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zonin2000
12-06-2015, 12:29 PM
The 1991-92 season is a blind spot in my Palace memory. My first memories of Palace were the 92-93 season and I subsequently watched that season review video many times (not understanding how we got relegated). And my dad's extensive programme and VHS collection gives me a pretty complete picture between the Swindon play off semis in 1989 and the 3-0 win at home to Man Utd to sign off the 1990-91 3rd place campaign.

But probably because 1991-92 was a bit of a 'meh' season (relatively), I didn't know much about it until I came across this season review video on YouTube (presented by John Salako!!):

chsWer-HeLw

What struck me watching that was how quickly the 1991 team broke down:

Wright was sold in September
Salako was injured, out for the season, shortly after
Andy Gray was transfer listed and eventually sent out on loan to Spurs (I never knew this, and his Wikipedia entry mentions nothing about a loan to Spurs, only a permanent transfer at the end of the season; but Steve Coppell definitely says that he was sent out on loan, in the video)


There seemed to be a lot of other injuries at points during that season, meaning we were regularly fielding teams with Southgate at right back, Lee Sinnott, Paul Mortimer, Simons Roger and Osborn and David Whyte or Stan Collymore.

With all that going on - and considering how much we've lauded our current 10th place finish - it feels like that team actually over achieved that year, despite finishing third the year before. We never dropped below twelfth from September and up until the last few games, we were seventh:

http://i.imgur.com/EDvD8wxl.png

Would love to hear memories from that season.

FourtyTwo
12-06-2015, 12:43 PM
I remember having layrngitis the weekend that we won at Anfield, and being at my Dad's house waking up in the night feeling awful (I was 11 at the time), coming downstairs for him to comfort me saying "If you'd come down 10 minutes ago you'd have seen the Palace highlights on MoTD".

Thanks Dad!

cantspell
12-06-2015, 12:47 PM
Games I remember - if memory serves me right we started pretty well until we played Arsenal in mid September.

The thing that stuck in my memory was the Salako injury against Leeds as he was developing into a top player. I remember the hush of the crowd at the time as everyone knew it was serious. Pity as Collymore had just come into the team for that match and looked a prospect.

Went to Anfield to see us win 2-1 andi n Gabbiadinni's best game for us, he and Geoff scored the goals. That was the highlight

We had a decent League Cup run. Got dicked 4-1 at Arsenal, which seems happened a lot

feck knows why we signed Sinnott as he was terribly slow.

After the previous 2 seasons, it was an anti climax, but wasn't bad considering Wright was sold in September.

grays_eagle
12-06-2015, 01:49 PM
Just had a look at the scores for that season on Wikipedia to refresh my memory.

Remember Ryan Giggs scored a belter to equalise for ManU in the home game. Stan Collymore going nuts after scoring against QPR.

Didn't Andy Gray get a bit arsey early in 1992? Then in the horrendous 0-1 home defeat to Coventry (as they all seemed to be in those four years in Div 1), we got awarded a penalty in front of the Holmesdale, which he hit straight at the keeper (Ogrizovic?). Cue recriminations from the fans and Gray never playing for us again.

Pub Idol
12-06-2015, 01:54 PM
Just had a look at the scores for that season on Wikipedia to refresh my memory.

Remember Ryan Giggs scored a belter to equalise for ManU in the home game. Stan Collymore going nuts after scoring against QPR.

Didn't Andy Gray get a bit arsey early in 1992? Then in the horrendous 0-1 home defeat to Coventry (as they all seemed to be in those four years in Div 1), we got awarded a penalty in front of the Holmesdale, which he hit straight at the keeper (Ogrizovic?). Cue recriminations from the fans and Gray never playing for us again.

Memory is hazy now but he was capped for England after some outstanding performances earlier in the season - He missed and easy chance for England away in Poland and was subbed at halftime - When he came back he seemed to have lost it a bit - Coppell let it be know he wasn't training well (sheepskin coat maybe ?) and come the Coventry game the supporters got on his back after when he wasn't playing well - To top it all off we got a pen and he missed it! He was then sold to Spurs under a bit of a cloud - Shame it ended badly as he was a great player for Palace.

Mat ov CPFC
12-06-2015, 02:07 PM
The thing that stuck in my memory was the Salako injury against Leeds as he was developing into a top player. I remember the hush of the crowd at the time as everyone knew it was serious. Pity as Collymore had just come into the team for that match and looked a prospect.

.


This.

And given what we achieved the previous season, then it has to be seen in context. We had something special in 1990-1991. Losing Ian Wright was the key to it for me because it signaled that we did not have what it really took to capitalise on what we had achieved by finished 3rd.

We were contenders. We could have actually, for the first and perhaps last time, had a shot at really challenging for the title or at least establishing ourselves as a top 5 side with all that would entail.

That is why I cannot get to enthused about what we have achieved this season. We can never challenge for the top 5. We might scrap into the 6-10 slots but even so, we will always be the poor relatives and it is all Noades fault.

zonin2000
12-06-2015, 02:33 PM
We were contenders. We could have actually, for the first and perhaps last time, had a shot at really challenging for the title or at least establishing ourselves as a top 5 side with all that would entail.

That is why I cannot get to enthused about what we have achieved this season. We can never challenge for the top 5. We might scrap into the 6-10 slots but even so, we will always be the poor relatives and it is all Noades fault.

I wonder what people think we could have achieved if we'd 'capitalised' on 1990-91. There are plenty of teams who've finished in and around the top five (in consecutive years, or twice in three years) but then gone on to the wilderness, for a variety of reasons.

What actions - in a utopian Palace fan world - should Noades have taken and where - hypothetically - could we be right now?

cantspell
12-06-2015, 02:41 PM
I agree with Mat ov

Bought someone like Shearer or Ferdinand to replace Wright when he was sold or better kept Wright and invested in the squad - we needed a deeper squad.

Now we need to keep our best players and aim to get a couple of quality additions

zonin2000
12-06-2015, 02:57 PM
There are plenty of teams who've finished in and around the top five (in consecutive years, or twice in three years) but then gone on to the wilderness, for a variety of reasons.
Sheffield Wednesday, 3rd in 91-92, 7th in both 92-93 and 93-94. Since 1999 they haven't finished higher than 9th in the second tier.

QPR, 5th in 92-93, 9th in 93-94, 8th in 94-95, then relegated the following season and out of the top flight for 14 years.

Wimbledon, Leeds are other recent examples from the top of my head.

zonin2000
12-06-2015, 03:01 PM
I agree with Mat ov

Bought someone like Shearer or Ferdinand to replace Wright when he was sold or better kept Wright and invested in the squad - we needed a deeper squad.

Now we need to keep our best players and aim to get a couple of quality additions

But surely, at best, we'd have competed in the top five for another two or three seasons and then eventually fallen. More likely than not we'd have spent at least a couple of years in the second tier between then and now.

Ever present Premier League teams since 1992-93:

Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham, Aston Villa, Everton.

Everton and Villa have come very, very close to dropping, from that list.

Il Padrino
12-06-2015, 03:29 PM
http://www.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/crystal-palace-paul-mortimer-57-panini-english-football-1992-collectable-sticker-34626-p.jpg

anti-addick
12-06-2015, 04:09 PM
I went to a lot of games that season as I was living in Addiscombe at the time. We went away to QPR and beat them 3-2 in the cup, I also remember us pasting Chelz at Stamford Bridge but they got an undeserved late late equaliser for 2-2. I can still remember the paper next day, I quote "Palace were robbed of a deserved victory....." Lot's of games, remember Salad doing his knee in, totally unwarranted piss-taking of Paul Bodin who was a bloody decent fullback, Collymore's debut, and it was the year I started the song "Al, Hopeless Al" which was repeated at an away day the following week, then appear in Eagle Eye under the title "Cruel Chants of our Time" :D

At that age it just appeared normal that we were a top side, no idea of the disaster to follow and the 20 years of painful ups and downs, many downs......

Typical Palace
12-06-2015, 06:14 PM
As a club we were rocked by Wright's sale and couldn't hold it together. They say no one player is bigger than the club but Wright was as close as it got.

Was it that summer that weeks and weeks went by without signing any body, then finally signing only Darren Paterson, who was awful, but pleased some with his violent tendencies?

We really didn't manage to build on that side. Many great managers have built great sides but managing the transition into changing sides has been managed by few. Ferguson was a genius at that, Bob Paisley too.

We bought Bodin and his adolescent moustache as a left back but Coppell never seemed convinced and stuck with Shaw largely. Southgate went on to be a very good player for Palace, and afterwards, but at the time he was struggling. The depth of the squad now and last year was far, far deeper than it was then. We had garbage like Paul Mortimer. Ron Atkinson seemed to do one on Sir Stevie selling him to Palace. I recall there's a story that Coppell just looked at the Rothman's Year Book to ID Mortimer. There were some very good players; Coleman, Shaw, Martyn, McGoldrick and some absolute gash; Rodger and Osborne, Mortimer. We were criminally short of a striker after Bright left and played left back Coleman up front

Typical Palace
12-06-2015, 07:34 PM
Just watched that hour long clip and I don't remember much about this season.

There appears to be a lack of discipline, especially early on. The number of penalties we concede and the number of sendings off. Some of the penalties are staggeringly soft though. We conceded three penalties to Man City in two games and all of them was as soft as anything.

Everybody, even the club was saying our double over Liverpool was our first ever. I thought so, but we did the double this season over a flattering LFC.

Gabbiadini actually looks a good player and scores a few goals, as does Coleman, and Bright scored 22 which must remain one of our highest totals for a striker in the top division. Martyn actually looks at fault for quite a few goals (but not as bad as poor Perry Suckling who had a mare when in for the suspended Big Nige). If Speroni had the season Nigel had there'd be some questions.

Very interesting to see this video as I've forgotten much of that season.

Pub Idol
12-06-2015, 07:41 PM
As a club we were rocked by Wright's sale and couldn't hold it together. They say no one player is bigger than the club but Wright was as close as it got.

Was it that summer that weeks and weeks went by without signing any body, then finally signing only Darren Paterson, who was awful, but pleased some with his violent tendencies?

We really didn't manage to build on that side. Many great managers have built great sides but managing the transition into changing sides has been managed by few. Ferguson was a genius at that, Bob Paisley too.

We bought Bodin and his adolescent moustache as a left back but Coppell never seemed convinced and stuck with Shaw largely. Southgate went on to be a very good player for Palace, and afterwards, but at the time he was struggling. The depth of the squad now and last year was far, far deeper than it was then. We had garbage like Paul Mortimer. Ron Atkinson seemed to do one on Sir Stevie selling him to Palace. I recall there's a story that Coppell just looked at the Rothman's Year Book to ID Mortimer. There were some very good players; Coleman, Shaw, Martyn, McGoldrick and some absolute gash; Rodger and Osborne, Mortimer. We were criminally short of a striker after Bright left and played left back Coleman up front

Osborne was ok. Simon Rodger was very good IMO. He had a good career at Palace but circa 1992 he looked a real prospect.

Typical Palace
12-06-2015, 08:49 PM
I don't think Rodger was that good. Osborne was pretty average. A career at Reading (90k) and a couple of 1m moves to QPR and Wolves.

Rodger had a decent dead ball and corner but didn't pull up any trees. MOre volume than impact his Palace career. You have to wonder whether anyone else actually wanted him enough to pay good money for him. I never really liked him, silly bangs and barely broke into a smile. I'm also influenced by the way he eventual left, played for Brighton, and seemed to barely glance back at us over his sholuder.

Maybe harsh on both players, I admit that, but we all have our favourites and also some off the wall prejudices.

Am Phibian
13-06-2015, 07:28 AM
I remember watching 'Gabbiadini' around the October time and thinking 'oh,fvck'.

Those who blame Noades are spot on. He played the Mr Burns role superbly by not strengthening the squad even though we were going to be in The Premiership from the start.

The 'replace decent players with average and cheaper ones' philosophy didn't pay off, surprisingly. His golfing enterprise did very well though which made me forgive him.

stumpy feelers
13-06-2015, 08:13 AM
Thanks for the link. All I can remember is what the hell did they do to our Wembley style goals. They looked shit this season. Oh and how a brilliant team was slowly decimated this season. The beginning of the end for this team.

hughff
13-06-2015, 10:02 AM
Some observations, having taken that trip down memory lane:
1. Gabbiadini scored quite a few. TBH, it's the combination of the legendary exploits of the guy he was bought to replace and the (at the time) enormous sum we paid for him that made him a flop in red and blue.
2. Man City got some really, really soft penalties that season - gifted them 4 points.
3. The squad was too thin. Injuries bit deep and while every replacement stepped up at some point, we were asking too many to do so all at once.
4. By mid season, we had effectively lost Wright, Salako and Gray for the "Team of the Nineties." Salako's loss was just bad luck; Wright's was a shame but probably predictable; but Gray's departure smacked of a mistake - something went wrong there and it's a great pity.
5. At the time, we believed that season was an aberration (look at thow optimistic Coppell and Solako are about the coming season) but it's now clear the writing was already on the wall.

hughff
13-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Oh, and...
6. Liverpool are our bitches!

gold76
13-06-2015, 11:13 AM
This was known as the season of boredom, even though we finished 10th.

I only went to the one game united home, mortimer scored early, but then they dicked all over us.

zonin2000
13-06-2015, 01:18 PM
If we'd beaten QPR on the final day (instead of losing 1-0), we'd have finished level on points with seventh.

Mind you, if we'd picked up three more points in the following season, we'd have finished level with 14th, instead of being relegated!

dave_who_ru
13-06-2015, 01:39 PM
The one game I always recall vividly is the re-arranged home game against Leeds.

A Tuesday night game so beers after work and the train from London Bridge. Ian Wright gone, Marco Gabbiadini's debut (1.8m ouch) and an undefeated Leeds side. We were in the Arthur towards the Whitehorse. John Salako was just reaching his peak so it was a tragedy when he was stretchered off. Although we didn't know the extent of his injury I think then there was this ominous feeling that we had lost our two best players in a matter of days.

Second half we got a closer look at Gabbiadini. There was an element of skill and effort but he was certainly no Ian Wright. The intensity of how we played in those days and coming in to the game off the back of an injury couldn't have helped.

A prolonged 'Stevie Coppell's Red n' Blue Army' saw us through with Mark Bright's late winner.

Afterwards walking up Park Road past the away coaches I saw a Palace fan mouthing off to the Leeds fans and receiving swift retribution. Some people never learn.

dave_who_ru
13-06-2015, 01:46 PM
This was known as the season of boredom, even though we finished 10th.

I only went to the one game united home, mortimer scored early, but then they dicked all over us.

Playing away seems to suit us though, even then.

Home record: won 7 drew 8 lost 6 - GF 24 GA 25
Away record: won 7 drew 7 lost 7 - GF 29 GA 36 (13 of the way goals were in 3 games)

Typical Palace
13-06-2015, 07:14 PM
Some of those away followings were poor. And our home gates weren't great either

I'd forgotten Stan the Man played as much for us and that he'd scored. A missed opportunity to build on W&B. Anyone who watched the reserves at the time could see he was a real prospect

dave_who_ru
13-06-2015, 07:29 PM
Some of those away followings were poor. And our home gates weren't great either

I'd forgotten Stan the Man played as much for us and that he'd scored. A missed opportunity to build on W&B. Anyone who watched the reserves at the time could see he was a real prospect

Our average home attendance was 15,979. However to put it into perspective these were some of the attendances at our away games:

Oldham 13,391
Coventry 10,591
Sheffield United 17,969
Norwich 12,667
Chelsea 17,810
Luton 8.591
Notts County 7,674
Spurs 19,834
Southampton 12,926
West Ham 17,710

The biggest home and away crowds were against Man United: 29,017 and 46,347

Lee sinnots ear
13-06-2015, 09:13 PM
I remember watching 'Gabbiadini' around the October time and thinking 'oh,fvck'.

Those who blame Noades are spot on. He played the Mr Burns role superbly by not strengthening the squad even though we were going to be in The Premiership from the start.

The 'replace decent players with average and cheaper ones' philosophy didn't pay off, surprisingly. His golfing enterprise did very well though which made me forgive him.

I will never ever forgive Noades dead or not every problem we had from 1997 -2010 can be traced back to that SOB:veryangry

jaspercpfc
13-06-2015, 09:33 PM
I wonder what people think we could have achieved if we'd 'capitalised' on 1990-91. There are plenty of teams who've finished in and around the top five (in consecutive years, or twice in three years) but then gone on to the wilderness, for a variety of reasons.
What actions - in a utopian Palace fan world - should Noades have taken and where - hypothetically - could we be right now?

Very much a case of what if, and it hurts looking back at what that team could have achieved.
We sat on our lorals and didn't kick on. Leeds finished 4th in 1991 having been promoted 12 months earlier, and went onto win the title the following campaign whilst adding Rod Wallace, Tony Dorigo & Steve Hodge to their ranks. We were on the crisp of something so special, and it was taken away from our clutches. Jimmy Greaves even predicted in Match's 1991 summer pre-season prediction that "We could go all the way to winning the title in 1992 after 1991's heroics"

We never recovered from the fall out of Noades tv appearance, and being stiched up by Crooks/C4, and Wright consequently engineered a move to Arsenal as a result was the beginning of the end. Coppell wasted 500k on Mortimer who was bought as a replacement for Salako, but was pretty average. Gabiaddini came and went, and we saw alot of kids given their debuts.
Fast forward 4 months to February, and we saw Andy Gray barely break sweat in his final appearance against Coventry before departing for Spurs, when 12 months earlier he was the heart beat of the team alongside Skip in the heart of the midfield.
There were a few highlights seeing Salad replace "Nige" in goal againt Wimbledon in a thrilling 3-2 win on a balmy midweek evening at Selhurst, and the best performance of the season came at the win at Anfield, & it all but buried the ghost of the 9-0 a couple of seasons earlier.

dave_who_ru
13-06-2015, 10:31 PM
You never know if we had bought Shearer instead of Gabbiadini it might have been so different.

Given the previous season I imagine the view within the club was that we didn't need to tinker too much with the team. We did bring in Chris Coleman who turned out to be another astute buy. Clearly losing Wright and Salako wasn't on the agenda and we can probably agree that their replacements were both impulse buys. Even so we were still in 5th place late November and we had a half decent season.

It was a missed opportunity but then again half the clubs who we played against that season are no where near the Premier League at present.

zonin2000
13-06-2015, 10:43 PM
Our average home attendance was 15,979. However to put it into perspective these were some of the attendances at our away games:

Oldham 13,391
Coventry 10,591
Sheffield United 17,969
Norwich 12,667
Chelsea 17,810
Luton 8.591
Notts County 7,674
Spurs 19,834
Southampton 12,926
West Ham 17,710

The biggest home and away crowds were against Man United: 29,017 and 46,347
Wow.

Not many people watched football in those days!

Daveyboyross
13-06-2015, 11:57 PM
I wonder how Tulip Computers are doing these days...

Daveyboyross
14-06-2015, 12:04 AM
I have no reason why but that game at home to Wimbledon is one of my favourite nights at Selhurst Park.

And we had some proper good players back then. Ninja and Thorny were immense and have we ever had as good a central midfielder as Geoff Thomas?

Skin Up
14-06-2015, 05:19 AM
Only went to 3 games..

2-2 against QPR, we were 0-2 down with about 10 minutes left, the equaliser was Collymores only league goal for us.

1-0 win against Notts County. Gabbiadini scored, Notts had been promoted by beating Brighton in the play off final and were managed by a young Neil Warnock. Boring game.

3-4 defeat to Norwich, despite the tight scoreline we never looked like getting anything from this game.

All in all a dismal season for quality in general. Leeds won the title after Man Utd hilariously imploded in the last few games and were probably the worst champions in memory. Euro 92 was poor as well (especially from England).

Eagle Kneevil
14-06-2015, 07:27 AM
POINTLESS HINDSIGHT ALERT: The sad thing is we may not have been relegated the next season if we had kept hold of Gabbiadini. To think that now, a one-goal-in-three striker is gold dust in the top flight.

EmmerGreenEagle
14-06-2015, 07:42 AM
POINTLESS HINDSIGHT ALERT: The sad thing is we may not have been relegated the next season if we had kept hold of Gabbiadini. To think that now, a one-goal-in-three striker is gold dust in the top flight.

Good point. Too many Palace fans slag off Marco. He was on a hiding to nothing replacing Wrighty

dim
14-06-2015, 12:24 PM
as I recall the table stat is a bit misleading as the WHL end was not ready to play the first match, which we only caught up after selling Ian.

l think we could have done something special that year if we had not sold or adequately replaced Ian - we were still a bloody good side, but after selling Ian, Salad got done in the first match and the subsequent disruption took its toll.

N Herts Eagle
14-06-2015, 08:30 PM
The cry about Noades not investing in the team after we finished third, is still one that on in the context of the time needs examination. We finished third with a team that when all were fit had very few weak links. Nigel Thomas Gray Salako Wright were all there or there abouts in the England squad. Humphrey Young Thorn Shaw were solid, and that leaves Mark Bright and Eddie. Still the greatest ever side we ever put out only challenged by the current team. Weak links or strengthening personally Shaw (at the time) maybe doubts about Eddie though these were disproved during the season. Though the strength in depth is not there we had the players but none of the quality of the starting 11. However in those days no transfer window you went and brought if you needed to, no 25 man squad back then.
The season and subsequent failure the next though to my mind is down to two things The first one Steve Coppell and Noades failure to find the right players to fit into the team we had after years of success (with one or two failures Hodges for example) in doing so they failed. Young is still struggling with injury and we invested in Lee Sinnott never the same quality. Bodin is brought for direct competition for Shaw plays 12 games and is gone. Mortimor to replace the injured Salako, the clue was Villa let him go after a few months, he played a few games then sat out his contract. Wrights departure and we replaced him with Marco and sold him within months. The second leads on from this the team is similar to todays there were leaders key players all over the pitch, those we brought in just never seemed to settle into the team culture. Whats even more annoying looking back is there were opportunities with players like Andy Cole, Dion Dublin, Brian Deane who looking back could of offered better alternatives. The first two were less well known but we proved the following season with Chris Armstrong that this was not a drawback.
The Wright replacement Noades and Steve wanted a big name it was not lacking investment, it was not bringing the right type of player to fit into the dressing room the culture that prevailed at the time. Look at the interviews now Bright Wright out on the training pitch day after day building an understanding, go back to Smith comments about Marco being lazy, did it indicate he lacked the dedication of Wright, that he had been a success at Sunderland did not put in the time to build the understanding with Bright.
The team imploded Gray first always a complexed character, was shipped out. Marco went and was never replaced during the season. We had the sight of Chris Coelman brought as a centre half playing centre forward, worse we did not buy a forward during the summer. Other players that had been mainstays in the rise disappeared Pardew Barber fringe players maybe but part of the work ethic in the team.
Yet through it all we still finished tenth but the potential for it all falling apart was there to see.
The failure was not the investment in the team that finished third we tried and failed the failure was not investing in the future in the team that finished 10th. Not seeing that team had run its course and needed wholesale changes needed a forward to go with Bright, needed a new midfield general to replace Gray, players with a work ethic of Wright or Thomas not Mortimor and Bodin. Of not admitting the mistakes in the transfer market and replacing them, losing the culture of bringing in players from lower divisions eager to succeed, but bringing in players who had played first division football had some success, but lacked the work ethic. Some of that goes back to the first two seasons Thorn Young Humphrey, all were proven all brought in improved the side,Steve and Ron saw it as the way to go proven first division players. They ignored the failure of Glynn Hodges the change had brought success. Mortimor Marco Sinnott all had been there the exception was Bodin They got the mix wrong it needed both experience and the eager lower league player we saw it with Armstrong the next season. It was also about understanding the dressing room the type of characters that fitted into it patently Bodin Marco Mortimor did not.

cantspell
14-06-2015, 10:26 PM
What a post North Herts when you say Shaw was the weak link in that team it says something doesn't it- would have got into virtually every side since and is probably the best man for man marker I have ever seen playing for Palace.

In hindsight we needed another wright and that man was cole but never mind. Despite those transfer failures we were brilliant in those years in the market redfearn Thomas pemberton Wright bright Humphrey young martyn thorn Coleman

SOUTHGATE EAGLE
14-06-2015, 11:00 PM
I was amazed watching that video at the number of goals Marco scored. I couldn't remember there being that many at the time. He also seems quite able at providing as well. You could see, based on the video, why Coppell thought Marco would be a good strike partner for Bright. I agree with earlier posts stating we would likely not have been relegated had Marco stayed the next year. Still not sure why he left and we agreed to lose over a million selling him so quickly. Anyone know why?

N Herts Eagle
15-06-2015, 06:01 AM
What a post North Herts when you say Shaw was the weak link in that team it says something doesn't it- would have got into virtually every side since and is probably the best man for man marker I have ever seen playing for Palace.

In hindsight we needed another wright and that man was cole but never mind. Despite those transfer failures we were brilliant in those years in the market redfearn Thomas pemberton Wright bright Humphrey young martyn thorn Coleman I think the issue was we were brillant but then as the conditions changed we failed to respond. Stick with the season above we brought in Collymore and Coleman both went on either with us or eleswhere to be top players. That was Palace of the Championship, the Thomas Pemberton Eddie signings lower league point to prove build them to be the players they became maybe it takes a season or two.
During and after the first season we brought in Young Thorn Humphrey , in an interview at the time its on the review season video Coppell talks about changing the view how he realised we needed to spend on proven players to come into the side. At the time it worked but there was a sign looking back that we failed to do the homework on the players the attitude. I took a trek to some god forsaken non league ground Uxbridge to see us play a pre season friendly, basically it was the reserve side except Glynn Hodges who we just signed for big money played, he looked over weight disinterested. It seemed the management team were trying to get him fit, he never settled with us and was off within a season. As I said in the post the next succession of signings the big names all failed to settle.
What was worse was during the summer after we finished 10th we brought no one, a team in transition and needing a boost. Southgate Rodger Osborn Whyte the future certainly but they need help. However it seemed the implosion started by Gray just continued. Thomas massively unsettled by the transfer to Blackburn talk looked nowhere near the previous seasons form, when he failed to deliver in the first game agains them and they pulled out he just lost form or interest. Bright whether unsettled or Coppell wanted to clear out the old guard I dont know was sold. We brought Armstrong and he looked a player straight away it looked like he and Bright might form a partnership, but the sale and arrival of Paul Williams put an end to that. Now Williams was a gifted player but no Bright or Wright for that matter.
Nowdays people complain we did not invest in the team that finished third, I take a view that the team reached it peak needed investment and changing, that we did try the fees for Sinnott Bodin Marco Mortimor Williams were for us big fee transfers they were the wrong players. Take away Armstrong and none of the big fee players after Eric were successful for us. That was the failure and Steve and Ron hold responsibility for that. The stupidity or the annoying thing is they were linked had opportunities Cole was one Ian Taylor Dion Dublin others linked at the time that my well of added to improved the side untried but of the character to go out battle to prove a point.

Pub Idol
15-06-2015, 10:39 AM
All the players we bought in had merit even it didn't quite work out for them even Paul Mortamer was a decent player before we signed him.

The one player I cant understand was Lee Sinnott. He was not a young player nor was he any good ? Why did they buy him ? Love to know....

Sydenham Eagle
15-06-2015, 10:57 AM
I don't think Rodger was that good. Osborne was pretty average. A career at Reading (90k) and a couple of 1m moves to QPR and Wolves.

Rodger had a decent dead ball and corner but didn't pull up any trees. MOre volume than impact his Palace career. You have to wonder whether anyone else actually wanted him enough to pay good money for him. I never really liked him, silly bangs and barely broke into a smile. I'm also influenced by the way he eventual left, played for Brighton, and seemed to barely glance back at us over his sholuder.

Maybe harsh on both players, I admit that, but we all have our favourites and also some off the wall prejudices.
Simon Rodger delivered superb quality from set pieces

Am Phibian
15-06-2015, 11:42 AM
All I can add now is that it takes something pretty special in the boardroom/management/coaching area to achieve relegation for a club that only 23 months earlier came third.

There can be no excuses only reasons. Abject reasons.

Pub Idol
15-06-2015, 12:06 PM
All I can add now is that it takes something pretty special in the boardroom/management/coaching area to achieve relegation for a club that only 23 months earlier came third.

There can be no excuses only reasons. Abject reasons.

Harsh but true.

Even though we had been building for years we were still fragile as a club - Still feel like that now. Maybe that's just how it is.

Dario_G
15-06-2015, 02:08 PM
Was quite young when I went this season but we started amazingly only to fall apart mid-way through the season with some abject displays. Arsenal & Man Utd at home were painful reminders that we were no where near the level we achieved the previous season. As mentioned earlier the Andy Gray scenario probably summed everything up. As soon as his mate Wrighty went his head dropped. The game for England where he played 45 minutes and missed a sitter seemed to destroy his confidence. The penalty against Coventry was disgraceful. Everyone in the ground knew he would miss. He virtually passed it to the keeper when he would normally blast everything in sight. There was also a certain element that we were doing things on the cheap by blooding youngsters who were not ready to make the step up. Still the feeling was that we would pick up next season and push on again without needing to invest in the squad heavily....

zonin2000
15-06-2015, 02:32 PM
Great memories, plugging a big gap in my Palace knowledge. Thanks everyone!

CPFC.1990
15-06-2015, 03:20 PM
One thing watching that back was that John Humphrey really wasn't as great at defending as some people seem to think. Certainly Boyce and Clyne were better. Boyce was consistent at the highest level. Humphrey played when the pass back rule wasn't introduced so arguably it was a little easier for full back back then. See Humphrey trying to defend at Oldham away.

I loved this era at Palace. Wrighty was so good, irreplaceable in fact. Shame Salako got such a bad injury as he could have been a huge star that season.

Wimbledon at home was an incredible match.

Typical Palace
15-06-2015, 05:54 PM
The cry about Noades not investing in the team after we finished third, is still one that on in the context of the time needs examination. We finished third with a team that when all were fit had very few weak links. Nigel Thomas Gray Salako Wright were all there or there abouts in the England squad. Humphrey Young Thorn Shaw were solid, and that leaves Mark Bright and Eddie. Still the greatest ever side we ever put out only challenged by the current team. Weak links or strengthening personally Shaw (at the time) maybe doubts about Eddie though these were disproved during the season. Though the strength in depth is not there we had the players but none of the quality of the starting 11. However in those days no transfer window you went and brought if you needed to, no 25 man squad back then.
The season and subsequent failure the next though to my mind is down to two things The first one Steve Coppell and Noades failure to find the right players to fit into the team we had after years of success (with one or two failures Hodges for example) in doing so they failed. Young is still struggling with injury and we invested in Lee Sinnott never the same quality. Bodin is brought for direct competition for Shaw plays 12 games and is gone. Mortimor to replace the injured Salako, the clue was Villa let him go after a few months, he played a few games then sat out his contract. Wrights departure and we replaced him with Marco and sold him within months. The second leads on from this the team is similar to todays there were leaders key players all over the pitch, those we brought in just never seemed to settle into the team culture. Whats even more annoying looking back is there were opportunities with players like Andy Cole, Dion Dublin, Brian Deane who looking back could of offered better alternatives. The first two were less well known but we proved the following season with Chris Armstrong that this was not a drawback.
The Wright replacement Noades and Steve wanted a big name it was not lacking investment, it was not bringing the right type of player to fit into the dressing room the culture that prevailed at the time. Look at the interviews now Bright Wright out on the training pitch day after day building an understanding, go back to Smith comments about Marco being lazy, did it indicate he lacked the dedication of Wright, that he had been a success at Sunderland did not put in the time to build the understanding with Bright.
The team imploded Gray first always a complexed character, was shipped out. Marco went and was never replaced during the season. We had the sight of Chris Coelman brought as a centre half playing centre forward, worse we did not buy a forward during the summer. Other players that had been mainstays in the rise disappeared Pardew Barber fringe players maybe but part of the work ethic in the team.
Yet through it all we still finished tenth but the potential for it all falling apart was there to see.
The failure was not the investment in the team that finished third we tried and failed the failure was not investing in the future in the team that finished 10th. Not seeing that team had run its course and needed wholesale changes needed a forward to go with Bright, needed a new midfield general to replace Gray, players with a work ethic of Wright or Thomas not Mortimor and Bodin. Of not admitting the mistakes in the transfer market and replacing them, losing the culture of bringing in players from lower divisions eager to succeed, but bringing in players who had played first division football had some success, but lacked the work ethic. Some of that goes back to the first two seasons Thorn Young Humphrey, all were proven all brought in improved the side,Steve and Ron saw it as the way to go proven first division players. They ignored the failure of Glynn Hodges the change had brought success. Mortimor Marco Sinnott all had been there the exception was Bodin They got the mix wrong it needed both experience and the eager lower league player we saw it with Armstrong the next season. It was also about understanding the dressing room the type of characters that fitted into it patently Bodin Marco Mortimor did not.
Alan Smith's calling out of Gabbiadini was unprofessional, unhelpful and counter productive. It is symptomatic of how enormous, and irreplaceable Wright was. Even the management couldn't cope with his loss. If anything it shows Smith was happy to slate his players if he it meant he got a headline. His time as manager second time shows that (Listing Mullins, Morrison and Smith, going public on Armstrong's spliff-use and generally being happy to stick the boot into his players in the press - the antithesis of Fergie, Wenger etc)

Re midfield general we needed after Gray. I spoke with Big Ron Noadie about this at the time and he said 'We have replaced Gray', 'really?' I said 'who with?'; 'Gareth Southgate' he replied. I thought he was crazy at the time but the following Championship winning season proved he had a point to a degree (whether Southgate could boss games in the Prem at that tender age is a moot point - after all it was as centre back that he made it). As you say N Herts this itself is probably symptomatic of Ron doing things on the cheap; relying on youngsters before they were ready. And suffering the consequences. I don't think Ron, for all his experience with football, foresaw the monster the Premier League would become. He still operated with an attitude of 'We can build from scratch, win promotion, I'll make a mint, rinse and repeat'. He didn't see the potential in sticking where the money was (though obviously the financial differential then was nothing like it is now). Maybe he enjoyed the journey of building a team, using his undoubted scouting skills, as much as the destination? For all of Ron's rebuilding policy he never really mastered the youth set up like SJ did, did he? The youth set up is about SJ's sole positive legacy.

Typical Palace
15-06-2015, 05:59 PM
Good point. Too many Palace fans slag off Marco. He was on a hiding to nothing replacing Wrighty
Virtually no one could've.

We can look at Andy Cole or Shearer, but who's to say they'd have developed the same way?

How only have to look at Moyes to see that some boots are impossible to fill.

NorfolkEnchants
15-06-2015, 07:05 PM
I first saw Gabbiadini in a Palace shirt in a return leg of the league cup against Hartlepool. I'm sure he was playing against his brother that night. We won by quite a few but remember going home thinking he wasn't going to make it.

N Herts Eagle
16-06-2015, 06:42 AM
For all of Ron's rebuilding policy he never really mastered the youth set up like SJ did, did he? The youth set up is about SJ's sole positive legacy. Its interesting about the youth policy under Noades in cost cutting he killed of the reserve side and I was upset at the time, but as it progressed he did build from the youth structure in place. Shaw and Salako were two of the great team from the youth set up. During the following season we saw Whyte Osborn Southgate.
What Steve and Ron were successful at was spotting talent be it non-league or lower league clubs bringing them in and taking the talent to the next level. My arguement is that when they realised that the First Division required an extra mix of bringing in established players as well they at first got it right. Thorn Young Humphrey. That the 1991-92 season was when the luck or skill ran out they got it wrong over the established experienced players. They still had the knack of unearthing a gem Coleman Rodger Collymore but experience it was disaster.
We end the season with the defence still a solid enough unit , but the midfield - attack is trying to integrate into a new force. Bright is looking for a partner having lost Wright , we see Marco, David Whyte and settle on Coleman ( a great centre half but not a centre forward). Thomas is unsettled looking to cash in on his success seeing Gray Wright do so. We in the meantime are trying to sort out the Gray replacement if the team was settled then maybe Gareth was the answer but it was not. We are also desperately hoping a returning to hold it together on the wings the prospect of Salako returning for the next season. So we see Simon Osborn and Rodger tried as well (I think). You look back saying that it was still our second best season just disappointing after the heights of the previous one, and restrospectively all the signs for the disaster for the next were in place. I think the tenth place kind of hid that the team we finished with that season really were not good enough that the youth and youngsters coming through were not going to be capable the next. As I said its not the investment in the team that finished 3rd but the one that finished 10th. BUT Lets not also forget investment in the ground Selhurst itself had to be funded as well Ron knew it the all seater stadium had to come. The Whitehorse Lane first but then the Holmesdale. Despite the success we had to put money aside for the development of Selhurst pre the money spinning Premiership of today.

Percy Dalton
16-06-2015, 09:29 AM
All I can add now is that it takes something pretty special in the boardroom/management/coaching area to achieve relegation for a club that only 23 months earlier came third.

There can be no excuses only reasons. Abject reasons.


A bit unfair when you bear in mind that the money now available from the Premier league was not a factor in pushing the club forward.

After 1990/91 we were always going to go through a period of rebuilding and 91/92 and 92/93 were exactly that and we only failed by the smallest margin to stay up with a team that would have flourished in the Premier league in 93/94 the way we cruised the second tier to only our third Championship provides proof of this.

I understand why people blame Ron for a lack of cash investment, but he had to balance the books and buying top players and redevelope Selhurst at the same time was always going to be a problem. It should not be forgotten that with the dust of Hillsborough still settling Selhurst had to become an all seater stadium which meant not only did the club have to invest money that another time may have been spent on players, but the capacity of the stadium dropped so making it difficult to recoup the investment.

In addition Ron did not baulk at investing in players in 89/90 when it was obvious despite many talented players in the squad after promotion, we still needed to strengthen and investing in Big Nigel and Andy Thorn showed the clubs ambition, so to say he was tight with money is not strictly true.

I thought bearing in mind the transition we were going through 91/92 was a good season and to finish where we did was as good as an achievement as this and last season.

92/93 was the killer, we had a good side that by the final home game was really showing what a good job the club had made of rebuilding. Sure we were at the wrong end of the table, but anybody who saw us demolish Ipswich would have been confident of a good season in 93/94. Sadly the fates conspired against us when we needed them most and had we managed a win at Main Road in the midweek game which were close to achieving rather than the draw, the Arsenal game would have been academic. Another season in the fledgling Premier league in 93/94 would have made such a huge difference for our club, I am sure we would have stayed there until now and we would have a fantastic stadium attracting the sort of crowds we used to in the late
60's and 70's

That fate has been unkind to Palace has in many ways made us stronger as a club and now 22 years later we really do have the opportunity to move onto the next level. However the coming season could be another 91/92 as we move forward and rebuild towards the next level, so I hope us as fans learn the lesson of history and should the coming season not be so exciting be happy to finish any where between first ( :D) and 17th ! The key is to stick and keep building :p

N Herts Eagle
16-06-2015, 12:35 PM
The fear is Percy is the same factor that held us back then the redevelopment of Selhurst is hanging over us today. When I was writing this morning it dawned on me how right now we face that same issue Ron did then today redevelopment of the ground combined with investment in the team. Interesting how history repeats itself so often. Granted factors such as the money available now is vastly different.

Dario_G
16-06-2015, 01:32 PM
The fear is Percy is the same factor that held us back then the redevelopment of Selhurst is hanging over us today. When I was writing this morning it dawned on me how right now we face that same issue Ron did then today redevelopment of the ground combined with investment in the team. Interesting how history repeats itself so often. Granted factors such as the money available now is vastly different.

The difference quite clearly between now and then is the TV money. Back then we had ITV rolling out one game every few weeks on a Sunday. Were Palace ever on live that season? The best way we have to redevelop the ground is to stay in the PL and become established and get some more invest in which would allow us to develop the squad at the same time as the playing squad. Back in 1991/92 and pre-Premiership the money wasn't there but we still should have strengthened better in the summer of 92. You would have thought that RN would had caught a whiff of the extra pound notes coming in through SKY and would do everything in his power to ensure Palace stayed there considering we had been up since 1989. It was clearly a massive impolsion to go from 3rd to relegated in 2 years and the key was lack of finance in the playing squad. Even when we went up in 93/94 he tried doing it on the cheap again with the same result!

Pub Idol
16-06-2015, 02:45 PM
The difference quite clearly between now and then is the TV money. Back then we had ITV rolling out one game every few weeks on a Sunday. Were Palace ever on live that season? The best way we have to redevelop the ground is to stay in the PL and become established and get some more invest in which would allow us to develop the squad at the same time as the playing squad. Back in 1991/92 and pre-Premiership the money wasn't there but we still should have strengthened better in the summer of 92. You would have thought that RN would had caught a whiff of the extra pound notes coming in through SKY and would do everything in his power to ensure Palace stayed there considering we had been up since 1989. It was clearly a massive impolsion to go from 3rd to relegated in 2 years and the key was lack of finance in the playing squad. Even when we went up in 93/94 he tried doing it on the cheap again with the same result!

We continued to yo-you until 98 when he sold. Had he not sold ?? Likely hood is we would have bounced back again and eventually we might have consolidated.

In terms of investment - We did invest in 89 with Martyn and Thorn - Big money at the time - But in 91 Young was financed by the Cup run and Humphrey was Charlton rent I think.

Typical Palace
16-06-2015, 06:01 PM
The fear is Percy is the same factor that held us back then the redevelopment of Selhurst is hanging over us today. When I was writing this morning it dawned on me how right now we face that same issue Ron did then today redevelopment of the ground combined with investment in the team. Interesting how history repeats itself so often. Granted factors such as the money available now is vastly different.

This is why Parrish wants extra (overseas) investment. To do it quicker and more safely.

Typical Palace
16-06-2015, 06:08 PM
The difference quite clearly between now and then is the TV money. Back then we had ITV rolling out one game every few weeks on a Sunday. Were Palace ever on live that season? The best way we have to redevelop the ground is to stay in the PL and become established and get some more invest in which would allow us to develop the squad at the same time as the playing squad. Back in 1991/92 and pre-Premiership the money wasn't there but we still should have strengthened better in the summer of 92. You would have thought that RN would had caught a whiff of the extra pound notes coming in through SKY and would do everything in his power to ensure Palace stayed there considering we had been up since 1989. It was clearly a massive impolsion to go from 3rd to relegated in 2 years and the key was lack of finance in the playing squad. Even when we went up in 93/94 he tried doing it on the cheap again with the same result!

You right Dario_G there is a huge amount of money now with the new TV deal. So far we've managed to be prudent and have a 40K ceiling on top earners. They're trying to sensibly and safely increase this to 60K this year. But in reality will most of that money flush straight through the club? Wages and huge transfer fees will suck most of the new money away.

We've performed miracles staying up 'on the cheap' (compared to the likes of other clubs) but how long can you do that before you come a cropper?

Does have anyone have the league table of who spent most in wages and transfer fees? We were bottom of that in 2013/14, yet bucked gravity to finish 11th. Incredible.

Surely this year the likes of Burnley would have spent less than us? But I'd still venture we again bucked the trend and finished higher relatively than our wage/transfer spend.

QPR fans must look at us and the way we operate and tear their hair out: Rio 100K? Sandro 50K? Samba 100K?

We can be very smug and grateful for our owners, management and players.

EDIT: Palace were the 17th biggest wage payers in the Premier League in 2014/15. Only Burnley, Leicester (surprisingly) and Hull were lower. I was surprised at Hull as I thought they threw money at it. In wages though they were 18th (I bet they spent a shitload on transfers though). Usually if you're in the bottom three wage payings, chances are you get a bottom three finish, and that's what happened to Brucie's Wor Boys.

In terms of cost per Premier League point (which should take into account our transfer spend, which was high) each point cost Palace 1,229,524, which is the eight most efficient cost-wise. Southampton 'won' this and Chelsea were also above us, as were Burnley (low net spend).

Palace are over achieving by a huge margin, this year and last. They'll be talking about us as 'the model of how to get promoted and stay up and build' next.

Stuart Austen
22-06-2015, 12:34 PM
Could someone do me a favour and post the link to the 1991-92 season review video please?
Clearly I am not alone in this feeling like a 'forgotten' season. I think losing Ian Wright was like severing an artery between the team and the fans. We had all come so far together and when he went we sort of coasted along a bit in a daze without a true direction.
Also, I guess we had it so good in the previous few years we were all guilty of complacency and there was nothing that special about a 10th-place finish. Crazy really, given what followed.

Typical Palace
22-06-2015, 02:39 PM
Stuart, is the one embedded in the first post not working?

Buglebob
22-06-2015, 05:59 PM
Simon Rodger delivered superb quality from set pieces
Whenever we got a corner from the right hand side it almost felt like we'd been awarded a penalty, such was the quality of his delivery.

Typical Palace
22-06-2015, 07:40 PM
Has anyone got any stats on Jolly Rodgers corners? I know he delivered relatively good ones, but I don't recall Palace being particularly prolific from them. Certainly nothing like the Mark Kennedy corners onto the head of Leon Cort, scenario. I seem to remember feeling that the influence of SR corners was over stated. I may have that wrong, but I seem to recall it being one of those Alan Smith-isms, you know... [nasal drawl] 'Jolly's corners are the best in the division... Bobby Bowry is the best passer I've ever seen... the world is George Ndah's oyster... Chrissie is very sorry for smoking cannabis and will be back in the team soon...'

I doubt there are any of those kind of stats from that day, that could easily tell us. Anybody fancy watching a series of CPFC season reviews to see how many SR corners we scored from?

Who exactly do people remember scoring from all these SR corners? Armstrong? Coleman?

jaspercpfc
22-06-2015, 08:35 PM
Who exactly do people remember scoring from all these SR corners? Armstrong? Coleman?

McGoldrick was probably more prolific in providing assists than Jolly was. Jolly had a real purple patch 1993/1994, but the team scored goals for fun. People often remember the well rehearsed near post flick on, but his out swinging corners probably resulted in more goals:

A few assists that come to mind:

Skips winner into the Kop from a deep corner 1991
Grant Watts at home to Liverpool in the league cup replay
Bobby's Bowry winner at home to Villa 1993'
Armstrong's winner to secure the title against Boro 1994'
Youngs near post header at home to Barnsley 1994'
Coleman's winner to secure promotion away to Luton 1994'
Armstrongs equaliser at home to Liverpool in the league game 1992/1993 from a Thorn flick on
Young's powerful header away to Southend 93/94
Southgates winner at home to Grimsby 93/94?
Southgates scrambled effort home to Bolton 93/94
Armstrong's near post downward header against Charlton 1994
He delivered some beautiful in-swinging balls which contributed to goals, Sunderland at home 93/94, Leeds home 1992/93 Ninja's goal at home to Luton, Shaw's goal at home to Luton from a deep cross, Salako's leveler at home to Peterborough 93/94 Southgate away to Middlesborough 1994'

His attitude in the summer of 2000' was poor, but I did value jolly as a player, and would love to have seen how he'd progressed in 1994/95' before his season was ended so early due to injury.

Stuart Austen
22-06-2015, 09:44 PM
No pal. For some reason the link doesn't work, for me anyway. When I hit 'play' it displays a message saying 'private video' (insert punchline here...). I have looked on YouTube using various searches but no joy. Any ideas?

Grim Reaper
27-07-2015, 08:53 PM
I have no reason why but that game at home to Wimbledon is one of my favourite nights at Selhurst Park.


How about the fact it was the most eventful game (Cantona incident was big but the game was pretty poor) in the history of Selhurst Park. I'd say that would be a good reason :p

And for me I had the fun of that game then my train being diverted near Rochester due to a man shooting at trains with a gun at Sole Street

What a night!! :eek:

stamford triumph
27-07-2015, 10:28 PM
For me the season was defined by the sale of Wright. I first read about his impending sale in my favourite weekly football magazine the name of which escapes me now (wasn't Match or Shoot) and I never recovered and neither did the team. It was the last time the sale of one of our players ever gave me a feeling of complete desolation. It seemed to me at the time to signal that we had given up on wanting to become an established force in the game and our subsequent slide seemed inevitable.

Latvian Eagle
27-07-2015, 10:32 PM
For some reason I always remember a poxy 0-0 draw at home to Villa from that season. I think because the season review video had a picture of Nige on the front claiming a catch from that game.

Also have memories of travelling up from Chichester on a mid week evening to play our rearranged opening game against high flying Leeds and winning 1-0. Salad doing his knee unfortunately in that match too.

Grim Reaper
28-07-2015, 05:03 AM
Palace also had the new idea of releasing 5 videos (Pictures from the Palace) during the season to provide a review of the previous 6-8 games interspersed with interviews etc.

After the first two, the club stopped doing them.

So, much like the team, even the video production just petered out!

If you watched Volume 2 you couldn't help but wonder which moron decided to put a large uneventful, unedited part of the first half at Anfield where we went 1-0 down, yet the 2nd half highlights was our 2 goals and little else. Absolute bollocks. I can only hope that the person responsible was sacked and has been forced to work at Millwall ever since.

Grim Reaper
01-08-2015, 04:33 PM
For some reason I always remember a poxy 0-0 draw at home to Villa from that season. .

Tell me about - police ejected me from the game for stage-diving into the crowd in the Holmesdale.

The person doing had short blonde hair - I had longish dark hair. Go figure.

Was that distraught I stood outside the ground - didn't want to go back home early and get found out for being ejected!!