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Scrumpy
18-05-2017, 01:46 PM
The FA has voted to introduce retrospective bans from next season for players that dive.

Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension.

The panel will consist of one ex-match official, one ex-manager and one ex-player.

Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886

karl.eldridge
18-05-2017, 01:49 PM
I like this.

However how can you give a yellow card if you get caught and a 2 match ban if you don't?

Also super subjective needs 5 people panel not 3.

OldPeanutSeller
18-05-2017, 01:55 PM
Apparently Francis Lee will be the ex-player, so don' expect many prosecutions. (Apparently, the City fans used to think he was qualified to play for China, as every week in the paper their scorer was recorded as Lee One Pen)

Aquila_17
18-05-2017, 02:03 PM
I like this.

However how can you give a yellow card if you get caught and a 2 match ban if you don't?

Also super subjective needs 5 people panel not 3.

Simply because they can... although a more severe ban in retrospect is probably aimed at trying to minimise intent by players to get away with it in the first place.

Of course, if we also consider what effect it has on a game, if a player does get away with it in situ and his team is awarded a penalty which, more often than not, would be scored, then the offence is effectively compounded and has arguably affected the other side to a greater degree. In that case a more severe retrospective ban would be more fitting.

I agree that a 3 man panel is a little suspect, but in these days of multiple recorded angles, playback and slow motion resolution, it ought to be enough, save for personal prejudices.

Icy
18-05-2017, 02:09 PM
It's about time. Ashley Young should be retroactively banned for the rest of his career.

Isle of Wight
18-05-2017, 02:12 PM
It's about time. Ashley Young should be retroactively banned for the rest of his career.


Bugger you got there first

FourtyTwo
18-05-2017, 02:13 PM
I take it they are not doing the other side of the equation, and looking at bookings given for diving, and potentially retracting them?

Terrace Bickle
18-05-2017, 02:16 PM
I hope Wilf doesn't get unfairly penalised as a big part of his game is drawing fouls from the opposition.

SilentAssassin
18-05-2017, 02:45 PM
I hope Wilf doesn't get unfairly penalised as a big part of his game is drawing fouls from the opposition.

Almost inevitable that this will happen.

CP-RJW
18-05-2017, 03:05 PM
Sam has spoken: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39963445

ExiledStirling
18-05-2017, 03:05 PM
I hope Wilf doesn't get unfairly penalised as a big part of his game is drawing fouls from the opposition.
On Sky News, they showed 3 examples of diving, the first two were clear(Harry Kane being one of them) , the third, Zaha, I still argue was never a dive. He is unfairly labelled.

Wolfnipplechips
18-05-2017, 03:12 PM
The FA has voted to introduce retrospective bans from next season for players that dive.

Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension.

The panel will consist of one ex-match official, one ex-manager and one ex-player.

Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886

Panel to be made up of Clattenberg, Ferguson and Arjen Robben.

maestro
18-05-2017, 03:25 PM
for clarification

Only incidents that result in a player winning a penalty or lead to an opponent being sent off - through either a direct red card or two yellow cards - will be punished.

CommercialStone
18-05-2017, 03:51 PM
So the he did / didn't dive argument will be replaced by the 'there was contact' argument.

When does diving become going down easily and vice versa and can you tell by watching a recording?

ElwissAtMemphis
18-05-2017, 04:04 PM
I can't see the objection for absolutely blatant cases. If there's minimal contact and the player throws himself to the floor like he's been shot like Benteke for Liverpool last season then it's impossible to say for certain that he was cheating. But for instances like Snodgrass at Hull this season when they blatantly go down without any contact then that deserves a 3 match ban at least.

I think Allardyce's reaction is unhelpful. We all know who's name's going to come up when this subject gets discussed. His furious indignation could be interpreted as an admission of guilt. I can't see an argument for not retrospectively punishing players who dive when there's been no contact.

917L
18-05-2017, 04:04 PM
So the he did / didn't dive argument will be replaced by the 'there was contact' argument.

When does diving become going down easily and vice versa and can you tell by watching a recording?

Will depend on the badge on the shirt, as usual

cpfc4evandeva
18-05-2017, 04:08 PM
Sam has spoken: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39963445

A great manager, but he's so ******* Northern. I hate the idea of a sin bin.

I think lengthy bans for players who dive is a great idea.

Wolfnipplechips
18-05-2017, 04:11 PM
A great manager, but he's so ******* Northern. I hate the idea of a sin bin.

I think lengthy bans for players who dive is a great idea.

Agreed as long as it's without doubt.

Simple&Stupid
18-05-2017, 04:24 PM
Problem here is, for instance, we concede a penalty and a goal and lose a game to a blatant dive. Our opponents then lose one of their (star?) players for a game against a close rival of ours and lose the game. We've been punished twice.

Martin H
18-05-2017, 04:24 PM
Just another stupid step surely.

Doing it retrospectively means that the opponents still lose out during the match, potentially conceding or losing a player etc. It might possibly deter the odd dive but has retrospective action seriously deterred dangerous play? Would be interested to see the stats on that.

The retrospective analysis will depend on camera angles and there have often been examples where certain angles make it look like a dive but you see from others that it wasn't. So... how will they be sure they always have the right camera angles and aren't missing the one that makes it clear?

Won't they need to tightly define the distinction between, going down to avoid injury, going down to win unfair advantage and going down to ensure the ref realises that there was a foul. And what exactly would that look like? It's all well and good picking out the obvious ones where there is no contact and the player does his assassinated victim impression. It's not the blatantly obvious ones I am on about. They also have to interpret player speed, balance and so on.

It's also just another thing to undermine the referee.

I agree that the cheating in the game - which is so often dubbed 'professionalism' - has to be dramatically reduced because it's out of hand now. But this doesn't on the face of it sound like a good solution.

baughurst eagle
18-05-2017, 04:35 PM
crap idea because we know how bias it will be against wilf as he will be to good for the panel of judges

Garfy
18-05-2017, 04:45 PM
How about retrospective bans for referees who miss awarding penalties.

Reg_Maudling
18-05-2017, 04:49 PM
Can I just say Robert Snodgrass?

ExiledStirling
18-05-2017, 04:59 PM
How about retrospective bans for referees who miss awarding penalties.
Or who conveniently forget to apply the advantage rule, twice?

Panther
18-05-2017, 06:02 PM
If they had the sense to use video technology for this and other crucial incidents all this retrospective junk wouldn't be needed.

Lambeth Palace
18-05-2017, 08:21 PM
So a panel made up of of Fergie, Gary Neville and Clattenberg deciding whether or not Wilf dived a week before we play the wankers? No thanks.

alexcpfc
18-05-2017, 09:19 PM
So a panel made up of of Fergie, Gary Neville and Clattenberg deciding whether or not Wilf dived a week before we play the wankers? No thanks.


Exactly. It is a good idea in theory but there will always be people with other agendas.

Where does all it leave the lesser lights in the Premiership - "well and truly screwed".

Just bring in Video technology. They make it work in rugby.

GrayP41ace
18-05-2017, 09:19 PM
I've always liked the idea of a ref watching any red card offences from the first half at half time and if he's got it wrong, the player can come back out for the second, if he's wrong in the second half he can refine it and they can play the next match.

I also make Allardyc right, he doesn't say divers shouldn't be punished, but when a player is wrongly punished why shouldn't they be retrospectively cleared. Zaha and MacArthur both got booked when fouled this year, Snodgrass got a pen when clearly diving. Only one of those will be retrospectively punished, yet the only club that benefits is Hull, and potentially their opponents.

Not sure how it will stop divers taking a chance of a pen when desperate for the points mind.

Sick Bucket
18-05-2017, 09:23 PM
It's about time. Ashley Young should be retroactively banned for the rest of his career.

and Benteke... oh wait.

But yeah, wow it looks like the FA might have actually come it right for once.

Worksop Palace
18-05-2017, 09:35 PM
A great manager, but he's so ******* Northern. I hate the idea of a sin bin.

I think lengthy bans for players who dive is a great idea.

He's not northern

You halfwit

lewisuk
19-05-2017, 12:08 AM
Why not just bring in a video replay if the ref gives the incident as a foul he calls both captains towards him and just tells them the incident is being looked at by the tv ref.. whilst this is going on he can pull the guy who committed the foul over or didn't (us the fans) sit whilst this going on and assume it's the usual gonna book him talk to him. in that time video ref has watched it and can say correct decision or incorrect decision and reverse it. announce on screen / the tannoy if it's reversed. Game hasn't been held up any longer than it usually is with all the arguing about the foul. With this option there will be no we lost because of the dodgy penalty but hey that's ok as that player will miss two games for cheating now

Vince Hilaire's Afro
19-05-2017, 12:23 AM
Hopefully these interventions will only be used in the case of out and out blatant dives - the majority of 'dive' accusations invite endless discourse amongst panels of 'experts' and even then there's rarely a consensus. It's a little too subjective.

Asagaya_Eagle
19-05-2017, 12:30 AM
Don't understand why diving is regarded as worse than a intentional handball or holding/shirt pulling at a set piece, for example.

jrnicholson
19-05-2017, 01:09 AM
He's not northern

You halfwit

Well he's not from Surrey. In my world, "northern" is the wrong side of the Thames and "foreign" starts at the channel (including the Isle of Wight).

However, on this occasion, the northerner is correct!

Skiddo
19-05-2017, 10:13 AM
Certainly no fear of Hennessy getting any retrospective bans next season.

Mictor Voses
19-05-2017, 10:16 AM
for clarification

Only incidents that result in a player winning a penalty or lead to an opponent being sent off - through either a direct red card or two yellow cards - will be punished.

Whilst it's good that they are taking action this is where it falls down for me. What if he dives and doesn't get a penalty? Surely that's the same thing?

OldPeanutSeller
19-05-2017, 10:34 AM
How about retrospective bans for referees who miss awarding penalties.

Because the diver is deliberately cheating, whereas the ref has either made a genuine mistake or is incompetent. In the latter case, I think I'm right in saying a refs performance is reviewed from time to time and if deemed incompetent can be removed from the list

pap
19-05-2017, 10:47 AM
Certainly no fear of Hennessy getting any retrospective bans next season.

:D

Windsor_Eagle
19-05-2017, 10:47 AM
I can't see why it needs to be retrospective. I don't see why we are dragging our heels with video technology either.

For all penalty related decisions (which, let's be honest is where the diving thing is most acutely affecting the outcome of the match and most hideous refereeing decisions affect match outcomes), however 'stonewall' they may be, it is referred to the video ref. 30 seconds maximum to have it analysed by 4th officials from a few angles and give a decision. Works perfectly well in cricket.

If a pen, the right decision has been called. If not, then possible carding of a player where there is diving (obviously if not a dive then no action on this front) and free-kick to the defending team / drop ball. If a possible break-away was stopped (let's say at least a 2-1 ratio of attackers to defenders) by the video ref taking a look, and it was deemed that it was no penalty, the advantage could be restored to the counter-attacking side by giving them an indirect free kick 30 yards out from the opponents goal.

1905
19-05-2017, 10:59 AM
Can I just say Robert Snodgrass?

Indeed. But retrospectivly banning him would not of helped us though with the outcome of our game, he could just end up missing another game against a potential rival which further goes against us.

Maybe can hope that at least over time it may make players think before they go for a dive, but realistically the only conclusion is we need to look at live video tech so can judge a decision when it actually matters (in that game itself) rather than retrospectivly.

gjohnk
19-05-2017, 11:07 AM
for clarification

Only incidents that result in a player winning a penalty or lead to an opponent being sent off - through either a direct red card or two yellow cards - will be punished.

This is (one of) the stupid bit.
If a player dives outside the box and then scores from the free-kick - no punishment
If a player dives inside the box and then misses a penalty - punished

If a player dives and the fouler gets a second yellow - punished
if a player dives and fouler gets a yellow and goes on to get a second yellow or that yellow is the 5th resulting in a ban - no punishment

Great the FA want to address diving in the game, this just seems so badly thought through!

bubbs11
04-08-2017, 06:35 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40831719

13 man Committee announced. A three-person panel - chosen from the 13 - will review footage each Monday to look for cases of simulation.

Players unanimously found guilty will be banned under new rules.

This will only occur in cases where the offending player's team has been awarded a penalty or if an opponent has been sent-off where the act of "deception" led to the dismissal.

WLYWLYAWYPWF
04-08-2017, 06:55 PM
Why not just bring in a video replay if the ref gives the incident as a foul he calls both captains towards him and just tells them the incident is being looked at by the tv ref.. whilst this is going on he can pull the guy who committed the foul over or didn't (us the fans) sit whilst this going on and assume it's the usual gonna book him talk to him. in that time video ref has watched it and can say correct decision or incorrect decision and reverse it. announce on screen / the tannoy if it's reversed. Game hasn't been held up any longer than it usually is with all the arguing about the foul. With this option there will be no we lost because of the dodgy penalty but hey that's ok as that player will miss two games for cheating now

Yep. Scant consolation when you're playing Championship football next season that the player who dived to win the penalty that sent you down is banned for his first PL game. Extreme example but you get my drift.

Dorking .Eagle
04-08-2017, 07:03 PM
Yep. Scant consolation when you're playing Championship football next season that the player who dived to win the penalty that sent you down is banned for his first PL game. Extreme example but you get my drift.

Remember the Hull 3-3 away game last season. We should have won 3-2 if the dive hadn't won them a penalty, not within a foot of any contact.

Luckily the correct outcome happened over the season but totally agree.