needs to sort that out; it's so sloppy.

Tomo
16-12-2012, 07:39 AM
Dropping him and saying 'get your ******* arse in gear', yes. But saying 'have a rest for a game or two, you've gone through a lot, just recharge your batteries'...... I don't think that's ridiculous at all. Or keep him on the bench so he can have a couple of impact games.

At 20 years old, he's carried a lot on his shoulders recently. No shame in taking a breather.completely agree.

The problem is we don't have a back up for him.

eaglejez
16-12-2012, 09:33 AM
We missed Mile badly when Brum brought on Zigic an changed its formation.

they went 4-2-4. Zigic is a beast and lumping it to a big man with 20 mins to go was their last throw of the dice. Most days it wouldn't work - disappointingly today it did.

eaglejez
16-12-2012, 09:37 AM
We were cruising for 65 mins should have been ahead by more and quite frankly there was only one team in it. Two points dropped and the players know it. Let them back in it and Brum really didn't deserve it. Backed off too much after that and should have had someone on the back post from the corner from which they got their second.

The most disappointing thing is we are unlikely to face such a poor side this season, so it was an opportunity missed.

It happens and we must move on.
The result disguises the dominance we showed for most of the game.
Not too unhappy. We'll play worse (and we have) and win.

good summary. I'm trying to get that across to the moaners who have suddenly gone from 'he's just too good for you' to 'he's rubbish and should be dropped'. I know this is a football messageboard but sometimes its just ridiculous. We should feel disappointed we dropped 2 points when we should have won but everyone lighten up FFS (pun intended) :p

Psychokiller
16-12-2012, 09:39 AM
Not a bad result by any means. Not that bad a performance either. Our most important player, and the best midfielder in the division, was missing so tbh I didn't expect much.

mik59
16-12-2012, 09:47 AM
FFS is outstanding, but as economists will tell you, a free market can not survive with a single dominant untity. A dip in FFS' performnace will have a disproportinate effect upon the team's.I like it, though are we a true free market? Would you say that there is some argument in favour of the protectionism we've seen under previous administrations, perhaps not the rigidity we see elsewhere but certainly some flexi-curity?

glaziers fan
16-12-2012, 09:52 AM
Speroni 8 world class fingertip save and good on crosses

Parr 8 excellent both ways, although could have played Zaha in shortly after the 2nd goal. Wilf was screaming at him afterwards
Delaney 7 Solid
Ramage 7 Solid
Ward 8 Our best player in first half

Zaha 5 A poor game from him, but worked hard. Didn't like his offsides (about 5 in first half) because he wasn't going anywhere - it wasn't like he was trying to get in behind. He needs to run with more pace and less skill. Seemed to get a little more space this game. His form will return soon. IMHO he still has the desire and will wreak havoc again soon. Certainly NOT ready for a move yet.

KG 6 Average performance - one good sliding tackle. Captain's performance? I don't think so.
Garvan 6 Some tackles and one superb spin and 40 yard pass in 2nd half.

Bolasie 7 Good again. Outshone Wilf because he runs with pace to beat a player rather than trying to twist him to death

Moritz 8 MOM. Yes, he missed a great chance but he won headers, worked hard and constantly involved in our best moves; running with the ball and trying to thread through passes. The boy is class and needs to start regularly.

Murray 8 Playing with supreme confidence. Good all round play as well as the 2 goals.

Felt we were solid at the back, and the full backs played very well. We lost it in centre mid, and obviously missed Jedinak. Garvan is not good enough to start - he's a luxury player, and we surrender the midfield. KG is average, and just a decent squad player - it's a blessing he's going to the African Cup.
We looked so good going forward. Dominated the first half.

Our midfield in Jan should be (without any doubt):

-----------Jedinak---------
----Williams----Moritz

With that midfield we can dominate and destroy teams. There's enough tackling ability there. They can move and work hard. We need to believe in ourselves and Ian Holloway. We CAN win this league. I saw that confidently for the first time at Brum game. Don't worry about the defensive aerial frailty because Zigic is a o e off and Jedinak will be back next game. The first XI will pick itself and needs no new additions. But we will need to sign 1 or 2 for bench and cover, which is weak.

We need to back ourselves. Very very encouraging performance. Don't get on Zaha's back at games. We go forward as a team.

cdm61
16-12-2012, 09:58 AM
We should have been way out of sight before Zigic came on - first 15 minutes we had enough chances to be 2 up - then we faded until a surprise goal just before half time - same story second half. We go two up and its goodnight...until Zigic, who created panic in the defence - we let in two unmarked headers, despite us having 11 men in the box for the second...poor flat footed marking - too many unforced errors today - misplaced passes, hoofed clearances and dilly-dallying with the ball

Yes we missed Jedi - but poor decision making (Zaha loosing the ball for their first) and defensive mistakes cost us 2 points.

The team needs strengthening the bench didn't have a threat/creativity or defensive option on it.

Good games - Murray, Bolaise, Parr, Ward, Moritz
Average game - Garvan, Delaney, Speroni, KG
Off game - Zaha, Ramage, Gabbidon

Skid Row
16-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Have we lost our mojo a little?

baldeagle68
16-12-2012, 10:23 AM
We bossed that game for 70 minutes and should have been out of sight and that was with no Jed...... They got lucky on 2 counts.
1. Us not taking all our chances.
2. Zigic paid off when in most cases it wouldn't have. It was more the fact that he scored with his first touch and minutes after being brought on that lifted them and the crowd slightly.
But we're in good shape!
Yes it will be nice to get 1 or 2 in but the lot we've got can do this....easy....
86 points for promotion....and we're still ahead for that target:p :p :p

Malarkey
16-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Bolasie gets my vote (again)

morrisons shirt
16-12-2012, 10:32 AM
For whatever reason, Wilf is slipping back into the same bad habits that
reduced his effectiveness early in his first-team career, just like Vince
Hilaire did many years before him - namely he is forgetting that all
his brilliant approach work must lead to an end-product. He is
falling into the trap Vince fell into of believing that dribbling round
defenders and turning them inside out is an end in itself. WRONG!
It is only of use to the team if it then leads to the killer pass, the
killer cross or to putting the ball in the net himself. It is the
end-product that is usually the most difficult thing for a forward
to accomplish - and that requires concentration and composure
in key areas under pressure - something Vince Hilaire our best
post-war dribbler never mastered on a consistent basis, which
sadly, prevented him ever winning a full England cap. If
Wilfried is to win regular England (or Ivory Coast) recognition he
will need to re-discover the importance of the end-product to
his game.
wilf not fit to lace vinces boots. fact!

palacedeano
16-12-2012, 11:13 AM
Joint Man of the match between Bolaise & the fans. Some very funny songs

Radders
16-12-2012, 11:23 AM
Dropping him and saying 'get your ******* arse in gear', yes. But saying 'have a rest for a game or two, you've gone through a lot, just recharge your batteries'...... I don't think that's ridiculous at all. Or keep him on the bench so he can have a couple of impact games.

At 20 years old, he's carried a lot on his shoulders recently. No shame in taking a breather.

Couldnt have put it better. Nobody is saying it would be done in a way that would damage the lad, just that a little rest may help aid his physical and mental recovery.

jobiinthelastmi
16-12-2012, 12:43 PM
Have we lost our mojo a little?

Not really no

First half our passing was really good. Bolasie was ripping them a new one down the wing and should have scored early on when he went through on goal.

Birmingham were a very physical side, I'm not just talking about winning headers, they were hacking us down quite a lot when they were under pressure.

For the next game I would swap Garvan for Jedi he didn't offer enough for me yesterday.

Also we need to actually have a shot when we are in and near their area, too much pissing around lets them get back into position and get bodies infront of goal. If you have a chance just bloody shoot.

brighton_eagle
16-12-2012, 12:44 PM
Sounded like them not getting the pen changed the game as much as their subs. Only listened on PP, but they suggested it was a stonewall penalty. Is that fair?

jobiinthelastmi
16-12-2012, 12:46 PM
Sounded like them not getting the pen changed the game as much as their subs. Only listened on PP, but they suggested it was a stonewall penalty. Is that fair?

Yep, looked like it was a penalty, a bit of a soft one their player made the most of it. But it angered their players and fans. Gave the whole team a lift and we crumbled when they brought Zigic one.

Freddy Kurz
16-12-2012, 12:47 PM
wilf not fit to lace vinces boots. fact!

But is young enough and has the natural talent to develop into an even
better player than Vince, provided he is willing to learn and work harder
to improve his game, and above all, ensure that there is always an end
-product to his game. His job is not JUST to entertain his fan club,
but to produce positive results for his team..........

$64,000 question why with all his dribbling ability did Vince never ever
win a full England cap???

palace nutter
16-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Can't really pass blame on the CBs for the two goals despite them being headers.

Bit annoying we didn;t clear the second off the line as we have done a lot this season but what can you do when two 6ft 5+ blokes score headers. We did miss JEdi's height more than anything else.

I was a little bit disappointed in Moritz if I'm honest.

Golf Boy
16-12-2012, 12:52 PM
wilf not fit to lace vinces boots. fact!


that is bollox

Jim Cannon
16-12-2012, 12:53 PM
But is young enough and has the natural talent to develop into an even
better player than Vince, provided he is willing to learn and work harder
to improve his game.

$64,000 question why with all his dribbling ability did Vince never ever
win a full England cap???
Because he was inconsistent and at times could be infuriating

For someone so gifted he never fulfilled anything like his potential

But I for one believe Wilf will

Nigelbrag
16-12-2012, 12:59 PM
What is so disappointing, for the second game in a row we have given away points from a winning position at the death. We have got to stay focused until the final whistle, these dropped points could prove to be crucial come the end of the season. Hopefully when McCarthy is fully fit and can team up with Delaney in the middle, and Jedi sitting in front will give us that solidity at the heart of the team. Also what is of concern is Zaha's sudden loss in form at a crucial period, it may need IH, SP and Zaha with his advisers to sit around the table again to resolve any problem there Maybe, but hopefully it is just a temp blip in form and nothing sinister.

palace nutter
16-12-2012, 01:00 PM
What about that penalty not given to them? Looked absolutely stone wall and why did the ref point to the spot first?

Dobbo
16-12-2012, 01:35 PM
We missed Mile badly when Brum brought on Zigic an changed its formation.

Suspect Jedi would not have allowed Papa Dioup the free header for their equaliser.

cranesparkeagle
16-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Not having been I want to ask if people think we would have seen it out with Jedi there. Seemed we got a bit deep and failed to mark up for Birminghams goals

maestro
16-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Just watched the highlights

The 2nd goal they scored was a fantastic header but the first was poor defending, yet again an opposition attacker free only a few yards out from goal.

I feel we really do need a better center half, it seems to me that it doesnt take much pressure for us to conceed a goal

RAB
16-12-2012, 02:13 PM
The BBC stats show us as having 5 shots and only 1 on target. Yet we scored twice. I was there and it seemed we were more on top than those stats but I'm biased.

When the going gets tough as it often does playing away, any team which hopes to win this league or go up, needs players with heart and soul it can count on. Jedi has shown with his ability but more so with his leadership that he was going to be missed. So it proved in the last 20 mins in a match we really should have won.

Murray, like Jedi (and Paddy) who I consider the sort of players who have that heart and soul to show steel and determination was missed in the last 10 mins. Not only did any chance of us scoring go with him but we also missed his presence and courage when we defend set pieces.

Murray was my MOTM simply because it's always goals that count and for all Bolasie's brilliance, it would come to nothing if there was no one in the box to put the ball in the net.

As for Zaha, something seems not quite right with his head at the moment. Whether it's the speculation, the weight of expectation, the increased attention from defenders or the competition from Bolasie, who knows? Maybe all of this. He probably would benefit with a rest but there is no way we can do without him. Let's hope somehow it all comes back again for him and Palace soon because he is special.

jobiinthelastmi
16-12-2012, 02:50 PM
Just watched the highlights

The 2nd goal they scored was a fantastic header but the first was poor defending, yet again an opposition attacker free only a few yards out from goal.

I feel we really do need a better center half, it seems to me that it doesnt take much pressure for us to conceed a goal

We've got a decent centre back. Delaney and Ramage would have been shit in last years team with last years tactics. The defence this season isn't under half the pressure of last years.

Paddy

Oli28
16-12-2012, 03:04 PM
I thought Ward had a very good game, particularly in the 1st half.

MrImpossible
16-12-2012, 03:17 PM
What about that penalty not given to them? Looked absolutely stone wall and why did the ref point to the spot first?

This confused me too. Didn't see an offside flag up so it wasn't that I don't think. It did look like a penalty to me too- clumsy collision but if it had been the other way and waved off then I would have been furious!

Penstone Eagle
16-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Just watched the highlights

The 2nd goal they scored was a fantastic header but the first was poor defending, yet again an opposition attacker free only a few yards out from goal.

I feel we really do need a better center half, it seems to me that it doesnt take much pressure for us to conceed a goal


I'm sure the defending can be better, but we have a goal keeper who does not come for the ball in these situations, I'm sure any defender would tell you that a keeper can take some pressure off the defenders by punching clear. He can't/ won't do this and the attacker will always have the advantage running in toward goal and jumping.

Andy Thorn
16-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Given that we had Jedi out suspended, I'd have happily taken a point before the game.

5 games unbeaten; if this is our poor spell then god help the rest of this division. One or two new signings in January and we'll be in the automatic promotion places come next May.

The Gerry Queen
16-12-2012, 04:01 PM
Just watched the highlights

The 2nd goal they scored was a fantastic header but the first was poor defending, yet again an opposition attacker free only a few yards out from goal.

I feel we really do need a better center half, it seems to me that it doesnt take much pressure for us to conceed a goal

We have the 5th best Championship defence as well as the best attack in terms of goal scored. If it ain't broke don't fix it. We do need to work on snuffing out long diagonal crosses though.

Mictor Voses
16-12-2012, 04:04 PM
Got back at 8pm last night, headed out at 830 and was meant to get the last train home but have only just got in!

An interesting game. Really enjoyed the first 70 minutes where I thought we were absolutely superb causing a very poor and very static Birmingham side all kinds of problems. There is no doubt we should have been more than 2-0 up with Moritz blazing over from 6 yards out and Wilf not being on form (more about that later) but these things happen.

The game no doubt changed when Zigic came on. Birimingham were so short of ideas that the only way they could possibly get back into the game was to bring him on and give us a completely new problem. Fair play to Clark (who I think is a very limited manager, a thick person and just a bit of a prat whose reputation was built on Jordan Rhodes) it worked and ultimately key decisions like this is what football is all about even though the decison to bring him on was hardly a bit of tactial genius.

I think that if Jedinak had been in the team we would have held on. He sits in front of the back four so well and just doesn't let anything past him- on top of this he is an extremely calming influence on the team as has been proved in some games so far this season- for the first time in ages you could see that we lacked some leadership. Interesting that for the past two games I think we have dropped points through injuries- Ward last week and Jedinak this week. What this means I don't know.

All in all though it was a very enjoyable day and great to see us playing such attacking football. Whatever happens this season all I know is that CPFC is a great club to be involved in right now and the future is extremely bright.

Just take a second to think about where we are as a club right now in comparison to Birmingham... Ratings below.

Speroni- Very good performance from Jules. Made a truly great save in the first half from Lovenkrands and was very solid throughout commanding his area very well. Distribution good also- 7.5

Ward- Awesome throughout I thought and has turned out to be a superb signing and a perfect replacement for Clyne. Provided really strong support for Bolasie down the right hand side all game with good overlapping and some clever runs. Wade Elliot (who is a top player) never got a look in all game and was subbed after an hour- 9

Delaney- Strong throughout and dealt with the rapist well all game. Shame we couldn't hold out as he would have got great praise if we had done. Played some good passes throughout the game also- 7.5

Ramage- As above. Came very close to winning it for us in extra time but his goalbound header was deflected over the bar- 7.5

Parr- Very good going forward at times looking more dangerous than Zaha down the left. Great run and pin point pass within a crowded area to Murray for our second goal. But there is no doubt that they had more joy down our left hand side compared to our right for whatever reason- partly I think because Bolaise is stronger defensively than Zaha.- 7.5

Garvan- When he is on form Garvan is one my favourite players because you always feel like he could create something from nothing with a defence splitting pass. There is not doubt we saw some of that today and he came close with an effort in the first half but all in all I felt the game passed him by. Gave the ball away that led to the 2nd goal but was unlucky in my opinion as Murray was injured at the time and couldn't move into a good position to recieve the ball. Like I said I really like him as a player and you get the impression that his attitude is spot on too but sometimes I feel like he is a bit of a passenger- 7

KG- Great to see him given the captains armband first and foremost. To go from being dropped last season for not being fit enough to being given the captains armband today is a testament to his professionalism and desire to play for this club. No doubt that led he by example but he was exposed a tad being asked to play Jedi's role for which he is not suited. KG has turned himself into a box to box CM and Jedinak has mastered the role of playing the deep lying quarter back/3rd centre back role which then allows Parr and Ward to bomb forward as Ollie likes. At times we were caught on the break today and were lucky to get away with it and if Jedi had been playing where KG was I don't think we would have come under as much pressure and we would have won the game. Still, overall KG played well and I was convinced that he scored at the death from that corner- 8

Moritz- The boy is quality and should play every week. Was the link between defence and forward line in the first half and played some great balls inside the full backs to Wilf and Bolasie. Should have scored with the 1 on 1 in the second half but was probably 2 yards too close to Butland to score without a bit of luck- 8

Bolasie- What a signing Yannick has been. Our biggest threat right now without a shadow of a doubt. Constant trickery causing havoc against a slow Birmingham back line. Has carried on his superb form from recent weeks and I really hope he can keep it up. Has built a very good partnership with Ward too- 9

Zaha- Now, I am going to speak more from the perspective of someone who has played sport at an international level and with some of the best players in the world rather than a Palace fan. Since Wilf has got his England cap there is no two ways about the fact that he is nowhere near the player he was up until the Peterborough game. Has he lost some confidence or some focus? Well to feel confident you must be focused on your game and for me Wilf has lost focus- in the past two games he has been caught offside nine times by my calculation which, for an international footballer, is quite frankly unacceptable as this is so basic it's untrue. Basic bits of skill no longer seem to come off, for someone of his incredible technical ability he loses possession far too often (and was punished for it today with their first goal, the desire to beat a man doesn't seem to be what it once was and at times his speed of thought isn't as quick as it could be. Wilf doesn't track back as much as he used to either. As far as I am concerned all the hooha has got to his head- say what you want as I said I'm speaking from a high level sportsman's perspective rather than a Palace fan. It's not that he doesn't want to be here I don't think it's just that he has forgotten what has got him there in the first place. The sooner January comes and goes the better as far as I'm concerned. What must be remembered however is that he is an extremely young man who has been thrown into the spotlight very, very quickly so dealing with all the extra things is something that he is inexperienced at and doing and therefore not very good at either. And with the media crazy world football now encompasses learning how to do this a key skill for any top player so I would like to think that with time Zaha will get his head sorted and will be back to looking like the best player we have ever produced. From a football perspective it was a poor game from him and he was rather ineffective. If this game had been played 2 months ago we would have scored 4/5 because Zaha would have penetrated more. Laid the ball off too late to Mortiz in my opinion too. What also has to be remembered is that he is the first name on team sheet and has nobody to challenge him and for me having being in that situation aged 20 isn't healthy. We need a few more wide players in the squad come January to give Zaha a push. I love the guy but he really needs to take a deep breath and get back to focusing on his game in my opinion (cue slaughter from the people who put 5000 posts a year on here, have nothing but CPFC in their lives, have never played sport at a high level and still think that we should have Tom Soares back). 6

Murray- Took his first goal really well and was in the right place at the right time yet again for his 2nd. As close to a complete centre forward as we have had at the club since Chris Armstrong. To get 20 goals before Christmas is nothing short of astonishing- MOM. 9.5.

Subs-

Gabbidon- Looks to me like he came on to play as a 3rd CB to allow either Ramage or Delaney to man mark Zigic whenever Birmingham were on the break. Played some misplaced passes and looked very short of match sharpness to me but this is to be expected. A proven player at this level (and even higher) so will no doubt do a great job if asked to play a more permanant role when called upon- 6

Wilbraham- Quite like the look of Wilbraham. Big, strong with a decent touch and no doubt will be able to fit in if called upon to have a more significant role to play. Gave some good flick on's to Yannick and showed some good clever runs- just not quite mobile enough at times. A bit unfortunate that he has the best striker in the league ahead of him and will hopefully be facing more competition in January- 7

Holloway- fair play in that he tried to combat Zigic when he came on but it wasn't to be. For some reason we backed off after they scored their first goal. Can't complain at all.

Birmingham- utter shite. They have got alot of players who are at the stage of their careers where they won't be getting any better. They should take a look at Middlesborough and see what they have done to turn themselves into such a good team after being relegated whilst balancing the books in process. Trouble is that Boro have an intelligent, calculative and experienced manager in Mowbray combined with an experienced chairman and Birmingham have a big headed gobshite in Lee Clark managing them and nobody seems to know who owns them. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see them in League 1 soon.

Looking forward to beating Huddersfield on Saturday

Mictor Voses
16-12-2012, 04:20 PM
Can't find the post who said that Wilf isn't good enough to lace Vince's boots so can't quote it.

Interesting you say this though as I had breakfast with Vince last Monday and he said Wilf looks better than he was aged 20

MAX
16-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Got back at 8pm last night, headed out at 830 and was meant to get the last train home but have only just got in!

An interesting game. Really enjoyed the first 70 minutes where I thought we were absolutely superb causing a very poor and very static Birmingham side all kinds of problems. There is no doubt we should have been more than 2-0 up with Moritz blazing over from 6 yards out and Wilf not being on form (more about that later) but these things happen.

The game no doubt changed when Zigic came on. Birimingham were so short of ideas that the only way they could possibly get back into the game was to bring him on and give us a completely new problem. Fair play to Clark (who I think is a very limited manager, a thick person and just a bit of a prat whose reputation was built on Jordan Rhodes) it worked and ultimately key decisions like this is what football is all about even though the decison to bring him on was hardly a bit of tactial genius.

I think that if Jedinak had been in the team we would have held on. He sits in front of the back four so well and just doesn't let anything past him- on top of this he is an extremely calming influence on the team as has been proved in some games so far this season- for the first time in ages you could see that we lacked some leadership. Interesting that for the past two games I think we have dropped points through injuries- Ward last week and Jedinak this week. What this means I don't know.

All in all though it was a very enjoyable day and great to see us playing such attacking football. Whatever happens this season all I know is that CPFC is a great club to be involved in right now and the future is extremely bright.

Just take a second to think about where we are as a club right now in comparison to Birmingham... Ratings below.

Speroni- Very good performance from Jules. Made a truly great save in the first half from Lovenkrands and was very solid throughout commanding his area very well. Distribution good also- 7.5

Ward- Awesome throughout I thought and has turned out to be a superb signing and a perfect replacement for Clyne. Provided really strong support for Bolasie down the right hand side all game with good overlapping and some clever runs. Wade Elliot (who is a top player) never got a look in all game and was subbed after an hour- 9

Delaney- Strong throughout and dealt with the rapist well all game. Shame we couldn't hold out as he would have got great praise if we had done. Played some good passes throughout the game also- 7.5

Ramage- As above. Came very close to winning it for us in extra time but his goalbound header was deflected over the bar- 7.5

Parr- Very good going forward at times looking more dangerous than Zaha down the left. Great run and pin point pass within a crowded area to Murray for our second goal. But there is no doubt that they had more joy down our left hand side compared to our right for whatever reason- partly I think because Bolaise is stronger defensively than Zaha.- 7.5

Garvan- When he is on form Garvan is one my favourite players because you always feel like he could create something from nothing with a defence splitting pass. There is not doubt we saw some of that today and he came close with an effort in the first half but all in all I felt the game passed him by. Gave the ball away that led to the 2nd goal but was unlucky in my opinion as Murray was injured at the time and couldn't move into a good position to recieve the ball. Like I said I really like him as a player and you get the impression that his attitude is spot on too but sometimes I feel like he is a bit of a passenger- 7

KG- Great to see him given the captains armband first and foremost. To go from being dropped last season for not being fit enough to being given the captains armband today is a testament to his professionalism and desire to play for this club. No doubt that led he by example but he was exposed a tad being asked to play Jedi's role for which he is not suited. KG has turned himself into a box to box CM and Jedinak has mastered the role of playing the deep lying quarter back/3rd centre back role which then allows Parr and Ward to bomb forward as Ollie likes. At times we were caught on the break today and were lucky to get away with it and if Jedi had been playing where KG was I don't think we would have come under as much pressure and we would have won the game. Still, overall KG played well and I was convinced that he scored at the death from that corner- 8

Moritz- The boy is quality and should play every week. Was the link between defence and forward line in the first half and played some great balls inside the full backs to Wilf and Bolasie. Should have scored with the 1 on 1 in the second half but was probably 2 yards too close to Butland to score without a bit of luck- 8

Bolasie- What a signing Yannick has been. Our biggest threat right now without a shadow of a doubt. Constant trickery causing havoc against a slow Birmingham back line. Has carried on his superb form from recent weeks and I really hope he can keep it up. Has built a very good partnership with Ward too- 9

Zaha- Now, I am going to speak more from the perspective of someone who has played sport at an international level and with some of the best players in the world rather than a Palace fan. Since Wilf has got his England cap there is no two ways about the fact that he is nowhere near the player he was up until the Peterborough game. Has he lost some confidence or some focus? Well to feel confident you must be focused on your game and for me Wilf has lost focus- in the past two games he has been caught offside nine times by my calculation which, for an international footballer, is quite frankly unacceptable as this is so basic it's untrue. Basic bits of skill no longer seem to come off, for someone of his incredible technical ability he loses possession far too often (and was punished for it today with their first goal, the desire to beat a man doesn't seem to be what it once was and at times his speed of thought isn't as quick as it could be. Wilf doesn't track back as much as he used to either. As far as I am concerned all the hooha has got to his head- say what you want as I said I'm speaking from a high level sportsman's perspective rather than a Palace fan. It's not that he doesn't want to be here I don't think it's just that he has forgotten what has got him there in the first place. The sooner January comes and goes the better as far as I'm concerned. What must be remembered however is that he is an extremely young man who has been thrown into the spotlight very, very quickly so dealing with all the extra things is something that he is inexperienced at and doing and therefore not very good at either. And with the media crazy world football now encompasses learning how to do this a key skill for any top player so I would like to think that with time Zaha will get his head sorted and will be back to looking like the best player we have ever produced. From a football perspective it was a poor game from him and he was rather ineffective. If this game had been played 2 months ago we would have scored 4/5 because Zaha would have penetrated more. Laid the ball off too late to Mortiz in my opinion too. What also has to be remembered is that he is the first name on team sheet and has nobody to challenge him and for me having being in that situation aged 20 isn't healthy. We need a few more wide players in the squad come January to give Zaha a push. I love the guy but he really needs to take a deep breath and get back to focusing on his game in my opinion (cue slaughter from the people who put 5000 posts a year on here, have nothing but CPFC in their lives, have never played sport at a high level and still think that we should have Tom Soares back). 6

Murray- Took his first goal really well and was in the right place at the right time yet again for his 2nd. As close to a complete centre forward as we have had at the club since Chris Armstrong. To get 20 goals before Christmas is nothing short of astonishing- MOM. 9.5.

Subs-

Gabbidon- Looks to me like he came on to play as a 3rd CB to allow either Ramage or Delaney to man mark Zigic whenever Birmingham were on the break. Played some misplaced passes and looked very short of match sharpness to me but this is to be expected. A proven player at this level (and even higher) so will no doubt do a great job if asked to play a more permanant role when called upon- 6

Wilbraham- Quite like the look of Wilbraham. Big, strong with a decent touch and no doubt will be able to fit in if called upon to have a more significant role to play. Gave some good flick on's to Yannick and showed some good clever runs- just not quite mobile enough at times. A bit unfortunate that he has the best striker in the league ahead of him and will hopefully be facing more competition in January- 7

Holloway- fair play in that he tried to combat Zigic when he came on but it wasn't to be. For some reason we backed off after they scored their first goal. Can't complain at all.

Birmingham- utter shite. They have got alot of players who are at the stage of their careers where they won't be getting any better. They should take a look at Middlesborough and see what they have done to turn themselves into such a good team after being relegated whilst balancing the books in process. Trouble is that Boro have an intelligent, calculative and experienced manager in Mowbray combined with an experienced chairman and Birmingham have a big headed gobshite in Lee Clark managing them and nobody seems to know who owns them. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see them in League 1 soon.

Looking forward to beating Huddersfield on Saturday

Thoroughly enjoyed reading that, one of the best posts I have seen.
Dying to know who you are ,of course!

Mictor Voses
16-12-2012, 05:32 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that, one of the best posts I have seen.
Dying to know who you are ,of course!

Nobody special mate. Trust me!

MAX
16-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Nobody special mate. Trust me!

Well unlike many on here you have mastered the English language :)

maestro
16-12-2012, 05:42 PM
We have the 5th best Championship defence as well as the best attack in terms of goal scored. If it ain't broke don't fix it. We do need to work on snuffing out long diagonal crosses though.

Thats fair enough and its just a personal opinion but I see too many unmarked players scoring close to our goal, if you take blackpools equaliser aswell for example, both the center backs were marking space.

Im a paddy fan and hope he comes back soon.

The Gerry Queen
16-12-2012, 05:59 PM
Thats fair enough and its just a personal opinion but I see too many unmarked players scoring close to our goal, if you take blackpools equaliser aswell for example, both the center backs were marking space.

Im a paddy fan and hope he comes back soon.

I like him a lot too but he's prone to losing his man on occasions too. The main thing is to snuff out the source of the crosses as we were earlier this season. I don't know if it has anything to do with Holloway wanting Bolasie and Zaha to play further up but we do know it's cost us this season and just for the record it is Zaha who has lost possession cheaply for last week and this week's equaliser. He was lucky also against Brighton when he lost the ball to CMS nad he hit the post at 1-0. Zaha was defending like a Trojan earleir this season and at his best running at his full back from deep positions. He is getting offside too much now upfield and not putting in an effective shift defending. Maybe not his fault and I hope Holloway and Millen are going to work on it. We are still well worth second though and Zaha is probably the best young player in this league.

glaziers fan
16-12-2012, 06:02 PM
Have we lost our mojo a little?

Did u not read my review, or the others? We played very well. We are goin to steamroller teams come February. ;)

Celestial Empire
16-12-2012, 06:05 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that, one of the best posts I have seen.
Dying to know who you are ,of course!

Seconded.
The sort of post we need more of on here.

palace nutter
16-12-2012, 06:08 PM
I'm sure the defending can be better, but we have a goal keeper who does not come for the ball in these situations, I'm sure any defender would tell you that a keeper can take some pressure off the defenders by punching clear. He can't/ won't do this and the attacker will always have the advantage running in toward goal and jumping.

Don't agree with that, can't put blame on Speroni at all.

In fact he made a brilliant take from a cross about ten minutes earlier. If we're kind, ther's not much you can do about two giraffes scoring headers but in reality the marking could have been a bit better and more pressure put on them.

palace nutter
16-12-2012, 06:10 PM
We have the 5th best Championship defence as well as the best attack in terms of goal scored. If it ain't broke don't fix it. We do need to work on snuffing out long diagonal crosses though.

Crosses are certainly where most of the goals will come from against us simply due to the fact we play with wingbacks so we're likely to get caught out at least once during a game.

Deep crosses I agree, just look at Leeds where both goals came from this and certainly with Jedinak we have a better chance of getting these out but this is certainly a big area we need to aork on, as well as stopping crosses in the first place.

stamford triumph
16-12-2012, 06:31 PM
just for the record it is Zaha who has lost possession cheaply for last week and this week's equaliser.
Not yesterday - Garvan had possession - should have released Wilf but lost it, eventually went for a corner from which they scored.

delboy01
16-12-2012, 06:54 PM
I may be wrong but I think thats 4 MotM awards on the trot from the BBS for Bolasie.

Gooders
16-12-2012, 07:02 PM
The BBC stats show us as having 5 shots and only 1 on target. Yet we scored twice. I was there and it seemed we were more on top than those stats but I'm biased.



I watched the highlights last night and saw Murray score two, Bolasie have a shot saved when through on goal and Garvan have one tipped around - even if that was the sum total of our efforts that was 4 attempts on target.

SpikeyMatt
16-12-2012, 07:08 PM
Not a fan of Jules on crosses either but neither of the goals can be put at his feet.

If we had a goalkeeper coming for balls out on the penalty spot, I'd be having kittens everytime. There's being assertive but that'd be reckless.

mrgins
16-12-2012, 07:10 PM
Got back at 8pm last night, headed out at 830 and was meant to get the last train home but have only just got in!

An interesting game. Really enjoyed the first 70 minutes where I thought we were absolutely superb causing a very poor and very static Birmingham side all kinds of problems. There is no doubt we should have been more than 2-0 up with Moritz blazing over from 6 yards out and Wilf not being on form (more about that later) but these things happen.


A thorough post and a good read. Although you may have got carried away with Murrays rating! Thanks

palace nutter
16-12-2012, 07:15 PM
Surprised they didn't show Moritz's chance on the tv, he really should have scored, right idea, just took too long and dinked it too much. If you're being critical, Wilf should have put him in earlier, either way, that was a big chance.

eaglejez
16-12-2012, 07:33 PM
5cosVj5Ubvc

Pistol Knight
16-12-2012, 07:39 PM
5cosVj5Ubvc


:p

we sounded loud from their end :D

Maz
17-12-2012, 08:23 AM
:p

we sounded loud from their end :D And sounded good on the radio. Perhaps a bit quiet in the last 15.

FromSelhurst
17-12-2012, 08:37 AM
[QUOTE=glaziers fan] KG is average, and just a decent squad player - it's a blessing he's going to the African Cup.
We looked so good going forward. Dominated the first half.

Our midfield in Jan should be (without any doubt):

-----------Jedinak---------
----Williams----Moritz

QUOTE]

harsh on KG, he has been far better than average.

2 more defensive midfielders have given the wingers and number 10 more freedom it would be foolish to change this formation.

Eye-dee
17-12-2012, 08:50 AM
Perhaps a bit quiet in the last 15.

I missed our drum :(

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 09:28 AM
[QUOTE=glaziers fan] KG is average, and just a decent squad player - it's a blessing he's going to the African Cup.
We looked so good going forward. Dominated the first half.

Our midfield in Jan should be (without any doubt):

-----------Jedinak---------
----Williams----Moritz

QUOTE]

harsh on KG, he has been far better than average.

2 more defensive midfielders have given the wingers and number 10 more freedom it would be foolish to change this formation.

He's done a job, and scored some important goals. But alongside the mighty Jedinak, Williams could do the box-to-box stuff whilst KG is away.

I don't want to see Garvan start another match when Jonny is fit. Moritz is so much better in all areas, and OG is a passenger not a driver.

We need to be brave, and go for the jugular.

Maz
17-12-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't want to see Garvan start another match when Jonny is fit. Moritz is so much better in all areas, and OG is a passenger not a driver.
.this will be the same 'passenger' who is our joint second highest league goal scorer?

Numbskull.

Chris K
17-12-2012, 09:49 AM
I was in row 5 so couldn't really make out how we were playing as I'm not used to being that low down. We did seem to have much the better of the first 70 mins and Moritz should have killed the game.

Don't think Birmingham made any noise at all until the 70th minute, absolutely dire

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 10:05 AM
for the first time in ages you could see that we lacked leadership

Garvan- all in all I felt the game passed him by. Gave the ball away thatsometimes I feel like he is a bit of a passenger- 7

KG- At times we were caught on the break today and were lucky to get away with it and if Jedi had been playing where KG was I don't think we would have come under as much pressure and we would have won the game. Still, overall KG played well 8

Moritz- The boy is quality and should play every week. Was the link between defence and forward line in the first half and played some great balls inside the full backs to Wilf and Bolasie.

It's interesting that you say we were caught on the break, and that we lacked leadership and yet KG gets an 8 playing the defensive mid position. To me KG is an average Championship player. Normally a 6 or 7. No more, no less.

Also, Garvan has got a 7 even though you rightly pointed out he was a passenger and the game passed him by. The problem is, for all his undoubted quality, it normally does.

Even though we were undone aerially, which is an anomaly, our major weakness has not been the defence, keeper, defensive mid, wingers or striker. The problem has been the centre mid. We're getting outfought there, and getting over-run for vast periods of the game. When the ball gets into our final third we're not bad. And going forward out wide we're pacy and exciting. But from the edge of our area to the edge of their penalty area through the middle we are losing EVERY TIME. It has to change if we're to maintain our position.

I think you're right that Moritz has to start because he looks the part, and his running and passing is dangerous, and he is connecting things. He's a proper "in-the-hole" player. And obviously Jedinak has to start. But we need more energy alongside him. KG will start until Jan, but I've now come to the conclusion that it CANNOT be Garvan alongside when KG goes. It has to be O'Keefe if Williams is not fit.

thehalifaxman
17-12-2012, 10:22 AM
Where is the didn't go option :(

Owngoal
17-12-2012, 10:33 AM
It's interesting that you say we were caught on the break, and that we lacked leadership and yet KG gets an 8 playing the defensive mid position. To me KG is an average Championship player. Normally a 6 or 7. No more, no less.

Also, Garvan has got a 7 even though you rightly pointed out he was a passenger and the game passed him by. The problem is, for all his undoubted quality, it normally does.

Even though we were undone aerially, which is an anomaly, our major weakness has not been the defence, keeper, defensive mid, wingers or striker. The problem has been the centre mid. We're getting outfought there, and getting over-run for vast periods of the game. When the ball gets into our final third we're not bad. And going forward out wide we're pacy and exciting. But from the edge of our area to the edge of their penalty area through the middle we are losing EVERY TIME. It has to change if we're to maintain our position.

I think you're right that Moritz has to start because he looks the part, and his running and passing is dangerous, and he is connecting things. He's a proper "in-the-hole" player. And obviously Jedinak has to start. But we need more energy alongside him. KG will start until Jan, but I've now come to the conclusion that it CANNOT be Garvan alongside when KG goes. It has to be O'Keefe if Williams is not fit.


So is it back to the GF hates Garvan stance even though he has created many of our goals and missed chances?

Interesting bit in Birmingham Mail about the stone cold pen to Brum

Peter Lovenkrands explained the mystery of the penalty that wasn't during Birmingham City's draw against Crystal Palace.

With Blues 2-0 down and desperately trying to find a way back into the game, Lovenkrands raced onto Marlon King's flick and appeared to be caught by Damien Delaney's outstretched leg.

There was a definite stumble by Lovenkrands, who then recovered his footing and retrieved the ball again going to the left of the penalty area.

Referee Scott Mathieson blew up and appeared to point to the spot.

Indeed, an assistant them moved to the position on the byline in readiness for the penalty.

But Mathieson booked Lovenkrands for diving - and the Danish striker revealed there had actually been no contact anyway.

"It was not a penalty," said Lovenkrands.

"I saw the guy coming in, I moved my foot out of the way and I lost my balance.

"I went down, but because the ball was there I got up again, I wasn't looking for the penalty.

"Because my balance was off, I had to go down to get up again.

"I said to the referee after the game that I wasn't looking for a penalty and he said he actually needed to apologise to me because be blew the whistle too quickly and after he had done it, he had to book me."

Maz
17-12-2012, 10:46 AM
So is it back to the GF hates Garvan stance even though he has created many of our goals and missed chances?
And has scored as many goals as Wilf and provided more assists?

Anyone who doesn't understand how much OG has achieved for us this season is wilfully blind.

kolinkins
17-12-2012, 10:51 AM
Or just an idiot worth having on ignore.

Maz
17-12-2012, 10:55 AM
Or just an idiot worth having on ignore.MAybe.

But according to the Club only Bolasie has more assists than Garvan, and only Murray has scored more league goals.

ChaceTheAce
17-12-2012, 10:58 AM
I thought Papa Boupa Diop killed our midfield and absolutely ran the show for the whole game. Thats where we missed Jedi.

Owngoal
17-12-2012, 11:08 AM
MAybe.

But according to the Club only Bolasie has more assists than Garvan, and only Murray has scored more league goals.

But for those numptys like GF Owen is not good enough. He also has done clearances off the line and at corners etc often is the one to make a clearance to one of our players. I was not at Brum but it is interesting that Moritz misses a 'sitter' and gets praise galore but if that had been owen it would have been a very different reaction. Bit like Moxey who although not as good as Parr has loads of people who think he is wonderful.

No doubt GF will apologise again if Owen has a blinder on saturday??:cool:

Gooders
17-12-2012, 11:13 AM
Thanks for posting the Birmingham Mail piece, Owngoal. :p

So the "stonewall" penalty that wasn't given - and that apparently fired Brum up enough to get a draw - wasn't a penalty at all. Rats.

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 11:15 AM
I thought Papa Boupa Diop killed our midfield and absolutely ran the show for the whole game. Thats where we missed Jedi.

Jedinak doesn't win the midfield on his own. He's outstanding at what he does, but we also need players to hassle and close the ball down if we want to dominate. KG does this. Garvan doesn't, which is why we lost the midfield when KG was switched to the MJ defensive mid role.

As an aside, Williams destroyed Bouba Diop last season. JW owned him (think it was West Ham at home).

ChaceTheAce
17-12-2012, 11:19 AM
Jedinak doesn't win the midfield on his own. He's outstanding at what he does, but we also need players to hassle and close the ball down if we want to dominate. KG does this. Garvan doesn't, which is why we lost the midfield when KG was switched to the MJ defensive mid role.

As an aside, Williams destroyed Bouba Diop last season. JW owned him (think it was West Ham at home).
Didn't say he wins midfield on his own, he's just that extra driving force. PBD on the other hand, did win it on his own.

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 11:20 AM
But for those numptys like GF Owen is not good enough. He also has done clearances off the line and at corners etc often is the one to make a clearance to one of our players. I was not at Brum but it is interesting that Moritz misses a 'sitter' and gets praise galore but if that had been owen it would have been a very different reaction. Bit like Moxey who although not as good as Parr has loads of people who think he is wonderful.

No doubt GF will apologise again if Owen has a blinder on saturday??:cool:

I still think Owen has quality, and can be involved in our goals and goal-line clearances. As I said in my review, he also provided the best 40 yard pass I've seen this season. He still deserves to be a member of the squad.

But I'm now certain in my mind that his inability to get to the man quick enough when we don't have the ball is the reason we are conceding too many. So despite his impressive stats, they don't tell the full picture.

Gilbert07
17-12-2012, 11:20 AM
KG will start until Jan, but I've now come to the conclusion that it CANNOT be Garvan alongside when KG goes. It has to be O'Keefe if Williams is not fit.

Ian Holloway:

Garvs might drop a bit deeper and that will leave a space for Andre in the team. Ive got no problems with doing that.

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 11:34 AM
this will be the same 'passenger' who is our joint second highest league goal scorer?

Numbskull.



Garvan- but all in all I felt the game passed him by... sometimes I feel like he is a bit of a passenger-



Not just me who's said it, but feel free - I'll take the flack beause I'm GF.

Ben Watson's tackling was never amazing, but he at least was able to put himself about, and close the opposition down. OG tries, but he just can't get there. And that is one of the fine lines between being a player integral to a promotion-chasing team, and a bit-part lower Championship player.

CPFC_DAVE77
17-12-2012, 11:46 AM
KG was a bigger concern on Saturday.

As for the Mortiz obsession, well, I am at a loss. Take away the fact that he is a Brazilian and on twitter and I don't udnerstand the disparity in the obsession fans have with him compared to the lack of support Garvs gets.

kolinkins
17-12-2012, 11:49 AM
Did you not see the Cardiff and Burnley games, playing close to Murray and they both got a lot out of the game

that's not to say Garvan doesn't deserve support, credit and a starting spot. But I can see why Moritz gets the love that he does.

Not many could have played the pass for Wilf for our first against Burnley or scored that goal against Peterborough

But then, like Ambrose, you need a players to not rate that others rate, so years down the line you can pat yourself on the back?

thehalifaxman
17-12-2012, 12:11 PM
Not just me who's said it, but feel free - I'll take the flack beause I'm GF.

Ben Watson's tackling was never amazing, but he at least was able to put himself about, and close the opposition down. OG tries, but he just can't get there. And that is one of the fine lines between being a player integral to a promotion-chasing team, and a bit-part lower Championship player.

I think Garvan has a had a great season and is one our most under appreciated players. I don't think we're really good enough to have a "perfect team" and must adapt to what the opposition is doing. Garvan is a good player to use against certain opposition. If we're going to chase promotion we do need a bigger squad mind. That's if the chairman want to put the money in (again!). They won't get it back if we don't go up and we'll really be stretching ourselves next season to cope with the extra wages. Its a tough one as I don't think we've been in a position like this for nearly 20 years.

Owngoal
17-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Not just me who's said it, but feel free - I'll take the flack beause I'm GF.

Ben Watson's tackling was never amazing, but he at least was able to put himself about, and close the opposition down. OG tries, but he just can't get there. And that is one of the fine lines between being a player integral to a promotion-chasing team, and a bit-part lower Championship player.


Pretensious, moi??

Derek Trotter lives and is never wrong. a fair few of us must watch different games to you as we seem to see different things? Holloways wants to sign Moritz and Garvan up

I understand Andre has only got this season and Owen is also out of contract in the summer. Im already planning for both - Im more than happy with the way they are playing for me. I know they are in contention with each other but when we lose Kagisho Dikgacoi to the African Cup of Nations in January they might both be able to slot into place.

Garvs might drop a bit deeper and that will leave a space for Andre in the team. Ive got no problems with doing that.

Penstone Eagle
17-12-2012, 12:15 PM
I thought Papa Boupa Diop killed our midfield and absolutely ran the show for the whole game. Thats where we missed Jedi.

We can't rely on one man to make the difference, but when he's missing the manager must choose the right replacement, and he didn't on Saturday.

ChaceTheAce
17-12-2012, 12:23 PM
We can't rely on one man to make the difference, but when he's missing the manager must choose the right replacement, and he didn't on Saturday.
And as mentioned previously, I didn't say lets rely on him but he was the difference and thats the truth tbh.

rhynoeagle
17-12-2012, 12:24 PM
We missed Mile's class and leadership, we'd have won otherwise IMO.

ChaceTheAce
17-12-2012, 12:27 PM
We missed Mile's class and leadership, we'd have won otherwise IMO.
This.

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 12:28 PM
Interesting to hear Holloway blaming the defeat on, amongst other things, a failure to press. He's particularly critical of the wide players, so he obviously still feels they should be tracking back, even if they are playing further up the field.

I believe that is spot on.

Gooders
17-12-2012, 12:59 PM
We lost? Shit.

Excowboy
17-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Crikey, that is a late comeback.

Nelson Muntz
17-12-2012, 01:10 PM
We lost? Shit.
The thing is though, is that it feels like a defeat.
We were in charge for long periods and made them look absolute rubbish for 70 minutes.
I was gutted that they came back into a game which to be honest they were never in.
At the end of the day it was a very disappointing result.

bourne man
17-12-2012, 03:57 PM
Did we lose against Blackpool too

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 04:00 PM
The thing is though, is that it feels like a defeat.
.

Exactly. When you are 2-0 up against a poor team, and with the class going forward that we possess on the counter, you expect that to be it.

Rather than a pedantic and flippant comment from Gooders, we could have have had an intelligent riposte to Holloway's assertion that we need to press more.

jobiinthelastmi
17-12-2012, 04:12 PM
Not sure how he's going to work the team out for the next game.

Jedinak comes straight back in but for who?

KG and Garvan had average games against Birmingham, KG seems to have gone off the boil in the past few games. Garvan was hit and miss.

Moritz looked fresh and some of his passing was very good. Should have scored though, thought the keeper saved it from what I saw....

Sceagle
17-12-2012, 04:19 PM
We missed Jedinak yes, but we don't rely on him. We should have been 3-0 up looking at the highlights. And luckily for us, not every team in the league has giant players (Zigic and Diop) to save them.

Kirby
17-12-2012, 04:41 PM
Thought Garvan did well in his more defensive role. Probably played it better than KG did!

I'd drop Moritz for Jedinak on Saturday. He seems to play better off the bench and despite some nice touches was a bit of a luxury player on Saturday.

Vince Hilaire's Afro
17-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Not sure how he's going to work the team out for the next game.

Jedinak comes straight back in but for who?

KG and Garvan had average games against Birmingham, KG seems to have gone off the boil in the past few games. Garvan was hit the crossbar a couple of times (great signing by Burley).

Moritz looked fresh and some of his passing was very good. Should have scored though, thought the keeper saved it from what I saw....
EFA

Owngoal
17-12-2012, 09:49 PM
Thought Garvan did well in his more defensive role. Probably played it better than KG did!

I'd drop Moritz for Jedinak on Saturday. He seems to play better off the bench and despite some nice touches was a bit of a luxury player on Saturday.

Although you may be right you are not allowed to say it - Moritz is Brazilian, which i assume means more than just nicely shorn pubes?

Stroud Eagle
17-12-2012, 10:20 PM
KG was a bigger concern on Saturday.

As for the Mortiz obsession, well, I am at a loss. Take away the fact that he is a Brazilian and on twitter and I don't udnerstand the disparity in the obsession fans have with him compared to the lack of support Garvs gets.

They are both very good players.Nobody should be having a go at either of them.But Moritz is total quality and hopefully we will get to see more of him if he signs a new contract.Killer pass is the extra quality he has.

selhurst cookie
17-12-2012, 10:33 PM
Zigic made all the difference, we played great, the moaning is mostly unjustified. We dominated until he came on, they got a freak comeback from a freak of a man. Garvan and Moritz played well, Moritz was slightly more involved and some of his passing is ridiculous. Garvan lost the ball for their corner which they scored from, there were 2 men on him in our half, instead of him getting it out, he turned back, lost the ball and they won a corner. At the comer, we were far to focused on Zigic and Boupa-Diop, who imo had been fairly average all afternoon headed the equaliser in.

Chill out everyone, we were great but couldn't deal with Zigic.

BBK
17-12-2012, 10:40 PM
I thought Garvan was bad against Birmingham, made a couple of lovely passes but got caught in possession too often and made quite a few sloppy passes.

JHJ EAGLE
17-12-2012, 10:45 PM
GF talking shite again shocker

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 10:55 PM
GF talking shite again shocker

Really, were you there? If you actually read the thread you'll see that those who actually went agree with me.

I forgot to say, btw, that I thought the Gabbidon sub was completely stupid. I can understand why Holloway did it, but you don't bring on a 5'10" defender to deal with a 6'7" man mountain. We'd have been better off bringing on O'Keefe so we could press the opposition more urgently to stop the balls going in.

Holloway spotted the danger. He just didn't come up with the best solution available to him. Even though it's 2 points lost, we should be grateful for Clark's lack of managerial nous. If Zigic had started we would have lost.

glaziers fan
17-12-2012, 10:56 PM
Although you may be right you are not allowed to say it - Moritz is Brazilian, which i assume means more than just nicely shorn pubes?

No, he is allowed to say it. He's just wrong judging by majority opinion.

Kirby
17-12-2012, 11:16 PM
No, he is allowed to say it. He's just wrong judging by majority opinion.

Or the majority are brainwashed by the fact he's Brazilian and has white boots.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's been brilliant so far, but he didn't have his greatest game on Saturday. I thought Garvan did more for the team and worked hard in an unfamiliar position.

In an ideal world I'd play both, but KG and Jedi have to start in central midfield. Garvan gets the nod behind the front three for me. His recent performances in that position have been brilliant.

For the record, I thought he was poor last season, so I'm not remotely biased towards OG. I just think he's been given a very hard time despite contributing a hell of a lot.

Pub Idol
18-12-2012, 04:19 PM
Really, were you there? If you actually read the thread you'll see that those who actually went agree with me.

I forgot to say, btw, that I thought the Gabbidon sub was completely stupid. I can understand why Holloway did it, but you don't bring on a 5'10" defender to deal with a 6'7" man mountain. We'd have been better off bringing on O'Keefe so we could press the opposition more urgently to stop the balls going in.

Holloway spotted the danger. He just didn't come up with the best solution available to him. Even though it's 2 points lost, we should be grateful for Clark's lack of managerial nous. If Zigic had started we would have lost.

Such a ******* know it all. You really are :confused:

Lenny Again
18-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Really, were you there? If you actually read the thread you'll see that those who actually went agree with me.

I forgot to say, btw, that I thought the Gabbidon sub was completely stupid. I can understand why Holloway did it, but you don't bring on a 5'10" defender to deal with a 6'7" man mountain. We'd have been better off bringing on O'Keefe so we could press the opposition more urgently to stop the balls going in.

Holloway spotted the danger. He just didn't come up with the best solution available to him. Even though it's 2 points lost, we should be grateful for Clark's lack of managerial nous. If Zigic had started we would have lost.

The perfect substitutions are easy to make after the game aren't they? Funny that.

glaziers fan
18-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Or the majority are brainwashed by the fact he's Brazilian and has white boots.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's been brilliant so far, but he didn't have his greatest game on Saturday. I thought Garvan did more for the team and worked hard in an unfamiliar position.

In an ideal world I'd play both, but KG and Jedi have to start in central midfield. Garvan gets the nod behind the front three for me. His recent performances in that position have been brilliant.

For the record, I thought he was poor last season, so I'm not remotely biased towards OG. I just think he's been given a very hard time despite contributing a hell of a lot.

Fair enough response. I actually think the opposite! I thought OG was better last season (in open play) at stringing passes together. It's just this season he's scored 2 pens, and improved aerially. But in open play I don't think I've seen OG have more than a good 30 mins for us. His crossing has been very good, but his general bread-and-butter passing has been below his usual standard. He is the best passer at the club, so I expect more.

As for Moritz, I'm struggling to think of a player we've had in recent times who is strong, can run with the ball and thread through passes from a central position (apart from Williams). He's better than Kirovski. He's a very clever player, and although 80% of what he tried didn't come off for him against Birmingham I felt he showed the most potential of any game he's played for us. That's because he was involved for the entire time he was on the pitch, and won headers, worked hard, and was strong. I think he needs a run in the team to really show his true quality. It's definitely not because he's Brazilian that I rate him. His touch is incredible - best I've seen since Lombardo.

glaziers fan
18-12-2012, 05:06 PM
The perfect substitutions are easy to make after the game aren't they? Funny that.

I said it at the time to my mate. I just was reminded of it when IH said that we needed to press more. Gabbidon was not up to that job, or the job of marking Zigic so he was a complete waste of time.