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View Full Version : When Football Changed Forever


StanRd2005
02-07-2017, 08:33 PM
3l_ONgE6jzs
The full story of the 1991-92 football season when Leeds United won the title, when the top flight clubs plotted to break away and form the Premier League, when Alan Sugar took on Greg Dyke over the TV deal, and when Donald Trump did the Rumbelows Cup draw.

Isle of Wight
02-07-2017, 09:39 PM
Thanks enjoyed that

cpfc4evandeva
03-07-2017, 09:57 PM
I watched this when it was on tv a few months ago. Very good stuff.

Being born in 88, all I have known is the Premier League era. Was football really better back then, or is it just sentimental memories only remembering the good stuff?

Not experiencing any of it myself, it certainly looks like it was a lot of fun and way less serious that what we have today.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE
03-07-2017, 11:08 PM
I watched this when it was on tv a few months ago. Very good stuff.

Being born in 88, all I have known is the Premier League era. Was football really better back then, or is it just sentimental memories only remembering the good stuff?

Not experiencing any of it myself, it certainly looks like it was a lot of fun and way less serious that what we have today.

That video took me back. I remember it this way;

The stadia were crumbling ruins of sheet metal but infused with history. You were part of a mob of fans, not an audience of spectators. The people who sat were a distinct, strange minority. The atmosphere around the grounds were loud enough that we were one of the quietest sets of fans around. Everything smelled of cigarettes and pies. It was not a fashion parade; the fans clothes looked shitty even then. The pitches were only fit for 'carpet football' until November, unless you were Oldham or QPR. Players never really belonged to fans but, back then, they did belong to clubs because players didn't believe they were bigger than who they played for. Players didn't pose when they scored until a bellend called Lee Sharpe came along. Teams were British and truly felt like they represented an area or community. A club was made up of its team, not its squad. Players stayed put for 5+ years on a regular basis and most fans could name the first eleven of most of the top teams and have a worthwhile conversation about a rival team with their fans. Being a football fan was not 'cool.' You either had it in your blood or you didn't and some parts of society looked down on you if you did. It was a working class sport played by players that often made less money than some of the fans in the ground. The word 'ground' was used as often as 'stadium.' Clubs were big because of their history or success, not because of investor cash. Clubs normally took five years of clever, wheeler-dealing transfers to build a team capable of even a hopeful assault on a title, although the usual teams still won it. Except they were different teams back then. Teams on the up weren't as quickly or ruthlessly asset-stripped as today because the money wasn't around and contracts respected, although we were the exception with Venebles and QPR. You'd hesitate to take a woman or children to certain games, especially at night. The vast majority of fans were linked to the club in at least a residential or familial sense. The exceptions were Manchester United and Liverpool, who had 'glory hunter' fans before anyone else and before there was even a word for it. Most of all, football was a game, not a business.

Glaws Eagle
04-07-2017, 09:23 AM
Was football really better back then ......

In my opinion .... yes, by a country mile. Loved going in the 70's/80's .... hate it now.

Open Terraces
Cheaper Travel
Saturday 3pm kick offs
Proper Die Hard support. .. no Johnny Come Latelys
Less TV coverage making live football a real event
Sensible pricing
Muddy pitches
No tourists
Cotton shirts
Chelsea were appalling

etc etc ....

eaglejez
04-07-2017, 09:43 AM
In my opinion .... yes, by a country mile. Loved going in the 70's/80's .... hate it now.

Open Terraces
Cheaper Travel
Saturday 3pm kick offs
Proper Die Hard support. .. no Johnny Come Latelys
Less TV coverage making live football a real event
Sensible pricing
Muddy pitches
No tourists
Cotton shirts
Chelsea were appalling

etc etc ....

I miss certain things but football is off the scale better now than in the 1980s not least the lack of racism and hooliganism and bigger crowds, better stadiums etc

ebyeeckeagle
04-07-2017, 10:07 AM
Bit more Yes and No from me. But then I am much much younger than Glaws.;)

Racism was a very real issue. Monkey noises and chants. Terrible times for that.
Violence was in one way quite a thrill for a young teenager but places like Blackburn, Boro and Sunderland, Jesus you really did have to be careful. So no way for many matches would I have brought my kids along. And the police were appalling, seriously, West Mids, West Yorks, never far away from a roughing up and being treated like scum. And we moan today about them.

We talk about JCLs. Well, crowds, even in the better supported era, well, they could drop week on week by 10k. Then of course, we soon were in an era of 5k crowds for us and elsewhere.

But the price (50p in my earliest memory), easy access and just strolling up to a game without months of planning or waiting for Sky to decide if your plans were going to be ****ed. And the matches were just a little bit more fun. Can't imagine just suddenly having a 200 odd mass kick around with a football (Oldham I think) or just the general freedom you had.

And just less social media and coverage was great in an odd way. We comb over every incident and game now; then, it was a few bits in the papers, a chat pre and post match, that was it. Far healthier I am sure!

Dorking .Eagle
04-07-2017, 10:32 AM
Yes and no from me too.

Back then it was hard work rechecking teletext a few times a day for a tiny snippet, and devouring every word in the Croydon Advertiser and the programme to get as much info about the club as possible.

It felt like clubs were more directly connected with the fans - supporters club night, more people went on the club coaches and trains more, fans sold lottery scratchcards and were in Lifeline as the club was always really skint!

Now the amount of online content is huge, you can find out about just about everything, instantly! A lot easier to go to an away game and have booked a hotel for the night (online) in advance, rather than turn up at Hull or Br*ghton etc, and have to hunt for a b&b hopefully with a vacancy.

Miss the terraces, but don't miss the fear of trouble at the back of your mind outside grounds. Also the police were far more rough and ready back then and assumed you were out of borstal for the day.

Loved that a simple paper round could financially sustain my home and away support as a teenager if I was careful with my money. Feel sorry for teenagers now with the cost of it, which seems a lot higher relatively speaking

DE - Glad All Over
04-07-2017, 11:12 AM
That video took me back. I remember it this way;

The stadia were crumbling ruins of sheet metal but infused with history. You were part of a mob of fans, not an audience of spectators. The people who sat were a distinct, strange minority. The atmosphere around the grounds were loud enough that we were one of the quietest sets of fans around. Everything smelled of cigarettes and pies. It was not a fashion parade; the fans clothes looked shitty even then. The pitches were only fit for 'carpet football' until November, unless you were Oldham or QPR. Players never really belonged to fans but, back then, they did belong to clubs because players didn't believe they were bigger than who they played for. Players didn't pose when they scored until a bellend called Lee Sharpe came along. Teams were British and truly felt like they represented an area or community. A club was made up of its team, not its squad. Players stayed put for 5+ years on a regular basis and most fans could name the first eleven of most of the top teams and have a worthwhile conversation about a rival team with their fans. Being a football fan was not 'cool.' You either had it in your blood or you didn't and some parts of society looked down on you if you did. It was a working class sport played by players that often made less money than some of the fans in the ground. The word 'ground' was used as often as 'stadium.' Clubs were big because of their history or success, not because of investor cash. Clubs normally took five years of clever, wheeler-dealing transfers to build a team capable of even a hopeful assault on a title, although the usual teams still won it. Except they were different teams back then. Teams on the up weren't as quickly or ruthlessly asset-stripped as today because the money wasn't around and contracts respected, although we were the exception with Venebles and QPR. You'd hesitate to take a woman or children to certain games, especially at night. The vast majority of fans were linked to the club in at least a residential or familial sense. The exceptions were Manchester United and Liverpool, who had 'glory hunter' fans before anyone else and before there was even a word for it. Most of all, football was a game, not a business.

That's a good summary, and agree there is both good and bad differences. For me my biggest dislike is that Premier League has changed OUR GAME into a brand / product, something they think they invented and have an Intellectual Property with. Sometimes for instance at Arse you see the club sponsored flag wavers behind the goal which to me looks like Euro-Disney, and I cringe.

Aquila_17
04-07-2017, 11:14 AM
Was football really better back then, or is it just sentimental memories only remembering the good stuff?

It was just different because society was different.

Today, we're a lot safer and not fearful of things kicking off when we watch and the "ism"s hardly get a look in (that doesn't mean they're not still there for many though).

Then, things could be and very often were brutal, off and on the pitch, especially in the seventies but nearly all clubs had a real, localised, identity first and foremost rather than tending towards Corporate FC #1, #2, #3 etc. Players also worked for wages rather than having obscene wealth just because they do something people like to watch.

Today, the sport is for athletes. Then, fitness was needed but it wasn't uncommon for players to be under the influence from the night before when playing. Now we have "professional" behaviours which push the boundaries beyond the pale whereas shirt pulling, obstruction and illegal throw ins were usually punished, if the referee saw them.

Then, Claret and Blue, now Red 'n' Blue.

Now and then, but permanently, constantly and through thick and thin, CPFC is the only club I'll ever support :lux:

stevedb55
04-07-2017, 11:38 AM
That video took me back. I remember it this way;

The stadia were crumbling ruins of sheet metal but infused with history. You were part of a mob of fans, not an audience of spectators. The people who sat were a distinct, strange minority. The atmosphere around the grounds were loud enough that we were one of the quietest sets of fans around. Everything smelled of cigarettes and pies. It was not a fashion parade; the fans clothes looked shitty even then. The pitches were only fit for 'carpet football' until November, unless you were Oldham or QPR. Players never really belonged to fans but, back then, they did belong to clubs because players didn't believe they were bigger than who they played for. Players didn't pose when they scored until a bellend called Lee Sharpe came along. Teams were British and truly felt like they represented an area or community. A club was made up of its team, not its squad. Players stayed put for 5+ years on a regular basis and most fans could name the first eleven of most of the top teams and have a worthwhile conversation about a rival team with their fans. Being a football fan was not 'cool.' You either had it in your blood or you didn't and some parts of society looked down on you if you did. It was a working class sport played by players that often made less money than some of the fans in the ground. The word 'ground' was used as often as 'stadium.' Clubs were big because of their history or success, not because of investor cash. Clubs normally took five years of clever, wheeler-dealing transfers to build a team capable of even a hopeful assault on a title, although the usual teams still won it. Except they were different teams back then. Teams on the up weren't as quickly or ruthlessly asset-stripped as today because the money wasn't around and contracts respected, although we were the exception with Venebles and QPR. You'd hesitate to take a woman or children to certain games, especially at night. The vast majority of fans were linked to the club in at least a residential or familial sense. The exceptions were Manchester United and Liverpool, who had 'glory hunter' fans before anyone else and before there was even a word for it. Most of all, football was a game, not a business.

Good summary

Terrace Bickle
04-07-2017, 02:42 PM
I watched this when it was on tv a few months ago. Very good stuff.

Being born in 88, all I have known is the Premier League era. Was football really better back then, or is it just sentimental memories only remembering the good stuff?

Not experiencing any of it myself, it certainly looks like it was a lot of fun and way less serious that what we have today.
Much, much better.

cpfc4evandeva
04-07-2017, 03:01 PM
Some really interesting comments. I think affordability for teenagers today must be a big issue, which is a terrible shame as I think that's when you are most likely to hook a lifelong fan. It's certainly when I got hooked to coming along each week and getting myself to shitholes like Ninian Park.

Another interesting point raised by Dorking Eagle: 'It felt like clubs were more directly connected with fans'. I would say that I feel less connected with CPFC at the moment, but I'll also be honest and just say I'm not entirely sure why.

I just get the feeling that when we were on our arse in the Championship, the club appreciated you turning up more. Now they don't care because they know they can replace you without any effort at all.

CommercialStone
04-07-2017, 03:05 PM
I kind of miss the ignorance of various things.

I would turn up on Saturday and listen to the adults talking about football and learn this that and the other. a transfer, a rumour about a player caught out drinking etc.

Now I hear about it on Twitter 24hr Sky coverage. I'd rather just find out the day after all of these things happen!

big bad John
04-07-2017, 03:34 PM
Like some have said, some things are better and some are worse. Today the entertainment value of the matches is definitely inferior. I've watched a lot of old matches from the 50, 60's and 70's on youtube recently and the entertainment and atmosphere was way ahead of what we witness today.
Today's players are fitter, stronger and in many ways more skillful but try comparing a Chelsea v Arsenal, Liverpool v United, or Celtic v Rangers to the battles these teams had years ago. Wingers knew how to dribble, keepers could catch the ball, full backs could tackle and center halves knew how to perfect a well timed two footed tackle from behind. Beckham crossed a ball like every winger of the 60's or 70's was capable of and Sky television and their new army of fans absolutely creamed themselves. Free kicks with the light balls have almost made it a certainty to score. Possession football sucks and someone pulls a goal back when his team are losing 0-5 and he decides to take his top off to show his muscles that he's been working on all week instead of his shite heading ability.
Fans should look up the old encounters between England and Scotland and compare them to the matches they have today. Compare the atmosphere and the passion of the players and if your not bias you will agree that the great game was definitely a better spectacle before it was re-invented and taken away from the naughty working classes.

DE - Glad All Over
04-07-2017, 04:42 PM
Hate to admit it, but the Danny Baker bit made me chuckle as he took the piss out of Palace. Used to love driving back from away games having a rant at his show trying to dial in.

Dorking .Eagle
04-07-2017, 04:59 PM
The first season we were promoted, we tried to appreciate it more, because not unreasonably we expected to go straight back down, and if we had, nobody would have batted an eyelid. After 5 seasons, the tv changes to kick off times and days of fixtures really grates if you go to all the games, having to keep you diary clear until 5 weeks before sometimes.

Also that first season back up, the owners were a lot more about putting Palace fans ahead of tourists, now they are quite open about the travel agencies the club has agreements with - I guess getting a premium in the form of either a membership fee or a travel agency commission on top of the price of an Arthur Wait seat is too good to turn down.

I don't long for the muddy pitches of the 70s, or even 80's/90's Selhurst when we ground shared, and I am in no rush to watch a game without a roof over my head any more.

Oli28
04-07-2017, 05:13 PM
In my opinion .... yes, by a country mile. Loved going in the 70's/80's .... hate it now

Proper Die Hard support. .. no Johnny Come Latelys
No tourists
etc etc ....
Only born in 92 myself but you only need to have a cursory glance at our attendances over the years to see that our crowds have always spiked when we were doing well.

ElwissAtMemphis
04-07-2017, 06:26 PM
Let's be honest. Watching Palace in most of the 80s was depressing, dull and almost totally devoid of genuine quality. Some of our players would struggle to shine in today's National League. It was affordable and the experience of attending the (very) occasional big match was more of a laugh but generally if the Premiership/Sky revolution means we never regress to those days then I support it.

I think football in the 70s/80s is a bit like punk. Those that lived through it have fond memories and there were exhilarating highlights but on sober reflection, most of it was of very poor quality by today's standards and it wasn't nearly as entertaining as nostalgic types would have you believe.

PeterH
04-07-2017, 08:13 PM
For a youngish fan it was a good laugh back in the day.

CharlieCPFC
04-07-2017, 08:36 PM
That video took me back. I remember it this way;

The stadia were crumbling ruins of sheet metal but infused with history. You were part of a mob of fans, not an audience of spectators. The people who sat were a distinct, strange minority. The atmosphere around the grounds were loud enough that we were one of the quietest sets of fans around. Everything smelled of cigarettes and pies. It was not a fashion parade; the fans clothes looked shitty even then. The pitches were only fit for 'carpet football' until November, unless you were Oldham or QPR. Players never really belonged to fans but, back then, they did belong to clubs because players didn't believe they were bigger than who they played for. Players didn't pose when they scored until a bellend called Lee Sharpe came along. Teams were British and truly felt like they represented an area or community. A club was made up of its team, not its squad. Players stayed put for 5+ years on a regular basis and most fans could name the first eleven of most of the top teams and have a worthwhile conversation about a rival team with their fans. Being a football fan was not 'cool.' You either had it in your blood or you didn't and some parts of society looked down on you if you did. It was a working class sport played by players that often made less money than some of the fans in the ground. The word 'ground' was used as often as 'stadium.' Clubs were big because of their history or success, not because of investor cash. Clubs normally took five years of clever, wheeler-dealing transfers to build a team capable of even a hopeful assault on a title, although the usual teams still won it. Except they were different teams back then. Teams on the up weren't as quickly or ruthlessly asset-stripped as today because the money wasn't around and contracts respected, although we were the exception with Venebles and QPR. You'd hesitate to take a woman or children to certain games, especially at night. The vast majority of fans were linked to the club in at least a residential or familial sense. The exceptions were Manchester United and Liverpool, who had 'glory hunter' fans before anyone else and before there was even a word for it. Most of all, football was a game, not a business.

I don't usually read posts this long but this had something good to it.

Nice read.

CharlieCPFC
04-07-2017, 08:43 PM
From a personal experience being younger than the majority on here I've even noticed the change in Football over the years. I'd say it's changing more than what our eyes are realising season by season. Away fans for me seem to get quieter each season, I remember the days when most weeks away fans like Sunderland, Tottenham and even Millwall would absolutely roar the ground down but it seems like the noise levels have decreased.

I imagine people are being priced out of going or perhaps just had enough of the way the game is going commercially with so much money being banded about.

I still love Palace and Football as a sport, but there's aspects of the game I detest. Player power now being one thing that cringes me out. If clubs looked down on players with that sort of attitude it would stop, but the hunger for success with money on the line eradicates morality within the game now.