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pauldrulez
18-06-2014, 09:43 PM
With the end of one Spanish golden generation, is it fair to say that the Spanish rebuilding job is a hell of a lot easier and quicker than the one that Germany went through 4-6 years ago.

De Gea, Azpilicueta, Alves, Thiago, Martinez, Koke, Isco and a fully fit Diego Costa would make for a decent spine!

They'll be a nice value bet for the Euros.

GreatGonzo
18-06-2014, 09:51 PM
Xavi, Iniesta have been integral to how they have played and the game has again moved forward and you have to question if they can return to the very top of the game immediately. They have some very good players without a doubt but so do many of the top nations in Europe and the world.

For all the 'Spanish way' it is interesting that it is the Van Gaal way more than anything. The Spain team that was all conquering was born out of La Masia which was set up in the same way as the Ajax team in the 90s. It will be interesting to see how they develop over the next 2-4 years.

El Aguila
18-06-2014, 11:04 PM
Really, what rot. Even more than usual.

They'll always have good young players. They need to find another Puyol, and another Luis Aragonés.

Chocky
19-06-2014, 09:24 AM
They need to get rid of that big headed wanker Casillas as well. WTF was he doing playing in the World Cup when he has only played 2 games in La Liga all season?

davematt
19-06-2014, 09:36 AM
For me, and Paul knows I’ve said this already on Twitter and Facebook, the biggest challenge will be replacing arguably the greatest Spanish player of all time, which is Xavi.

He has been the centre piece for both the success of Barcelona and Spain, and their decline in performance and success has coincided with his decline as a player.

It’s hard to just say that Koke and Thiago Alcantara can come in and take his place, as as much as they are two wonderfully gifted players, they are not at the level of Xavi. He was a complete one off and was the perfection of Tiki Taka. Incredible in tight spaces and circulating the ball at speed, but also leading the midfield (and team) in their nonstop pressing and ability to ‘Hunt in Packs’.

Spain will be back with a new look, slightly younger and fresh team in Euro 2016 and will be a strong contender. But every era has to come to an end, and this era lead by the great Xavi has sadly come to that.

CharlieCPFC
19-06-2014, 09:44 AM
For me, and Paul knows I’ve said this already on Twitter and Facebook, the biggest challenge will be replacing arguably the greatest Spanish of all time, which is Xavi.

He has been the centre piece for both the success of Barcelona and Spain, and their decline in performance and success has coincided with his decline as a player.

It’s hard to just say that Koke and Thiago Alcantara can come in and take his place, as as much as they are two wonderfully gifted players, they are not at the level of Xavi. He was a complete one off and was the perfection of Tiki Taka. Incredible in tight spaces and circulating the ball at speed, but also leading the midfield (and team) in their nonstop pressing and ability to ‘Hunt in Packs’.

Spain will be back with a new look, slightly younger and fresh team in Euro 2016 and will be a strong contender. But every era has to come to an end, and this era lead by the great Xavi has sadly come to that.

This post sums it up very well.

Xavi was without doubt the complete player for their Tika Taka philosophy over the years, and it's no co-incidence to see both Barcelona and Spain decline as teams recently.

But in my opinion it's nothing to worry about and panic for Spain, they still produce top quality players. It's more as Dave says the end of an era rather than the end of a Footballing powerhouse nation Spain is. Because you can bet that in 2016 they will be a force again.

The only thing I would say they did lack last night was a bit of pace.

kolinkins
19-06-2014, 09:47 AM
Xavi wasn't the player at 20-22 that he developed in to. So why expect the likes of Koke to be ready to take over already?

davematt
19-06-2014, 10:07 AM
Xavi wasn't the player at 20-22 that he developed in to. So why expect the likes of Koke to be ready to take over already?

To be honest, Thiago is more of a ready made replacement. There is a reason why Pep identified him as his Number One Target as soon as he got the job at Bayern and why he is not as reluctant as every other team in the world would be in potentially losing Toni Kroos.

Vince Hilaire's Afro
19-06-2014, 10:24 AM
I don't think it's just age that's done it for Spain. Defending champions rarely do well at World Cups, and you have to wonder if these teams who have done it all really have the hunger of their competitors. The Netherlands, in contrast, really looked like they were fired up against Spain, who looked pedestrian.

Skin Up
19-06-2014, 11:11 AM
It'll take a lot for them to bounce back psychologically. At both club and country level these blokes have been used to winning convincingly the majority of the time for the past 6 years. Now they've been humiliated for the first time in their lives at mid-career level for a lot of them.

MasterYoda
19-06-2014, 11:45 AM
Mentioned it on the match thread - can any of this collapse be put down to the lack of Eufemiano Fuentes on the medical staff. He seemed pretty convinced that he made a big difference to them.

"If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup"

PALACEFAN
19-06-2014, 12:02 PM
For me, and Paul knows I’ve said this already on Twitter and Facebook, the biggest challenge will be replacing arguably the greatest Spanish player of all time, which is Xavi.

He has been the centre piece for both the success of Barcelona and Spain, and their decline in performance and success has coincided with his decline as a player.

It’s hard to just say that Koke and Thiago Alcantara can come in and take his place, as as much as they are two wonderfully gifted players, they are not at the level of Xavi. He was a complete one off and was the perfection of Tiki Taka. Incredible in tight spaces and circulating the ball at speed, but also leading the midfield (and team) in their nonstop pressing and ability to ‘Hunt in Packs’.

Spain will be back with a new look, slightly younger and fresh team in Euro 2016 and will be a strong contender. But every era has to come to an end, and this era lead by the great Xavi has sadly come to that.

I'd agree with that.

GreatGonzo
19-06-2014, 12:35 PM
They are taking it seriously!

King Felipe VI has called for "a new Spain that we will build together" after being proclaimed head of state in a ceremony in parliament.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27918094

Dave
19-06-2014, 12:38 PM
For me, and Paul knows I’ve said this already on Twitter and Facebook, the biggest challenge will be replacing arguably the greatest Spanish player of all time, which is Xavi.

He has been the centre piece for both the success of Barcelona and Spain, and their decline in performance and success has coincided with his decline as a player.

It’s hard to just say that Koke and Thiago Alcantara can come in and take his place, as as much as they are two wonderfully gifted players, they are not at the level of Xavi. He was a complete one off and was the perfection of Tiki Taka. Incredible in tight spaces and circulating the ball at speed, but also leading the midfield (and team) in their nonstop pressing and ability to ‘Hunt in Packs’.

Spain will be back with a new look, slightly younger and fresh team in Euro 2016 and will be a strong contender. But every era has to come to an end, and this era lead by the great Xavi has sadly come to that.

Nothing to do with players, football at the highest level has moved on. BCN and Spain are stuck with tiqui-taca - found out.

hilairehair
19-06-2014, 01:06 PM
BCN and Spain are stuck with tiqui-taca - found out.

Except Spain haven't really played tikki takka, not in this tournament anyway, unless its a version so bad and sloppy its doesn't look like it.

Stand by for lots of revisionist autopsies of this Spain team by yer Savages/Murphys too. All of whom will mistake playing a high line and having an organised defence with 'passion/grit/desire' etc in order to make a hollow argument that England can win the thing.

sheepy
19-06-2014, 01:17 PM
Silva scores from his one on one against the Netherlands with the score at 1-0 and they come through that with a win and probably make the semis.

Playing casillas in the second game was a mistake, Alonso doesn't look like he's got the legs to be a starter against high tempo teams and costa doesn't look match fit (why on earth did they take Torres over Negredo????!)

Considering we just had an all Spanish champions league final and a catalogue of managerial mistakes (coupled with a bit of misfortune) leading to their early exit, my hunch is that Spain will be fine.

Probably a good time to lump on them to win the euros.

davematt
19-06-2014, 01:19 PM
Except Spain haven't really played tikki takka, not in this tournament anyway, unless its a version so bad and sloppy its doesn't look like it.

Exactly.

People are saying its the death of Tiki Taka, but that wasn't Tiki Taka last night.

GreatGonzo
19-06-2014, 01:22 PM
Considering we just had an all Spanish champions league final and a catalogue of managerial mistakes (coupled with a bit of misfortune) leading to their early exit, my hunch is that Spain will be fine.

Probably a good time to lump on them to win the euros.

Only 9 of the 22 players who started in that all Spanish game were actually Spanich though, and only 3 starters on the winning side.

kolinkins
19-06-2014, 01:24 PM
Exactly.

People are saying its the death of Tiki Taka, but that wasn't Tiki Taka last night.

Because it had already died Dave.

GreatGonzo
19-06-2014, 01:24 PM
Exactly.

People are saying its the death of Tiki Taka, but that wasn't Tiki Taka last night.

As you know Dave, when someone plays a certain way consistently then coaches will try to devise ways to play against it successfully. When someone finds a way that works everyone copies. It is why the game constantly evolves.

davematt
19-06-2014, 01:26 PM
As you know Dave, when someone plays a certain way consistently then coaches will try to devise ways to play against it successfully. When someone finds a way that works everyone copies. It is why the game constantly evolves.

Agree.

DARZET EAGLE
19-06-2014, 01:27 PM
Spain looked awfully demoralised at the end after the Holland game and at least a yard off the pace. Last night the unfancied Chile simply hounded them out of the game, with a Pulis like organised back four and and two or three attacking the Spaniard in possession. Chile were an intense side and looked extremely fit, whilst Spain were not.

El Aguila
19-06-2014, 01:56 PM
It's not about systems, its about players,Spain's best players got old.

biggus mickus
19-06-2014, 02:57 PM
Plenty of quality youngsters in Spain. Why they didnt use Isco is unbelievable. Would love him at Palace.

danpalace07
19-06-2014, 05:01 PM
Plenty of quality youngsters in Spain. Why they didnt use Isco is unbelievable. Would love him at Palace.

No chance in a million years hahaha

Il Padrino
19-06-2014, 09:35 PM
Worst defence of a cup since Mick Phillpot tried to justify his Dad of the Year mug

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2014, 10:49 AM
Reina to start in place of Casillas vs Australia.

El Aguila
23-06-2014, 01:36 PM
One for the future.

Selhurst Celtic
23-06-2014, 02:40 PM
Haven't Spain won the last two U21 European cups?
Nothing is certain, but that surely bodes well for the future.

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2014, 05:40 PM
One for the future.

De Gea is injured that's why.

davech
23-06-2014, 05:45 PM
Haven't Spain won the last two U21 European cups?
Nothing is certain, but that surely bodes well for the future.

Genuine question.

Is that playing tiki-taka? Can they revive it or will they have to move on and adapt at that level too?

Selhurst Celtic
23-06-2014, 06:27 PM
Genuine question.

Is that playing tiki-taka? Can they revive it or will they have to move on and adapt at that level too?

I honestly couldn't tell you. It's a very good point. Coupled with underage success not necessarily translating to the senior side.

El Aguila
23-06-2014, 06:52 PM
They've been stacking up the victories in the younger age group tournaments for many years now... Fifteen or more.
They have always played possession football on the ground in those tournaments which I've watched.

Archiebald Leitch
26-06-2014, 06:46 PM
Just been passed the Bernabeu and there are signs on all the nearby lamposts that say 'Keep Calm and tiki taka on'.

El Aguila
26-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Welcome to Madrid, Archie.

art malice
27-06-2014, 09:27 AM
Worst defence of a cup since Mick Phillpot tried to justify his Dad of the Year mug

:D

Wycombe Eagle#2
27-06-2014, 10:43 AM
No big deal for Spain or rebuilding job to be done. They have their indentity of how they play and nothing should change, it's just that they couldn't play at pace due to their better players getting old, but vie no doubt more will come through. Germany, Italy, France and Holland all have their way of doing things and will always be there or there abouts.

We on the other hand lost our identity when trying to copy others due to people mingling and over thinking things and this country's media love in with Barcelona. Spain have no problems, we have loads until we accept this and stop trying to copy others. The wheel of evolution and whilst we try and copy the next best thing we'll always be playing catch up.

El Aguila
27-06-2014, 03:47 PM
Spain's identity is fairly recent, though. Up until about ten or twelve years ago they were forever arguing between fast paced, long ball football, and the more technical style.

I do agree with you, though. England fans get really hung up about winning when the cutest thing is surely to say, we play this way, and if we keep at it, great players will emerge and we shall see success.