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stonechat
01-05-2014, 05:33 PM
In post-match discussions with directors of other clubs, have you asked about the merits of opening a shop in a town centre where there is a high footfall?

Similar-sized Premiership clubs such as Stoke, Norwich, Cardiff Southampton all have shops both at their grounds and in busy retail areas.

West Ham and arsenal both have two others, while Spurs have three - including one at Finsbury Park tube station.

Admittedly, there would be a cost implication - rent, rates and staffing, but it seems a shame that Palace have no presence in the centre of somewhere like Croydon.

On a daily basis, a town centre retail outlet would emphasise that Palace is the local club to support and send out a strong statement to supporters, prospective supporters (especially youngsters) and, above all, to potential sponsors.

The club surely ought to exploit its brand to full effect in the same way as other football clubs

CPFC2010
02-05-2014, 06:15 AM
In post-match discussions with directors of other clubs, have you asked about the merits of opening a shop in a town centre where there is a high footfall?

Similar-sized Premiership clubs such as Stoke, Norwich, Cardiff Southampton all have shops both at their grounds and in busy retail areas.

West Ham and arsenal both have two others, while Spurs have three - including one at Finsbury Park tube station.

Admittedly, there would be a cost implication - rent, rates and staffing, but it seems a shame that Palace have no presence in the centre of somewhere like Croydon.

On a daily basis, a town centre retail outlet would emphasise that Palace is the local club to support and send out a strong statement to supporters, prospective supporters (especially youngsters) and, above all, to potential sponsors.

The club surely ought to exploit its brand to full effect in the same way as other football clubs


This is a route that the club has been down before and, as I understand it, without success. Getting Palace in the public eye is something that can be achieved more effectively by the better use of social media, tv and the internet than by having unsold shirts hanging up in a store in a shopping centre. It's not like it hasnt been tried before under previous owners.

Far East Eagle
02-05-2014, 06:32 AM
But to be fair, the last attempt was closed down when we were.in thr Championship. Now were in the Premier League, it would doubtlessly be more successful.

Also, Colchester United have a shop in Colchester town center

CPFC2010
02-05-2014, 06:55 AM
But to be fair, the last attempt was closed down when we were.in thr Championship. Now were in the Premier League, it would doubtlessly be more successful.

Also, Colchester United have a shop in Colchester town center

They have to as their ground is in the middle of nowhere.

Beanie
02-05-2014, 07:38 AM
This is a route that the club has been down before and, as I understand it, without success. Getting Palace in the public eye is something that can be achieved more effectively by the better use of social media, tv and the internet than by having unsold shirts hanging up in a store in a shopping centre. It's not like it hasnt been tried before under previous owners.
Hi Steve,

This is more a comment than a question - sorry - and not on this point specifically. I have a little concern about the clubs seeming planned reliance on social media and even the internet to raise the profile going forward. I agree - these are the future, but I'm not so sure they are as much "now" as some seem to believe. We have many older fans and "interested parties" (younger fans grans and granddads, even parents, aunties and uncles) for whom social media is anathema and even the internet one of the world mysteries. There must be loads of Christmas, birthday and other presents right there. It seems to me the club may be moving a little too much to "the future". Perhaps some good old billboards, bus adverts, simple mail-order with high quality, hard copy, brochures, basic "snail mail" shots would be worth bearing in mind for a while yet. What about it? (there you are a question! :D )

chav_hater
02-05-2014, 07:44 AM
Instead of having to commit to paying rents, rates, wages etc. for a permanent store in Croydon, what about having one of those truck things going into town centre on home matchdays? Doesn't need to be packed full of stuff, just the basics. If you don't know what I mean then they have them dotted around at Twickenham and Lords (if you've been). Not sure what Croydon Council would have to say about it, but they let 'stop smoking' vans in there. Although this wouldn't be designed for the good of society in the same way, getting the town excited about its football club can only be good news can't it?

adman50
02-05-2014, 07:50 AM
Perhaps there could be a small concession area in say Sports Direct at Valley Park and the Whitgift Centre.

Baffles me how they sell Celtic and Newcastle shirts but not local teams.

scro
02-05-2014, 07:56 AM
They have to as their ground is in the middle of nowhere.

I think part of the problem Palace have is the stigma that is attached to croydon. A very significant number of palace fans don't want to be associated to the place and are even less likely to spend regular time shopping there. I am guessing that simply isn't the case for the fan base of many other clubs. Especially those from outside London.

Bobby Smith
02-05-2014, 08:29 AM
Steve

Slightly tangential to the original question but ultimately also about availability & exposure. Are you looking at relaxing the current policy of only selling replica kits via the Club Shop? Will we be seeing them on Kitbag for example? Or in Sports Direct?

Thanks

strolling bones
02-05-2014, 08:40 AM
This is a route that the club has been down before and, as I understand it, without success. Getting Palace in the public eye is something that can be achieved more effectively by the better use of social media, tv and the internet than by having unsold shirts hanging up in a store in a shopping centre. It's not like it hasnt been tried before under previous owners.

Different times though, different regime, and different approach. We are an established preier league club now, higher profile, and definately better run. Surprised to see you dismiss this idea . I think it would work this time .

Heb 7:4
02-05-2014, 08:52 AM
Do Tottenham have a shop at Finsbury Park? There's a massive Arsenal one I know, but where's the Tottenham one in relation to it?

kick it doris
02-05-2014, 08:53 AM
Has a mobile facility been considered that could park up in Croydon, Bromley, Orpington etc on a rota? Seen it work in Istanbul in Taxim Square. Brighton even had one on the seafront at the Brighton marathon recently. It could park up in the fan zone for match days. Selhurst Park isn't a destination for heavy footfall unless you are going there anyway and misses the spur of the moment purchase. I've found postage from the shop is expensive in comparison with other online sports retailers. Its often free if spending say 50 or is charged at around a flat rate of 2-4 per transaction regardless of the order. For 5 I would expect next day delivery but that isn't the case.

saxoneagle
02-05-2014, 09:26 AM
Should be seen as a loss-leading marketing tool, then, rather than a profit-making outlet.

Kids walking through Croydon see ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool shirts everywhere in sports shops, but nothing Palace.

CPFC2010
02-05-2014, 10:29 AM
Steve

Slightly tangential to the original question but ultimately also about availability & exposure. Are you looking at relaxing the current policy of only selling replica kits via the Club Shop? Will we be seeing them on Kitbag for example? Or in Sports Direct?

Thanks

No, I don't think that we are looking to change this policy but all these questions should be addressed to Mike Pink rather than me. He is going to be running this. All I can say is to repeat that giving up our profit margin to other retailers makes no commercial sense. Having a few Palace shirts on sale or return at the back of the rack in a shopping mall behind Chelsea shirts doesn't really "market" our club positively.

ammiller
02-05-2014, 11:23 AM
No, I don't think that we are looking to change this policy but all these questions should be addressed to Mike Pink rather than me. He is going to be running this. All I can say is to repeat that giving up our profit margin to other retailers makes no commercial sense. Having a few Palace shirts on sale or return at the back of the rack in a shopping mall behind Chelsea shirts doesn't really "market" our club positively.

As a self-confessed CPFC2010 sycophant, I have to say that this is one area that I don't agree with.
Croydon has been lost to a few generations of Palace fans - and this approach doesn't help to rectify maters.

I suppose CPFC2010 could argue that it doesn't matter as we sell out most weeks already - but I think, even if it doesn't make commercial sense, it should be a loss-leader to get our name out there. (I nearly said "Brand" - what a prick).

What I don't understand is why there are shirts of so many other clubs apart from Chel and Arse, in these shops. I'm talking about the rubbishe clubs like Charlton and Liverpool - why do they do it if it doesn't make financial sense?

The mone we make from sale of shirts can't be so much compared to the exposure we would get from putting our brand (D'oh!) out there.

So, as this is a questions forum, Steve, when are you going to provide a cash injection into the Crystal Palace Dominoes Club, them being the heartbeat of the club and community since last week?

little al
02-05-2014, 11:38 AM
No, I don't think that we are looking to change this policy but all these questions should be addressed to Mike Pink rather than me. He is going to be running this. All I can say is to repeat that giving up our profit margin to other retailers makes no commercial sense. Having a few Palace shirts on sale or return at the back of the rack in a shopping mall behind Chelsea shirts doesn't really "market" our club positively.

And to repeat again, a little less profit vs club exposure/advertising is worth it in pretty much everybodys eyes except the boards.

monster
02-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Hi Steve, i have not posted on this forum up to now so firstly can i thank all four of you for the fantastic work you are doing.

I know the shop has been tried before and not had much success, probably due to most of the people/shoppers in croydon and Sutton are mainly Chelsea or Man U fans.
In a post above it was mentioned/suggested having a mobile shop as per Twickenham, i'm sure you have seen them. It may work, however i think putting one out side Norwood Junction station on a mach day would definitely work. I go to games via NJ and sit in the upper Holmesdale, i know there is a kiosk on the concourse but with a limited stock. The thought of walking to the club shop and queuing up is a nightmare.
There is plenty of room to the left hand side as you exit the ticket office. I'm sure more people are in the same position as me and would use it. JAT

stonechat
02-05-2014, 09:28 PM
Very disappointed with the board's weak response which seem to indicate a lack of vision, ambition and commercial awareness.

Basically the message seems to be: "We can't really be bothered - we're only a small-time club, so we're happy to cede the High Street shopping experience to big clubs like Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea. Let them sell as much as their merchandise as they like, even though Croydon is our own patch."

To bat the issue away to Mike Pink is bit of a cop-out. I am sure he's doing a great job, but he's operational - he's not the guy who sets the strategy.

The board should show some gumption, enterprise, drive and a determination to make it work this time in the same way as it obviously is doing for other clubs (including Brighton).

As Steve P said in his interview, Palace should think big and have high expectations.

What is more, a town centre presence would be a constant reminder to potential sponsors/ advertisers/ season ticket buyers.

The reference to "unsold shirts" is a bit glib. It would, in fact, sell hundreds of shirts and a whole load else. Other football club have a huge range of merchandise beyond just items of clothing.The board underestimates the enormous enthusiasm of fans (especially younger ones) for all things Palace-related.

Subject to licensing consent, a town centre shop could even sell fine wines!

Please think again!

In the meantime, incidentally, what is Mike Pink's view on this? Is he allowed to express a point of view on the forum?

CPFC2010
02-05-2014, 10:12 PM
Very disappointed with the board's weak response which seem to indicate a lack of vision, ambition and commercial awareness.

Basically the message seems to be: "We can't really be bothered - we're only a small-time club, so we're happy to cede the High Street shopping experience to big clubs like Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea. Let them sell as much as their merchandise as they like, even though Croydon is our own patch."

To bat the issue away to Mike Pink is bit of a cop-out. I am sure he's doing a great job, but he's operational - he's not the guy who sets the strategy.

The board should show some gumption, enterprise, drive and a determination to make it work this time in the same way as it obviously is doing for other clubs (including Brighton).

As Steve P said in his interview, Palace should think big and have high expectations.

What is more, a town centre presence would be a constant reminder to potential sponsors/ advertisers/ season ticket buyers.

The reference to "unsold shirts" is a bit glib. It would, in fact, sell hundreds of shirts and a whole load else. Other football club have a huge range of merchandise beyond just items of clothing.The board underestimates the enormous enthusiasm of fans (especially younger ones) for all things Palace-related.

Subject to licensing consent, a town centre shop could even sell fine wines!

Please think again!

In the meantime, incidentally, what is Mike Pink's view on this? Is he allowed to express a point of view on the forum?

Sorry to be so weak and lacking vision. I thought that we were doing quite well but you seem to want us to repeat the failures of previous owners.

Anyway Mike has been brought in to run the retail side so let's see what he thinks about this. He knows more about it than you and me.

Pistol Knight
02-05-2014, 10:26 PM
And to repeat again, a little less profit vs club exposure/advertising is worth it in pretty much everybodys eyes except the boards.

:p:p:p:p

Reg_Maudling
03-05-2014, 07:32 AM
I too would love to see another go at a shop in Croydon and/or exploring some of these other ideas like the mobile shop on matchdays but the insult here to CPFC2010 for taking another view is silly and unjustified

jarrad
03-05-2014, 07:44 AM
Sorry to be so weak and lacking vision. I thought that we were doing quite well but you seem to want us to repeat the failures of previous owners.

Anyway Mike has been brought in to run the retail side so let's see what he thinks about this. He knows more about it than you and me.


Well, you were saying the same things about taking the club sho in house a while ago. Even as a marketing ploy, having a physical presence in more areas than just Selhurst Park would be a statement of intent in my opinion...

frogboy
03-05-2014, 07:58 AM
Didn't their used to be a shop in Croydon maybe 10 to 15 years ago I think it only opened for a couple of years I think it was in George Street

pauldrulez
03-05-2014, 08:18 AM
From memory, there was George Street and then Allders.

There was 2 attempts at shops in Sutton as well.

CPFC2010
03-05-2014, 08:24 AM
From memory, there was George Street and then Allders.

There was 2 attempts at shops in Sutton as well.

Yes, I believe that there were numerous attempts at shops and all failed and were closed down. It's easy for people to ask us to run a loss-making shop when it's not their money at stake.

Mike Pink is very busy on plans to open a new shop at Selhurst and a new web site. If he thinks he can make another store (or selling through 3rd parties) work then of course we'd look at that.

I've asked him to have a look at this thread and reply with an update of what he's been working on so far.

Heb 7:4
03-05-2014, 08:25 AM
Goldberg also had one in Bromley.

It was almost always empty and there is no way it did enough business to justify it.

CPFC2010
03-05-2014, 08:27 AM
Goldberg also had one in Bromley.

It was almost always empty and there is no way it did enough business to justify it.

That's what I heard too. Ideas are all well and good but they have to work.

cjcpfc
03-05-2014, 09:03 AM
How about those "pop up" shops you get over the christmas period could that work just at a short time?

It may not make much money and may take some of the money away from the club shop itself but it could relieve some of the pressure they could be under to get online orders.

Also at same time will give an exposure for the club.

I dont know on the costings but if you did have a club shop full time in croydon could you find a way that you can also be able to sell tickets there?

Yogya
03-05-2014, 10:34 AM
Surely having a better website "shop" is the way to go. Steve, any chance that this could be multi-lingual given that Steve Parish was mentioning that he wants to improve international support?

CPFC2010
03-05-2014, 10:36 AM
Surely having a better website "shop" is the way to go. Steve, any chance that this could be multi-lingual given that Steve Parish was mentioning that he wants to improve international support?

There is going to be a completely new on line shop. Not sure if we are ready to go multi-lingual.

Billy Rhino
03-05-2014, 11:18 AM
That's what I heard too. Ideas are all well and good but they have to work.

I agree, would need to have low rent and overheads to work and combined with other services. I reckon if combined with an internet cafe it could work.

little al
03-05-2014, 11:40 AM
I agree, would need to have low rent and overheads to work and combined with other services. I reckon if combined with an internet cafe it could work.

Who the hell uses internet cafes these days?

west country boy
03-05-2014, 12:14 PM
Do internet cafes still exist?

CPFC2010
03-05-2014, 12:21 PM
Maybe a video rental store?

Betamax only.

Billy Rhino
03-05-2014, 12:31 PM
Who the hell uses internet cafes these days?

Probably more coffee shops than internet ones I guess. How about The Rossoblu Cafe coffee/club shop?

jaspercpfc
03-05-2014, 03:07 PM
How about those "pop up" shops you get over the christmas period could that work just at a short time?



Seems the most practical solution. Provides a short term commitment for the club, which means the brand is more able to adapt to changes in its business and marketing plans. Would also enable the club to engage in test marketing new products and promotions to gauge future demand
I think it would potentially encourage encourage spontaneous purchases and allow for brand extension

webgard
03-05-2014, 03:18 PM
Surely having a better website "shop" is the way to go. Steve, any chance that this could be multi-lingual given that Steve Parish was mentioning that he wants to improve international support?


I'm single-handedly promoting mighty Palace in Persian- shame Iran is under sanctions so there's no way to do business with that part of the world for the time being but Iranian diaspora are bombarded with my cpfc tweets and posts!

Heb 7:4
03-05-2014, 06:22 PM
Open a real ale pub in Bromley Steve, Palace merchandise available from the bar, Millwall fans barred from entry.

Streathamite
03-05-2014, 07:06 PM
Can see how the shop would struggle, let's be honest.

It's a shame cos when there's a new Westfield in Croydon pulling in people from all over south London/Surrey/Kent/Sussex it would have been nice to have a decent looking shop there. Loads of people who don't actually go to games still like to buy a replica shirt or two. (As the Chelsea fans in the aforementioned areas demonstrate.)

Nelson Muntz
03-05-2014, 07:12 PM
Do internet cafes still exist?

Put it in the back of a Woolworths and your laughing.

CPFC_Merch
03-05-2014, 08:19 PM
Hi All

Sorry for the delay in posting, I've read through the thread and its a really good debate and some solid points made by all.

From my perspective its about setting a strategy and then building out and widening the net as we move along. From a priorities perspective we need to focus on the stadium retail facilities first which we are looking into, setting up the new ecommerce store and getting the product and service right across both areas. Through our own outlets we will make the best margin for the club and we need to ensure these services are good enough for what we are trying to deliver in terms of experience for all.

Once we have made these improvements and have the services running as we should its then onto reviewing other opportunities such as building up the licensing programme and seeing more CPFC product appear on the high street through other retailers. In terms of the shirts we have exclusive rights on retail of the shirts produced by Macron, so we are in control of our destiny here. We're launching with a new brand and I think at present we need to see how sales through the club will go before we consider reverting to wholesale but its an option going forward.

With regard to high street or shopping centre stores then this is something we should aspire to in the future and is achievable in the right location and with a very robust business plan. When you take into account rates, rents, utilities, staff, cost of stock and margins it can be a costly mistake and fail very quickly if we rush into anything so we need to really do our research before we consider this move.

In terms of mobile units/trailers then these are quick and easy to deliver and purchase or hire of these will be linked in partly to how we achieve a better service at the stadium and what we do in terms of the main store.

I appreciate all the posts on the topic, there is massive potential in the retail for Palace and its a really exciting project to be involved with. Rest assured I have a real desire to raise the bar and provide the service the supporters deserve.

Mike

CPFC2010
03-05-2014, 08:22 PM
Brilliant. Thanks Mike. I think that this covers everything and we can conclude this thread for the time being.