View Full Version : Why bother ?
Mat ov CPFC
13-10-2000, 01:26 PM
What is it with you lot and Charlton fans ? Why go to all the trouble of letting them wind you up ?
Talking to a 'new' Charlton fan this week I asked her why Charlton had suddenly developed a dislike of us. She then replied that it was because of Ron Noades ripping them off over the ground share deal. It came as some what of a shock to her when I explained that Uncle Ron aint excatly flavour of the week with us lot either ( and never has been ) and that we still sing charming songs about his Mother and her prefered method of income generation every week. So lay off them.
The fact is that for a club with limited potential they are doing, for the moment, extremely well and we should be patting them on the back. Its good to see that in these days of the football PLC that small clubs like Charlton can still reach the premiership. What makes me so mad is that we, a club with VAST potential, are languishing where we are. That is the question that needs addressing, not a debate about how Charlton fans prefer to eat Hedgehog.
And do I think Charlton can stay up ? No. Perhaps when I read about them being slagged off by other Premiership managers in the same way that Leciester City are/where then will I give them any chance but whilst they are being continually lablelled 'Plucky' then I think they are heading straight back down again. Truth is that to survive with the big boys you need to get nasty and dirty and Charlton seem too set on making friends with other clubs rather than getting stuck into the Premiership prima-donnas.
Gooders
13-10-2000, 01:38 PM
It's difficult not to let them wind you up Matov.
The annoying thing is how they've all crawled out of the woodwork in the last year or so - the phrase "where were you when you were ****?" springs to mind.
Coming out with utter b0llocks like "we'll never play you again" is also foolhardy.
If Palace were having the kind of success that Charlton are at the moment, the last thing I would thinking of doing is signing on to other clubs bulletin boards and giving it the large one. With clubs like Palace and Charlton, pride always comes before a fall.
I also get extremely wound up about the "who's the biggest club?" debate. It is no contest.
I did a little test in Milan and Amsterdam recently. Having got on to the subject of football with the locals I was working with, I mentioned that Palace were my team and they immediately knew who I was talking about (even if they had smiles on their faces) - whereas when I asked them if they'd heard of Charlton, all they could come up with was "yes, isn't he that old bloke with a comb-over who played for Man Utd and England?"
Mat ov CPFC
13-10-2000, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Gooders:
I also get extremely wound up about the "who's the biggest club?" debate. It is no contest.
I did a little test in Milan and Amsterdam recently. Having got on to the subject of football with the locals I was working with, I mentioned that Palace were my team and they immediately knew who I was talking about (even if they had smiles on their faces) - whereas when I asked them if they'd heard of Charlton, all they could come up with was "yes, isn't he that old bloke with a comb-over who played for Man Utd and England?"
Have to say that I find the claims of Charlton fans quite amusing. It reminds me of when a small child is given their first pair of long trousers and they strut around pretending to be an adult. Would you let that Child wind you up, would you hurl abuse at them ? No, you would pat them on the head and tell them how grown up they look. Same with Charlton. Let them enjoy their moment.
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC:
What makes me so mad is that we, a club with VAST potential, are languishing where we are.
Potential counts for nothing Matt. Wolves have massive potential, so have clubs Carlisle and Hull. Doesn't mean that they will ever realise their potential.
Some of you lot are like Millwall fans in a way. Not the throwing spanners way, but having inflated illusions of grandeur about your respective clubs.
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC:
I asked her why Charlton had suddenly developed a dislike of us.
For me it's a lot more than the time we spent at Selhurst. Charlton supporters have never liked anything to do with Palace - not as long as I can remember anyway. So for you to say that "Charlton had suddenly developed a dislike of us" is wrong, it has always been there. The move to groundshare at Palace and the subsequent attempts to "fleece" Charlton only helped to stoke the flames.
Apart from the fact that your club is local to Charlton (we all like to put one over on the clubs that our friends support - don't we ?) the one thing that puts Palace fans apart from other clubs fans is the inflated ego's they have about their club. It really is laughable. For you Mat ov, to use the terms "limited" & "VAST" in comparisson of our two clubs, proves my point and shows how blinkered your views are, much the same as most of the sad & deluded Palace fans that continue with the "we are sooooooooooo much bigger than Charlton, that it doesn't matter how much better they are than us" (except Anti - who at least admits that it's important to aspire to your better neighbours). I am not saying Charlton have any greater potential than Palace, but I am knowledgeable enough to know that we have a huge advantage in maintaining our current position as THE PREMIER CLUB IN SOUTH LONDON.
If you are a real fan Mat ov and I guess that you are, then I know that it really DOES MATTER - you are not trying to tell me that Palace fans are pleased that they are living in the shadows of their more illustrious neighbours ????
bucketbongeagle
13-10-2000, 02:12 PM
should be patting them on the back
blimey and I suppose we should be thanking them for hovering over us like vultures last season, trying to pick off the remainder of our squad for next to nothing. What the hell, while were at it good luck to Millwall this year, really hope they manage to get the promotion they deserve.
and I thought I smoked too much.......
20ac
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC:
Have to say that I find the claims of Charlton fans quite amusing. It reminds me of when a small child is given their first pair of long trousers and they strut around pretending to be an adult. Would you let that Child wind you up, would you hurl abuse at them ? No, you would pat them on the head and tell them how grown up they look. Same with Charlton. Let them enjoy their moment.
Mat ov, I hear that your are going to be a Father yourself soon. Congratulations and I hope everything goes well for you and your spouse.
You will have to learn pretty quickly that you can't lie to your children though. Just imagine you telling little Nigel that he is much bigger that a boy twice his size - he won't thank his Daddy when he comes home with a fat lip and two black eyes will he. You could tell him that his 5p pocket money will buy him more sweets than his friends who have pounds to spend, but again he will lose all his respect for the Father that can not face up to reality.
For your own sake Mat, take a good look in the mirror and wake up to what is really going on around you. You can delude yourself, but is it really fair to cloud the minds of others ???
Gooders
13-10-2000, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Coke Addick:
Some of you lot are like Millwall fans in a way. Not the throwing spanners way, but having inflated illusions of grandeur about your respective clubs.
Whereas Charlton fans, of course, are the epitome of humility.
My sides hurt.
Mat Ov... forgive my prying nature but exactly how old are you ? Did you dad write this message for you, only the manner in which it is written is very adult but the points it lists are very childish. You liken Charlton to a child sporting his first pair of trousers then do you ? Is that the same comparrison to Chelsea, Leeds, Leicester, Newcastle and West Ham ? All these clubs I mention were no bigger, in terms of footballing ability than Charlton 10 years ago. Yet now they all aspire to play in Europe. Note one thing... if as we hope we will, we stay in the top flight, you will live to regret this bold statement.
The topic of this thread is why bother.. the answer is because you wish it were you ! You are jealous and find it difficult that a club that trailed you in size and footballing ability through the late 80's and early 90's is now well and truly light years ahead of your ambition, let alone your current potential. FACT.
Gooders, save the "The annoying thing is how they've all crawled out of the woodwork in the last year or so - the phrase "where were you when you were ****?" springs to mind." it bores me sh!tless.
Gooders
13-10-2000, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by SPANISH_SE7:
Is that the same comparrison to Chelsea, Leeds, Leicester, Newcastle and West Ham ? All these clubs I mention were no bigger, in terms of footballing ability than Charlton 10 years ago.
I rest my case.
Spanish - do yourself a favour - go and get laid or something; anything to rid yourself of that huge inferiority complex you have.
Freud would have had a field day!
Originally posted by SPANISH_SE7:
The topic of this thread is why bother.. the answer is because you wish it were you ! You are jealous and find it difficult that a club that trailed you in size and footballing ability through the late 80's and early 90's is now well and truly light years ahead of your ambition, let alone your current potential. FACT.
That just about concludes this thread then.
The perfect conclusion.
NEXT.
Top Eagle
13-10-2000, 05:11 PM
Mat Ov started this thread, and from what I have read he did not slag you lot off by calling you names unless you class "plucky" (which was not his words) as a slate.
No.2 like I say you always seem lately that you get annoyed by Palace fans, so why do it to yourself??
Charlton are premiership now but Palace are not minnows, we have been there before remember (i am 26 so I am not talking about decades ago) if you stay up and become successful then larging it will be the order of the day because you will then edge the south london number one spot. Until you are safe up there in your ivory tower it is probably best not to have such a seeming arrogance. As we all know these things have a habit of coming back and slapping you in the face.
Your choice.
100% Palace
13-10-2000, 05:16 PM
The only way Charlton will ever be bigger than us is because they have more letters in their name.
Adrian
13-10-2000, 05:37 PM
I'm quite amused by this thread because I've never really understood the whole slagging off thing with other clubs - other clubs simply don't matter: only Palace matters. A few points, though:
1. In the "better than" stakes, one club is only better than another if it demonstrably has superior playing staff, management, financial and organizational structure etc. In general, as these things change from year to year, one club is only better than another on a temporary basis. It has it's semi-permanent aspect, I suppose, as it's probable that Man Utd will continue to be "better" than Frimley Green almost indefinitely.......
2. In the "bigger than" stakes, measurement is less specific. Consider Man City in the second division: huge support, reasonable management (their manager turnover wasn't simply down to the calibre of the person concerned) and no administration clouds overhead. But how can a club in such a situation have continued to regard itself as "big"? What con trick was pulled such that even the media - to a man - constantly referred to them as a "big" club?
3. In the "potential" stakes, it's a question of taking what you've got, looking back at what you had - and then forward to what common sense and the evidence around you suggests you could have, and it seems to me that Palace ARE the club with the biggest potential in South London.
I've always had a soft spot for Charlton and used to enjoy my visits to the Valley. The thought always amused me that when Carlisle came to play at Charlton, the entire population of that town (c.73,000) could attend the match (capacity of the old Valley: 75,000). Millwall have normally been regarded as our South London rivals - if we bothered to "regard" them at all.
But Palace's geographical position, our recent (last 30 or so years) achievements and history and, possibly most of all, the success of the Trust, are evidence to me that when we regain ownership of Selhurst Park, any development allowing a capacity of less than 40,000 would be sheer folly.
No, I say the very best of luck to Charlton - including their talented manager - but they'll never reach the heights that - one day - Palace will.
1fbd
Top Eagle
14-10-2000, 04:39 AM
Go back to a thread previously where I stated that No.2 and Spanish were trying to "large it" over us, Spanish then tried to deny this.
Read back this thread and you will see that the over inflated opinions are not on the Palace side but on the Charlton side.
I admit that Charlton do not really mean a lot to me with regard to rivalry, and I think they never really have but hearing you 2 is starting me to hope that you get relegated (which I have already said the opposite before). In really want to see you 2 eat your words.
No.2 you went back to the ground sharing point when is was already pointed out the Noades fleeced you, not Crystal Palace. You must also remember that although you may have got a bum deal, you at least had somewhere to play, it is down to your club for letting Noades dictate his fees etc. The same way as Goldberk did, the only way to deal with Noades is to beat him in to submission (I of course do not mean with violence) as Simon Jordan has, he took Noades by the scruff of the neck and renegociated the contracts on Selhurst with regard to all the revenue earners (such as bookies/food and drink) this means that on Palace match days Palace now gets all revenue generated and he has his monthly rent only.
Palace is not to blame for your clubs management of affairs with Noades so stop crying about it, it has happened and I think your Management (old or new I dont know if they changed) should have been firmer.
It means nothing to me whether you reply with all the usual pony that you have dished out to Mat Ov or Anti, they feel that they have to stand up to comments made by yourselves about our club, you then do not seem to understand why people start chucking the abuse your way.
Do us all a favour take a leaf out of Coke's book, he seems to be a little more grown up and sees calling us "nigels" and "E-girls" a sure fire way to get the "gypo scum" and "pikie" names coming back.
I think now this thread is finished.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
It means nothing to me whether you reply with all the usual pony that you have dished out to Mat Ov or Anti, they feel that they have to stand up to comments made by yourselves about our club, you then do not seem to understand why people start chucking the abuse your way.
Top Eagle - who was the patronising GROWN UP who started this thread.
Rose tinted glases or what ????
It only starts from our side and you give it back - right
Eagle of the East
14-10-2000, 04:54 AM
I also have hoped this season that Charlton would stay up because its always good to see a smaller club do well in the top flight (and by smaller I do include teams like Palace, Bradford, Ipswich, Fulham etc)
But where does this premier arrogance come from?
When Palace were in the top flight I never used to loko down upon 1st division clubs, I still had the utmost respect for them. Some Charlton fans seem to have lost this respect.
Adrian so the answers to your points would be :
1. In the "better than" stakes, one club is only better than another if it demonstrably has superior playing staff, management, financial and organizational structure etc.
I presume you would acknowledge then that ;
-we currently have by far a superior playing side...
-our management team is established and posses a proven track record, two promotions in the last three years...
-financially, aside from the windfall gained by the premier league we currently have a considerable profit margin..
-organization, well for a club who not so long ago did not hadve a home of its' own and owed large sums of money, I would imagine that our current status proves adequately that there is no question as to our organizational capabilities...
2. bigger than, well I agree that your points about Man City, but you hardly trying to tell me you are comparable to them are you ?
3. In the "potential" stakes, it's a question of taking what you've got, looking back at what you had - and then forward to what common sense and the evidence around you suggests you could have, and it seems to me that Palace ARE the club with the biggest potential in South London.
please this is not a joke forum... Palace are rebuilding, until your foundations have been established, I hardly think you're in a position to tell me about your potential. Or are you saying that what Simon says will happen...ooh dear..remember Mark Goldberg ?
back to the drawing board Ado
Eagle of the East
14-10-2000, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by SPANISH_SE7:
-our management team is established and posses a proven track record, two promotions in the last three years...
And what happened in the other year eh Spanish?
We have been there too, we were the yoyo team of the nineties.
Charlton are just at the stage Palace were at 5 years ago.
You've got all that to look forward to.
Refering to Spanish SE7 belatedly, so you find Palace fans saying where were you when you were s**t' etc 'boring'? Are you sure the correct word shouldn't be 'awkward'? It may bore you to hear it but the fact is half your present support have come out of the closlet. Therefore when you lot give it the biggie about being a bigger club etc we rightly point out that we are always there through good AND bad. Sorry if this embaresses you, but quite honestly so it should. If you listen to most Palace fans we have that slightly defeatest resigned attitude about our teams fortunes. We know how quickly things can go wrong. We have learnt to laugh at things to some extent. Some of you Charlton fans on here sound more like Arsenal or Moan Utd glory hunters. All this we're better than you, your all losers because you don't follow a team that wins nonsense. I can't help but feel that this is because you are representitive of the 'new' Charlton fans who have no real knowledge of following 'their club' through the bad times. If it goes wrong for Charlton like it has for us many times will you still be there? Or will the shame of being associated with a team that isn't winning be too much for you and you'll defect to Chelsea or Rugby Union or something?
where were all the charlton fans when they were squating at selhurst, wimbledon have bigger attendances than they did then.
Neal k
14-10-2000, 11:48 PM
We only hate brighton, scum.
Neil MacQueen
15-10-2000, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by Neal k:
We only hate brighton, scum.
And Millwall http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif
21f0
Neil MacQueen
15-10-2000, 04:54 AM
So why do Charlton fans really think we are there rivals? Tottenham and Arsenal are closer. Or is it because you've probably never played them??
Adrian
16-10-2000, 05:35 PM
With the greatest respect, Spanish, potential doesn't necessarily require foundations to be in place. If someone with sheds of money came along and bought Croydon or Croydon Athletic, they'd only need a vision and a bit of planning permission to claim there was potential. The Croydon area clearly has "potentially" one of the largest catchment areas for miles: we don't have another League club to the south for several miles and don't suffer from the next-door club situation of Fulham/Chelsea and Millwall/Charlton. Wimbledon is a special case but their aspirations far exceed reality. Good luck to them but they'll not ever become a big club.
My argument, however poorly-put and arrogant-sounding, is that Palace WILL be regarded as a "big" club one day - sooner, rather than later, probably - because the potential IS there. Someone will get it right, even if Jordan doesn't. It's too big a prize for someone not to grab. So, no, I wouldn't compare us with City - yet.
Unfortunately, I just can't see Charlton ever achieving that level: as others on this thread have pointed out, Palace have been up and down a bit and been "there or thereabouts" for some time now. Since Charlton's previous sojourn in the top flight, much has changed: it's all new to you guys. Yes, Curbishley is a good manager and yes, the club seems to have learned something from a couple of years ago but the reality is more long-term - and my view is that you'll be back down within a year or two. Support in SE7 is difficult for the reasons mentioned above and paying customers are a large part of what a successful club is all about. Ask Moan Utd.
Oh, and "better than"? At the moment, you are, I'll give you that.
Originally posted by Adrian:
The Croydon area clearly has "potentially" one of the largest catchment areas for miles
Oh, and "better than"? At the moment, you are, I'll give you that.
Shame really that most people there support Chelsea !!!!
bucketbongeagle
16-10-2000, 06:13 PM
Come the end of the season I expect Charlton will come back down, Curbishley will join a proper Club and all these new age Charlton supporters will pack up there mobile homes and bugger off somewhere else, Fulham probably.
Originally posted by bucketbongeagle:
Come the end of the season I expect Charlton will come back down, Curbishley will join a proper Club and all these new age Charlton supporters will pack up there mobile homes and bugger off somewhere else, Fulham probably.
DREAM ON !!!!!!
We don't give a flying one about all the Palace PREDICTIONS - it's what is really happening that hurts you guys so much.
Originally posted by Adrian:
The Croydon area clearly has "potentially" one of the largest catchment areas for miles:
My argument, however poorly-put and arrogant-sounding, is that Palace WILL be regarded as a "big" club one day - sooner, rather than later, probably - because the potential IS there."
So your long term objective is to acquire more "GLORY HUNTERS" than us.
So let me get this right, when Charlton build a club because of its potential, the new fans are "GLORY HUNTERS", but what Palace are trying to do, to bridge the gap between themselves and South London's most popular club is achieving their "POTENTIAL".
Also - what's this all about ?? Quote "Unfortunately, I just can't see Charlton ever achieving that level" -
We're ALREADY a level ahead of you. We have to expand further to meet demand. You on the other hand have a stadium that you try to fill with "FREEBIES" - you can't even meet your current "POTENTIAL" let alone look to expand beyond what you can currently achieve.
Top Eagle
16-10-2000, 09:29 PM
No.2, I think Adrian put his point across well, you however seem to get uptight and then come out with the usual "we are higher than you" (For you and Spanish, that is what I describe as "larging it")
The thing to remember here is, I think you, Spanish and Coke remember the hard times at Charlton am I right?? When you were being fleeced by Noades and residing away from your real home, near to the edge of extinction. That was a few years ago now, and you are through the worst.
Now think of Palace's situation we were still in our home, near to the edge of extinction still with 15,000 plus loyal fans (of course including 10,000 season tickets) that is the difference between our clubs, I am not saying Charlton fans then were not loyal, or the long term ones now not loyal, but your gates were very poor compared to ours which are in the top ten (if not 5) of the division.
If you can achieve what you have with very little support, Palace fans are trying to say to you, imagine what we can Potentially achieve, with gates that are really 3 times what yours were going through the same sort of hard times.
You can slate Palace and show the hate of wannabe rivals but the fact is we will be back, maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but soon Palace will be back, that is why I would not think of yourselves as No.1 in South London because it is going to be so short lived you will only confuse yourselves.
I think Charlton will stay up, but on the posts of last week which 2 of you charlton fans were giving it so much, I must admit, now I am starting to wish you wont, because then I know neither of you would come on here because you would not have the balls to take back what you have already dished out.
bucketbongeagle
16-10-2000, 10:13 PM
My Club's bigger than your club so there.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
Now think of Palace's situation we were still in our home, near to the edge of extinction still with 15,000 plus loyal fans (of course including 10,000 season tickets) that is the difference between our clubs, I am not saying Charlton fans then were not loyal, or the long term ones now not loyal, but your gates were very poor compared to ours which are in the top ten (if not 5) of the division.
One major difference - We were playing at a ground nobody wanted to be at.
If you had been removed to Gillingham, then you could start comparing, how we bothed coped under bad times. Until then you have no right to compare our times in difficulty. You haven't been anywhere near to the lows that we experienced, having to play at an alien ground or two.
You may see it as bitter hatered. The fact is I just see our clubs for what they really are today and I must say that Palace will have to live in Charlton's shadow for a considerable time to come. Time will prove which one of us is right, but I have been hearing it constantly for the past four seasons as to how it is a CERTAINTY that Palace will prove to be more equiped as a club to prosper in the future. The fact is, that during those four seasons the gap has grown to a point where it may never be reversed.
20c4
Top Eagle... you talk from you heart and that is why you continually forget the facts that are pointed out. So much so, that if the impossible were to be achieved and you made the Big Time like us, then you'd probably be talking about which teams you wanted to be drawn with in the Champions League. Don't misunderstand my point though, we all talk from the heart, the only difference is we are there !
REMEMBER ONE THING....IF WE STAY UP, THE MONIES BEING TALKED ABOUT WILL MOVE US ON EVEN FURTHER !!!!
Adrian, please, save your unadultarated rubbish for Forums that we cannot contribute to. To say that Palace currently have more potential is laughable. We are in the top flight, we are giving teams a run for their money. You are sh!t and struggle to fill your ground, freebies included.
Ted Rodgers
17-10-2000, 12:13 AM
We hate charton thats why
Originally posted by Ted Rodgers:
We hate charton thats why
Oh another intelligent response...fair play though no gypo caravan slur !
Top Eagle
17-10-2000, 02:44 AM
No.2 quote...
One major difference - We were playing at a ground nobody wanted to be at.
If you had been removed to Gillingham, then you could start comparing, how we bothed coped under bad times. Until then you have no right to compare our times in difficulty. You haven't been anywhere near to the lows that we experienced, having to play at an alien ground or two.
You may see it as bitter hatered. The fact is I just see our clubs for what they really are today and I must say that Palace will have to live in Charlton's shadow for a considerable time to come. Time will prove which one of us is right, but I have been hearing it constantly for the past four seasons as to how it is a CERTAINTY that Palace will prove to be more equiped as a club to prosper in the future. The fact is, that during those four seasons the gap has grown to a point where it may never be reversed.
Top Eagle Quote...
The thing to remember here is, I think you, Spanish and Coke remember the hard times at Charlton am I right?? When you were being fleeced by Noades and residing away from your real home, near to the edge of extinction. That was a few years ago now, and you are through the worst.
Now think of Palace's situation we were still in our home, near to the edge of extinction still with 15,000 plus loyal fans (of course including 10,000 season tickets) that is the difference between our clubs, I am not saying Charlton fans then were not loyal, or the long term ones now not loyal, but your gates were very poor compared to ours which are in the top ten (if not 5) of the division.
If you can achieve what you have with very little support, Palace fans are trying to say to you, imagine what we can Potentially achieve, with gates that are really 3 times what yours were going through the same sort of hard times.
Spanish, No.2 what utter rubbish
Question, if we have not sunk as far as yourselves (No.2 quote), surely in a shorter space of time we can get back to being above a club like Charlton who has been lower than a rattlesnakes belly?? Am I stupid or is that just finanacial mathematics.
We also have not had to play away from home, hence we have retained our support, surely when we are talking about turning a club around that means more.
Your posts this time were total and utter cr@p. I really dont think I missed the point.
We have a multi millionaire's backing, a core support of 15,000 and some good younsters in the team. Why can Charlton do it and we cant, I really cant understand it we are according to you in a better position than you ever were coming out of obscurity.
Please point it out to me, I really must be thick to miss what really is so special about Charlton's managment now and why other clubs can not succeed in the same (sorry no.2 dont cry, slightly better) situation.
My theory is that you dont want us to get back, you want to call yourselves our rivals but when we become the strength that we were you are going to have take a back seat once again, and I think that really scares you.
As for No.2s comment of the gap will be too much, dream on, Man Utd and Arsenal were so far ahead of everyone else, now look Liverpool and Leeds are biting their heels, you are not that far ahead, you have a team but not a very good squad you are still fragile, a couple of injuries and you will fall like a stone back to Div 1 and then we will see just how many of your players will stay at your "huge" club this time around.
No.2/Spanish, answer this very direct question:
Why can Charlton do it and not Palace (who have alot more financial clout than you did when you turned the corner)??
I've stayed out of this largely so far because it we have been here before.
For the record, I agree with points both sides are making. I thought Adrian made good points and I can see Top Eagle's rationale way of thinking.
Top was wrong in one sense, you can't compare our plight to yours because you never lost the major player in your club, the ground. If you had moved elsewhere you might not of seen the same loyalty that you have had.
We on the other hand was a dead duck of club until 1992. What we have seen in the last 8 years is a rebuilding of an old club based on the principles of building a brand new club. Yes, every time we have increased the capacity of our ground from 8,000 our club had to undertake ventures to get new or lapsed ar5es on seats. To call these people glory boys is ludicrous though, we had the same crods in div 1 and the prem and to be honest no one really knows whether we have peaked or just how far things can go, time will tell. We clearly have the right people in place to attack the situation, and if we stay up this season, the money to carry it through. I've been going since 1984, others since 1995, no one knows whether the crowds will stay or not. I'm just grateful that I go out locally and only really see kids wearing Charlton shirts and not Man U or Arsenal.
As you say Top Eagle, i agree, you do have big potential, you do have a multi million backing and you do have good support behind you, you have a good chance of getting things right. But you had that 3 years ago and you are still at the same stage, and Wolves had that 10 years ago and haven't moved.
Football is going to change so much in this country over the next 3 years it will be unrecognisable. You haven't got very long to get it right. If we stay up this year, which i still have doubts about, you'll be playing catchup with us for the next 5. You forget that a resurgent Fulham will also be picking up extra support in South and West London along the way in the next years, yet more competition on your doorstep.
Top Eagle
17-10-2000, 03:35 AM
Coke, what can I say, bl00dy good post as per usual.
My point was not to say who was lower but to ask No.2 and Spanish as to why they think we can not get it right, even though we were not in as a bad a situation as yourselves.
I am not questioning loyalty of fans because everybody measures it in different ways. I want to know why they think that we can not get ourselves back on track, a feet which you have admirably achieved.
It baffles me.
2032
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
Coke, what can I say, bloody good post as per usual. - ditto
My point was not to say who was lower but to ask No.2 and Spanish as to why they think we can not get it right, even though we were not in as a bad a situation as yourselves.
It baffles me.
Top Eagle - you do have a chance to emulate what Charlton have achieved - as Charlton fans we are very fortunate to have witnessed such a magnificent achievment and are indebted to our remarkable Directors and club managers.
What you have to appreciate is the magnitude of this turnaround in our fortunes. Many other clubs with equal or even better potential than Charlton have tried and failed, our achievments are quiet remarkable and it is something we are right to be very proud of.
Palace do have a chance to try and make this kind of quantum leap in fortunes, but the odds are stacked heavily against you. The Charlton story of the past decade is indeed a very rare one, it will be remarkable for lightning to strike twice.
My arguments are based on the facts that the odds are deffinately stacked against such a turnaround happening at Selhurst Park.
One last point, owning our own ground was the foundation of what was achieved in SE7, it would not have happened without the Valley. Crystal Palace still do not own or control what happens to Selhurst Park. Without that base, for the wider commercial activities that are essential for a club to grow, in the proportions that we are talking about. It is my opinion that although you have the potential, it will never be realised
while you club is in this situation. It is no good you keep talking about this potential if it is never to be realised and if the past four years are anything to go by - IT NEVER WILL.
Top Eagle quotes :- "Your posts this time were total and utter cr@p. I really dont think I missed the point.
Please point it out to me, I really must be thick to miss what really is so special about Charlton's managment now and why other clubs can not succeed in the same (sorry no.2 dont cry, slightly better) situation.
My theory is that you dont want us to get back, you want to call yourselves our rivals but when we become the strength that we were you are going to have take a back seat once again, and I think that really scares you."
Grow up !!!
PLEASE SEE REPLY ABOVE !!!!
Top Eagle - I really thought you were above this kind of response.
Top Eagle
17-10-2000, 05:28 PM
Exhiled, I stand corrected!!!!!
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, I was venting my annoyance with your attitude towards my club. My wording was probably wrong, but what you were saying was pointless in my opinion, all of this you have done it and nobody else can is utter rubbish, if we dont then fair enough, but I think the chances are more weighted towards us as by your statement our situation was never as bad as yours. Our catchment area is Croydon which as I believe is the biggest town in greater london (or at least one of them) so that is something we need to tap into. Read cokes excellant post, he states that you have to use initiatives in the community which we have a large one bigger than Charltons, our chairman has a load of cash and is looking to get everything set up in a proffesional way for the players and in a way which supporters will prefer.
Selhurst will be bought back, hence the short term lease, it is 10 years and Palace earn all revenues taken at all times, we only pay RN rent.
I really hate the fact that you have to use words like "quantum leap" when you talk about the difference between our clubs. We are a division apart and at the end of the season we may not be, so it is hardly "quantum" is it.
We are 3 months out of the threat of extinction, things will not start coming together for a couple more months yet, it is too soon for honest Palace fans to doubt the club with the latest info etc, but for a rival fan to doubt not knowing what Palace are up to behind the scenes really is difficult to understand, it shows this hatred you have of probably our previous chairman which still burns in you now, why not vent your anger on Brentford, after all he is now their chairman and not ours.
I really have nothing left to say other than, if you really think that Charlton are the only team who can survive this then I guess we will have to wait and see at what Palaces future holds.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, I was venting my annoyance with your attitude towards my club.
Top Eagle - This whole thread is based on Mat ov's original post and his attitude towards my club.
I will not recognise Crystal Palace as being anything other than second best, until you have earned it.
Yes, we have done it - you haven't. FACTS plain and simple. So until you have actually acheived your POTENTIAL, please refrian from giving us your insights into the FUTURE.
This thread is all about Mat ov's statement of how he sees the CURRENT situation and it is that statement that is total CR*P.
Arguing about what might or might not happen in the future doesn't answer the original post.
UNLESS OF COURSE YOU ARE BOTHERED !!!!!!
Top Eagle
18-10-2000, 04:31 AM
No.2, I was venting my annoyance with your attitude towards my club. My wording was probably wrong, but what you were saying was pointless in my opinion, all of this you have done it and nobody else can is utter rubbish, if we dont then fair enough, but I think the chances are more weighted towards us as by your statement our situation was never as bad as yours. Our catchment area is Croydon which as I believe is the biggest town in greater london (or at least one of them) so that is something we need to tap into. Read cokes excellant post, he states that you have to use initiatives in the community which we have a large one bigger than Charltons, our chairman has a load of cash and is looking to get everything set up in a proffesional way for the players and in a way which supporters will prefer.
Selhurst will be bought back, hence the short term lease, it is 10 years and Palace earn all revenues taken at all times, we only pay RN rent.
I really hate the fact that you have to use words like "quantum leap" when you talk about the difference between our clubs. We are a division apart and at the end of the season we may not be, so it is hardly "quantum" is it.
We are 3 months out of the threat of extinction, things will not start coming together for a couple more months yet, it is too soon for honest Palace fans to doubt the club with the latest info etc, but for a rival fan to doubt not knowing what Palace are up to behind the scenes really is difficult to understand, it shows this hatred you have of probably our previous chairman which still burns in you now, why not vent your anger on Brentford, after all he is now their chairman and not ours.
I really have nothing left to say other than, if you really think that Charlton are the only team who can survive this then I guess we will have to wait and see at what Palaces future holds.
1fe1
exiled in Wales
18-10-2000, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, Our catchment area is Croydon which as I believe is the biggest town in greater london (or at least one of them)
According to the BBC when Croydon was applying for millenium city status it is "the largest town in Western Europe".
I do wish you'd get your facts straight. http://www.cpfc.org/ubb/wink.gif
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
Why do you think Palace will not turn the corner?? We have money, We are signing new players, we have a base of 10000 season ticket holders, a new lease on selhurst park, a new kit sponsor, a new youth academy sponsor, new training facilities are being sorted out at the moment (one which will be bought outright and for sole use by Palace) and not to mention the "freebies" as you call it along with the the other initiatives that are being introduced in the local commmunity.
Not a bad START considering we are only 3 months in, would'nt you say??
Yes, not a bad start - you've also sacked Coppell, replaced him with Smith and are currently in a relegation position.
So why don't I see Palace turning the corner ? Simple - you have to emulate what Charlton have achieved. What you fail to appreciate is the magnitude of this turnaround in our fortunes.
The Charlton story of the past decade is indeed a very rare one, it will be remarkable for lightning to strike twice."
The odds are against you. In most cases, clubs in Palace's position try but FAIL.
Top Eagle
18-10-2000, 06:01 PM
So by your reckoning, we can not do it, fine it all seems clear now. The following points are really some to point out though:
1) Palace were never in as a bad a situation as charlton, therefore there is left damage to fix.
2) Charlton had to move home and therefore lost a lot more of their long term supporters.
3) Charlton were one of the first clubs to get in and out of this situation, therefore had no experience to draw from other clubs.
So, as I say it is as clear as mud why Charlton can do it and Palace cant (or any other club by the sound of it. You may have been the first but you seem to think that "magic" charlton will be the only ones to do it.
No.2, you really do seem to hate Palace a hell of a lot, I will enjoy it when we do turn this around, I hope you still come onto this board, so we can all ram your words back down your throat.
Top Eagle, GET A LIFE !
You think you can escape relegation, FINE DO IT !
You think Simon can get you in the Premiere League, FINE DO IT !
There are too many talkers in this world and not a lot of doers. We have, now it your turn.
PLEASE SOMEONE START ANOTHER THREAD, THIS IS SO BORING !
Guess we'll just have to wait until 21:30 tonight.
Sorry No.1, disagree with some of your comments. Yes, ours is a magical story, but in the big picture we have achieved jack all, that boast will come in 5 years time if we mantain premiership status consistantly.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, you really do seem to hate Palace a hell of a lot, I will enjoy it when we do turn this around, I hope you still come onto this board, so we can all ram your words back down your throat.
No problem - I'll be here for a long while waiting though.
Football - it's all about opinions, isn't it ?? just mine are different to yours Top Eagle.
Oh and by the way, all that raming words down throats and all that. I doing exactly that myself old bean.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
So, as I say it is as clear as mud why Charlton can do it and Palace cant (or any other club by the sound of it. You may have been the first but you seem to think that "magic" charlton will be the only ones to do it.
More cr*p - I did not say any other club couldn't do it - you do try to invent things to suit your side of a discussion.
Actual post was "One last point, owning our own ground was the foundation of what was achieved in SE7, it would not have happened without the Valley. Crystal Palace still do not own or control what happens to Selhurst Park. Without that base, for the wider commercial activities that are essential for a club to grow, in the proportions that we are talking about. It is my opinion that although you have the potential, it will never be realised
while you club is in this situation. It is no good you keep talking about this potential if it is never to be realised and if the past four years are anything to go by - IT NEVER WILL."
Top Eagle
18-10-2000, 09:18 PM
Who's words No.2??
Mine?? I think not. You can constantly say I am putting words into your mouth, but I am not, I am simply not getting past the tone of them, hence the WAY you talk makes it sound as if Charlton are the only ones who can pull it off.
No.2 you are right, Charlton are in a better situation than Palace at the moment, I dont think anyone is disputing that. You moved back to the valley in 1992 and got promoted in 97/98 then relegated 98/99 and then promoted again 99/00 so it took you about 5/6 years to get first instalment of the success that we are talking about. I think even by Charlton's great escape act, 3 months is a little early to be judging dont you??
You said "do it", I think we will and I am hoping it wont take as long as it took you.
Top Eagle
19-10-2000, 04:36 AM
No.2 here is a snippet of my post:
My wording was probably wrong, but what you were saying was pointless in my opinion, all of this you have done it and nobody else can is utter rubbish, if we dont then fair enough
I am hardly arguing, by the very fact that I said "if we dont then fair enough".
You seem to take everything said on here about Palace as a slate against Charlton, why??
Why do you think Palace will not turn the corner?? We have money, We are signing new players, we have a base of 10000 season ticket holders, a new lease on selhurst park, a new kit sponsor, a new youth academy sponsor, new training facilities are being sorted out at the moment (one which will be bought outright and for sole use by Palace) and not to mention the "freebies" as you call it along with the the other initiatives that are being introduced in the local commmunity.
Not a bad START considering we are only 3 months in, would'nt you say??
I am not slating Charlton by asking you why YOU think we can not get back to where we were before the goldberk era started?? It is a simple question.
1f77
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
You said "do it", I think we will and I am hoping it wont take as long as it took you.
Looking around the threads Top Eagle, it would appear that there are very few who share your optimism.
Nš1 : Don't let Top Eagle get to you. He talks a Premier League game yet just as his team he's actually talking Nationwide footie.
Top you've done this one to death, why don't you tell us how unlucky you were last night and how losing to the best team is no disgrace malarchy, it's what we really want to know, did you go ? How many there at the start, and how many with 5 mins to go ?
Them games are running out !
Top Eagle
19-10-2000, 05:03 PM
Was hardley homework, the tw@t said it on radio.
Was followed up with this:
The interviewer, then asked, does he (Alan), still have the support of his Chairman? Alan said, "I have spoken at length to Simon, and he is in agreement this is a period of great pain and change for Palace, Simon has told me I have all the time I need to get things right on the pitch, and if that means relegation this season to come back twice as strong the next, then so be it".
What does that say to you?? Usually a manager gets sacked if he has full support from a chairman, I think if he feels like that we should wave him farewell.
Blind_Eagle
19-10-2000, 06:18 PM
I knew this would happen. He, Smith, didn't say that and its now being quoted as gospel by both Palace and away fans to justify differing viewpoints. It was a ******* windup now drop it.
Please?
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
What does that say to you?? Usually a manager gets sacked if he has full support from a chairman, I think if he feels like that we should wave him farewell.
So I can take it that your not so optimistic now then ?????
fieldy
19-10-2000, 06:26 PM
Congratulations to you all Charlton fans, your pathetic little club has done sooooooooooo well, Your trophy cabinet back at the "Valley" must be busting at the seams with all this silverware you've been winning, of course you must have won something, otherwise you'd have nothing to gloat about would you??? Why do you bother, no Palace fan gives a toss about Charlton, You are not our "rivals" and never will be no matter how hard you try, Go and find someone else to irritate, no one will ever be your rivals because no one cares what happens to you, you are a nothing club. If you stay up or go down, go bust or are still around in a thousand years, no one will care. How can I say this YOU ARE A BUNCH OF MUPPETS
Top Eagle
19-10-2000, 09:27 PM
No.2, read your post on the General Palace Discussion under another name quickly. Hence my question have you registered as someone else.
I am not Smith's greatest fan, but if he stays I realise we all have to back him as much as possible. We have enough good players to stay in this league and finish in a respectable position with him or without him. That opinion will not change unless things get alot worse from where we are now.
Would ask you not to be so pathetic as to register as someone else and post on the home boards, this is not your site so why abuse it, you are just letting down the real charlton fans who are generally up for a good discussion.
TOP EAGLE Quote : The interviewer, then asked, does he (Alan), still have the support of his Chairman? Alan said, "I have spoken at length to Simon, and he is in agreement this is a period of great pain and change for Palace, Simon has told me I have all the time I need to get things right on the pitch, and if that means relegation this season to come back twice as strong the next, then so be it". UNQUOTE
So then when Steve Coppell left Palace, what reason did he give. Please don't quote me literally, but wasn't it something along the lines of Simon Jordan wanted a guarantee if I Had so much money that I could ensure promotion ? Sounds like Big Als just had the dreaded vote of confidence... don't you ???
And as for fieldy, for a club that is irrelevant to you, we sure do genreate some feedback...go an chew on something or suck your thumb !
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, you really do seem to hate Palace a hell of a lot, I will enjoy it when we do turn this around, I hope you still come onto this board, so we can all ram your words back down your throat.
Top Eagle - even your manager thinks you may have to wait a long time !!!!
Quote Alan Smith "You have to accept there was a lot of things wrong at Palace when I came, to get this club ultimately performing like Fulham, we may need a spell in the Second Division, the fans must understand that".
Quality defeatist quote ! good homework nš1
Top Eagle
20-10-2000, 11:57 AM
Spanish, I think that quote that I put in was a wind up by an away fan.
However going back to your question, rightly or wrongly I think SJ will not put up with this streak of form for long. As for Copps, I think it actually may have been "mutual consent" as I really think he would have struggled working for SJ, he is probably a little too much out of the RN mould. Still it is his money, and we are lucky to still be here, so I guess he is not all that bad!!!
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
No.2, read your post on the General Palace Discussion under another name quickly. Hence my question have you registered as someone else.
NO - you are paranoid.
Originally posted by Top Eagle:
Would ask you not to be so pathetic as to register as someone else and post on the home boards, this is not your site so why abuse it, you are just letting down the real charlton fans who are generally up for a good discussion.
Top Eagle, I didn't realise, until I read all this thread, how much sh*t you have been giving me.
Can you please explain your logic, as to why you believed it to be ME that posted that thread ???????????
77
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