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Bryan
18-05-2014, 07:46 PM
Steve, do you still like the original proposal for the new stadium at Crystal Palace park, or in hindsight do you think it would be likely to ruin the atmosphere and culture at the club?

I only ask as I think many of us were excited at the time but this season has shown that Selhurst really is special with all it's flaws which hopefully can be tackled over time.

CPFC2010
19-05-2014, 06:32 AM
Steve, do you still like the original proposal for the new stadium at Crystal Palace park, or in hindsight do you think it would be likely to ruin the atmosphere and culture at the club?

I only ask as I think many of us were excited at the time but this season has shown that Selhurst really is special with all it's flaws which hopefully can be tackled over time.

I still think that it would have been great to return to the club's original home (and indeed the home of football) in a brand new stadium but it looks like that will never happen.

The job now is to modernise Selhurst Park whilst keeping the special character and atmosphere of the place.

jojobarnet
19-05-2014, 01:11 PM
I still think that it would have been great to return to the club's original home (and indeed the home of football) in a brand new stadium but it looks like that will never happen.

The job now is to modernise Selhurst Park whilst keeping the special character and atmosphere of the place.

Let the architect know that we dont want the noise to leak through the stands!!

elgin eagle
19-05-2014, 04:04 PM
I still think that it would have been great to return to the club's original home (and indeed the home of football) in a brand new stadium but it looks like that will never happen.

The job now is to modernise Selhurst Park whilst keeping the special character and atmosphere of the place.

To be honest, I can't understand why getting pp for a new stadium to replace the near derelict existing athletics one in the park would be so difficult, especially with council support. Surely it could ideally be landscaped to be almost underground, making it a perfect venue accoustically and geographically?

Having said that, you've started spending money on moneypit selhurst now, so unless you were planning of renting selhurst out to wimbledon or a rugby side, could understand you not wanting to follow your preferred legacy choice.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
19-05-2014, 08:58 PM
To be honest, I can't understand why getting pp for a new stadium to replace the near derelict existing athletics one in the park would be so difficult, especially with council support. Surely it could ideally be landscaped to be almost underground, making it a perfect venue accoustically and geographically?

Having said that, you've started spending money on moneypit selhurst now, so unless you were planning of renting selhurst out to wimbledon or a rugby side, could understand you not wanting to follow your preferred legacy choice.

My brother is the project manager for Bristol City's stadium redevelopment. They literally spent years and millions on trying to get a new stadium sorted. They bought the land, had council support until a handful of locals objected to an area of wasteland being turned in to a football stadium, claiming it was a 'village green' that they used. There is some loophole in the law which means they can't get in trouble if proved to be lying and the whole thing was a huge pain in the arse. It just takes a few people who don't want a stadium and the traffic anywhere near them to make the whole thing a nightmare.

Now of course Bristol City they have returned to redeveloping Ashton Gate instead. However, they lost years on the new stadium project, a load of money and countless hours of work.

CPFC2010
19-05-2014, 10:18 PM
My brother is the project manager for Bristol City's new stadium. They literally spent years and millions on trying to get a new stadium sorted. They bought the land, had council support until a handful of locals objected to an area of wasteland being turned in to a football stadium, claiming it was a 'village green' that they used. There is some loophole in the law which means they can't get in trouble if proved to be lying and the whole thing was a huge pain in the arse. It just takes a few people who don't want a stadium and the traffic anywhere near them to make the whole thing a nightmare.

Now of course Bristol City they have returned to redeveloping Ashton Gate instead. However, they lost years on the new stadium project, a load of money and countless hours of work.

The Bristol City experience and the power of the Nimbys is certainly one good reason for pressing on with the re-development of Selhurst Park.

elgin eagle
20-05-2014, 07:16 AM
My brother is the project manager for Bristol City's stadium redevelopment. They literally spent years and millions on trying to get a new stadium sorted. They bought the land, had council support until a handful of locals objected to an area of wasteland being turned in to a football stadium, claiming it was a 'village green' that they used. There is some loophole in the law which means they can't get in trouble if proved to be lying and the whole thing was a huge pain in the arse. It just takes a few people who don't want a stadium and the traffic anywhere near them to make the whole thing a nightmare.

Now of course Bristol City they have returned to redeveloping Ashton Gate instead. However, they lost years on the new stadium project, a load of money and countless hours of work.

It just seems unbelievable that trying to get planning permission on a site which already has an existing stadium on its footprint would be denied. You would think it would be the perfect location. Bloody nimbys. Still Selhurst is fixable I guess.

janerz
20-05-2014, 10:38 AM
It just seems unbelievable that trying to get planning permission on a site which already has an existing stadium on its footprint would be denied. You would think it would be the perfect location. Bloody nimbys. Still Selhurst is fixable I guess.

The issue wouldn't be the stadium itself. It would be the infrastructure issues. The CPNSC holds 15,500, which can be increased up to 24,000 for the International meetings. Those events are obviously few and far between. The NIMBY's would argue that the area couldn't cope with a new stadium holding 30-40K, every other week, for 9-10 months of a year.

We might be better off redeveloping Selhurst for now, and maybe look at the CPP site again in 20-30 years. The tram link might have been extended, road lay outs may have changed etc. If the club could establish its self in the premier league for a considerable amount of time, it would hold more weight in the council/governments eyes.

eaglejez
20-05-2014, 12:23 PM
To be honest, I can't understand why getting pp for a new stadium to replace the near derelict existing athletics one in the park would be so difficult, especially with council support. Surely it could ideally be landscaped to be almost underground, making it a perfect venue accoustically and geographically?

Having said that, you've started spending money on moneypit selhurst now, so unless you were planning of renting selhurst out to wimbledon or a rugby side, could understand you not wanting to follow your preferred legacy choice.

cost is a big issue too. Totally guessing figs the best case scenario for a new stadium would be 120m less 10-15 m (sale of SP) less c5m naming rights less 5-10m council grant so still getting on for 100m (and not sure how land costs would fit in). Whichever way it would be enormous whereas for a lot less we could have a spanking refurbished Selhurst :)

Cpt_Fantastic
20-05-2014, 01:34 PM
A new stadium would have been great, my fear would have been becoming like Bolton & Coventry.

Both have no atmosphere.

elgin eagle
20-05-2014, 06:44 PM
The issue wouldn't be the stadium itself. It would be the infrastructure issues. The CPNSC holds 15,500, which can be increased up to 24,000 for the International meetings. Those events are obviously few and far between. The NIMBY's would argue that the area couldn't cope with a new stadium holding 30-40K, every other week, for 9-10 months of a year.

We might be better off redeveloping Selhurst for now, and maybe look at the CPP site again in 20-30 years. The tram link might have been extended, road lay outs may have changed etc. If the club could establish its self in the premier league for a considerable amount of time, it would hold more weight in the council/governments eyes.

The road access is/was a huge stumbling block i'm sure. I've dropped mrs elgin at the park lots of times and picked her up after matches, and the traffic was pretty bad then, even without a match. I can't see that improving ever to be honest, if anything it will probably get worse. Which is a great shame as it would have been an excellent location otherwise, probably the best in the country.

elgin eagle
20-05-2014, 06:49 PM
A new stadium would have been great, my fear would have been becoming like Bolton & Coventry.

Both have no atmosphere.

This is cpfc2010 we are talking about though, you just know it would have been an acoustic amphitheatre to rival the seattle seahawks and as loud as besiktas v galatasaray for palace v barnsley. Palace v Arsenal would have broken sound records.

Rustyeagle
21-05-2014, 05:49 AM
Steve any chance of adding some no row 1 signs around lower holmesdale as requested earlier on in the year. Thanks

CPFC2010
21-05-2014, 06:31 AM
Steve any chance of adding some no row 1 signs around lower holmesdale as requested earlier on in the year. Thanks

That will be done in the summer

Scoot
21-05-2014, 07:27 AM
Infrastructure etc has absolutely nothing to do with Nimbys. If a plan was put forward for Crystal palace park that involved traffic but increased the value of the houses they would not give it a second thought.
IMVHO there is little point planning anything for Selhurst building wise if it means the AW height cannot be increased (thus meaning a bigger concourse as it has a huge footprint) and a crappy little 3/4 length main stand :(.
I would love Palace to return "home" but it aint going to happen sadly.

peterg
21-05-2014, 09:19 AM
The transport links to the CP Sports Centre are far inferior to Selhurst Park. SP has three train stations within ten minutes walk, plus buses and good street parking. (It always annoys me when north London people say SP is difficult to get to. First, it depends on where you start. Second, Spurs is the worst ground in London to reach.) The CPSC has one train station. It has lots of buses but the street parking is dismal. All of that would need fixing if we were ever to consider moving there.

spunky
21-05-2014, 11:46 AM
I was in CP park on sunday for a triathlon, and with normal traffic plus 500 or so competitors the roads around CPP were f*cked, honestly cant see them coping at all well with 30,000 people all leaving at the same time

foresthillbilly
21-05-2014, 12:43 PM
at the risk of repetition, i'll just bulletpoint a few of the bigger issues, in a chronological type way.

*Bromley council took over CP Park from the LDA about 10 years ago(my memory is fading, but you can google it)
*CP Park is a huge drain on resources for Bromley as it hardly has any money- making activities to finance its upkeep (fishing permits, the odd concert and the motorsport weekend). Upkeep involves plant and grass maintenance, playground, litter management and also upkeep of concrete listed buildings/stadium that are crumbling to bits and are rarely used.
*Bromley put forward a proposed Masterplan to finance maintenance/improvements to the park
* The Masterplan was vehemently opposed by local residents in the form of CPCA (Crystal Palace Community Association), who didn't want anything to happen to the park.
*Ken Livingstone (as London Mayor) proposed a tram extension to CPPark, to improve transport links. Boris scrapped this within a week of his election of Mayor.
*CPFC2010 put an outline proposal forward for relocation to the park, a move which Bromley would welcome as it would assist with their substantial maintenance costs, which are a real drain on their resources.
Initial feedback is not good, so CPFC2010 shelve plans for the Park and concentrate on developing Selhurst.
* Plans are submitted for the re-building of the Crystal Palace in the Park, with improved transport links.

You can draw your own conclusions from this, but I'm not putting anything else up. You'll have to google things like CPCA, Masterplan for crystal palace park etc etc,

New LP
21-05-2014, 12:49 PM
The transport links to the CP Sports Centre are far inferior to Selhurst Park. SP has three train stations within ten minutes walk, plus buses and good street parking. (It always annoys me when north London people say SP is difficult to get to. First, it depends on where you start. Second, Spurs is the worst ground in London to reach.) The CPSC has one train station. It has lots of buses but the street parking is dismal. All of that would need fixing if we were ever to consider moving there.

Not really true, Crystal Palace park is with 20 minutes of about 4 stations, Crystal Palace, Gipsy Hill, Penge East, Penge West and would also have great connections to Kent, which Selhurst Park does not. Clearly, transport would need improvement and maybe the tram to be extended, but to dismiss CPP in favour of Selhurst on this basis is not valid.

Latvian Eagle
21-05-2014, 01:21 PM
The transport links to the CP Sports Centre are far inferior to Selhurst Park. SP has three train stations within ten minutes walk, plus buses and good street parking. (It always annoys me when north London people say SP is difficult to get to. First, it depends on where you start. Second, Spurs is the worst ground in London to reach.) The CPSC has one train station. It has lots of buses but the street parking is dismal. All of that would need fixing if we were ever to consider moving there.

Can I just add that Anerley, Penge West and Penge East are all within walking distance of CPNSC. It's not that bad by train. Obviously Crystal Palace is the easiest though. Even Sydenham is quite easy to walk to it.

Percy Dalton
21-05-2014, 03:07 PM
Slightly of track but perhaps an option for a quicker refurbishment of Selhurst. Has it been considered or what are the possibilities of Palace moving to CPNSC for one season while Selhurst had a full make over? A few temporary seats at CPNSC would keep the capacity at around the same level as Selhurst thus protecting income while the building work took place. OK the track is a problem, but is it? Could that not be covered with temporary seats thus increasing the capacity further?

I assume this option would have as many objections as moving to CPNSC full time, but if it were possible it would certainly help us improve Selhurst much faster

elgin eagle
21-05-2014, 03:12 PM
Slightly of track but perhaps an option for a quicker refurbishment of Selhurst. Has it been considered or what are the possibilities of Palace moving to CPNSC for one season while Selhurst had a full make over? A few temporary seats at CPNSC would keep the capacity at around the same level as Selhurst thus protecting income while the building work took place. OK the track is a problem, but is it? Could that not be covered with temporary seats thus increasing the capacity further?

I assume this option would have as many objections as moving to CPNSC full time, but if it were possible it would certainly help us improve Selhurst much faster

I don't think its 'premier league ready'. Looks like Selhurst piecemeal, or groundshare at another pl or former pl club.

Norwich_Eagle
21-05-2014, 03:35 PM
Percy Dalton - I suspect that the real issues around going to NSC are not necessarily just down to bums on seats but more the technical aspect of media hosting, away fan segregation, safety and transport. Once you've made all those improvements for one season I suspect it would probably just be easier to build around what we have at Selhurst.

For those who are saying that the transport links to the NSC are not good enough can I just point out - as others have that:

Selhurst Park is served by Thornton Heath (0.7 miles), Selhust (0.5 miles) and Norwood Junction (0.5 miles) and roughly 15 different buses in a triangle from those stations

NSC is served by Crystal Palace (0.2 miles), Anerley (0.9 miles), Penge West (0.6 miles), Penge East (0.9 miles), Sydenham (1 mile) and Gipsy Hill (1 mile) and roughly 20 different buses between those points. There are plenty of different Public Transport options, the only real problem is car parking.

If you extend the Tram Service from Beckenham/Birbeck in and out of Croydon as well you will cover even more people so that cars are not needed at all.

Clapham Grand
22-05-2014, 01:44 PM
It would work if there was a 1 mile exclusion zone on parking (similar to the Emirates)