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Shoreditch CPFC
11-03-2017, 07:43 PM
As requested separate thread. Who is on the plane? Who is starting? Who is captain?

Anyone going?

Chester
12-03-2017, 06:04 AM
All Black players have taken a battering in the first few weeks of the Super Rugby season. At least 4 went down this weekend with long term leg injuries. Good job their is a solid reserve pool but this is the Lions best chance ever.

Kiwis are certainly keeping an eye on the 6 Nations and not taking the tour lightly. Cant wait for it to get started.

Ive tickets for the Provincial Select, Maori ABs, Blues, Chiefs and final test, hopefully i can blag one to the first test too.

Cake and Eat It
12-03-2017, 07:39 AM
Would love to go, but unfortunately unable to this year. Will definitely go to 2021 in South Africa.

For me:

1. M Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jonnie Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. B Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Nowell
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. L Williams
15. Hogg

England bias - but why wouldn't I - they've just won 18 on the trot. I'd have Hartley as captain too - I dont buy into AWJ as captain as he doesn't start for me.

Shoreditch CPFC
12-03-2017, 08:29 AM
Mako on the bench for me. I think Hartley has a shout but he isn't even the best England hooker. I'd have Launchberry before Gray. Daly and Watson ahead of Nowell although if North finds form I'd prefer him. Very difficult to choose a captain. If Warburton is a starter then why not have him again but I'm not sure he is.

Adlerhorst
12-03-2017, 09:05 AM
Don't see how Warburton starts. He's not getting close to 6 or 8 and Tipuric is a much better open side.

In fact I really don't see many Welsh players making the 15. I like the scrum half and I can see arguments for halfpenny over Hogg (though personally I wouldn't. The front five is going to be English and Irish with maybe a Gray in there. North if fit and playing well would obviously make the team but it's been an awful long while and I want to see more than just one game. Faletau is also exceedingly good if fit but again 8 is loaded.

evvo111
12-03-2017, 02:02 PM
I'd have thought the sensible thing would be to base the squad around the form side, England. He did similar for the Aussie tour as Wales were doing well.

I do have reservations about Hartley being captain simply due to his disciplinary record. I am sure the AB's will target him to get him sent off. Can't really afford to risk that happening.

MasterYoda
13-03-2017, 09:37 AM
Have no problem with the side being predominantly English. Actually no, rephrase. I have no problem with the side being predominantly made up of players who play for England. Those 15s are quite different ;)

Anyway, starting from there you look at where an Irish, Scots or Welsh player may improve that side.

Second Row, half backs, one or more of the back three - there's not many standouts.

All that said you could make a case for this being the most nationally balanced Lions side in a while purely because all 4 countries have good players - no longer the need for the token Scotsman for example. Can't see Warburton being the 7 given he's behind Tipuric there this season.

For me when it's the lions I support the players on the pitch regardless of what country the play for normally, sure I have a bit of bias to the welsh as is natural, but I want the best players on the pitch especially against NZ.

saxoneagle
13-03-2017, 11:06 AM
My question on these tours is who is your best team and which players from others would improve that team. Generally the first question isn't easy to answer but in this case it is.

So who from the other nations improves England?
Furlong does.
Any of the hookers do (assuming we're comparing to DH, not George, Taylor or LCD who are all better hookers).
There's a back rower or 2 in there - Stander definitely.
The half-backs have to be Murray and Sexton, although the annoying gobby Welsh duo proved they can run them close. (FYI - that's not a go at the Welsh so much... but has anyone noticed how every half-back pairing seems to be full of gobby little shits at the moment? Other than Ford, who I'm not sure can actually speak)
Wingers - I like Daly but he isn't yet a Test wing, so probably Williams here.
Full back - Hogg and HP are way ahead of what England have (unless you put Watson there).

For me the starting 15 could be 9/10 English players but the bench would be almost entirely non-English.

1. Mako
2. Best (and possibly captain)
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Stander
7. Tipuric
8. B Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Watson
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. L Williams
15. Halfpenny

I'd have considered the Scottish hooker based on the 6N prior to Saturday, but his meltdown on Saturday tells me otherwise now.
Lawes and Warburton on the bench.
Webb, Biggar and Daly are my three backs on the bench.

Nigelbrag
13-03-2017, 11:43 AM
My question on these tours is who is your best team and which players from others would improve that team. Generally the first question isn't easy to answer but in this case it is.

So who from the other nations improves England?
Furlong does.
Any of the hookers do (assuming we're comparing to DH, not George, Taylor or LCD who are all better hookers).
There's a back rower or 2 in there - Stander definitely.
The half-backs have to be Murray and Sexton, although the annoying gobby Welsh duo proved they can run them close. (FYI - that's not a go at the Welsh so much... but has anyone noticed how every half-back pairing seems to be full of gobby little shits at the moment? Other than Ford, who I'm not sure can actually speak)
Wingers - I like Daly but he isn't yet a Test wing, so probably Williams here.
Full back - Hogg and HP are way ahead of what England have (unless you put Watson there).

For me the starting 15 could be 9/10 English players but the bench would be almost entirely non-English.

1. Mako
2. Best (and possibly captain)
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Stander
7. Tipuric
8. B Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Watson
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. L Williams
15. Halfpenny

I'd have considered the Scottish hooker based on the 6N prior to Saturday, but his meltdown on Saturday tells me otherwise now.
Lawes and Warburton on the bench.
Webb, Biggar and Daly are my three backs on the bench.

Hard to disagree with your selection apart from possibly of a few changes i would make. As Locks i would go for the pairing that have done superbly so far, Laws has been a revelation this season and Launchbury outstanding after seizing his unexpected opportunity. As for Itoje, he is a MUST in the team and so versatile, i would have him as One of my flankers(7) along with Stander(6) and Billy Vunipola(8). And my final change instead of Watson would be George North (if fully fit) is a must as he truly is world class and a player the All Blacks would be very aware off on the pitch and his capabilities of turning a game in a moment. One other possible change? would be as you stated Daly for Williams, yes he is inexperienced but such an unpredictable explosive talent that i would take the gamble and play the All Blacks at their own game for the surprise element.

Adlerhorst
13-03-2017, 01:40 PM
Now I don't see how you play Itoje in the back row. I mean where? I don't see that leaving out Stander to get Lawes in the team is a sensible choice (I don't think they'll leave Tipuric out, but I am not entirely against Itoje at 7, though if they were going down that route Warburton would have a better claim with Itoje in the second row). In fact I am not even sure Lawes is close to a certainty for the squad. Is he going ahead of Itoje or Launchbury, not for me. Is he going ahead of the two Irish locks, again no for me. I think Gray probably goes, so it is between him and AWJ for a sixth lock (assuming we take six).

saxoneagle
13-03-2017, 01:45 PM
Now I don't see how you play Itoje in the back row. I mean where? I don't see that leaving out Stander to get Lawes in the team is a sensible choice (I don't think they'll leave Tipuric out, but I am not entirely against Itoje at 7, though if they were going down that route Warburton would have a better claim with Itoje in the second row). In fact I am not even sure Lawes is close to a certainty for the squad. Is he going ahead of Itoje or Launchbury, not for me. Is he going ahead of the two Irish locks, again no for me. I think Gray probably goes, so it is between him and AWJ for a sixth lock (assuming we take six).

I'd say lock is our strongest position but, based on form, England have the best 3.

AWJ was terrible last match, great this. That's not what you need, a potential captain having shocking off days and making poor decisions.

Based on the Autumn series and 6Ns, AWJ wouldn't be in my squad... yet he'll be Gatland's captain (which I appreciate then means he'd have to be in the team I pick, but I refuse to put him in!)

saxoneagle
13-03-2017, 01:54 PM
Hard to disagree with your selection apart from possibly of a few changes i would make. As Locks i would go for the pairing that have done superbly so far, Laws has been a revelation this season and Launchbury outstanding after seizing his unexpected opportunity. As for Itoje, he is a MUST in the team and so versatile, i would have him as One of my flankers(7) along with Stander(6) and Billy Vunipola(8). And my final change instead of Watson would be George North (if fully fit) is a must as he truly is world class and a player the All Blacks would be very aware off on the pitch and his capabilities of turning a game in a moment. One other possible change? would be as you stated Daly for Williams, yes he is inexperienced but such an unpredictable explosive talent that i would take the gamble and play the All Blacks at their own game for the surprise element.

Lawes is definitely on the bench for me. Players like him and Itoje (same as Daly) could well make it for their versatility even if not the strongest in a single position.

It's noticeable that England continue to pack down with Lawes in the back row and Itoje in the second. They threw to Itoje more on Saturday, too. We're used to the 6 and a halves, but England have two 5 and a halves. Those kind of things have to come into Gatland's thinking as it makes your bench options so much better.

Playing like Friday, North is in the squad but for me he does one thing poorly: he can't read the game situations to know when to come infield and seek the ball, and when to wait his chance. He's massively improved this for Saints (who generally always need him to seek the ball lately!). Jonny May does the same thing but in reverse - he never seeks the ball. Against Italy he was glued to the wing while Italy non-rucked. George North would've had a field day there as he'd have been in the thick of it! Against NZ, I'd start the first test with 2 more defensive, positionally aware wingers, and that for me is Watson and Williams (with North, Daly, Nowell all potentials to add something different).

Shoreditch CPFC
13-03-2017, 05:25 PM
Why is everyone picking Mako as a starter? I would have thought he is an obvious finisher.

Steve in Phoenix
13-03-2017, 09:42 PM
Lions always used to have world class wingers. I don't find the likes of Williams, Zebo, Watson convincing. Joseph is not the strongest tackler and he's coming up against Sonny Bill with little help from small wingers. I think Joseph gets moved to wing to allow Gatland to bring in his big Welsh centres and Henshaw.

Hope Daly goes, one of my favorites and a perfect bench option.

Steve in Phoenix
13-03-2017, 09:44 PM
The Gray brothers may have lost their chance, they got outplayed by Launchbury and Lawes.

Moriarty has been superb, maybe they take four number 8s. Plus Haskell, Warburton, Tipuric, Stander, O'Brien

Chester
13-03-2017, 10:02 PM
Id say its highly unlikely SBW would be a starter for the ABs let alone in the matchday squad at the moment. The only way i can see it is if the injuries keep piling up and you have to remember he is coming back from major injury, seems prone to breaking down and hasnt played a game since the Olympic 7s.

furzy85
13-03-2017, 10:24 PM
wouldnt surprise me to see george in and hartley not. Furlong also looking good for a place..possible wp nel if he can get back from injury.
Itoje as a lock. Tipuric and Moriarty have had great tournaments - second and back rows very hotly contested.
murray and sexton nailed on with one of care/youngs and one of webb/laidlaw probably the former. farrell, henshaw, davies, joseph pushing for the centres. wing and fb pretty open but north will go, probably seymour too. Nowell is a great worker and a decent defender. hogg is great going forward but lacking defensively, brown is the opposite as is kearney these days.. halfpenny is off form.

nz looking like they may have some injury problems too - naholo, dagg, milner-skudder all picking up injuries this week.

saxoneagle
14-03-2017, 10:22 AM
Why is everyone picking Mako as a starter? I would have thought he is an obvious finisher.

Eddie Jones isn't coach and I wouldn't trust WG to know what one was. Mako for me is the strongest in his position, when fully fit, so starts.

Besides, finishers will be worthless in a game where you could be 30-40 points down by then!

Steve in Phoenix
14-03-2017, 10:30 AM
You do want game changers on the bench though. Faletau/Vunipola will be one and Itoje could be another considering the strength in depth of locks.

Shoreditch CPFC
14-03-2017, 11:14 AM
All change on the captaincy odds in the last few days. Warburton now favourite. I fancied a couple of quid on Itoje and Launchberry at 125:1. Now 50:1 and 33:1 respectively.

http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/lions-tour/lions-specials/to-be-named-captain

Shoreditch CPFC
14-03-2017, 11:15 AM
Sexton is good value at 33:1.

saxoneagle
14-03-2017, 12:30 PM
Sexton is good value at 33:1.

If he's captain, I give up.

Chester
19-03-2017, 11:16 PM
Just got 3 tickets to the first test as well :lux:

saxoneagle
20-03-2017, 08:41 AM
Given the weekend reactions of certain fans, I've lost all interest in the Lions. Hope Gatland picks his favourites and leaves England to rebuild. Shame he won't.

Steve in Phoenix
20-03-2017, 04:46 PM
CJ Stander player of the tournament for me.

Quite a few players failed to impress in the final round. Moriarty struggled against Picamoles. Itoje and B Vunipola didn't play that well. Don't see the hype about Murray, Rhys Webb is a better player IMO.

ebyeeckeagle
20-03-2017, 04:54 PM
Murray is a sure starter. Has to be.

Agree about Stander but need to make sure he is never interviewed - his accent winds me up. Bad enough with an England captain sounding like a strangulated North Islander.

Seba
20-03-2017, 05:24 PM
Lions always used to have world class wingers. I don't find the likes of Williams, Zebo, Watson convincing. Joseph is not the strongest tackler and he's coming up against Sonny Bill with little help from small wingers. I think Joseph gets moved to wing to allow Gatland to bring in his big Welsh centres and Henshaw.

Hope Daly goes, one of my favorites and a perfect bench option.

I photographed Elliott Daly back in early 2011 playing for Whitgift in the Daily Mail Schools Cup so it's amazing to see him not only turning out for England but also being considered for the Lions tour.

Got a colleague going over for the whole tour. Really rather jealous!

Shoreditch CPFC
21-03-2017, 03:55 PM
The Telegraph has him in their team as do I. They also have Mako Vunipola which we were discussing earlier. Eight englishmen seems a lot. Based on that team you'd probably have Farrell as captain:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/03/21/mick-clearys-lions-xv-six-nations-2017-conclusion/billy-vunipola/

Steve in Phoenix
21-03-2017, 04:43 PM
Murray is a sure starter. Has to be.



Why "has to be"? What does he do?

saxoneagle
21-03-2017, 05:36 PM
Why "has to be"? What does he do?

He understands Sexton, for one, who is the Lions key to even keeping a test match close, let alone winning one.

Webb, the only other choice, is just a whiny little shit who will annoy SH refs and leave us on the wrong end of 50/50s.

Who would you have at 9?

MasterYoda
21-03-2017, 08:01 PM
is just a whiny little shitisn't that a minimum requirement for a scrum-half?

MasterYoda
21-03-2017, 08:04 PM
The Telegraph has him in their team as do I. They also have Mako Vunipola which we were discussing earlier. Eight englishmen seems a lot. Based on that team you'd probably have Farrell as captain:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/03/21/mick-clearys-lions-xv-six-nations-2017-conclusion/billy-vunipola/

Can't see the team for the first test being within 5 players of that.

saxoneagle
21-03-2017, 08:44 PM
isn't that a minimum requirement for a scrum-half?

It is for Messrs Webb, Murray and Care, that's for sure!

Dawson and Austin Healey were the leading lights on that score :D

evvo111
28-03-2017, 01:27 PM
Nice to see other people's opinions about who should make the team

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/definitive-lions-xv-experts-picked-12803029

Shoreditch CPFC
29-03-2017, 07:58 PM
A few surprises in there. I rate Daly but I thought he'd be battling North not Williams. I've just never really noticed Ken Owens but must be highly rated! Once again Mako in. A little surprised Wyn Jones is picked at the moment.

Elephant with mouse gyp
03-04-2017, 08:17 PM
Nice to see other people's opinions about who should make the team

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/definitive-lions-xv-experts-picked-12803029

Hard to argue with that side. Webb edged Murray in the Ireland Wales game, but Murray is better overall and him and Sexton are a tremendous pair.

Surprised the Welsh centres came close as they had a below par tournament. Also surprised Warburton got so many votes for openside. The talk is he will be captain, but you'd want the captain to be a shoo-in. I'd always pick Faletau for any team anywhere, never seen him make a mistake, and he'd be up for one last NZ tour. Then you'd have Faletau, Murray, Sexton and Farrell - all really clever players where many games are decided.

hong_kong_hg
03-04-2017, 08:33 PM
Just got 3 tickets to the first test as well :lux:

Magnificent, see you in Auckland buddy! :lux:

MasterYoda
07-04-2017, 08:14 AM
Nice to see other people's opinions about who should make the team

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/definitive-lions-xv-experts-picked-12803029

Wouldn't be a terrible side for sure. Reading the comments I certainly wouldn't be against Denny Solomona making the squad - could be this tours Jason Robinson.

ChiswickEagle
09-04-2017, 08:58 PM
Quite what Christian Wade has to do to get selected for England is beyond me. I reckon he might be on the Lions plane.

Shoreditch CPFC
17-04-2017, 02:29 AM
Sinckler apparently in line to make the cut: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/04/15/exclusive-kyle-sinckler-earns-lions-call-up-surprise-selection/

Adlerhorst
17-04-2017, 05:54 AM
Quite what Christian Wade has to do to get selected for England is beyond me. I reckon he might be on the Lions plane.he might be, but what stops him being picked by England is his defence, or lack thereof.

Steve in Phoenix
18-04-2017, 07:54 AM
BBC reporting Launchbury and Joseph won't be selected. Gatland favours bigger centres as we suspected and they say he'll pick Wyn Jones and Ryan as locks. I wouldn't take Joseph as a centre either but I think he could have been a winger.

Adlerhorst
18-04-2017, 08:20 AM
George Ford apparently not picked either. I cannot understand the Launchbury omission at all, even if they only take five with one or two of the back rows providing cover

CPFC247
18-04-2017, 11:28 AM
Squad all depends on how Gatland is planning to play out in NZ. I guess he will try and play a more Welsh based game of containment/defence, with then big guys to make holes in attack and a good counter attacking backline.

His choices on the back row interest me most as those will really give us a clue on how he plans to play. Warburton at captain for instance, a player who is excellent in defence and at turnover, but rather lacking in ball carrying.

ChiswickEagle
18-04-2017, 11:32 AM
he might be, but what stops him being picked by England is his defence, or lack thereof.

This is not a dig at you as you are largely echoing what the papers continue to say but his defence is streets ahead of where it was, listen to what Dai Young says about him. If anything, I would say that Jones doesn't pick him due to his preferred structure/style of play but it is one hell of a try machine to ignore...

Adlerhorst
18-04-2017, 12:00 PM
Streets ahead of where it was doesn't make it good. Did you see the Sale game a month or two back?

ChiswickEagle
18-04-2017, 12:42 PM
Streets ahead of where it was doesn't make it good. Did you see the Sale game a month or two back?

None of the defence turned up that day. Did you see the try saving tackle he made early in the Bath away game in March? One can point out sloppy defending for any winger, one can't point out his try scoring ability to any other English winger save Ashton and perhaps Solomona (btw, I see every Wasps game home and away, domestic or Europe unless on holiday).

saxoneagle
18-04-2017, 08:10 PM
None of the defence turned up that day. Did you see the try saving tackle he made early in the Bath away game in March? One can point out sloppy defending for any winger, one can't point out his try scoring ability to any other English winger save Ashton and perhaps Solomona (btw, I see every Wasps game home and away, domestic or Europe unless on holiday).

Try saving tackles v Saints and Bristol last two weeks, too. His defence is better than May, who Jones sees as a project.

See you at Quins :hi:

ChiswickEagle
19-04-2017, 07:46 AM
Try saving tackles v Saints and Bristol last two weeks, too. His defence is better than May, who Jones sees as a project.

See you at Quins :hi:

Indeed and beers on you if I remember correctly!

Shoreditch CPFC
19-04-2017, 08:30 AM
Joseph and Launchbury very unlucky if the reports are true. I guess we should have guessed Warrenball would be the style regardless of the form teams performances in the 6N.

EagleSE24
19-04-2017, 09:18 AM
Warburton has been named Lions captain.

Son of Ron
19-04-2017, 09:36 AM
Warburton has been named Lions captain.

Shocker - not even the best captain Wales have got, and yet he's made Lions captain again, only the 2nd man in the long and illustrious history of Lions rugby to have that honour.

Adlerhorst
19-04-2017, 10:11 AM
Warburton has been named Lions captain.which means he'll be playing seven. He's not even the best seven in Wales.

furzy85
19-04-2017, 10:30 AM
Jamie Roberts is rumoured- he's been poor for a couple of years now.. Gatland and his faves.. :(

Payney
19-04-2017, 10:51 AM
Jamie Roberts is rumoured- he's been poor for a couple of years now.. Gatland and his faves.. :(

If Roberts makes the squad it really is a joke selection, Well past it.

I can sort of see why Gatland would go with Warburton as captain again even though is form has been patchy but Roberts, Jesus.

Shoreditch CPFC
19-04-2017, 10:55 AM
Telegraph saying Roberts is not in after all

furzy85
19-04-2017, 11:13 AM
and roberts is not in.. jared payne though! ???

Payney
19-04-2017, 11:19 AM
Forwards:

Rory Best (Ireland), Dan Cole (England), Taulupe Faletau (Wales), Tadhg Furlong (Ireland), Jamie George (England), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), George Kruis (England), Courtney Lawes (England), Joe Marler (England), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Ross Moriarty (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Peter O'Mahony (Ireland), Ken Owens (Wales), Kyle Sinckler (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Billy Vunipola (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Sam Warburton (Wales)

Backs:

Dan Biggar (Wales), Elliot Daly (England), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Owen Farrell (England), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland), Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Jonathan Joseph (England), Conor Murray (Ireland), George North (Wales), Jack Nowell (England), Jared Payne (Ireland), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Tommy Seymour (Scotland), Ben Te'o (England), Anthony Watson (England), Rhys Webb (Wales), Liam Williams (Wales), Ben Youngs (England)

Shoreditch CPFC
19-04-2017, 11:26 AM
41 players! Why did everyone think it would be 37? Launchberry the unluckiest guy. George over Hartley makes sense given his impact from the bench. Heaslip is unlucky but Moriarty looked pretty decent in the 6N. Watson is lucky because he was useless against Ireland. I assume his club form has improved since? Shame no late bolters.

furzy85
19-04-2017, 11:43 AM
Surprises for me are Moriarty - though he did have a good 6N so not too worried and the full back options of Payne and Halfpenny - i really dont know what Payne offers and Halfpenny is only good these days for his goal kicking and since Sexton and Farrell should be on the pitch he shouldnt be needed. I didnt expect Brown to get selected (Kearney and Liam Williams instead) but to be below Payen and ha'penny is a bit of a kick.


Still, 5 or 6 of these will get injured and replacements will need be called up. Fingers crossed for some of the unlucky this time around.

ChiswickEagle
19-04-2017, 07:48 PM
With the amount of tour games injuries may require late call ups, like Wade last time.

Very disappointed for Launchbury. With Nowell and Daly going, Wade should get a run against Argentina, hopefully he can use the opportunity to make a persuasive case. Wasps could have a significant number in the squad for Argentina, Launchbury, Wade, Robson, Thompson, Jones, Taylor, Hughes and old stagers like Haskell and Mullan, perhaps Simpson

Scotland's No9
19-04-2017, 10:34 PM
My support / understanding of the game is limited to a bit of playing at school and watching the 6N, Workd Cup and Lions. Can someone help me why Laidlaw wasn't even discussed as a potential Lion. What does he lack?

Adlerhorst
19-04-2017, 11:13 PM
He's a good player, but main flaws for me are slow distribution (for a scrum half) and he isn't what you would call a sniping runner. Ultimately though there are probably four who would be picked ahead of him, and the four nations are not blessed with a great scrum half at the moment either (all of those four have faults). Murray is the likely starter, and then you have Webb and Youngs who are very different but both quite a way ahead of Laidlaw for me.

MasterYoda
20-04-2017, 08:01 AM
I must admit I think it's crazy how many Welsh have been picked compared to the Scots. If we lose the series then everything will point back here.

Gatland already persona non grata in Ireland (despite ultimately being proved correct) and now he's never crossing Hadrian's wall again.

Let's see how it all pans out I guess. I suspect with the toughness of the fixtures off the back of a long season we'll probably be 5 players down from our preferred XV by the time we get to the second test. Even with a squad of 41 I'd be surprised if more don't get called in.

What's Shane up to? :D

Shoreditch CPFC
20-04-2017, 09:01 AM
With the amount of tour games injuries may require late call ups, like Wade last time.

Very disappointed for Launchbury. With Nowell and Daly going, Wade should get a run against Argentina, hopefully he can use the opportunity to make a persuasive case. Wasps could have a significant number in the squad for Argentina, Launchbury, Wade, Robson, Thompson, Jones, Taylor, Hughes and old stagers like Haskell and Mullan, perhaps Simpson

No Wade http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-name-squad-for-argentina-tour/

ChiswickEagle
20-04-2017, 09:54 AM
No Wade http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-name-squad-for-argentina-tour/

Extraordinary!

Steve in Phoenix
20-04-2017, 10:51 AM
He's a good player, but main flaws for me are slow distribution (for a scrum half) and he isn't what you would call a sniping runner. Ultimately though there are probably four who would be picked ahead of him, and the four nations are not blessed with a great scrum half at the moment either (all of those four have faults). Murray is the likely starter, and then you have Webb and Youngs who are very different but both quite a way ahead of Laidlaw for me.

Wasn't Laidlaw injured as well which pretty much cost him his chance?

Excellent kicker and tactical brain.

Steve in Phoenix
20-04-2017, 10:54 AM
No Wade http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-name-squad-for-argentina-tour/

Be interesting to see how Sam Underhill gets on, big prospect apparently.

Mallinder and Marchant two stars from the U20s and the controversial Denny Solomona too.

WLYWLYAWYPWF
20-04-2017, 11:10 AM
Extraordinary!

Simpson never gets a sniff either. Their faces clearly don't fit.

furzy85
20-04-2017, 11:33 AM
I dont think this is a normal touring side though - rumours are that argentina will be pretty understrength and that there is an agreement between the two sets of coaching teams to keep things 'even'.

It looks like to me that Jones is wanting to have a look a lot of new players (most of them young) whilst keeping the core of the current team (Hartley, Robshaw, Care, Brown, Ford, Haskell etc) to nurture them and also show them what is expected of international starters. There is no way for instance that Jack Maunder is ahead of Simpson/Robson or that Cokanasiga (Championship) or Earle (handful of games for sarries) are ahead of wade, rokoduguni or yarde in the pecking order.

My understanding of wades defensive frailty is that its never been down to his ability to make tackles - more his ability to be in the right place.

WLYWLYAWYPWF
22-04-2017, 08:07 AM
My understanding of wades defensive frailty is that its never been down to his ability to make tackles - more his ability to be in the right place.

A bit like Hennessy and making saves.

saxoneagle
25-04-2017, 12:48 PM
Indeed and beers on you if I remember correctly!

Delayed reply... but yes, I owe you a few!

I'll text you our box number on Friday :D

saxoneagle
25-04-2017, 12:49 PM
No Wade http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-name-squad-for-argentina-tour/

Couldn't believe that squad tbh.

saxoneagle
25-04-2017, 12:51 PM
I dont think this is a normal touring side though - rumours are that argentina will be pretty understrength and that there is an agreement between the two sets of coaching teams to keep things 'even'.

It looks like to me that Jones is wanting to have a look a lot of new players (most of them young) whilst keeping the core of the current team (Hartley, Robshaw, Care, Brown, Ford, Haskell etc) to nurture them and also show them what is expected of international starters. There is no way for instance that Jack Maunder is ahead of Simpson/Robson or that Cokanasiga (Championship) or Earle (handful of games for sarries) are ahead of wade, rokoduguni or yarde in the pecking order.

My understanding of wades defensive frailty is that its never been down to his ability to make tackles - more his ability to be in the right place.

That's rubbish about Wade. I can't think of a try which has been solely his fault this season but I can think of double digit try saving tackles.

Anyway, this thread is about the Welsh Lions, not Jones' England.

evvo111
29-04-2017, 09:44 AM
Some interesting tales from previous tours http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/incredible-tales-lions-tours-decades-12960922

evvo111
16-05-2017, 05:08 AM
:eek: “Ian McLauchlan came towards me to see how I was just as I went to blow my nose, but it was blocked and because the sinus was cracked the air blew into my eye socket which inflated like a balloon.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/blood-curdling-inside-story-lions-13037406

Shoreditch CPFC
18-05-2017, 08:29 PM
McGeechan reckons Farrell should start at 10...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/ian-mcgeechan-owen-farrell-has-to-start-at-10-for-the-lions-next-month-35711865.html

saxoneagle
21-05-2017, 06:04 AM
Another performance yesterday where Wade didn't miss a tackle and included a try saver. But he can't defend.

Another performance yesterday where Launchbury led, carrried, tackled, stole and covered every blade, despite picking up s knock in the first half.

Gatland's loss(es).

Langers
21-05-2017, 08:01 PM
England and Saracens number eight Billy Vunipola has withdrawn from the Lions tour to New Zealand with a shoulder injury.

Bugger!

Shoreditch CPFC
21-05-2017, 08:43 PM
England and Saracens number eight Billy Vunipola has withdrawn from the Lions tour to New Zealand with a shoulder injury.

Bugger!

Bloody shame. Haskell called up ahead of Heaslip is a bit surprising.

Steve in Phoenix
22-05-2017, 07:02 AM
Huge loss, Billy was one of the few players that would have had an edge on the AB's. Hopefully Faletau can rediscover his form. Bit surprised it was Haskell but I would guess they consider him a good soldier for the midweek team.

ChiswickEagle
22-05-2017, 09:52 AM
Despite being a Wasps man, this has surprised me too. Haskell has not been as good since returning from his toe injury.

ebyeeckeagle
28-05-2017, 10:40 PM
Haskell looked very average yesterday.

Launchbury. Just again makes the choice look more baffling.

saxoneagle
31-05-2017, 11:50 AM
Haskell looked very average yesterday.


Made 22 tackles...

Payney
31-05-2017, 12:11 PM
10 games far too many for a tour these days, Should be 3 warm ups and 3 tests.

God knows what the first test 15 will look like after the squad has been beaten up by every hatchet man in NZ in the warm ups. Rugby is far too physical these days for a 10 game tour.

Anyway..moan over. Still very much looking forward to it but can't see the Lions winning a test unfortunately.

saxoneagle
31-05-2017, 01:01 PM
10 games far too many for a tour these days, Should be 3 warm ups and 3 tests.

God knows what the first test 15 will look like after the squad has been beaten up by every hatchet man in NZ in the warm ups. Rugby is far too physical these days for a 10 game tour.

Anyway..moan over. Still very much looking forward to it but can't see the Lions winning a test unfortunately.

The should also be playing the regions, not the SR franchises.

ChiswickEagle
01-06-2017, 11:35 AM
Made 22 tackles...

His inability to catch the ball did not go unnoticed by team mates...

saxoneagle
02-06-2017, 10:05 AM
His inability to catch the ball did not go unnoticed by team mates...

Ha, yes... they might want to buy him some glue for his mitts.

Worksop Palace
03-06-2017, 09:43 AM
Pretty average today but not sure its any indicator of substance

Adlerhorst
03-06-2017, 09:48 AM
What style did they play?

hughff
03-06-2017, 10:58 AM
Ugly. It looked like exactly what it was, a first match by a team that hasn't worked out how to play together yet.

Adlerhorst
03-06-2017, 11:17 AM
Thanks. How did Sinckler play?

(Have high high hopes for him)

evvo111
03-06-2017, 11:51 AM
From Walesonline http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/lions-player-ratings-stuart-hogg-13132194

Kyle Sinckler 7 - Now has the rare distinction of having started a game for the Lions before starting one for his country. Showed up really well with his handling, only to blot the copy book with his last act, taking a quick tap of a kickable penalty that ended with him being pinged for not releasing.

RazorsEdge
03-06-2017, 12:39 PM
I missed the game but going by BBC it looks like we were poor

Shoreditch CPFC
03-06-2017, 01:18 PM
we were poor but Sinckler was excellent. On that performance he could push for a starting place. Sexton and Hogg were both awful. Really worried about fullback.

hughff
03-06-2017, 10:27 PM
I missed the game but going by BBC it looks like we were poor

It's worth clicking on the three links at the bottom and reading the reactions of the NZ based press. A word about the authors

Phil Gifford is parochial and a staunch All Blacks man - he made very few concessions to the circumstances of the match.
Mark Reason is equally parochial but he's not a kiwi - he immigrated from England a few years ago and remains a staunch Brit. His father was John Reason (who was even more anti-All Blacks than Stephen Jones) and it shows. The fact that he is so critical of the Lions shows that they did not play well at all.
Gregor Paul is fairly objective though still, of course, skewed by his kiwi culture - he wrote this worrying sentence, "And while many of the Lions' difficulties could be attributed to the inevitable bedding-in period they will have to endure as a scratch side with limited preparation time, they need to be careful not to think that was at the heart of their inadequacies."

RazorsEdge
04-06-2017, 08:46 AM
It's worth clicking on the three links at the bottom and reading the reactions of the NZ based press. A word about the authors

Phil Gifford is parochial and a staunch All Blacks man - he made very few concessions to the circumstances of the match.
Mark Reason is equally parochial but he's not a kiwi - he immigrated from England a few years ago and remains a staunch Brit. His father was John Reason (who was even more anti-All Blacks than Stephen Jones) and it shows. The fact that he is so critical of the Lions shows that they did not play well at all.
Gregor Paul is fairly objective though still, of course, skewed by his kiwi culture - he wrote this worrying sentence, "And while many of the Lions' difficulties could be attributed to the inevitable bedding-in period they will have to endure as a scratch side with limited preparation time, they need to be careful not to think that was at the heart of their inadequacies."



Thanks just did :)

saxoneagle
05-06-2017, 07:39 AM
we were poor but Sinckler was excellent. On that performance he could push for a starting place. Sexton and Hogg were both awful. Really worried about fullback.

We all know it's going to be Halfpenny.

And Sexton was the Sexton of old, back in the times when he was trying to hard to win the green jersey from ROG. He gets wound up, he makes mistakes and he compounds them. Dude needs to chill or he's riding the pine for the tests (which I think he should be anyway, but being objective, you know...).

Shoreditch CPFC
05-06-2017, 08:28 AM
Team for weds: LIONS TEAM TO FACE BLUES

L Halfpenny (Wales), J Nowell (England), J Payne, R Henshaw (both Ireland), E Daly (England), D Biggar, R Webb (both Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Owens (Wales, capt), D Cole, M Itoje, C Lawes, J Haskell (all England), J Tipuric (Wales), CJ Stander (Ireland). Replacements: R Best (Ireland), J Marler, K Sinckler (both England), I Henderson, P O'Mahony (both Ireland), G Laidlaw (Scotland), J Sexton (Ireland), L Williams (Wales).

I think the team next Saturday will have a lot of test starters. The following will start: Farrell, Murray, North, Williams, Davies. Furlong, George, Vunipola, Kruis, O'Mahony, O'Brien. So who will play centre, fullback 2nd row and 8 will be very interesting. You would think the captain should start, so maybe they are going to play O'Brien at 8? Either way I'm sure Faletau will get some decent game time. After Teo's strong game I'd give him a start next to Davies. Would like to see Itoje but he's starting on Weds. Stuart Hogg probably gets an early chance to redeem himself.

Eagle's Nest
05-06-2017, 08:50 AM
I don't mind that it was a tough opening game. I'm not sure how useful it would be to canter to a 50-0 win as it provides you with no focus.

Tomorrow will be very tough and it would be great if we can hold our own against some well drilled super rugby teams.

Shoreditch CPFC
05-06-2017, 08:54 AM
Weds not tomorrow.

Eagle's Nest
05-06-2017, 09:00 AM
I'm on sabbatical, I've lost track of what day it is.

hughff
06-06-2017, 09:38 PM
Today's game is, for me, more crucial than the Crusaders. The Blues have, for the last couple of seasons, been the bottom of the NZ Super Rugby pile whereas the Crusaders are on a 14 game winning run. Therefore, a Lions loss on Saturday will be chalked up to form and the Cantabs' cohesion.

But the Blues can't go wrong - if they lose, well so what? They're the worst super team, notoriously less than the sum of their parts. And if they win, they're giant killers. The Lions aren't going to be able to sell the jet-lag justification anymore.

Of course losing isn't the end of the world. The only games that really count are against the All Blacks - ask the 1973 Poms, whose only win was the test. Even so, a Lions loss today would be a very bad look.

hong_kong_hg
07-06-2017, 09:36 AM
Shambolic Lions performance, pathetic from 1 to 23. The Crusaders will rout them by 20 or 30+

hughff
07-06-2017, 10:04 AM
Ihaia is one of my former pupils so I'm glad he scored the winner.

For me, it was again the lack of teamwork, flair and sometimes discipline from the BIL. They still look like they're playing pre-season friendlies.

EagleSE24
07-06-2017, 10:10 AM
Didn't see the game today. Is it likely the Lions will win another game on tour?

Shoreditch CPFC
07-06-2017, 10:39 AM
It will be a much stronger Lions team on Sat but it will need to be. I only saw first 20 mins and last 15 today but I think Rory Best has probably blown his shot. Really had (have) high hopes for Liam Williams but from what I saw both he and Nowell were poor today. Williams will get another shot on Saturday. Sounds like Daly was ok without pulling up trees.

furzy85
07-06-2017, 10:57 AM
Watched the first half and thought things were much better than the first game - thought we deserved to be leading at ht and would have been had it not been for a bit nz luck. Having said that, the blues reacted quicker than us to the pen hitting the post.
A couple of interesting calls from the ref.. almost letting the offside try count, allowing a mark that wasnt from a clean catch etc but not enough to mask the clear lack of creativity that the lions showed when going forward. If we're going to get close in the tests it'll have to be through forward dominance.
Sounds like poor discipline ruined us in the second half which is at least something we can get better at in the short-term.
Not surprised the lineout went wrong at the end - i mean.. rory best..

saxoneagle
07-06-2017, 10:59 AM
It will be a much stronger Lions team on Sat but it will need to be. I only saw first 20 mins and last 15 today but I think Rory Best has probably blown his shot. Really had (have) high hopes for Liam Williams but from what I saw both he and Nowell were poor today. Williams will get another shot on Saturday. Sounds like Daly was ok without pulling up trees.

Neither hooker played that well, but the Welsh was better in the loose. Best's butchered throw was terrible, but the Welsh had one similar early on.

Generally the pack looked good and had the Blues going backwards. CJ's penalty in the 40th minute was stupid. Haskell has nailed himself a midweek spot.

In the backs, Webb looked good. Biggar started well then faded but his replacement wasn't much better. Nowell's gas let him down more than once, but we know he isn't the quickest. His all round game today though was way below average, disappointed for him. Daly had a decent game I thought - didn't get much ball in hand but setup a good chance which Payne (?) should've scored and kicked/chased better than anyone else in the side.

Oh, and Liam Williams? Should be shot. One tackle in the air which should've been a yellow, escaped with just penalty... then did the EXACT same thing minutes later! I actually thought it was a replay at one point! Total knob.

Unlike hong_kong, I wouldn't say it was shambolic but it'll be interesting to see what backs he picks going forward. Lots of pressure now to actually create momentum and chances at pace, which we haven't done yet.

saxoneagle
07-06-2017, 11:00 AM
Watched the first half and thought things were much better than the first game - thought we deserved to be leading at ht and would have been had it not been for a bit nz luck. Having said that, the blues reacted quicker than us to the pen hitting the post.
A couple of interesting calls from the ref.. almost letting the offside try count, allowing a mark that wasnt from a clean catch etc but not enough to mask the clear lack of creativity that the lions showed when going forward. If we're going to get close in the tests it'll have to be through forward dominance.
Sounds like poor discipline ruined us in the second half which is at least something we can get better at in the short-term.
Not surprised the lineout went wrong at the end - i mean.. rory best..

Oh yes, the discipline. Lost the final count, but it was 12 penalties in the first 60 minutes FFS!

Shoreditch CPFC
07-06-2017, 11:23 AM
So given he has promised everyone a start and then picking the strongest team (taking out any starters from today) I would guess he would start the following on Sat:

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Kruis
AWJ
O'Mahony
Warburton
O'Brien
Murray
Farrell
North
Te'o
Davies
Williams
Hogg

I would prefer to play Faletau and have Warburton on the bench but I think you have to start your captain. I'm sure he'll come on. Sexton will probably come on with Farrell moving to 12 which could well be a tactic for the last 20 or 30 mins against the all blacks.

saxoneagle
07-06-2017, 11:43 AM
Dan Biggar has concussion.

Shoreditch CPFC
08-06-2017, 07:56 AM
So given he has promised everyone a start and then picking the strongest team (taking out any starters from today) I would guess he would start the following on Sat:

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Kruis
AWJ
O'Mahony
Warburton
O'Brien
Murray
Farrell
North
Te'o
Davies
Williams
Hogg

I would prefer to play Faletau and have Warburton on the bench but I think you have to start your captain. I'm sure he'll come on. Sexton will probably come on with Farrell moving to 12 which could well be a tactic for the last 20 or 30 mins against the all blacks.
Team as expected except Warburton not in squad http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40197836

saxoneagle
08-06-2017, 10:29 AM
Another Welsh captain.

SkyBet refused to give me odds on a Welsh captaining all 10 matches. Probably because it's a ******* shoe-in.

I reckon that's 10-11 of the Test side right there.
George - unlikely test starter but a good showing could get him in. Unlikely, it'll be a Welsh probably.
AWJ/Kruis - shouldn't even be in the squad IMO. Surely Itoje starts the tests and Lawes has been a beast of late. If Lawes isn't in the XV, he's got to be on the bench.
O'M - Warburton to come in for the tests
Williams - Watson for me in the tests.
Hogg - This is LHP's jersey. Hogg isn't good enough to take it off him.

Shoreditch CPFC
08-06-2017, 11:19 AM
bit negative there. I think Kruis is actually pretty likely to be a starter in the tests but lets see how he plays on Saturday. Itoje will be a test starter or on the bench given that he can provide back row cover. AWJ needs a really big game. Watson hasn't got much time to find form but he could end up fighting Daly for a bench spot as both can cover full back. If Williams is shit again then he's out. If Hogg doesn't play better than last week then he quite rightly should be at risk but if he does play well I can't see Halfpenny getting in.

Seems to me we have loads of players coming back from injury or with niggles. Not sure that is going to work for us.

saxoneagle
09-06-2017, 10:28 AM
bit negative there. I think Kruis is actually pretty likely to be a starter in the tests but lets see how he plays on Saturday. Itoje will be a test starter or on the bench given that he can provide back row cover. AWJ needs a really big game. Watson hasn't got much time to find form but he could end up fighting Daly for a bench spot as both can cover full back. If Williams is shit again then he's out. If Hogg doesn't play better than last week then he quite rightly should be at risk but if he does play well I can't see Halfpenny getting in.

Seems to me we have loads of players coming back from injury or with niggles. Not sure that is going to work for us.

You've got to be joking on LHP.

He's Welsh. He can kick goals. He can tackle. Gatland doesn't want any fancy-schmancy stuff. Hogg would have to absolutely run wild on Saturday to get near the test team!

He's one of 4/5 absolute certainties for the test side IMO.

And my point re. Kruis wasn't so much he doesn't deserve a spot - he's come straight back from injury and straight in whereas he should've been behind quite a few based on form and performances in the last 6 months. I'd still go any 2 or the 3 English locks for the tests - it's the one position where surely Gatland can't overlook us.

saxoneagle
09-06-2017, 10:29 AM
Although, on the subject of coaching oddities, EJ has picked 3 bloody fly-halves in England's team for the first test! A Ford-Loz-Slade axis looks like quite an interesting one!

Shoreditch CPFC
09-06-2017, 11:00 AM
You've got to be joking on LHP.

He's Welsh. He can kick goals. He can tackle. Gatland doesn't want any fancy-schmancy stuff. Hogg would have to absolutely run wild on Saturday to get near the test team!

He's one of 4/5 absolute certainties for the test side IMO.

And my point re. Kruis wasn't so much he doesn't deserve a spot - he's come straight back from injury and straight in whereas he should've been behind quite a few based on form and performances in the last 6 months. I'd still go any 2 or the 3 English locks for the tests - it's the one position where surely Gatland can't overlook us.

You might be right re Halfpenny. Hogg was player of the 6N for the last 2 years so its disappointing if he is overlooked. Think it will depend on tomorrow. If AWJ plays well he has a good case given his experience. I would currently prefer the English lads based on form.

Adlerhorst
09-06-2017, 11:53 AM
Although, on the subject of coaching oddities, EJ has picked 3 bloody fly-halves in England's team for the first test! A Ford-Loz-Slade axis looks like quite an interesting one!if I were an opposing outside centre I would be quite looking forward to that.

saxoneagle
09-06-2017, 12:31 PM
if I were an opposing outside centre I would be quite looking forward to that.

Orlando and de la Fuente are probably thinking exactly that.

Slade could be like Harrison last year - binned after half an hour!

EagleSE24
10-06-2017, 09:27 AM
Excellent performance.

evvo111
10-06-2017, 09:32 AM
Much better. Some of our passing could have been a bit more accurate but a really improved performance.

ebyeeckeagle
10-06-2017, 09:33 AM
Shambolic Lions performance, pathetic from 1 to 23. The Crusaders will rout them by 20 or 30+

Not quite.

Still not a fan of this squad or coach, but there's been some usual overreaction to just a couple of matches.

Shoreditch CPFC
10-06-2017, 09:45 AM
Much better today. Crusaders made a lot of unforced errors but they were under pressure. Glad Sexton played better. You could end up with 3 England bench players starting the tests! (George, Mako and Teo)

Adlerhorst
10-06-2017, 10:03 AM
I kinda assume that has to be the 9-10-12 combination.

Nigelbrag
10-06-2017, 11:04 AM
Much more like it, we played with a purpose in mind after last weekends poor performance.

MasterYoda
11-06-2017, 03:42 PM
I kinda assume that has to be the 9-10-12 combination.

Not sure - I think he fancies Farrell at ten and sexton can't play 12 against the ABs.

Think Biggar plays midweek ten, Farrell tests and Sexton is the bench boy.

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 08:17 AM
See Biggar is being rushed back from his concussion. Rugby is very slow on the uptake.

Shoreditch CPFC
12-06-2017, 09:11 AM
Very honest from Warburton. I don't think he starts the first test. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/11/sam-warburton-dont-know-make-lions-starting-xv-first-test/

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 09:17 AM
Fair play, but farcical. Guess that puts AWJ back in the XV if Warburton is out.

Adlerhorst
12-06-2017, 10:11 AM
Would be totally ridiculous. Warburton's spot in the team was barely clear cut and AWJ shouldn't even be on the tour.

Shoreditch CPFC
12-06-2017, 10:15 AM
Don't you guys think AWJ played well on Saturday? I think there is a lot of anti Welsh bias on here which is a shame as usually once the Lions is underway that all goes out the window. I understand it because Gatland picked too many Welshman but you don't discard experience lightly.

Shoreditch CPFC
12-06-2017, 10:21 AM
Think I agree with most of the Telegraph's current test team although I think Sexton will start on the bench, probably for Jonathan Davies. I'd also think Stander will get the nod ahead of O'Mahony. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/10/should-start-lions-first-test/taulupe-faletau/

Davy64
12-06-2017, 10:21 AM
Don't you guys think AWJ played well on Saturday? I think there is a lot of anti Welsh bias on here which is a shame as usually once the Lions is underway that all goes out the window. I understand it because Gatland picked too many Welshman but you don't discard experience lightly.

I thought he was not only an excellent player but leader as well. Really impressed with Watson, quality player. I'd be quite happy to see him stay at 15

Adlerhorst
12-06-2017, 10:33 AM
Don't you guys think AWJ played well on Saturday? I think there is a lot of anti Welsh bias on here which is a shame as usually once the Lions is underway that all goes out the window. I understand it because Gatland picked too many Welshman but you don't discard experience lightly.

Not as well as Launchberry played (couldn't resist) and definitely not as well as Kruis played. So I cannot have him in ahead of Kruis, so basically AWJ would be playing ahead of Itoje and that's a definite no no for me.

If we're going to win, hell if we're going to compete we need to be as strong as possible in the pack. And our best lock combination, or pack combination if you think of moving say Itoje to the back row, does not include AWJ for me.

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 10:55 AM
Not as well as Launchberry played (couldn't resist) and definitely not as well as Kruis played. So I cannot have him in ahead of Kruis, so basically AWJ would be playing ahead of Itoje and that's a definite no no for me.

If we're going to win, hell if we're going to compete we need to be as strong as possible in the pack. And our best lock combination, or pack combination if you think of moving say Itoje to the back row, does not include AWJ for me.

Agreed.

Shoreditch CPFC
12-06-2017, 11:05 AM
Its certainly interesting that Itoje isn't in the squad tomorrow. Does that mean he'll start on Saturday? If so with Kruis or AWJ? What if Lawes plays out of his skin (again) tomorrow? We always knew 2nd row would be the most competitive area...

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 11:05 AM
Think I agree with most of the Telegraph's current test team although I think Sexton will start on the bench, probably for Jonathan Davies. I'd also think Stander will get the nod ahead of O'Mahony. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/10/should-start-lions-first-test/taulupe-faletau/

Most of that seems reasonable, but like Adler - Itoje has to start for me... so maybe he goes instead of POM? Can't see that though - POM played well at the weekend, is a lineout threat and is a natural back-rower, which Itoje isn't yet.

I'd also be amazed if Owens isn't hooker, George on the bench.

The Sexton/Farrell thing worked well on Saturday but I can't see Gatland using it to start the test - he's hardly ever done that before and would be a big risk now. So I agree that he'll likely go Farrell at 10.

Think Watson and Williams had good games on Saturday, too, but not sure both will make the test team. If one does, which is possible, I think the safety options of Nowell/LHP have to be the other one. Like I said before, LHP is a Gatland favourite and barely misses a kick so I can't see past him.

Mako
Owens
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
Warbs (if fit, otherwise Itoje, with AWJ in 2nd row. I still reckon Warbs makes it.)
SOB
Faletau
Murray
Farrell
Watson
Davies
Te'o
North
LHP

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 11:06 AM
And if that's the test backs, then Webb and Sexton are nailed on for the bench plus Williams or Daly.

The pack is much more a jumble.

saxoneagle
12-06-2017, 11:07 AM
Its certainly interesting that Itoje isn't in the squad tomorrow. Does that mean he'll start on Saturday? If so with Kruis or AWJ? What if Lawes plays out of his skin (again) tomorrow? We always knew 2nd row would be the most competitive area...

Yep, Lawes has been excellent already. There is a list of about 8 locks the Lions could've taken!

Steve in Phoenix
12-06-2017, 02:54 PM
Itoje and Daly make perfect bench players..

Unconvinced by our wingers, would rather see Joseph or Daly. Sonny Bill is going to be a handful.

furzy85
12-06-2017, 03:23 PM
Don't you guys think AWJ played well on Saturday? .

that knock on in the nz 22 that lead to them running the length of the pitch, and the subsequent deliberate offside once the player had already been tackled was absolute rubbish. Shouldnt be on the tour.

Dont know why Warburton or Gatland are surprised about him not having any game time.. if you take an injured player thats what happens...

Owens, Farrell, Faletau all playing themselves into starting positions, watsons looked sharp and sexton is getting better with every game (admittedly from a very low base in the babas game). Thought Murray had a good game and shades webb, but not too much in it. Been impressed with Te'o who has really grasped his opportunity.

Interesting to see who Gatland calls up if Hoggs tour is over - whether he brings in a fullback replacement or opts for a wing and uses williams/daly/payne/watson as fb options.

Adlerhorst
13-06-2017, 07:07 AM
Confirmed Hogg is out of the tour. No immediate call up of a replacement

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 07:15 AM
Itoje and Daly make perfect bench players..



You mean other than the fact Itoje is one of the best locks in world rugby?

Sure, let's have him ride the pine! :D

Cake and Eat It
13-06-2017, 07:20 AM
For me, given what I have seen so far:

1. Mako
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. O'Mahony
7. SOB
8. Falatau
9. Murray
10. Farrell
11. Williams
12. Teo'o
13. JD2
14. Daly
15. Watson

16. Marler
17. Sinckler
18. Owens
19. AWJ / Lawes
20. Stander
21. North / JJ
22. Sexton
23. Webb

AWJ did better at the weekend, and he probably sneaks into my 23 due to leadership and experience, but he isn't even in the top 5 locks in the UK at the moment - Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Gray, Launchbury all ahead of him. How Launchbury didn't tour is beyond me.

North didn't look anything special at the weekend, which is par for the course with his form. But he does offer you a big option in the last 20. He's a big man but his tackling is jelly baby like, so I don't buy the argument that he is in for his defense.

Sinckler is marginal with Cole for me, but he is in as he adds something different.

George starts as he is a class above all other hookers at the moment. He is also a great leader. Owens did well, but then George took the bar up a notch. Owens solid bench though - Best shouldn't be on tour.

Itoje and Kruis is the easiest decision Ill ever make.

Against the ABs you can't play Farrell and Sexton, therefore Farrell is in - he's the Lions best player.

Difficult leaving JJ out of the squad - he is something a bit different - but theres only 23 spots!

Adlerhorst
13-06-2017, 08:11 AM
Well I doubt Lawes is playing any part in the first test. Just got knocked out

alf
13-06-2017, 08:12 AM
A forward pass on the 25m line to set up the Highlanders first try. Right under the touch judges nose. It annoys me that players get away with this too often, especially in try scoring situations.

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 09:07 AM
A forward pass on the 25m line to set up the Highlanders first try. Right under the touch judges nose. It annoys me that players get away with this too often, especially in try scoring situations.

It's the NZ way. Flowing rugby. I don't mind as long as this is refereed fairly!

Steve in Phoenix
13-06-2017, 09:15 AM
You mean other than the fact Itoje is one of the best locks in world rugby?

Sure, let's have him ride the pine! :D

What I mean is that they both offer multi-positional flexibility in replacing players and are extremely dynamic in their impact.. they can change the game. That's what you want from substitute players when the game hangs in the balance and is often won in the last 10 minutes. The power of players coming off the bench is a major part of the international game now.

Itoje and Daly are two of my favourite players to watch but with our strength in depth of locks, its an option that could give them a tactical edge.

cpfc4evandeva
13-06-2017, 09:22 AM
Cracking match. Can't help but think that NZ are going to destroy us in the tests though.

Cake and Eat It
13-06-2017, 09:24 AM
AWJ definitely not starting the tests now, surely.

Abysmal.

Warburton looks injured, think Biggar might be reasonably bad too.

Shoreditch CPFC
13-06-2017, 09:35 AM
Not great. Shocking to see the scrum destroyed at the end. I think Cole has had his day. I hope Lawes isn't too bad as he was playing well.

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 09:37 AM
We can probably rule Lawes out of the first test. Warburton looked laboured (as he'd already warned us he would). Biggar looked good, then bad, then good, then bad - not consistent enough for the tests ATM. Seymour looked poor under the high ball but had a decent game after a slow start. Nowell still off the pace, looks to be suffering from a long season. Cole looked shot in the scrums, which we'd done well in until he came on. Payne looked OK at FB, interesting that he tried Daly there at the end, too.

Lots to pick at for Gatland.

Shoreditch CPFC
13-06-2017, 09:44 AM
If Lawes is concussed call up Launchberry.

Adlerhorst
13-06-2017, 09:54 AM
Behold the rise and rise of Sinckler!

(I know it is too early but he's going to be a star)

Shoreditch CPFC
13-06-2017, 10:01 AM
he needs to stop giving away penalties though.

WLYWLYAWYPWF
13-06-2017, 10:10 AM
Behold the rise and rise of Sinckler!

(I know it is too early but he's going to be a star)

Don't like him since I found out he's a wankers fan.

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 12:18 PM
A future England pack of Genge, George, Sinckler, Launchbury, Ewels, Itoje, Curry, Billy V would be amazing (all 26 or under), with the likes of Mako, LCD, the other Curry, Mercer in the wings...

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 12:19 PM
Don't like him since I found out he's a wankers fan.

And plays for Queenies.

saxoneagle
13-06-2017, 12:20 PM
If Lawes is concussed call up Launchberry.

Launchbury should tell Gatland to GFH as he's busy with England.

RazorsEdge
13-06-2017, 07:49 PM
A future England pack of Genge, George, Sinckler, Launchbury, Ewels, Itoje, Curry, Billy V would be amazing (all 26 or under), with the likes of Mako, LCD, the other Curry, Mercer in the wings...

There is my dream team right there :p

Daddy Long
14-06-2017, 07:08 AM
AWJ, Warburton and Stander have surely played themselves out of the starting test side. On what I've seen so far I'd be picking:

Mako
George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
O'Mahoney
O'Brien
Faletau
Murray
Farrell
Daly
Teo/ Henshaw (I'm undecided)
Joseph
North
Halfpenny

Bench-
Marler
Owens
Sinkler
Lawes (if fit)
Tipuric
Webb
Sexton
Watson

Jerry Murphy's Fringe
14-06-2017, 07:35 AM
If Lawes is concussed call up Launchberry.

Should have been there anyway. Would love it if he turned up at short notice and the made the most tackles and carries in the first test.

Shoreditch CPFC
14-06-2017, 08:08 AM
AWJ, Warburton and Stander have surely played themselves out of the starting test side. On what I've seen so far I'd be picking:

Mako
George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
O'Mahoney
O'Brien
Faletau
Murray
Farrell
Daly
Teo/ Henshaw (I'm undecided)
Joseph
North
Halfpenny

Bench-
Marler
Owens
Sinkler
Lawes (if fit)
Tipuric
Webb
Sexton
Watson

I reckon that is pretty close but can you really see a test side without any of the 3 captains we've had so far in it and only 1 on the squad? I think Watson starts. Not sure Daly has done enough yet either, much as I like him. Probably Teo and Davies in the centres but its wide open.

saxoneagle
14-06-2017, 08:38 AM
Agreed about the captaincy - if Warburton isn't fit, AWJ will steal an undeserved spot.

saxoneagle
14-06-2017, 08:38 AM
Oh, and Lawes injury only adds to that argument, too.

Shoreditch CPFC
15-06-2017, 08:26 AM
Interesting team and bench: L Halfpenny; A Watson, J Davies, B Te’o, G North; J Sexton, C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong, G Kruis, M Itoje, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, T Faletau. Replacements: K Owens, J McGrath, K Sinckler, I Henderson, S Warburton, G Laidlaw, O Farrell, E Daly.

Surprised Williams didn't make the bench but Daly can cover centres too. Presumably Lawes not available and AWJ played last 2 games so I'm not sure we really know 2nd row combination yet. Henderson did play pretty well on Tuesday but I can't believe he's ahead of the other 2. I guess he wants to give Sexton a chance to play with his preferred back line and will then switch to bring Farrell on at half time and then he can decide who starts the tests. Similarly I reckon Warburton comes on at half time, probably for O'Mahony. Webb must have a knock not to make the bench. Glad Sinckler made the bench.

Shoreditch CPFC
15-06-2017, 08:31 AM
bollocks, Farrell is injured:

Owen Farrell has suffered a grade one quadriceps strain in training and has been ruled out of the British & Irish Lions match against Maori All Blacks on Saturday evening.

The England and Saracens playmaker will be replaced on the bench by Wales fly-half Dan Biggar.

Shoreditch CPFC
15-06-2017, 08:36 AM
Apparently the same injury kept him out for a month a few years ago. I wold call up Ford as a precaution. He played out of his skin against Argentina.

Selhurst Celtic
15-06-2017, 03:24 PM
Send for more Irish players.

Worksop Palace
15-06-2017, 03:49 PM
Send for more Irish players.

We want to win the series though Jimbo

Nostrils
15-06-2017, 09:27 PM
Send for more Irish playas.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l_c1gHU1odQ/UQJ-vkTzpCI/AAAAAAAAt80/LlAuXvFHN18/s320/britney-spears-dating-colin-farrell.jpg

http://www.annturkel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ann1.jpg

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/daniel-o-donnell-october-1987-singer-from-ireland-wearing-denims-stripped-to-the-waist1.jpg

Daddy Long
15-06-2017, 10:01 PM
I've no idea why Laidlaw was called up to replace Youngs. He really offers very little other than an accurate short range place kicking option. Should have been Care.

saxoneagle
16-06-2017, 07:22 AM
It appears now Gatland is going to call up 5 or 6 more players as "midweek cover" and they are likely to be selected from the Welsh and Irish sides.

The Lions tours can go in the bin if this carries on, complete farce.

saxoneagle
16-06-2017, 07:23 AM
If Launchbury (cover for Lawes) and Ford (for Farrell) aren't the next off the rank, then it shows Gatland for the coach he is.

Shoreditch CPFC
16-06-2017, 08:24 AM
It appears now Gatland is going to call up 5 or 6 more players as "midweek cover" and they are likely to be selected from the Welsh and Irish sides.

The Lions tours can go in the bin if this carries on, complete farce.

where did you hear that?

saxoneagle
16-06-2017, 08:31 AM
where did you hear that?

Quite a few journos reporting it:
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/19650619/british-irish-lions-call-reinforcements-midweek-games

CommercialStone
16-06-2017, 09:39 AM
All Blacks putting a few on the board this morning....

Shoreditch CPFC
16-06-2017, 11:02 AM
Quite a few journos reporting it:
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/19650619/british-irish-lions-call-reinforcements-midweek-games

Seems a bit odd. Its been a long season followed by an overseas tour and then they get asked to be cannon fodder for midweek Lions games to protect the first team?

saxoneagle
16-06-2017, 01:33 PM
Seems a bit odd. Its been a long season followed by an overseas tour and then they get asked to be cannon fodder for midweek Lions games to protect the first team?

2005 Lions got criticised for picking too many players and the final squad being too big.

This squad STARTED the same size so adding 5 would make it the biggest Lions squad ever.

And yes, being asked to just take hits for the team. Screw that.

No journo seems to think it's a good idea, with a couple suggesting national bodies might refuse requests!

Adlerhorst
17-06-2017, 06:01 AM
Some Welsh people added this morning. One of which I haven't heard of.

Apparently Lions call ups are now based on geography rather than any kind of ability.

Worksop Palace
17-06-2017, 07:58 AM
Some Welsh people added this morning. One of which I haven't heard of.

Apparently Lions call ups are now based on geography rather than any kind of ability.

Gatland has lost the 'kin plot

Shoreditch CPFC
17-06-2017, 08:16 AM
This kind of shit must affect the squad. I don't think I've read any comment that agrees with the decision on replacements.

Steve in Phoenix
17-06-2017, 08:21 AM
Maoris relying on a kicking game and hoping for defensive errors. Makes me laugh after that "whatsapp" group.

evvo111
17-06-2017, 08:22 AM
The team are doing ok today. A silly mistake for their try apart I think all of them have done well. The number 13 and number 4 have been my pick of the bunch so far.

Adlerhorst
17-06-2017, 08:51 AM
Ooooh a try. Though penalty try seems somehow apt

evvo111
17-06-2017, 08:55 AM
Good try by the Lions.

Worksop Palace
17-06-2017, 08:55 AM
Ooooh a try. Though penalty try seems somehow apt

And another

At least we're smashing them up front

Still no quality backs play though (appreciate weather doesn't help). We won't smash the Blacks up front so really do need to get the backs working better

Nostrils
17-06-2017, 08:58 AM
What channel is it on please? I can't find it.

evvo111
17-06-2017, 08:59 AM
What channel is it on please? I can't find it.

It's on Sky but cricfee are covering it.

Nostrils
17-06-2017, 09:01 AM
Thanks evvo, I completely missed that somehow.

ellioteagle1
17-06-2017, 09:02 AM
Live media player?

Steve in Phoenix
17-06-2017, 09:05 AM
Still no quality backs play though (appreciate weather doesn't help). We won't smash the Blacks up front so really do need to get the backs working better

It's the other way around for me. No way the Lions will match the AB's in the backs, it's the superb forwards that give us hope.

Agree we do need to see the backs playing a bit more in the last 30 mins. Its encouraging to see some good play from Davies though.

Worksop Palace
17-06-2017, 09:06 AM
It's the other way around for me. No way the Lions will match the AB's in the backs, it's the superb forwards that give us hope.

Agree we do need to see the backs playing a bit more in the last 30 mins. Its encouraging to see some good play from Davies though.

We won't beat the AB just by good front play. They're too strong for that.

Nostrils
17-06-2017, 09:10 AM
Live media player?
Got it. Thanks elliot.

evvo111
17-06-2017, 09:13 AM
We won't beat the AB just by good front play. They're too strong for that.

I think you need your backs to try and put defence first against the All Blacks as they are such a danger. If you can stop, or at least limit, their attacking threat then an exceptional forward display could beat them.

Steve in Phoenix
17-06-2017, 09:16 AM
The Lions beat the unbeaten Crusaders (with an all Black front five) so that's what I hope to see in the Tests. The AB's back line is too well drilled and has great finishers against our defensively weak wingers.

evvo111
17-06-2017, 09:28 AM
Well played The Lions. My stand out players were 4,8,13 and 14.

Shoreditch CPFC
17-06-2017, 09:33 AM
Maoris relying on a kicking game and hoping for defensive errors. Makes me laugh after that "whatsapp" group.

What whatsapp group?

Shoreditch CPFC
17-06-2017, 09:35 AM
Thought the Maori were very poor and we weren't great 1st half. Improved 2nd half.

Daddy Long
17-06-2017, 06:46 PM
Itoje has to start after that performance. It will be a very interesting selection in the second row. Will Gatland's Wales bias see AWJ play over Kruis and Itoje?
I'd rather have Joseph at 13 than Davies - I think he's defensively stronger and better with ball in hand. It won't happen though

hughff
17-06-2017, 11:40 PM
After the weekend's games there's an obvious question to ask - what are the relative strengths of the Maori ABs and Manu Samoa?

Adlerhorst
18-06-2017, 09:54 AM
Itoje has to start after that performance. It will be a very interesting selection in the second row. Will Gatland's Wales bias see AWJ play over Kruis and Itoje?
I'd rather have Joseph at 13 than Davies - I think he's defensively stronger and better with ball in hand. It won't happen though

It may. He's been left out of the midweek match.

Lions team to face Chiefs:

L Williams (Wales); J Nowell (England), J Payne (Ireland), R Henshaw (Ireland), E Daly (England); D Biggar (Wales), G Laidlaw (Scotland); J Marler (England), R Best (Ireland), D Cole (England), I Henderson (Ireland), C Lawes (England), J Haskell (England), J Tipuric (Wales), C Stander (Ireland).

Replacements:

K Dacey (Wales), A Dell (Scotland), T Francis (Wales), C Hill (Wales), AW Jones (Wales), G Davies (Wales), F Russell (Scotland), T Seymour (Scotland).

saxoneagle
19-06-2017, 07:30 AM
I mean, really. That is possibly the weakest bench ever.

And Gatland did say that NO Test Lions would play midweek. That rules out any of the starting XV, and I bet AWJ won't get off the bench to keep him for the tests.

You can pretty much name the Test XV and bench now.

Jerry Murphy's Fringe
19-06-2017, 08:26 AM
It may. He's been left out of the midweek match.

Lions team to face Chiefs:

L Williams (Wales); J Nowell (England), J Payne (Ireland), R Henshaw (Ireland), E Daly (England); D Biggar (Wales), G Laidlaw (Scotland); J Marler (England), R Best (Ireland), D Cole (England), I Henderson (Ireland), C Lawes (England), J Haskell (England), J Tipuric (Wales), C Stander (Ireland).

Replacements:

K Dacey (Wales), A Dell (Scotland), T Francis (Wales), C Hill (Wales), AW Jones (Wales), G Davies (Wales), F Russell (Scotland), T Seymour (Scotland).

Don't see Launchbury on the list so he must be starting the Test ...... Oh no, hang on, silly me.

evvo111
20-06-2017, 08:36 AM
The Lions are doing well at present. The Scottish player who came off the bench looked good whilst he was on.

cpfc4evandeva
20-06-2017, 08:48 AM
How do head injuries work these days in rugby? Should Lawes really be playing?

saxoneagle
20-06-2017, 09:13 AM
How do head injuries work these days in rugby? Should Lawes really be playing?

He will have had a head injury assessment at the time and then assessed for severity. After that, he goes onto a varied level of RTP (Return to Play) protocols.

In severe cases, they won't even be allowed to train for 2 weeks and undergo almost constant monitoring.

Less severe, they can be back playing within 7-10 days although many medical professionals think there should be a minimum time applied for all cases regardless.

I think the NFL has a minimum time away from playing for concussions.

Adlerhorst
20-06-2017, 09:14 AM
Let's not forget Lawes was knocked out in the match last week.

I am a little astonished he is playing at all today.

saxoneagle
20-06-2017, 09:20 AM
Let's not forget Lawes was knocked out in the match last week.

I am a little astonished he is playing at all today.

You do know being knocked out and being concussed aren't the same thing, right?

One can lead to the other, but not necessarily.

And as such, the treatments are different.

cpfc4evandeva
20-06-2017, 09:25 AM
Thanks.

Good performance but Chiefs were pretty crap really.

Adlerhorst
20-06-2017, 09:29 AM
You do know being knocked out and being concussed aren't the same thing, right?

One can lead to the other, but not necessarily.

And as such, the treatments are different.

Yes but also detecting concussion is very difficult, hence why doctors want a ban from playing for x days following a head injury, because another head injury whilst suffering a concussion (whether detected or otherwise)......

evvo111
20-06-2017, 09:29 AM
Pleased with that. Some good performances and difficult to think of a bad one. Haskell, Tipuric and Daly were the best of the bunch IMO.

Shoreditch CPFC
20-06-2017, 09:34 AM
Williams and Nowell also showed what they can do against tired defences. Competition for the bench will be intense and North and Watson need to have good games on Saturday.

Bit surprised Stander played. Who is the back up number 8? O'Brien?

Adlerhorst
20-06-2017, 09:53 AM
Daly's substitution feels like a bench spot move for Saturday

saxoneagle
20-06-2017, 10:01 AM
Gatland has said that the midweek 23 won't feature on Saturday. We'll soon see, I guess.

saxoneagle
20-06-2017, 10:03 AM
Williams and Nowell also showed what they can do against tired defences. Competition for the bench will be intense and North and Watson need to have good games on Saturday.

Bit surprised Stander played. Who is the back up number 8? O'Brien?

I guess it must be SOB, because neither SW or POM have much experience there, do they?

I have to admit though, I'm generally finding it hard to motivate myself to watch matches now. I was actually really looking forward to this tour but now it's all a bit meh.

saxoneagle
20-06-2017, 10:03 AM
(Also - see other rugby thread... Doddie Weir has MND :( )

Shoreditch CPFC
20-06-2017, 10:09 AM
I think concerns about how tough the warm up games were going be have been proved wrong. They've mostly been good competitive affairs and in some cases a bit too weak given the absence of All Blacks over the last couple of games. Maybe Gatland does know what hes doing...

I'm certainly enjoying the tour but it does feel like Lions fans are more divided than usual. Hopefully that is not the case in NZ.

Shoreditch CPFC
20-06-2017, 10:24 AM
Also a heck of a lot more togetherness on this tour than we had with Woodward 12 years ago. The midweek team are playing for each other and some of those guys will get involvement over the series.

All the locks are playing so bloody well I honestly think AWJ is 5th choice now and he has also been playing well!

evvo111
21-06-2017, 07:07 PM
Lions: L Williams, A Watson, J Davies, B Te’o, E Daly, O Farrell, C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong, A W Jones, G Kruis, P O’Mahony (capt), S O’Brien, Faletau.

Reps: K Owens, J McGrath, K Sinckler, M Itoje, S Warburton, R Webb, J Sexton, L Halfpenny.

All Blacks team: 1. Joe Moody (25) 2. Codie Taylor (16) 3. Owen Franks (91) 4. Brodie Retallick (61) 5. Samuel Whitelock (85) 6. Jerome Kaino (78) 7. Sam Cane (41) 8. Kieran Read (97) - Captain 9. Aaron Smith (59) 10. Beauden Barrett (50) 11. Rieko Ioane (2) 12. Sonny Bill Williams (34) 13. Ryan Crotty (26) 14. Israel Dagg (62) 15. Ben Smith (61)

Replacements: 16. Nathan Harris (5) 17. Wyatt Crockett (59) 18. Charlie Faumuina (47) 19. Scott Barrett (5) 20. Ardie Savea (13) 21. TJ Perenara (30) 22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7) 23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)

Shoreditch CPFC
21-06-2017, 07:17 PM
Well some on here said he'd never drop Halfpenny and North... I don't agree with the AWJ call but at least Itoje is on the bench. Williams was pretty decent on Tuesday. Shame the backs haven't really played together yet though.

evvo111
21-06-2017, 07:21 PM
I agree about AWJ. Unless he was going to be captain then I wouldn't have him in on his form so far. I'm glad Daly and Davies are in.

Langers
21-06-2017, 07:21 PM
Interesting team and choice of captain - strong looking bench - let's hope we are still in the game after an hour

MasterYoda
21-06-2017, 07:22 PM
North not done enough but genuinely shocked HP not playing given kicking stats on the tour so far

saxoneagle
21-06-2017, 07:50 PM
Gatland has said that the midweek 23 won't feature on Saturday. We'll soon see, I guess.

Clearly Gatland was lying :supergrin:

saxoneagle
21-06-2017, 07:52 PM
North not done enough but genuinely shocked HP not playing given kicking stats on the tour so far

I guess with Farrell fit, kicking stats weren't relevant.

saxoneagle
21-06-2017, 07:55 PM
Itoje is one of the three best players in Europe. He's in form. He's capable of playing 80minutes at high intensity. For his age, he has plenty of experience. He's a player NZ have scouted more than any other and weren't looking forward to playing.

Ridiculous call. AWJ is the 5th best lock on the tour. Hasn't remotely earned his place.

saxoneagle
22-06-2017, 09:12 AM
As an aside, is Daly the first Croydon-born, Palace-supporting Lion? :D

furzy85
22-06-2017, 09:37 AM
one of warburton or jones was always going to start.
tbh i was expecting there to be more than one selection i was unhappy with (north, halfpenny, warbs, best etc) so its not too bad really.

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 07:35 AM
664285 on live media player

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 07:39 AM
That's an excellent tackle.

aj4england
24-06-2017, 07:48 AM
any other streams?

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 07:57 AM
That was a little embarrassing.

saxoneagle
24-06-2017, 07:57 AM
That's the series gone.

SJ'sLoveMonkey
24-06-2017, 07:58 AM
That's the series gone.

What after 20 minutes of the first test?!

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 08:02 AM
What after 20 minutes of the first test?!

We won't win the series unless we win this test. NZ are really very very good. They're quite obviously the better team out there. At the breakdown in particular. The speed of ball they get going forward is remarkable.

Seba
24-06-2017, 08:05 AM
any other streams?

This one is good... apart from the score

http://buffstream.com/watch/event/lions-vs-all-blacks/link-2

SJ'sLoveMonkey
24-06-2017, 08:12 AM
We won't win the series unless we win this test. NZ are really very very good. They're quite obviously the better team out there. At the breakdown in particular. The speed of ball they get going forward is remarkable.

I totally agree but to say the series is gone after 20 minutes is a bit premature I reckon. Having said that I might review my opinion after an hours play! :D

SJ'sLoveMonkey
24-06-2017, 08:15 AM
Comeback is on!

ExiledStirling
24-06-2017, 08:16 AM
******* fantastic try

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 08:16 AM
That was a really intelligent try. Always had their heads up.

SJ'sLoveMonkey
24-06-2017, 08:19 AM
Superb try

dim
24-06-2017, 08:19 AM
Magnificent

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 08:21 AM
That was a mental five minutes

evvo111
24-06-2017, 08:23 AM
Fantastic try to get us back in it. The All Blacks are so powerful. COME ON YOU LIONS!

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 08:26 AM
Fantastic try to get us back in it. The All Blacks are so powerful. COME ON YOU LIONS!
There were so many ways that try could have gone wrong. The bit I really loved was Daly stepping just a little inside to draw the man to ensure Davis remained free. So many wingers would have chanced their pace there.

Eagle Kneevil
24-06-2017, 08:27 AM
Lions had their chances. They just need to prevent the All Blacks getting through their phases.

Adlerhorst
24-06-2017, 08:28 AM
I suppose the other good news was that apart from one moment where one of the centres was just a little bit out of position the line held.

Kylie_Tracey
24-06-2017, 08:28 AM
needed that conversion