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Lingy Eagle
01-06-2014, 07:29 PM
Australia 10/11 fav... O'Brian has 2nd fav also looks like Derby could be going back to Ballydoyle again?

pauldrulez
02-06-2014, 06:57 AM
Kingston Hill for me.

Orchestra (another Ballydoyle horse) is massive value as well.

dannyboy1807
02-06-2014, 07:06 AM
Kingston Hill has an inexperienced Group 1 jockey on him.

it's all down to the ground for Australia if it's soft he will be in trouble.

if Ryan Moore chooses Orchestra over Chaucer then that's a big sign.

I like Western Hymn a lot so i'm going to pick him.

Lingy Eagle
02-06-2014, 11:10 AM
The Dante form could be worth following after Grey Gatsby won the Prix du Jockey Club yesterday...

LLCOOLSTEVE
02-06-2014, 06:44 PM
Kingston Hill has an inexperienced Group 1 jockey on him.

it's all down to the ground for Australia if it's soft he will be in trouble.

if Ryan Moore chooses Orchestra over Chaucer then that's a big sign.

I like Western Hymn a lot so i'm going to pick him.

Atzeni is not inexperienced

dannyboy1807
02-06-2014, 06:53 PM
Group 1 races he is.

LLCOOLSTEVE
02-06-2014, 07:13 PM
Hardly, he might have only won 1 (I think) but he has ridden in many of them across Europe and Dubai

LLCOOLSTEVE
02-06-2014, 07:16 PM
actually he has 3 group 1 wins

pauldrulez
03-06-2014, 06:51 AM
I'd pick Atzeni over someone like Jamie Spencer.

Definitely over Joseph O'Brien.

The same combo (Atzeni/Varian) won the RP Trophy on KH last year.

Derby: Kingston Hill/Orchestra
Oaks: Bracelet

L'head Eagle
03-06-2014, 06:56 AM
Don't forget that KH is essentially a Coolmore horse. Not a classic horse IMO. Western Hymn for me.

pauldrulez
03-06-2014, 08:16 AM
The Amato Inn has selected Kingston Hill this year.

https://twitter.com/HonestFrank/status/473736380309577728

JamTheEagle
03-06-2014, 08:23 AM
Having a look forward to the Derby and I do think Kingston Hill is too big at 14s (7/1 in the w/o Australia market is a nice bet too). Doesn't seem ground dependent and ran a good race in the 2000Gs considering.

Western Hymn also interesting but Australia is defo the most likely winner, I personally couldn't back him at those odds.

Still can get 7/1 w/o Australia with Ladbrokes...

pauldrulez
03-06-2014, 08:37 AM
I personally feel Moore will be on Orchestra. He liked him after Chester and has admitted he's never even sat on Geoffrey Chaucer.

I feel the Oaks is more interesting. Will Moore be on Bracelet or Palace? No way that Aidan doesn't let his kid get on Marvellous now that the secret is well and truly out.

Andycol
03-06-2014, 08:50 AM
Don't forget that KH is essentially a Coolmore horse. Not a classic horse IMO. Western Hymn for me.

Yep.
And WH trainer has supplemented Romsdal as well. Fancy WH that little bit more now!

JamTheEagle
03-06-2014, 09:49 AM
Don't forget that KH is essentially a Coolmore horse. Not a classic horse IMO. Western Hymn for me.

He really isn't. Paul is not a part of Coolmore and neither is Varian or the Jarvis team. He's out of Mastercraftsman sure but I wouldn't say he is Coolmore's!

pauldrulez
03-06-2014, 12:00 PM
He really isn't. Paul is not a part of Coolmore and neither is Varian or the Jarvis team. He's out of Mastercraftsman sure but I wouldn't say he is Coolmore's!

I believe it was Sir Henry himself who said that with the horses, it normally pays to look at the dam instead of the sire. Frankel was by Galileo, but bore all the characteristics of Kind, and he never thought Frankel would last the Derby distance, even as a 2yo.

Shamone
03-06-2014, 12:36 PM
Australia drifting out with the heavy rain expected tomorrow. Layed it for 300 at 2.30 and it's already 2.60. Will probably start chipping away now as it slowly rises.

JamTheEagle
03-06-2014, 01:19 PM
I believe it was Sir Henry himself who said that with the horses, it normally pays to look at the dam instead of the sire. Frankel was by Galileo, but bore all the characteristics of Kind, and he never thought Frankel would last the Derby distance, even as a 2yo.

Very true. It is notoriously hard to breed a horse specifically for the Derby trip, part of the reason why I never really get too immersed in the race (I don't really like Epsom anyway) - if there is no value then I move on.

"It's hard to get one to run a mile-and-a-half on the first Saturday in June on a track like this and legitimately belong in the race. There aren't many that do. You go to the sales and there aren't that many horses bred to go a mile-and-a-half. And it's a bold thing to try to breed a Derby horse because you can often end up with a lot of two-mile hurdlers."

Also on the topic of Western Hymn:

"I'm just a little worried about stamina. But don't tell the owner - I don't want to depress him before the race."

pauldrulez
03-06-2014, 01:55 PM
Australia drifting out with the heavy rain expected tomorrow. Layed it for 300 at 2.30 and it's already 2.60. Will probably start chipping away now as it slowly rises.

However, we are now predicted dry weather on Thursday and hotter weather Friday, which will dry it a bit.

I would disagree 100% with the recent description from the clerk of the course as well.

I walked 75% of the course on Saturday morning. From the 1m4f start until the top of the hill, it is very wet and very soft under foot. There are puddles to the sides of some of the rails.

It may have changed, but considering the recent rain, I would be very surprised if it is much past Good, maybe Good to Firm in places on the straight. Even then, I feel it'd need a lot of sun for that to happen.

Shamone
03-06-2014, 03:39 PM
I'll need to lay off before the market closes Thursday at 10am anyway to give me my bank back to play with on Friday. Think it will go out to 2.7-2.8 by lunch tomorrow so I'll do it all then. Looking forward to Friday, but mainly as it's ladies day :-)

LLCOOLSTEVE
03-06-2014, 03:58 PM
Australia wins quite comfortably

pauldrulez
04-06-2014, 06:50 AM
Dreaming the finish to the Oaks and Derby isn't normal, right?

It's obviously not a premonition, because my horses were in the first 3 of each!

dannyboy1807
04-06-2014, 10:16 AM
True Story is another one to think about Kieron Fallon has made a big comeback.

but he is another horse who likes firmer ground.

Lingy Eagle
05-06-2014, 11:54 AM
Snow Sky out of the Derby this morning...shame as living in Lingfield always keen for the Lingfield Derby trial winner to do well. It always amazes me why the top trainers do not run their best horses as Lingfield as it is the only trial near 1 1/2 miles distance (Dante is on 1 1/4) and also the hill and turn into the home straight is like Tattenham Corner...

JamTheEagle
05-06-2014, 12:56 PM
Snow Sky out of the Derby this morning...shame as living in Lingfield always keen for the Lingfield Derby trial winner to do well. It always amazes me why the top trainers do not run their best horses as Lingfield as it is the only trial near 1 1/2 miles distance (Dante is on 1 1/4) and also the hill and turn into the home straight is like Tattenham Corner...

I live here too :).

Shame as usually the last few Lingfield winners have done well.

Lingy Eagle
05-06-2014, 05:16 PM
Small World!!!

Lingy Eagle
07-06-2014, 04:29 PM
Australia wins quite comfortably

You obviously knew something :p