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adrenalin john
07-06-2014, 12:28 PM
We have had the sex-crazed Swede, the wally with the brolly, the out of his depth Keegan, the Napoloenic Italian Crapello and then the media were all set to appoint Harry Redfaceslap until suddenly Hodgson appeared.

I can't see us doing that well at the World Cup, the conditions will be against us. And we simply don't have the defence so the midfield always have to protect them and thus our forwards will be starved of ball and support, however I have been impressed with Hodgson - the results have been good so far and his approach seems dignified and measured.

In contrast to the approach to other world cups, the squad seems to be unified a good mix of ages and is combining the right level of confidence with reality.

I am not yet 'proud of the boys' but for the first time in a while I don't think we will be too embarrassing.

Does anyone now wish we had appointed someone else?

west country boy
07-06-2014, 04:47 PM
"We", John? I thought you were a citizen of the world.

Anyway, I can't say I'm that bothered about Team Ing-er-land, but I have quite a lot of time for Hodgson so hope he does well.

Jono14
07-06-2014, 05:14 PM
I like him, he's making the transition from the 'golden' generation to the new one very well, plays to our strengths and he's not afraid to make big decisions. My favourite England manager.

Kylie_Tracey
08-06-2014, 10:32 AM
I was very much underwhelmed when Woy was appointed and as much as I detest that rubber faced crook I'd have him rather than this idiot who could have relegated Liverpool, hope he is moved on after the WC.

gilesy14
08-06-2014, 10:36 AM
He did well not to laugh in Glenn Hoddle's ballbag-esque face yesterday when Hoddle tried to tell Roy what to do during the break in play on ITV. Cringeworthy beyond belief.

The Omen
08-06-2014, 10:44 AM
I like him, he's making the transition from the 'golden' generation to the new one very well, plays to our strengths and he's not afraid to make big decisions. My favourite England manager.

I agree. He has taken on the job in what is potentially a difficult time when a transition was needed and so far has done excellently.

maestro
08-06-2014, 11:54 AM
Despite being a favourite on here Ive been underwhelmed, I cant see the progression or what the team system is, a few months ago we were player with pacey wingers and now we are totally the opposite with a narrow diamond shape midfield

gadford4th
08-06-2014, 10:30 PM
He's the most articulate manager we've had in decades. I like him a lot.

orp pisshead1
09-06-2014, 12:52 AM
Despite being a favourite on here Ive been underwhelmed, I cant see the progression or what the team system is, a few months ago we were player with pacey wingers and now we are totally the opposite with a narrow diamond shape midfield

Townsend, Walcott and Lennon all injured!.
He's a very clever manager who'll adapt to situations, reminds me of Columbo as in under estimate him at your peril:D.

Vince Hilaire's Afro
09-06-2014, 01:37 AM
I have nothing against him, but I see him more as a manager more at home at a cozy cup of tea club like Fulham than at the likes of England and Liverpool. That said, I hope he does well.

bubbs11
09-06-2014, 03:57 AM
Nice enough guy but decidedly average and not my cup of tea.

I'd say for the first time since the early 90's when Taylor was in charge, there's a reasoned argument to be made that the Palace manager is better than the England one. As great as that sounds for us, that really should never be the case.

I gave up expecting our football authorities to appoint the right man for the right reasons back in the late 70's, when the greatest ever English manager was overlooked due to self preservation being more important to the suits at Lancaster Gate.

Baffled Bob 2
09-06-2014, 06:29 AM
Nice enough guy but decidedly average and not my cup of tea.

I'd say for the first time since the early 90's when Taylor was in charge, there's a reasoned argument to be made that the Palace manager is better than the England one. As great as that sounds for us, that really should never be the case.

I gave up expecting our football authorities to appoint the right man for the right reasons back in the late 70's, when the greatest ever English manager was overlooked due to self preservation being more important to the suits at Lancaster Gate.

In the interests of balance I'd like to suggest Ron Greenwood was an excellent choice. That England team of 1979-82 was one of the best we've ever had.

I'm not sure Clough would have been a great success in international football. Too many egos on the pitch and in the suits.

Kylie_Tracey
09-06-2014, 09:17 AM
Townsend, Walcott and Lennon all injured!.
He's a very clever manager who'll adapt to situations, reminds me of Columbo as in under estimate him at your peril:D.

Townsend and Lennon are no loss, the former being one of the biggest 1 trick ponys we could ever hope to see.

Latvian Eagle
09-06-2014, 09:25 AM
I like Roy and he is doing a decent enough job. He is weedling his way through gradually ousting the has been rather than getting rid of too many at once thus a progressive change over rather than unsettling them too much, Cole this World Cup, Lampard next then I imagine Gerrard and Rooney.

The talent coming through is decent but not excellent so we have to make do right now, but we still have some prospects. Keep up the good work Roy!

pauldrulez
09-06-2014, 09:28 AM
Despite being a favourite on here Ive been underwhelmed, I cant see the progression or what the team system is, a few months ago we were player with pacey wingers and now we are totally the opposite with a narrow diamond shape midfield

Adapting to the conditions...

orp pisshead1
10-06-2014, 03:10 PM
Townsend and Lennon are no loss, the former being one of the biggest 1 trick ponys we could ever hope to see.

Was just answering lack of pace, think Lennon is average with Townsend being half decent player imo.

adrenalin john
10-06-2014, 03:44 PM
Was just answering lack of pace, think Lennon is average with Townsend being half decent player imo.

Walcott however is a big miss

orp pisshead1
10-06-2014, 03:49 PM
Walcott however is a big miss

Absolutely as can play 2 attacking roles and has come on leaps n bounds in recent seasons as he gains experience.
Already looking forward to euros with a lot of decent younger players breaking through shaw, stones( big future for him i think) etc.

David of Kent
10-06-2014, 05:02 PM
I like Roy. Wanted an English manager so happy to have him there

jamie12
10-06-2014, 07:18 PM
"We", John? I thought you were a citizen of the world.

Anyway, I can't say I'm that bothered about Team Ing-er-land, but I have quite a lot of time for Hodgson so hope he does well.
Pretty much this for me.

TheMexicanHorse
10-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Pretty much this for me.

Yep.

Roy seems an old school gent and I just hope whatever happens the gutter press and even worse 'ing-ger-land' fans don't turn on him.

Saying that drove out Sven based on him being one of these horrible foreign lot and he was a world class manager for England so I won't hold my breath.

orp pisshead1
11-06-2014, 01:18 AM
Steve Howard of the sun already been having a few sly digs.

AJ's right boot
11-06-2014, 01:47 AM
Im not that keen on him sadly. I really cant see that we have improved, but infairness he has shit to pick from. But the team doesnt have an identy, i think it needs that. Are we attacking, are we defensive, do we counter attack. I think Hodgson should of stamped his mark on this team by now.

Plus two games before the world cup is about to kick off hes experiment with Milner at RB when there is quality RBs left at home. Not cool.

firesign
11-06-2014, 01:06 PM
a decent man and a decent manager - whether that's enough, we shall see. But I'm not sure there were many credible alternatives.

One positive thing that I sense about Roy (without any insider knoweldge of course) is that the players appear to like and respect him and the 'camp' seems a happier one than previously - again, whether that's enough to make a big difference to the overall performance we shall see.

Stellavista
11-06-2014, 01:22 PM
We'll be punching above our weight if we get out of the group. Anything else is gravy.

Bryan
11-06-2014, 03:19 PM
I think it's very positive that he has Gary Neville to help him. Can't see Neville playing the Phil Neal yes man role and he's no fool from a football/tactical point of view.

bubbs11
11-06-2014, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=Bryan;11783 think it's very positive that he has Gary Neville to help him. Can't see Neville playing the Phil Neal yes man role and he's no fool from a football/tactical point of view.[/QUOTE]

Apparently, Neville has been taking video analysis sessions with the players exactly like he does on Sky Sports.

west country boy
11-06-2014, 04:33 PM
Steve Howard of the sun already been having a few sly digs.He is a cock.

Ruskin Old Boy
15-06-2014, 07:00 AM
A positive news piece on Roy Hodgson. Includes an interview with Steve Kember.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27837059

jone-zee
15-06-2014, 01:45 PM
A positive news piece on Roy Hodgson. Includes an interview with Steve Kember.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27837059

No mention of Carshalton Athletic? ;)

west country boy
19-06-2014, 09:21 PM
Roy seems an old school gent and I just hope whatever happens the gutter press and even worse 'ing-ger-land' fans don't turn on him...I won't hold my breath.Oh well.

Malarkey
19-06-2014, 09:25 PM
Clueless old wanker

jobiinthelastmi
19-06-2014, 09:25 PM
Old wash lady

weltklasse
19-06-2014, 09:28 PM
Clueless old wanker

thats no way to talk about yourself. You claim you are only 20:hi:

Malarkey
19-06-2014, 09:33 PM
thats no way to talk about yourself. You claim you are only 20:hi:

How old are you?

weltklasse
19-06-2014, 09:34 PM
How old are you?

old enough to spot a clueless young wanker when they post!

Malarkey
19-06-2014, 09:36 PM
old enough to spot a clueless young wanker when they post!

Didn't you just imply I was old?

SA Eagle
19-06-2014, 09:44 PM
Old wash lady

You thought of any young players he should've brought through yet?

maestro
19-06-2014, 09:49 PM
Very average manager

Kylie_Tracey
19-06-2014, 09:52 PM
Very average manager

almost destroyed Liverpool, shouldn't have been anywhere near the national team.

jamie12
19-06-2014, 09:53 PM
Always defended Hodgson, really want him to do well and have backed him. But, I'm seriously running out of excuses and patience. Tonight genuinely was poor, take the result out of it as well and we went totally backwards tonight. What happened to the fast, free-flowing, exciting team we saw Saturday? I don't mind losing if it's like that. But reverting to type and bottling the big decision re Rooney, there's no excuse for that.

SeanPalace84
19-06-2014, 09:56 PM
Always defended Hodgson, really want him to do well and have backed him. But, I'm seriously running out of excuses and patience. Tonight genuinely was poor, take the result out of it as well and we went totally backwards tonight. What happened to the fast, free-flowing, exciting team we saw Saturday? I don't mind losing if it's like that. But reverting to type and bottling the big decision re Rooney, there's no excuse for that.

Agreed with you until the Rooney part. He was possibly our best player tonight...which doesn't say much.

maestro
19-06-2014, 09:57 PM
almost destroyed Liverpool, shouldn't have been anywhere near the national team.

Yup

If England want to play attacking football then atleast give it to someone who knows how to play that way.

Frightening to see how he has destroyed a solid defensive unit.

maestro
19-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Agreed with you until the Rooney part. He was possibly our best player tonight...which doesn't say much.

Rooney did play well, he should have started up top, he doesnt have the legs he used to but he does still find the net fairly often.

SA Eagle
19-06-2014, 09:59 PM
Agreed with you until the Rooney part. He was possibly our best player tonight...which doesn't say much.

True.

jamie12
19-06-2014, 10:01 PM
Agreed with you until the Rooney part. He was possibly our best player tonight...which doesn't say much.

I do agree he played well. But, there wasn't the same zip that we saw on Saturday. Sterling was running Italy ragged in the first half and Uruguay have a slow backline, Sterling in that same position really could've caused damage. Instead we put Rooney back there, and everything in the Uruguay end just seemed so lethargic and laboured, we were nowhere near as threatening tonight as we were Saturday

Danny boy
19-06-2014, 10:02 PM
A manager who is supposed to get teams organised and well drilled yet England look vulnerable every time a team has an attack....

jamie12
19-06-2014, 10:03 PM
Rooney did play well, he should have started up top, he doesnt have the legs he used to but he does still find the net fairly often.Agree with this. If you are to start Rooney, it needs to be up top where he can do damage. Not in the hole slowing things down and getting frustrated.

SeanPalace84
19-06-2014, 10:07 PM
I do agree he played well. But, there wasn't the same zip that we saw on Saturday. Sterling was running Italy ragged in the first half and Uruguay have a slow backline, Sterling in that same position really could've caused damage. Instead we put Rooney back there, and everything in the Uruguay end just seemed so lethargic and laboured, we were nowhere near as threatening tonight as we were Saturday

I see your point there although its impossible to say if we would have played the same if Sterling played in the same position again. We could have changed formation a bit to suit but who knows. At the end of the day though I do feel a bit let down by Hodgson and I have supported him quite a bit. Could be that the team just wasn't good enough but on paper I still think that's an excuse.

Langers
19-06-2014, 10:07 PM
The players bottled it tonight not Roy - he wouldn't have sent them out there to hoof it, not press the ball and switch off at the back - he is a good manager with an honest bunch of players that lack top quality and leadership on the pitch.

Without a huge amount of luck we were always going to be up against it

Better luck next time Roy

Kylie_Tracey
19-06-2014, 10:10 PM
The players bottled it tonight not Roy - he wouldn't have sent them out there to hoof it, not press the ball and switch off at the back - he is a good manager with an honest bunch of players that lack top quality and leadership on the pitch.

Without a huge amount of luck we were always going to be up against it

Better luck next time Roy

do we have to have this idiot for another 4 years? FFS!

Langers
19-06-2014, 10:21 PM
do we have to have this idiot for another 4 years? FFS!

Another 2 years maximum - I see no alternative and compared to Sven and Capello he's a breath of fresh air - the players we've got should qualify for the euros but I can't see who's going to replace Gerrard as captain

We are going to need luck to beat the top teams regardless of whether Roy is manager

Kylie_Tracey
19-06-2014, 10:24 PM
Another 2 years maximum - I see no alternative and compared to Sven and Capello he's a breath of fresh air - the players we've got should qualify for the euros but I can't see who's going to replace Gerrard as captain

We are going to need luck to beat the top teams regardless of whether Roy is manager

Sven was ok should have gone after the Euros 04 though

Stinger1
19-06-2014, 10:26 PM
The players bottled it tonight not Roy - he wouldn't have sent them out there to hoof it, not press the ball and switch off at the back - he is a good manager with an honest bunch of players that lack top quality and leadership on the pitch.

Without a huge amount of luck we were always going to be up against it

Better luck next time Roy

No, Roy bottled it. The one big decision he had to make for this tournament was Rooney or Sturridge up top and he bottled it and played both. Rooney is not better in the 'number 10' role than Barkley or Sterling. He can do a job there but he's a goalscorer and should play close to goal or not at all.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
19-06-2014, 10:29 PM
Defensive selection and organisation was just too poor for me. Terry and Cole should have been in the side but even then the back 4 we had needed to do better than that if organised well. Looked so poor.

maestro
19-06-2014, 10:34 PM
Defensive selection and organisation was just too poor for me. Terry and Cole should have been in the side but even then the back 4 we had needed to do better than that if organised well. Looked so poor.

Totally agree, most un-England like aswell, usually we are pretty solid.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
19-06-2014, 10:40 PM
Totally agree, most un-England like aswell, usually we are pretty solid.

Did Roy get carried away by all the press about playing all the young (mostly attacking) players? I certainly think so. Took his eye off the solidity and organisation that you need as well.

maestro
19-06-2014, 10:45 PM
Did Roy get carried away by all the press about playing all the young (mostly attacking) players? I certainly think so. Took his eye off the solidity and organisation that you need as well.

I think he saw the success of liverpool and tried to repeat it but without Suarez we looked half as good going forward and still as dodgy as liverpool at the back.

Imo we should have played in a simaular way to how Pulis sets us up, defend in numbers and break forward on the counter with the pace England have.

We didnt even play with any width which didnt help.

Langers
19-06-2014, 10:46 PM
No, Roy bottled it. The one big decision he had to make for this tournament was Rooney or Sturridge up top and he bottled it and played both. Rooney is not better in the 'number 10' role than Barkley or Sterling. He can do a job there but he's a goalscorer and should play close to goal or not at all.

I agree with your Rooney comment as I regard him as a centre forward but Sturridge looks too good to leave out. I appreciate that Roy is paid a lot to make difficult decisions but hindsight is something he lacks.

I just thought the players started poorly and never played with pace - I think the pressure got to them ... and Gerrard is a limited captain

lucky_181
19-06-2014, 10:48 PM
Totally agree, most un-England like aswell, usually we are pretty solid.

Blimey i wanted to post earlier we should have taken Terry and Cole but daren't for fear of being blasted ...at least then with Cahill you had three guys who play together at the back. Hate to say it Steven Gerrard's no defensive midfielder at this level .

All very poor , another WC slips by and to say will played well but went out in the opening round just don't fly with me. Tony Pullis would have got us out of the group stage .

maestro
19-06-2014, 10:49 PM
I agree with your Rooney comment as I regard him as a centre forward but Sturridge looks too good to leave out. I appreciate that Roy is paid a lot to make difficult decisions but hindsight is something he lacks.

I just thought the players started poorly and never played with pace - I think the pressure got to them ... and Gerrard is a limited captain

Sturridge was dog shit tonight, couldnt keep hold the ball, never got on the end of any crosses, he played more like a number 10 than a striker, at times it looked as though England were playing without anyone up top we were so weak through the centre.

Sturridge did his best work outside the box and should have played off Rooney not the other way round.

Stinger1
19-06-2014, 10:49 PM
I think he saw the success of liverpool and tried to repeat it but without Suarez we looked half as good going forward and still as dodgy as liverpool at the back.

Imo we should have played in a simaular way to how Pulis sets us up, defend in numbers and break forward on the counter with the pace England have.

We didnt even play with any width which didnt help.

I don't think so, Liverpool played a diamond in midfield or 4-3-3. We played 4-4-2.

Billyd
19-06-2014, 10:50 PM
Always defended Hodgson, really want him to do well and have backed him. But, I'm seriously running out of excuses and patience. Tonight genuinely was poor, take the result out of it as well and we went totally backwards tonight. What happened to the fast, free-flowing, exciting team we saw Saturday? I don't mind losing if it's like that. But reverting to type and bottling the big decision re Rooney, there's no excuse for that.

Apart from the Rooney bit. I agree.

Like Roy and want him to do well, but hes made errors in big games. Think both Italy and Uruguay beat us tactically.

Also we needed Cole and Terry at this World Cup.

SA Eagle
19-06-2014, 10:56 PM
Sturridge was dog shit tonight, couldnt keep hold the ball, never got on the end of any crosses, he played more like a number 10 than a striker, at times it looked as though England were playing without anyone up top we were so weak through the centre.

Sturridge did his best work outside the box and should have played off Rooney not the other way round.

Sturridge certainly isn't a 'number 10', he is a striker or nothing. Rooney isn't first choice striker for his club, that's Van Persie, Rooney plays off him, rarely the other way round.

Stinger1
19-06-2014, 10:57 PM
I agree with your Rooney comment as I regard him as a centre forward but Sturridge looks too good to leave out. I appreciate that Roy is paid a lot to make difficult decisions but hindsight is something he lacks.

I just thought the players started poorly and never played with pace - I think the pressure got to them ... and Gerrard is a limited captain

Well then, play Rooney or Sturridge for 60 minutes and then bring the other one on. If we played 4-3-3 and had more of a midfielder in the 'number 10' role who was comfortable at receiving the ball under pressure (Barkely, Sterling) we could of fed the wingers earlier. Rooney's control and ability to turn isn't good enough. Sterling was our best player against Italy playing in the hole and yet, we put him out on the wing the next game because Roy has no bottle and can't bring himself to drop Rooney or Sturridge.

Halftime Gold
19-06-2014, 11:04 PM
Sturridge wasn't great tonight and I think Wellbeck is better suited to playing opponents who are going to have more possession than us but ultimately we lost this match at the back, more specifically Gerrard, Henderson, Johnson and Baines underperformed badly once again with Hart looking twitchy as ever behind them. On another night we could have scored 2-3 goals, problem is on another night they could have scored 3-4 goals.

That we had such clear problems at the back vs the Italians and that Hodgson did nothing to try and cure them probably should cost him his job unless we get though by some kind of freak, even then it hardly fills me with confidence for the future.

Drew Peacock
19-06-2014, 11:40 PM
It's like a top mechanic with only a shagged old screwdriver to use to fix a clutch. Keep the bloke and build

orp pisshead1
19-06-2014, 11:44 PM
Sturridge was dog shit tonight, couldnt keep hold the ball, never got on the end of any crosses, he played more like a number 10 than a striker, at times it looked as though England were playing without anyone up top we were so weak through the centre.

Sturridge did his best work outside the box and should have played off Rooney not the other way round.

Exactly how I saw it mate, thought Rooney did well tonight especially 2nd half as he and Barkley started opening up their midfield/defence.

Timbo
20-06-2014, 02:12 AM
I don't think so, Liverpool played a diamond in midfield or 4-3-3. We played 4-4-2.

Eh? I think your tactical advisor is missing the point. Feck "Diamonds" and keep the point simpler, the difference he is talking about is playing like Palace on the counter attack with a strong organized defence, ......or losing like England do

Timbo
20-06-2014, 02:15 AM
It's like a top mechanic with only a shagged old screwdriver to use to fix a clutch. Keep the bloke and build

Top mechanic's bwoy morelike..........Nah, lets just get a decent mechanic with a proper toolbox. As regards the existing clutch, lets buy a top quality automatic from the Premier League cabbage

Timbo
20-06-2014, 02:20 AM
The players bottled it tonight not Roy - he wouldn't have sent them out there to hoof it, not press the ball and switch off at the back - he is a good manager with an honest bunch of players that lack top quality and leadership on the pitch.

Without a huge amount of luck we were always going to be up against it

Better luck next time Roy

Yeah, Roy really had them motivated and up for this one.....

Timbo
20-06-2014, 02:24 AM
Blimey i wanted to post earlier we should have taken Terry and Cole but daren't for fear of being blasted ...at least then with Cahill you had three guys who play together at the back. Hate to say it Steven Gerrard's no defensive midfielder at this level .

All very poor , another WC slips by and to say will played well but went out in the opening round just don't fly with me. Tony Pullis would have got us out of the group stage .

If only you had been the manager...........

west country boy
20-06-2014, 03:40 AM
Blimey i wanted to post earlier we should have taken Terry and Cole but daren't for fear of being blasted ...at least then with Cahill you had three guys who play together at the back.Except that Cole didn't play that much last season. Also, just imagine the outcry (not just on here) if Hodgson had tried to recall that arsehole Terry.

917L
20-06-2014, 06:12 AM
Except that Cole didn't play that much last season. Also, just imagine the outcry (not just on here) if Hodgson had tried to recall that arsehole Terry.

Agree abiout Terry, but it was clear in Coles spparearances that he was still the best English left back, and obbiously should have gone as first choice

Baines is good going forward, like Johnson, but neither can defend to a decent standard (both look ok for their clubs as they spend most of their time in the opposition half, but look what Yannick did to both of them when on the back foot, for instance)

Add in the fact the squad appeared youthful and exciting, to a degree, but Hodgson chose to leave the excitement on the bench until it was too late in both games

Too safe

Halftime Gold
20-06-2014, 06:34 AM
The main thing that may save Roy I'd say is that being critical of England at this WC means being critical of Liverpool which most of the media are incapable of doing.

I see Danny Murphy getting one in last night on the BBC claiming Gerrard wasn't to blame for that goal. :rolleyes:

T.C.
20-06-2014, 06:35 AM
Chris Waddle had it spot on.

You need to build a team and not just play the players at the top clubs and hope that will work - it doesn't. We have a very limited number of quality English players but an effective team can be built providing you have the right players with the right attitude as we saw at Palace last year.

Too many English players make up the numbers in the Premier League and look better because of their teammates.

Hodgson has just continued this failed way of running the England team.

Until we can find a manager who is prepared to make big decisions then nothing will change

orp pisshead1
20-06-2014, 07:19 AM
On plus side poor euro group means we can bring in the like of shaw, stones, Flanagan , clyne. Hopefully Gerrard will retire due to club duty.

McpfcS
20-06-2014, 07:23 AM
Get rid

maestro
20-06-2014, 08:11 AM
What annoys me is he had a log time to plan this team and in the first game we have 2 centre forwards in Rooney and Wellbeck playing on the wings!

Couldnt he see that that team was suspect defensively?

Chobham Eagle
20-06-2014, 08:15 AM
Apart from the Rooney bit. I agree.

Like Roy and want him to do well, but hes made errors in big games. Think both Italy and Uruguay beat us tactically.

Also we needed Cole and Terry at this World Cup.

Trouble is, if Terry had been playing, I'd probably have been supporting Uruguay.

SA Eagle
20-06-2014, 08:19 AM
Chris Waddle had it spot on.

You need to build a team and not just play the players at the top clubs and hope that will work - it doesn't. We have a very limited number of quality English players but an effective team can be built providing you have the right players with the right attitude as we saw at Palace last year.

Too many English players make up the numbers in the Premier League and look better because of their teammates.

Hodgson has just continued this failed way of running the England team.

Until we can find a manager who is prepared to make big decisions then nothing will change

We also need the manager to be bloody minded enough to ignore the constant clamour to play the latest 'in form' player and stick to building his team. We never build a team because successive managers have bent to media led public pressure to play players based on a limited number of performances.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 10:49 AM
Trouble is, if Terry had been playing, I'd probably have been supporting Uruguay.

Why?

Will you not support any footballer who has made an error? Puncheon for example?

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 10:50 AM
Why?

Will you not support any footballer who has made an error? Puncheon for example?

He's morally reprehensible on many levels

would rather lose without him than win with him. He should not be representing our country.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 10:52 AM
He's morally reprehensible on many levels

would rather lose without him than win with him. He should not be representing our country.

I dont like him either, but then I dont like quite a few of the players representing the country. I want the best team that can win games. Its not a personality contest.

Do you support Puncheon when he plays for Palace?

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 10:52 AM
We also need the manager to be bloody minded enough to ignore the constant clamour to play the latest 'in form' player and stick to building his team. We never build a team because successive managers have bent to media led public pressure to play players based on a limited number of performances.

Pretty much. Picking players in form is a false road to go down.

Players are chosen from the big clubs because, shockingly enough, the best players are at those clubs.

From this World Cup, the changes should be the retirement of Gerrard, Cahill should have a new partner, plus a RB and Shaw in at left back. And let them grow and develop and don't, as you say, fall into the clamour the include the flavour of the month.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 10:53 AM
I dont like him either, but then I dont like quite a few of the players representing the country. I want the best team that can win games. Its not a personality contest.

Do you support Puncheon when he plays for Palace?

It's not about liking him or not. His actions speak about who he is, and who he is should not be representing a country.

Puncheon is not comparable.

Halftime Gold
20-06-2014, 10:58 AM
Honestly I don't see that Terry would have been any better, remember Sweden in 2012 or the Germans in 2010? when he was playing in an open game he looked very vulnerable indeed.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:02 AM
It's not about liking him or not. His actions speak about who he is, and who he is should not be representing a country.

Puncheon is not comparable.

The guy is a total bellend (had numerous affairs, said the n word etc) but as far as im aware never been prosecuted for an actual criminal offence. Unlike many many footballers.

I dont think one can take some sort of stance with Terry and not apply it to others who are equally scum but in other walks of life or things they have done.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:04 AM
The guy is a total bellend (had numerous affairs, said the n word etc) but as far as im aware never been prosecuted for an actual criminal offence. Unlike many many footballers.

I dont think one can take some sort of stance with Terry no apply it to others who are equally scum but in other walks of life or things they have done.

You’re looking at what Terry has done very narrowly.

In other walks of life:

1 – people are not representing their country

2 - would get sacked for saying “****ing black c**t” at work, whatever the context.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:08 AM
You’re looking at what Terry has done very narrowly.

In other walks of life:

1 – people are not representing their country

2 - would get sacked for saying “****ing black c**t” at work, whatever the context.

I meant other footballers. Youve got a stance vs Terry (rightly so maybe) but not applying it to other footballers.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:09 AM
2 - would get sacked for saying “****ing black c**t” at work, whatever the context.


Anton Ferdinand said it also. Should also get sacked by that logic.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:12 AM
Anton Ferdinand said it also. Should also get sacked by that logic.

Not even sure that is worthy of a response.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:12 AM
I meant other footballers. Youve got a stance vs Terry (rightly so maybe) but not applying it to other footballers.

What other footballers have done exactly what Terry has done?

Asagaya_Eagle
20-06-2014, 11:15 AM
The guy is a total bellend (had numerous affairs, said the n word etc) but as far as im aware never been prosecuted for an actual criminal offence. Unlike many many footballers.

Many, many others? I can think of a few, but not that many.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:15 AM
Not even sure that is worthy of a response.

Why can only people of a certain race say certain words then?

If its wrong to say in any context, its wrong said by anyone.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:16 AM
What other footballers have done exactly what Terry has done?

Is what Terry has done wrong, more than say, robbing a lady for example?

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:18 AM
Why can only people of a certain race say certain words then?

My post didn’t say it was.

If its wrong to say in any context, its wrong said by anyone.

Clearly I was referring to context as an aggressor, not the person the comment is said to. It’s quite simple. But nice fishing.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:19 AM
Is what Terry has done wrong, more than say, robbing a lady for example?

Depends how you view world history I guess.

Halftime Gold
20-06-2014, 11:22 AM
I'd have Terry playing for England before I'd have Lee Hughes or any other serious criminal but that's hardly a good defence.

I'd point out as well that he was still played in euro 2012 even when these events were going on whilst Ferdinands brother was dropped, nonsense decision that for me as Rio whilst arguebly getting past it now was always the far superior defender and didn't need us to defend deep to look comfortable.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:27 AM
My post didn’t say it was.



Clearly I was referring to context as an aggressor, not the person the comment is said to. It’s quite simple. But nice fishing.


But it was proven not to be in the context of an aggressor, he was repeating words he was accused of. And completely proven so. Not fishing at all.

Anyway this is going massively off topic. More than happy for Terry not to play for England again, and he wont. Just wondering why you supported other football guilty of wrong doings, but if its important to you more than other wrong doings then fair enough, nothing wrong with that.

Just as im sure many women victims of a robbing wouldn't support any player guilty of that for example.

CPFC_DAVE77
20-06-2014, 11:30 AM
I bet Roy is really appreciate of Arsenal's contribution to this World Cup.

One never fit central midfielder in the squad from one of our most expensive clubs.

nottsunieagle
20-06-2014, 11:33 AM
Lot of revisionism here. Yes in hindsight should have taken Cole, but everyone applauded Roy for going with younger generation, and Cole had only played 10 times this year.

Defence is patently not up to it, 3 of the back 4 aren't good enough, but Stones is a couple of years away from stepping up.

Back Roy. We're gonna lose Gerrard and Lampard, and we can now properly rebuild. But let's be realistic, we miss Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, Woodgate, King etc, and until we get a better defence we're not going to compete at this level.

Chocky
20-06-2014, 11:34 AM
Hodgson has asked for the game to be replayed. Gerard told Suarez the team before Hodgson even announced it.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:35 AM
Depends how you view world history I guess.

If I was to read through your previous posts towards the back end of last season I really hope I dont find any where you are supporting Liverpool or 'hope' they win the title......Not while Suarez is there.....

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:37 AM
Lot of revisionism here. Yes in hindsight should have taken Cole, but everyone applauded Roy for going with younger generation, and Cole had only played 10 times this year.

Defence is patently not up to it, 3 of the back 4 aren't good enough, but Stones is a couple of years away from stepping up.

Back Roy. We're gonna lose Gerrard and Lampard, and we can now properly rebuild. But let's be realistic, we miss Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, Woodgate, King etc, and until we get a better defence we're not going to compete at this level.

My sympathy I have with Roy is he really didnt have much to chose from defensively. Poorest selection to chose from in my life time. Although would have liked to have seen Curtis Davies go.

nottsunieagle
20-06-2014, 11:39 AM
My sympathy I have with Roy is he really didnt have much to chose from defensively. Poorest selection to chose from in my life time. Although would have liked to have seen Curtis Davies go.

Yes I thought he should have gone too, although looking at how Jagielka did I have a feeling he wouldn't have stepped up either.

El Aguila
20-06-2014, 11:40 AM
Back Roy. He's done well bringing in new players up front, now he should finish the job.
I wonder if it might be a good idea to bring say, Lampard, straight into the England set up with a view to him taking over after the next Euros.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:46 AM
But it was proven not to be in the context of an aggressor, he was repeating words he was accused of. And completely proven so. Not fishing at all.

Anyway this is going massively off topic. More than happy for Terry not to play for England again, and he wont. Just wondering why you supported other football guilty of wrong doings, but if its important to you more than other wrong doings then fair enough, nothing wrong with that.

Just as im sure many women victims of a robbing wouldn't support any player guilty of that for example.

Nuances and subtext

If he denied saying a phrase he knew was offensive, why say the whole phrase?

And it’s not just for that. There was previous with Ledley King – look at the fall out from that in the following England squad.

That’s before we get to his many other indiscretions.

The man, used loosely, belongs nowhere near the team to represent this nation.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 11:48 AM
If I was to read through your previous posts towards the back end of last season I really hope I dont find any where you are supporting Liverpool or 'hope' they win the title......Not while Suarez is there.....

I may have rather they won the league than Chelsea or Manchester City.

I also find comparing Suarez and Terry a bit of a stretch. One made (and paid for in many ways) an idiotic racist comment. The other has that sort of thing running through his character.

But it's OK - you can say you disagree with Terry but then find reasons to defend him. Much like you can find reasons to dislike UKIP but find reasons for their support.

JamTheEagle
20-06-2014, 11:57 AM
I still probably will back him but we looked clueless last night. Gerrard was awful in the Italy game, that was obvious for all to see - yet he still somehow managed to turn out a worse performance and play the entire 90 mins which I find bewildering. He offered absolutely nothing all game and the writing was on the wall for him when he bottled a heading contest with Suarez in about the 10th minute.

Can't really forgive Roy for picking him again after Italy.

Bryan
20-06-2014, 11:58 AM
Lot of revisionism here. Yes in hindsight should have taken Cole, but everyone applauded Roy for going with younger generation, and Cole had only played 10 times this year.

Baines is 29, he'll be the same age as Cole is now at the next world cup.

That specific decision I sill don't get.

Also, to me it looked like men v boys last night. England got bullied off the ball so we needed a few players like Cole to settle things down and restore some compusure. I think that was what was most lacking last night.

Hope we are still playing for something on Tuesday.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 11:58 AM
But it's OK - you can say you disagree with Terry but then find reasons to defend him..


Please quote where I actually 'defend' Terry.

Anyway thanks for clarifying you would want England to lose with Terry in the team but wanted Liverpool to win with Suarez in the team. One is English.

AndyStreet
20-06-2014, 12:01 PM
But it was proven not to be in the context of an aggressor, he was repeating words he was accused of. And completely proven so. Not fishing at all.
That is not what the judgment said, and certainly isn't what the civil case found.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 12:01 PM
Please quote where I actually 'defend' Terry.

Anyway thanks for clarifying you would want England to lose with Terry in the team but wanted Liverpool to win with Suarez in the team. One is English.

I support England.

I had a preference for Liverpool over the other title challengers - that is not the same as supporting.

Terry, if he plays for England, would be representing me. Suarez never represents me.

So yes, I care more about what Terry does/says than Suarez.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 12:02 PM
That is not what the judgment said, and certainly isn't what the civil case found.

Facts? Whatever next

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/oct/05/john-terry-judgment-commission

Billyd
20-06-2014, 12:08 PM
Facts? Whatever next

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/oct/05/john-terry-judgment-commission

Fair enough. Apologies on that count. Had only looked at the dropped criminal case.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 12:09 PM
I had a preference for Liverpool over the other title challengers - that is not the same as supporting.




Even with a racist in the side?

Thats fine but just as picking up on hypocrisy (in my opinion) is not defending something.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 12:13 PM
Fair enough. Apologies on that count. Had only looked at the dropped criminal case.

It was not dropped.

It was a reluctant not guilty - look at how the witnesses are described (Ferdinand credible, Terry unwilling)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9398132/John-Terry-found-not-guilty-of-racism-the-verdict-in-full.html

Billyd
20-06-2014, 12:14 PM
To be fair reading that article and others I agree I am being far too lenient on Terry.

kolinkins
20-06-2014, 12:14 PM
Even with a racist in the side?

Thats fine but just as picking up on hypocrisy (in my opinion) is not defending something.

It's not hypocrisy. I have told you why they are different.

You think Terry should be picked despite his obvious character - that's fine, it's your opinion.

917L
20-06-2014, 12:28 PM
We also need the manager to be bloody minded enough to ignore the constant clamour to play the latest 'in form' player and stick to building his team. We never build a team because successive managers have bent to media led public pressure to play players based on a limited number of performances.

Problem with not playing 'form' players is that you replace them with out of form or never good enough players from the big clubs

See Smalling, Jones, Wellbeck and Lampard for starters in this squad

Yet Davis and Huddlestone didnt make the squad for instance

Baines is not good enough to replace Cole (something I and others stated well before the tournament) and just meant we had two full backs who cant defend instead of one

SA Eagle
20-06-2014, 12:37 PM
Problem with not playing 'form' players is that you replace them with out of form or never good enough players from the big clubs

See Smalling, Jones, Wellbeck and Lampard for starters in this squad

Yet Davis and Huddlestone didnt make the squad for instance

Baines is not good enough to replace Cole (something I and others stated well before the tournament) and just meant we had two full backs who cant defend instead of one

What actually happens though, is that we start building a team that shows signs of being decent, then suddenly a media favourite puts in a few good performances and there is a clamour for him to get picked; eventually he gets picked and he needs to bedded into the team, so the team stays in development; then once this player is bedded in a new media favourite appears and it all starts again. The result is that we remain a team in transition and development without ever developing into a finished article.

Palestinian
20-06-2014, 12:42 PM
Lot of revisionism here. Yes in hindsight should have taken Cole, but everyone applauded Roy for going with younger generation, and Cole had only played 10 times this year.

Defence is patently not up to it, 3 of the back 4 aren't good enough, but Stones is a couple of years away from stepping up.

Back Roy. We're gonna lose Gerrard and Lampard, and we can now properly rebuild. But let's be realistic, we miss Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, Woodgate, King etc, and until we get a better defence we're not going to compete at this level.

A good summary - is the right man for the job but the quality of the hand he has been dealt really isn't a very good one. The 1st Uruguay goal summed it all up for me - we had four players running back to defend having to cope with one, albeit genuinely world class forward, and yet we horribly messed it up as three were ball watching and one was completely outsmarted by Suarez's movement.

There isn't anyone obvious that is shouting 'me, me, me, I'm genuinely better than those playing' to replace any of the defence though particualrly in the centre.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 12:53 PM
It's not hypocrisy. I have told you why they are different.

You think Terry should be picked despite his obvious character - that's fine, it's your opinion.

I think it is. If its that strong an issue for you that you'd want your side to lose. Im surprised you want another side you dont support to win with Suarez in it at all. But despite his obvious character thats fine, its your opinion.

I admit that I was too lenient on Terry, and hadnt read the civil case at all. Therefore I agree he shouldnt be playing for England. But id also never support Liverpool and Suarez in anything either.

Billyd
20-06-2014, 12:55 PM
Problem with not playing 'form' players is that you replace them with out of form or never good enough players from the big clubs

See Smalling, Jones, Wellbeck and Lampard for starters in this squad

Yet Davis and Huddlestone didnt make the squad for instance

Baines is not good enough to replace Cole (something I and others stated well before the tournament) and just meant we had two full backs who cant defend instead of one

I can see the benefit of a Lampard, and Wellbeck had a decent international record. Its the choices of Smalling and Jones that were more puzzling. No form and not really experienced either. Might as well have taken form in Davies etc.

Either way we simply arent good enough at the moment.

Chobham Eagle
20-06-2014, 01:46 PM
Why?

Will you not support any footballer who has made an error? Puncheon for example?

I'm not sure just what sort of a comparison you're trying to make here.

Santos-er
20-06-2014, 06:24 PM
A bit of team spirit and getting your tactics right gets better results than mediocre Premier League players at "big" teams can. That's why Costa Rica have 6 points and we're going home.