PDA

View Full Version : Newcastle and West Ham Raided by HMRC


Blind_Eagle
26-04-2017, 08:35 AM
Apparently both clubs were raided by the police earlier this morning.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/10851357/newcastle-united-and-west-ham-raided-by-police-on-wednesday-morning

dmf73
26-04-2017, 08:35 AM
Points deduction?

Maidstoned Eagle
26-04-2017, 08:36 AM
That bhas all the hallmarks of a bbser posting something on the bbs, without any further info.....just to be first.

SEEPEEEFFSEE
26-04-2017, 08:37 AM
Good, both have corrupt ownership. 10 points deduction for both please.

ExiledStirling
26-04-2017, 08:43 AM
Linked to Pardew or Allardyce?

Palace next ?

:)

Shipp Ahoy!
26-04-2017, 08:43 AM
Relegate them!

Based on their leagues this season ;)

Blind_Eagle
26-04-2017, 08:45 AM
That bhas all the hallmarks of a bbser posting something on the bbs, without any further info.....just to be first.

Beyond that there is currently nothing but rumour and speculation at present.

Feel free to shove it up on here if that's your preference.

alpha
26-04-2017, 08:48 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/newcastle-and-west-ham-raided-by-hmrc-after-transfers-investigation-a7702521.html

art malice
26-04-2017, 08:53 AM
Are dildoes tax-deductible?

Payroll Legend
26-04-2017, 08:55 AM
Are dildoes tax-deductible?

Yes, yes they are.

Payroll Legend
26-04-2017, 08:56 AM
Relegate them!

Based on their leagues this season ;)

Give Newcastle and West Ham -10 in the prem for next season. Cigars out for everybody else

elgin eagle
26-04-2017, 08:57 AM
Good job we don't have any recent transfer dealings with Newcastle.

AJ's right boot
26-04-2017, 08:57 AM
Be hilarious if Newcastle get a transfer ban. Rafa will be go and then that's one of next seasons bottom three sorted.

art malice
26-04-2017, 08:58 AM
Yes, yes they are.

That's not fair. If you take it out, you need to plough it back in.

Boyandy
26-04-2017, 09:03 AM
Knowing our luck it'll be something to do with the Tomkins and Townsend deals!

Del Fenner
26-04-2017, 09:06 AM
Are dildoes tax-deductible?

Uniform allowance surely.

elgin eagle
26-04-2017, 09:09 AM
Knowing our luck it'll be something to do with the Tomkins and Townsend deals!

Gayle? Pardew? In the shady world of undisclosed transfer dealings I can't say i'm surprised. Or that these 2 clubs will be the only ones under investigation. Just a hunch though. As long as we have our house in order that's the main thing.

SEEPEEEFFSEE
26-04-2017, 09:10 AM
Be hilarious if Newcastle get a transfer ban. Rafa will be go and then that's one of next seasons bottom three sorted.

I think he'll go anyway when that lover of all things Lonsdale refuses to back him properly in the summer.

Yoda
26-04-2017, 09:10 AM
I bet every league club has been frantically reviewing their procedures today, or shredding like crazy!

tsunamiman
26-04-2017, 09:15 AM
Purely speculation but I think it's dodgy transfer dealings with Marsielle. Arrests in france and both did odd deals with buying and then selling back players to them. (Thauvin and Payet).

Good job we're not doing something similar with them...oh wait.

eastend eagle
26-04-2017, 09:20 AM
Are dildoes tax-deductible?
Depends very much on your line of work. If you're a sex worker or a politician then yes they are.

SilentAssassin
26-04-2017, 09:25 AM
Oh good, I hope Brady is involved in this. That'll look good on the Tory party in the election race.

EagleSE24
26-04-2017, 09:45 AM
Sun report suggests that neither club will face a points deduction. What this is based on I have no idea. It's just a standalone line in the article.

swissroll
26-04-2017, 09:53 AM
Looking at the scale of this and number of arrests, if goes to court and convictions then I suspect relegation a division or 2 will be the outcome

averity
26-04-2017, 10:06 AM
was some good news to wake up to all of this lol. although they will only get a fine as they are premier league sweethearts

dave_who_ru
26-04-2017, 10:07 AM
Knowing our luck it'll be something to do with the Tomkins and Townsend deals!

If that was the case I think they might have paid us a visit at the same time.

According to the BBC there were also seizures and arrests in France so not us.

MasterYoda
26-04-2017, 10:11 AM
Haven’t West Ham already screwed the tax payer out of enough money?

costello
26-04-2017, 10:34 AM
There was a time (Brooking, Bonds) when I liked West Ham as a football club.

palacea
26-04-2017, 10:42 AM
Telegraph saying investigation extends to other clubs in England too.

greybot
26-04-2017, 10:44 AM
Telegraph saying investigation extends to other clubs in England too.

All a bit worrying tbh

AndyStreet
26-04-2017, 10:53 AM
The Premier League has only imposed one points deduction ever for a very specific event which is expressly provided for in their rules.

eagle mart
26-04-2017, 10:55 AM
I imagine it's contracts, net/gross salary declarations and image rights / Bonuses.

Agents are probably levering clubs into awkward positions regarding image rights, etc. And gross salaries. And if you are paying a contractor (rather than a permanent employee)- as such perhaps they would expect that contractor to settle their own tax liabilities.

Bryan
26-04-2017, 10:56 AM
Havenít West Ham already screwed the tax payer out of enough money?

LOL!

Selhurst Celtic
26-04-2017, 10:57 AM
Linked to Pardew or Allardyce?

Palace next ?

:)

The rozzer are still stuck in traffic trying to get to Selhurst.

Teflon Phil is furiously trying to flush the fax machine down the toilet as we speak.

hdeagle
26-04-2017, 11:03 AM
Imagine if West Ham have no ground and have to go to Orient with their cap in hand to ask for a ground-share.

COYP

palacea
26-04-2017, 11:03 AM
Teflon Phil is furiously trying to flush the fax machine down the toilet as we speak.

He's sat there calmly carrying on, as if anyone falls it won't be him.

Polak
26-04-2017, 11:11 AM
Could it be that Newcastle wanted to bring in players on zero hour contracts?

hdeagle
26-04-2017, 11:11 AM
Newcastle's managing director Lee Charnley has been arrested and it has been reported that there have been other arrests at both Newcastle and West Ham.

180 officers have been involved in these raids which have also taken place in France.

This could mean serious trouble for all the clubs and officials involved in the transfer deals being investigated for fraud.

averity
26-04-2017, 11:13 AM
If West Ham are found guilty of this, basically stealing off the tax payers. After the tax payers pretty much gave them their ground and running costs for **** all. Then they deserve a massive sanction! Takes the piss!

mroakley9
26-04-2017, 11:14 AM
Newcastle's managing director Lee Charnley has been arrested and it has been reported that there have been other arrests at both Newcastle and West Ham.

180 officers have been involved in these raids which have also taken place in France.

This could mean serious trouble for all the clubs and officials involved in the transfer deals being investigated for fraud.

COYP

Scroatey
26-04-2017, 11:40 AM
When I heard there was a link to France I thought Pardew might be involved, he never seemed to get behind the Maginot Line on his scouting trips.

kabbott
26-04-2017, 11:45 AM
When I heard there was a link to France I thought Pardew might be involved, he never seemed to get behind the Maginot Line on his scouting trips.

I thought Owngoal would already have been on here questioning how we ever spent money on Mandanda. Something dodgy must have gone on in that deal, not to mention the fact that he's a lot older than his "official" age.

elgin eagle
26-04-2017, 12:06 PM
COYP

Police? :)

art malice
26-04-2017, 12:08 PM
PAYE

Maiden Eagle
26-04-2017, 12:10 PM
COYP

LOL !!

TAK
26-04-2017, 12:12 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/26/newcastle-west-ham-raided-hmrc-tax-fraud-investigation-transfers-lee-charnley-arrested

Also be wary all those laughing until we get a clean bill of health, I feel this is just the start of it.

dave_who_ru
26-04-2017, 12:13 PM
Sun report suggests that neither club will face a points deduction. What this is based on I have no idea. It's just a standalone line in the article.

If it involves illegal payments to players then a points deduction is a certainty.

Zohar's Penalty
26-04-2017, 12:13 PM
Two clubs raided for tax evasion, Barton now suspended for 18 months and Moyes fined for threatening to hit a woman reporter.

Bad day for football so far. Stage is set for Palace to restore the general public's faith in the beautiful game tonight!

eagle mart
26-04-2017, 12:13 PM
Talk about a day to bury bad news.

Joey Barton banned for 18 months. Betting.

Chris Finch
26-04-2017, 12:14 PM
Batshuayi bid
Mandanda transfer

Just sayin'

Zohar's Penalty
26-04-2017, 12:17 PM
Batshuayi bid
Mandanda transfer

Just sayin'

Would be amazed, given Steve Parish's professionalism.

Although that Mandanda fee did seem low...

:(

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 12:18 PM
BREAKING:Chelsea Also raided :D

Poosence
26-04-2017, 12:18 PM
Some of the coverage mentions possible links to transfers. Can anyone explain how income tax and NICs could have any link to transfers?

Edit - someone mentioned illegal payments to players - could be part of transfer package.

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 12:18 PM
https://twitter.com/Matt_Lawton_DM/status/857204702588436480

Payney
26-04-2017, 12:18 PM
Bit worrying regarding Marsielle and Mandanda.

We could easily get dragged into this..

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 12:19 PM
Some of the coverage mentions possible links to transfers. Can anyone explain how income tax and NICs could have any link to transfers?

you could potentially (though given the sums of money involved I don't know how) structure payment of wages to evade tax?

hdeagle
26-04-2017, 12:21 PM
Swindon and Rangers were demoted for tax evasion

Newcastle fans reactions to today's events are here :

http://www.nufcblog.com/2017/04/26/fans-staggered-by-fraud-allegations-club-could-be-relegated/

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 12:25 PM
BREAKING:Chelsea Also raided :D

wait, Chelsea, Marseille, Batshuayi, who's hardly played, and will probably go back to Marseille in the summer......now where does that sound familiar from...

eagle mart
26-04-2017, 12:28 PM
There is no way the PL would relegate Chelsea. This goes against everything they stand for - they want clubs like Newcastle and West Ham in the top flight with their 50-60k stadiums.

Imagine the 8-or 9 club demotion for next season? That would feck a few clubs up and spread the wealth a bit.

Heb 7:4
26-04-2017, 12:31 PM
Batshuayi bid
Mandanda transfer

Just sayin'

Willie McKay is the link in the West Ham/Newcastle transfers with Marseille. I think Mandanda has different representatives.

McKay does represent MacArthur though :)

Percy Dalton
26-04-2017, 12:33 PM
Would be amazed, given Steve Parish's professionalism.

Although that Mandanda fee did seem low...

:(

I would be very surprised and disappointed if we were pulled into this, as I guess most of us assume Steve Parish and the rest of the 2010 team would have been more business smart than is general in football and therefore would run the club 100% as any business should be from a legal point of view, especially after the previous two chairman.

Mandanda I assumed was sold at a assumed cheap fee on the basis that his club were in a bad financial way and needed to shift high earners. Not sure that even a low fee we have had our monies worth this season out of this deal.

kabbott
26-04-2017, 12:33 PM
Would be amazed, given Steve Parish's professionalism.

Although that Mandanda fee did seem low...

:(

All linked to age and time left on current contract IMO ...

It's funny (or probably not) that at the time it was common knowledge (at least over here in France) that Mandanda was out of contract in the summer of 2016 and so available "on a free". I was very surprised to read at the time that we'd paid a "nominal" fee (OK maybe £1m, wasn't it?) because he'd signed a one year extension to his contract.
I do hope there was nothing dodgy about the transfer!

FourtyTwo
26-04-2017, 12:34 PM
I thought I read earlier on that it was linked to income tax / NI, so suspect it would be image rights related if that were the case.

I admit the Mandanda link could be a cause for concern, but don't see the point worrying about it unless anything comes out that gives any more detail on the offences themselves, or indicates that we may be involved.

Edit - in fact the Guardian article posted earlier has the following HMRC quote:

HMRC has arrested several men working within the professional football industry for a suspected Income Tax and National Insurance fraud.

I think it will be "image right" related, so just glad we never signed Carl Asaba

eagle mart
26-04-2017, 12:35 PM
wait, Chelsea, Marseille, Batshuayi, who's hardly played, and will probably go back to Marseille in the summer......now where does that sound familiar from...

I'd be more worried if we had bid for Batshuayi and then not spent the cash on Benteke afterwards. Which makes it look all genuine.

And a sweeper keeper that we needed thanks to the two clowns we had between the sticks also sounds alright to me.

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 12:36 PM
Willie McKay is the link in the West Ham/Newcastle transfers with Marseille. I think Mandanda has different representatives.

McKay does represent MacArthur though :)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/joey-bartons-agent-willie-mckay-1287931

Also is Joey Barton's agent....it's not been a good day for him has it :D

kabbott
26-04-2017, 12:41 PM
I would be very surprised and disappointed if we were pulled into this, as I guess most of us assume Steve Parish and the rest of the 2010 team would have been more business smart than is general in football and therefore would run the club 100% as any business should be from a legal point of view, especially after the previous two chairman.

Mandanda I assumed was sold at a assumed cheap fee on the basis that his club were in a bad financial way and needed to shift high earners. Not sure that even a low fee we have had our monies worth this season out of this deal.

Marseille have been renowned for doing bad business recently, I mean before McCourt came in last summer with megabucks to spend.
They allowed quite a few players (who were high earners in France) to leave for nothing because they were not offered new contracts. These players included Gomis, who went to Swansea, Gignac, who went to play in Mexico, Nkoulou, who came to Lyon, and of course Mandanda, who we ended up paying a nominal fee for (if you can call £1m nominal) although for a long time in the press he was available "on a free"!

Martin H
26-04-2017, 12:42 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/26/newcastle-west-ham-raided-hmrc-tax-fraud-investigation-transfers-lee-charnley-arrested

Also be wary all those laughing until we get a clean bill of health, I feel this is just the start of it.

I was thinking exactly the same. We probably have several French players and who knows what goes on with so many agents involved in between these days. It would be so Palace for something like this to surface now for us but fingers crossed. I bet every club has been scrambling for info though.

kabbott
26-04-2017, 12:47 PM
For the moment the French press are really only reporting what's come out of the English press this morning. Below is a link which includes a list of all transfers between the French Ligue 1 and Newcastle. No other clubs, including West Ham, are mentioned!

https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Les-recents-transferts-des-clubs-de-l1-avec-newcastle-et-west-ham/796384

Chris Finch
26-04-2017, 01:46 PM
Batshuayi was never coming to Palace, and we were never seriously going to pay thirty million for him. It has previously been suggested on other threads that 'bid' was to hurry Chelsea along in favour of giving us Mandanda.

Littlecaesar
26-04-2017, 01:59 PM
My belief was that we bid for Batshuayi to flush out a bigger bidder and in return got Mandanda for a nominal fee. As long as we pay our tax then we haven't done anything wrong.

What this does show up is why the FA and Prem don't get the player to pay the agent not the club?

old git
26-04-2017, 02:06 PM
The case will take years to come to court I would imagine.I can't see anyone being relegated a few seasons after the alleged offence.

FourtyTwo
26-04-2017, 02:23 PM
As mentioned earlier - it is income tax / NI related, so will not be linked to transfer deals between clubs, but rather to the way in which players are paid, so could possibly be both in relation to signing on fees and ongoing payments.

It may also be about payments to agents, but surely then the clubs are not responsible for making sure that agents make the required tax payments?

wedgetail
26-04-2017, 02:33 PM
As mentioned earlier - it is income tax / NI related, so will not be linked to transfer deals between clubs, but rather to the way in which players are paid, so could possibly be both in relation to signing on fees and ongoing payments.

It may also be about payments to agents, but surely then the clubs are not responsible for making sure that agents make the required tax payments?

Not if the clubs colluded in a tax evasion scheme.

cranesparkeagle
26-04-2017, 02:39 PM
Good job we don't have any recent transfer dealings with Newcastle.


Not sur if its a joke or not

Dwight Gayle ?
Townsend
Kabaye

rudeboy
26-04-2017, 02:40 PM
Chelsea investigated by HMRC too

cranesparkeagle
26-04-2017, 02:41 PM
Talk about a day to bury bad news.

Joey Barton banned for 18 months. Betting.

Just before we play Burnley!

Coastal Palace
26-04-2017, 02:47 PM
I've heard it's Benitez that's in trouble with HMRC for not declaring his tips.

thefox
26-04-2017, 03:32 PM
Marseille, Chelsea and Newcastle. Good job we don't have any players that have played for all three of those teams.

Sam Spade
26-04-2017, 03:34 PM
I've heard it's Benitez that's in trouble with HMRC for not declaring his tips.

FACT.

FORZA SELHURST
26-04-2017, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if looking at the amount of computers, phones etc. they've taken some other nefarious stuff came to light. I certainly hope so in teefing W Ham's case.

Dom the Eagle
26-04-2017, 03:57 PM
I would be flabbergasted if we were implicated in this.

The advertising industry is incredibly heavily audited these days and I would expect Parish to insist on the highest levels of due diligence in all the club's financial dealings.

elgin eagle
26-04-2017, 03:58 PM
Not sur if its a joke or not

Dwight Gayle ?
Townsend
Kabaye

It was.

Plus you forgot Pardew :)

Wolfnipplechips
26-04-2017, 04:01 PM
I've heard it's Benitez that's in trouble with HMRC for not declaring his tips.

:D

917L
26-04-2017, 04:14 PM
Not sur if its a joke or not

Dwight Gayle ?
Townsend
Kabaye

We bought Cabaye from PSG

aj4england
26-04-2017, 04:20 PM
We bought Cabaye from PSG

Its ok he was on about Kabaye

kabbott
26-04-2017, 04:44 PM
Its ok he was on about Kabaye

Jimmy Kabaye?

danpalace07
26-04-2017, 05:07 PM
praying we don't get caught up in this...

if the Geordies and the other lot were relegated because of this I'd laugh my cock off though

bubbs11
26-04-2017, 05:11 PM
The mind casts back to 1990 when Swindon were demoted to Division 3 after winning promotion to Division 1 just days before. They ended up in Div 2 on appeal. They broke 36 league rules - 35 relating to illegal payments.

Be interesting to see how this all pans out. I doubt such a large and high profile police operation would've been undertaken lightly and I'm guessing West Ham and Newcastle are in the poo poo big time.

Celestial Empire
26-04-2017, 05:17 PM
The police have said there is no suspicion about Chelsea, just information being requested.

Marseille are/were allegedly mixed up with Corsican crime syndicates/agencies (perhaps the previous regime, now come to light ?)

HMRC are talking about fraud of the princely sum of £5M. Given HMRC's track record of utterly failing to win their prosecutions of the Arsenal players offshore payments tax fiddle, and the "dear old 'Arry's bulldog" cases, there must be a fair likelyhood that this one will also "fail to proceed" through lack of evidence.:rolleyes:

Worksop Palace
26-04-2017, 05:20 PM
I think we all know we will celebrate staying up tonight or Saturday and by mid June we will be looking at our fixtures against Lincoln et al

chrisophiex
26-04-2017, 05:50 PM
I think we all know we will celebrate staying up tonight or Saturday and by mid June we will be looking at our fixtures against Lincoln et al


On the plus side....a new ground to visit.

elgin eagle
26-04-2017, 05:54 PM
I think we all know we will celebrate staying up tonight or Saturday and by mid June we will be looking at our fixtures against Lincoln et al

Newcastle's a nice local trip :)

We are seeing the positives already.

Worksop Palace
26-04-2017, 05:56 PM
On the plus side....a new ground to visit.

Nah, went to Sincil Bank for the 1-0 loss in the first leg of a Milk Cup game early 90's. Gary Bannister scored. And we absolute shite. Won the tie overall iirc though

Kidofwonder
26-04-2017, 07:07 PM
Saw a guardian article being linked which a jouno suggested had a background relevance which centered around certain agents specifically and briefly mentioned Chelsea and Watford i think

Tim
26-04-2017, 08:00 PM
On the plus side....a new ground to visit.

That'll definitely be put on hold..

kabbott
27-04-2017, 02:11 PM
Over here, French player Sylvain Marveaux has been placed under police custody. He was transferred from Rennes to Newcastle on a free 6 years ago!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39729853

Wolfnipplechips
27-04-2017, 02:14 PM
Over here, French player Sylvain Marveaux has been placed under police custody. He was transferred from Rennes to Newcastle on a free 6 years ago!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39729853

The picture on your link is just magnificent.

If a picture tells a thousand words.......

This one tells three.

Selhurst Celtic
27-04-2017, 02:32 PM
I wonder if the details behind the five players Newcastle United loaned out to the artist formerly known as rangers will be looked at. That was really weird.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/sorry-saga-newcastle-uniteds-rangers-8911228

eagle mart
28-04-2017, 08:06 AM
Demba Ba - and his agent. The only link between the three clubs.