PDA

View Full Version : Have We Finally Been Sussed Out?


Scrumpy
29-12-2012, 10:38 PM
Is it me or has our unique attack from two quick wingers been fairly redundant the last few games? Forgive me of I'm wrong but IMHO it seems if teams are finally sussing Zaha/Bolasie

racehorse-80s
29-12-2012, 10:41 PM
No it's the other end that's causing the problems by not defending right upto to the final whistle

917L
29-12-2012, 10:43 PM
Is it me or has our unique attack from two quick wingers been fairly redundant the last few games? Forgive me of I'm wrong but IMHO it seems if teams are finally sussing Zaha/Bolasie

Still scoring regularly, so no

Ridcully
29-12-2012, 10:45 PM
The conditions aren't helping, yep it's the same for everyone but running with the ball like we were on pitches like today's is nigh on impossible. As it brightens up our play will improve again.

Dave
29-12-2012, 10:48 PM
Is it me or has our unique attack from two quick wingers been fairly redundant the last few games? Forgive me of I'm wrong but IMHO it seems if teams are finally sussing Zaha/Bolasie
No

bradpitt
29-12-2012, 11:12 PM
It's our dubious defence that's being sussed out

addopalace
29-12-2012, 11:52 PM
Yes: play with urgency and you'll get something.

JamTheEagle
29-12-2012, 11:53 PM
The conditions aren't helping, yep it's the same for everyone but running with the ball like we were on pitches like today's is nigh on impossible. As it brightens up our play will improve again.

Roll on 2014 then? :D

Lambeth Palace
30-12-2012, 12:02 AM
They've sussed us out by letting us score goals?

Sceagle
30-12-2012, 12:47 AM
If by sussed out you mean Zaha hasn't been playing as well as he was then yes, we have been.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:03 AM
We've lost the sharp passing and ball retention that allowed us to build attacks and of course reduced the posession of the opposition. We've returned to giving the ball away too easily and inviting teams to attack us and as a result more corners and free kicks are coming into our box. We were shown and earnt the respect by other teams for our attacking strengths, but gradually teams have learnt that we buckle under pressure and drop too deep and rely on counter attacking, we are good at it but the fact is we need at least 2 goals a game to get anything. We've returned to the panic clearances with the ball coming straight back at us, our back four is not the best in the division and needs the midfield to relieve the pressure. Any opposition manager with any knowledge at all will know our weaknesses and quite simply will bombard our penalty area, as for our strengths, they'll set up to deal with counter attacking.

GreatGonzo
30-12-2012, 09:07 AM
Zaha has gone massively off the boil and seems he wants out now, and that has had a big effect on our season. We need to sell in January now if we hope to go up this year because at times we are almost playing with 10 men.

That will allow us to strengthen our bench as when we have a few injuries like at present the players on the bench are not good enough. We lose late goals because the starters are getting tired and their replacements are just not good enough IMO.

Look at the players who were on the pitch at the end of Forest, no recognisable winger, 4 centre mids and a league 1 striker at best. Is it a surprise we concede late?

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:13 AM
Zaha has gone massively off the boil and seems he wants out now, and that has had a big effect on our season. We need to sell in January now if we hope to go up this year because at times we are almost playing with 10 men.

That will allow us to strengthen our bench as when we have a few injuries like at present the players on the bench are not good enough. We lose late goals because the starters are getting tired and their replacements are just not good enough IMO.

Look at the players who were on the pitch at the end of Forest, no recognisable winger, 4 centre mids and a league 1 striker at best. Is it a surprise we concede late?


Agreed, sell him and do some business early, I understand why it's done, but the usual scratching around at the end of the transfer window will not be sufficient if we want promotion.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:14 AM
Yes: play with urgency and you'll get something.


Agreed, and start with that urgency.

st albans
30-12-2012, 09:18 AM
I think we need to give a team a goal start. Seemed to work well earlier in the season

immoralgiant
30-12-2012, 09:26 AM
We've lost the sharp passing and ball retention that allowed us to build attacks and of course reduced the posession of the opposition. We've returned to giving the ball away too easily and inviting teams to attack us and as a result more corners and free kicks are coming into our box. We were shown and earnt the respect by other teams for our attacking strengths, but gradually teams have learnt that we buckle under pressure and drop too deep and rely on counter attacking, we are good at it but the fact is we need at least 2 goals a game to get anything. We've returned to the panic clearances with the ball coming straight back at us, our back four is not the best in the division and needs the midfield to relieve the pressure. Any opposition manager with any knowledge at all will know our weaknesses and quite simply will bombard our penalty area, as for our strengths, they'll set up to deal with counter attacking.
This.

The defence hasn't changed, they are the same as they have been since Delaney came in, the difference is the opposition is getting more possession now which is resulting in more defending where as before we were passing it around.

I think Millwall were the first team to really pressure us and see it work.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:28 AM
I think we need to give a team a goal start. Seemed to work well earlier in the season


It did didn't it, wakes us up and changes the approach of the other team who then tend to conserve their lead thus allowing us to play the game we looked best at.

Les Butler
30-12-2012, 09:32 AM
Not sussed out as we are still getting bucket loads of chances but missing them, getting that 2nd goal then holding on to it is the prob.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:39 AM
Not sussed out as we are still getting bucket loads of chances but missing them, getting that 2nd goal then holding on to it is the prob.


3rd goal I think

glaziers fan
30-12-2012, 09:42 AM
It's our centre mid that's been sussed, and we are over-run there now. That might change if Williams plays there though ;)

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:45 AM
Taken form IH's post match press conference

the lads are getting used to the way I want them to play and if we keep playing like we did for long periods of this game we will do very well.

And there lies the reason, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'

Les Butler
30-12-2012, 09:50 AM
3rd goal I think

With Palace I would need 6 to feel comfortable ....;)

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 09:54 AM
With Palace I would need 6 to feel comfortable ....;)


What about the 2nd half though ? :D

MrBling
30-12-2012, 10:01 AM
I think its widely recognised that we have two pacy wingers and we definitely spent a lot of time yesterday looking at the wings to create, but as Holloway as pointed out before that frees up Murray to cause havoc in the middle which is exactly what he did yesterday. Where it went slightly wrong yesterday is that we played against a back four who were clever and shared out the inevitable yellow cards they were going to attract for continually pushing, niggling etc How Murray stayed calm yesterday I don't know, he spent most of the game with the extra weight of Cohen on his shoulder as Cohen crawled all over him. Also, how on earth Harding stayed on the pitch as he ploughed into the back of Parr when Parr was waiting for the ball boy to chuck the ball back for a throw in I don't know. I had a Man Utd supporting mate with me yesterday and he was raving about Zaha and Bolasie, thought they were immense and Zaha definitely had Harding in his pocket for most of the second half
The problem we had yesterday was two fold, not defending as a team and the officials. Why we pushed for a third goal when we hadn't got a win in so many games I don't know, their second equaliser came from a break away with most of the team in their half three minutes into stoppage time!!!
The officials were dire yesterday, not biased, dire. Where on earth they got five mins of stoppage time I'll never know, and that definitely lifted the home fans and Forest as they realised they suddenly had a chance to snatch something. The match was so stop start due to non stop pushing, niggle tackles etc and the ref was one of those fussy ones, make sure the throw ins are taken from the correct place but turn a blind eye to the non stop shirt pulling. And I can't stand line'os that constantly look to the referee before giving a decision.
Overall yesterday was disappointing, we could and should have taken all three points but this is a team who need a break, our strength in depth is starting to show and with a little bit of strenghtening in the transfer window, I still think promotion is in our hands.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Fed up with people blaming officials, we need to deal with any injustices and defend better playing the football we were pre IH, what if the ref had given what was a goal kick instead of the corner that led to the first goal against Brighton, we might not have won !

IH has changed the way we played and has admitted that in his press conference, that is the problem.

eaglejez
30-12-2012, 10:35 AM
I would say its more the midfield. KG and Jedi were winning everything which allowed Garvan/Moritz to knock it around. This doesn't seem to be working as well IMMO

FromSelhurst
30-12-2012, 10:43 AM
when we have needed to freshen things up we haven't been able to and there is a lack of competition for places apart from the no 10 role which unfortunately due to injury williams hasn't been able to fully nail down yet.

Sceagle
30-12-2012, 12:29 PM
Taken form IH's post match press conference

the lads are getting used to the way I want them to play and if we keep playing like we did for long periods of this game we will do very well.

And there lies the reason, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'
It became broke though.

BBK
30-12-2012, 01:08 PM
I'm looking forward to the return of Williams, I pray he can stay injury free.

Celestial Empire
30-12-2012, 01:34 PM
Let's face it, there are managers in this league who are smart enough to "suss us out" (Bruce, maybe Jacket), but most of them are far from being "master tacticians" :rolleyes: .
And Forest were essentially managerless yesterday.

Penstone Eagle
30-12-2012, 02:33 PM
It became broke though.


No it didn't, carried on after DF left and then IH started putting his mark on things. Difficult for a new manager to just let things continue I know, but I wished he'd recognised that all that was needed was to identify players to bring in to strengthen what we had going.

jobiinthelastmi
30-12-2012, 02:53 PM
No it didn't, carried on after DF left and then IH started putting his mark on things. Difficult for a new manager to just let things continue I know, but I wished he'd recognised that all that was needed was to identify players to bring in to strengthen what we had going.

the only way was down from where we were, we scored loads when Holloway first came in.

Don't forget we've had a massive amount of penalties this season which helped. We are paying for it now, we have a little bit of an unlucky run.

On another day those two shots yesterday hit the post and go out for a goal kick.

Robson
30-12-2012, 02:54 PM
I would say its more the midfield. KG and Jedi were winning everything which allowed Garvan/Moritz to knock it around. This doesn't seem to be working as well IMMO

This.

During the Sep-Nov glory days we were also pressing high up the pitch (the Blackburn home game being the best example), so that even if we lost the ball it was only on halfway and not an immediate danger.

Perhaps with a reduction in confidence, we have slowly got deeper and deeper, more like how we were last season.

SmithyEagle
30-12-2012, 02:59 PM
I think one of the main differences is the lack of change and rotation. Under DF we'd always have different squads - I'm not sure if there were two games with the same starting eleven - whereas under Holloway it is essentially the same.
I'm not complaining or anything, just putting across my opinion on it.

Robson
30-12-2012, 03:00 PM
I should also note that it's easier to defend higher up the pitch when you have the majority of possession, and with ball to feet.

The problem with Holloway's idea of "getting it forward quicker" is that we lose possession more easily, thus conceding the midfield. It doesn't matter how good the central midfield players are if they're being by-passed every time.

Del Fenner
30-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Is it me or has our unique attack from two quick wingers been fairly redundant the last few games? Forgive me of I'm wrong but IMHO it seems if teams are finally sussing Zaha/Bolasie
If by "sussing" you mean "putting 3 men on Wilf and allowing Bolasie and Murray to run rampant" then long may it continue. :lux:

Simple&Stupid
31-12-2012, 12:42 AM
We've just finished an incredibly tough sequence of games in a short space of time. We have a very small squad, 12 or 13 players to choose from practically. There aren't really many rotation options available to IH currently. And yet, we're still 4th. Dominated the leaders for 45 minutes on their own ground. Very unfortunate to draw against a team knocking on the play-offs door.
A win on New Year's Day, key players rested (hopefully) against Stoke, some fresh faces in the transfer window and some less stressful games to come and we will be top two come the end of the season.

Penstone Eagle
31-12-2012, 08:02 AM
the only way was down from where we were, we scored loads when Holloway first came in.

Don't forget we've had a massive amount of penalties this season which helped. We are paying for it now, we have a little bit of an unlucky run.

On another day those two shots yesterday hit the post and go out for a goal kick.


Don't forget the one that did hit the post from Sharp and didn't go in :p

Penstone Eagle
31-12-2012, 08:06 AM
I should also note that it's easier to defend higher up the pitch when you have the majority of possession, and with ball to feet.

The problem with Holloway's idea of "getting it forward quicker" is that we lose possession more easily, thus conceding the midfield. It doesn't matter how good the central midfield players are if they're being by-passed every time.

Yep, he's changed things and therefore we lose the ball, it comes back at us, we concede, just like last season and the one before.

Players like Moritz will and have already suffered because of this.

IH has given the impetous to the opposition, before he came we took the ball to them and kept it !

You can't rely on counter attacking for every game, some of the lovely football that was seeing success and entertaining fans has slipped away.

JDawg
31-12-2012, 09:58 AM
Its all sorts of everything. Post Ipswich IH singled out Ramage, Delaney and Jedinak for praise because it was this bedrock from which the attacking options were built. We've now gone leaky and Jules is becoming our playmaker again.

I think that the midfield is being by-passed more often and Wilf gets triple-teamed so drifts in and out of games. We aren't building attacks from the back as we were.

mickiet09
31-12-2012, 10:22 AM
Yep, he's changed things and therefore we lose the ball, it comes back at us, we concede, just like last season and the one before.

Players like Moritz will and have already suffered because of this.

IH has given the impetous to the opposition, before he came we took the ball to them and kept it !

You can't rely on counter attacking for every game, some of the lovely football that was seeing success and entertaining fans has slipped away.
Unfortunately this is exactly how I see it too.

Penstone Eagle
31-12-2012, 10:37 AM
Its all sorts of everything. Post Ipswich IH singled out Ramage, Delaney and Jedinak for praise because it was this bedrock from which the attacking options were built. We've now gone leaky and Jules is becoming our playmaker again.

I think that the midfield is being by-passed more often and Wilf gets triple-teamed so drifts in and out of games. We aren't building attacks from the back as we were.


Agreed, shame isn't it

New LP
31-12-2012, 01:20 PM
It's our dubious defence that's being sussed out

Exactly this, we are still scoring goals and causing teams problems going forward.

Penstone Eagle
31-12-2012, 01:40 PM
Exactly this, we are still scoring goals and causing teams problems going forward.


If you invite too much pressure you will let goals in, regardless of how good the defence is, posession leading to attack is the best form of defence, we are doing less of that now.

jobiinthelastmi
31-12-2012, 01:42 PM
If you invite too much pressure you will let goals in, regardless of how good the defence is, posession leading to attack is the best form of defence, we are doing less of that now.

It's because our confidence is ebbing away slowly.

hdeagle
31-12-2012, 01:59 PM
The loss of Delaney and the improving Ward from our defence has shown that we definitely need more strength in depth to cover for suspensions and injuries.

We need to be able to cope better when under pressure and show more composure when we get the ball.

Sleeping Giant
31-12-2012, 03:12 PM
[QUOTE=hdeagle]The loss of Delaney and the improving Ward from our defence has shown that we definitely need more strength in depth [QUOTE]

Massive factor coupled with Zaha not trying as hard (I can understand a loss of confidence and frustration but not giving it everything is a joke). Also, for me KG coasts too much. Doesn't boss, reactive (slowly) not proactive. Gives away tame half arsed tackle attempt free kicks on the edge of the box too.
Can't blame IH too much for the defensive frailty, will be fascinated to see what he does in the window to solidify us and get us back on track.

CP Satellite
31-12-2012, 03:23 PM
Oh yes, we've been sussed alright. Two defeats since August.

Penstone Eagle
31-12-2012, 03:55 PM
It's because our confidence is ebbing away slowly.


It's because we are trying to get the ball forward quicker, the way IH wants it.

Heb 7:4
31-12-2012, 03:56 PM
Oh yes, we've been sussed alright. Two defeats since August.
:lux:

LDNEAGLE
31-12-2012, 04:01 PM
Oh yes, we've been sussed alright. Two defeats since August.

Repped

Sleeping Giant
31-12-2012, 04:56 PM
Oh yes, we've been sussed alright. Two defeats since August.

Another gem from the Trevor Francis school of football management. It's been 3 points for a win for about 30 years. Now that it is, you can go unbeaten all season AND GET RELEGATED!

Norwoodguy
31-12-2012, 05:12 PM
The fact we have scored in all but one game makes me think we are still pretty tough to play against.

2nd half of season will be so interesting. Oddly optimistic for 2013 and CPFC

foxinthebox
31-12-2012, 05:19 PM
unique attack with two wingers??

Kent-eagle
31-12-2012, 05:28 PM
Yes: play with urgency and you'll get something.
Absolutely. Fast out of the blocks and keep it going. As in any sport, momentum is everything and very hard to stop, like the proverbial snowball.

Malarkey
31-12-2012, 05:28 PM
Oh yes, we've been sussed alright. Two defeats since August.
relegation form

nomad
31-12-2012, 06:59 PM
Exactly this, we are still scoring goals and causing teams problems going forward.
I seem to remember Blackpool fans saying that IH wasa great manager but he doesn't do defence. About time he started imo as the defence is a shambles.