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Latvian Eagle
02-08-2017, 12:06 PM
I just wanted to talk about this without mentioning it in a specific thread but are English clubs happy to throw money at anything or are they really bad at negotiating?

Like at the moment we are being linked to Chambers and Sakho for roughly around £20m and £30m a piece. I saw Manchester United signed some Swedish Centre Back for something stupid like £34m the other day.

Yet I look at club a from Spain, Italy etc and they seem to get better quality players for better value. It just baffles me. For example Sevilla have signed in recent weeks Nolito for €9m and about to sign Simon Kjær for €10m... How?! I know the club status etc, but why is it clubs abroad seem to sign top quality players for £10m and English clubs are spending almost three times that amount for arguably lesser players?! :confused:

Surely there has to be some common sense rather than just throwing money at anything that moves?

Silks&Tekkers
02-08-2017, 12:13 PM
I read a piece recently that was stating that a European chairman couldn't be seen to be selling to a premier league club for less than £20m given the money in the division. I expect it's a case of having more money than sense and the rest of the world knowing about the large sums of money the premier league teams have - The Premier League Premium as they say....

PALACEWU
02-08-2017, 12:13 PM
Isn't it fairly obviously the premiership money?

BillyTKid
02-08-2017, 12:18 PM
Yeah the Milan transfers are good examples of some of this. £30m for Bonucci and £15m for Biglia. Arguably the best centre backs in the league. If they had been sold to a premier league team the prices would have been doubled.

Latvian Eagle
02-08-2017, 12:18 PM
Isn't it fairly obviously the premiership money?

Yes but the more you pay the more you will pay in future. Surely there has to be common sense when spending. I wouldn't see something I like in the shops that I know is £20 and go and pay £80 for it.

It's bloody stupid. And the thing is the Premiership money yes... But once spending it, it then surely just becomes everyone else's money anyway?

Latvian Eagle
02-08-2017, 12:23 PM
Yeah the Milan transfers are good examples of some of this. £30m for Bonucci and £15m for Biglia. Arguably the best centre backs in the league. If they had been sold to a premier league team the prices would have been doubled.

Bonucci for £30m or some Swedish unknown for £34m.

Gregz41
02-08-2017, 12:30 PM
There are a limited amount of players who will be good enough for teams competing for 1st/top 4. When you give PL teams more money, it causes price valuations to shift. The demand for top class players increases and as a result, those players will naturally go for more. £30 million was the going rate for this calibre of player four years ago, however it's now likely at least £50 million, if not double that.

It's almost a supply and demand issue. Clubs that are in the PL are so desperate to stay there. The clubs outside the top 6/7 are shopping in a similar market to some degree. It is inevitable that good players capable of keeping teams in the PL will increase in value and to a similar extent a knock on effect is passed on to average players.

WorthingEagle
02-08-2017, 12:34 PM
It's the football equivalent of the scene in Only Fools where Mike charges Trig a pound for a beef stew, then sells the same meal as a "Boeuf Bourguignon" for £2.50 to a city worker.

davech
02-08-2017, 01:00 PM
It's the football equivalent of the scene in Only Fools where Mike charges Trig a pound for a beef stew, then sells the same meal as a "Boeuf Bourguignon" for £2.50 to a city worker.

This.

European clubs are not daft. They can see the silly money sloshing around the Premier League and want some of it. Hence players cost English clubs twice as much. It's not rocket science.

The 'Big Six' are playing Russian roulette and escalating prices for the rest of us with their Monopoly Money deals. Exactly how and when the game will come to its senses I haven't a clue. A lot of clubs will get their fingers seriously burned in the process. Let's hope we are not one of them. We should be aiming for the Top 10, and it should not cost megabucks to do it. Hopefully FBD has a few contacts abroad and there are some sensible deals to be done, even at slightly inflated prices. And that includes not financing the scousers' new stand and summer spending.

And no, I don't still believe in Father Christmas.

Latvian Eagle
02-08-2017, 01:03 PM
How comes this isn't filtering out though? Obviously the selling clubs are getting mega bucks but still seem to be able to buy cheap?

kabbott
02-08-2017, 01:06 PM
Over here Monaco and Nice certainly know how to find bargains/make profits. Of course it's not just about buying good young players with potential, it's also about making them better players!
Monaco have, of course, sold quite a few players this summer, and there may be other players on their way (Mbappé, Lemar and Fabinho to name but three), so it'll be interesting how they get on this season. They've made a ridiculous profit this summer and now they've brought in some new young talent!

Monaco:
T.Bakayoko (bought 8m€, sold 45m€)
B.Silva (bought 16m€, sold 50m€)
B.Mendy (bought 12m€, sold 58m€)
V;Germain (Monaco "académie", sold 8m€)

This summer Monaco have bought:
S. Meite (SV Zulte Waregem , Belgium) 8m€
Y. Tielemans (RSC Anderlecht , Belgium) 25m€
J. Mboula (FC Barcelona, Spain) 3m€
J. Gaspar (Olympique Lyonnais) free

Finally, look out for A. Saint-Maximin. He was on loan at SC Bastia last season. He did very well there and fancies his chances of getting 1st team football at Monaco (especially if Mbappé leaves). He's very raw, but if coached properly he'll be very good.

EDIT: They've also just paid 10m€ for Adama Diakhaby (Rennes)!

davech
02-08-2017, 01:07 PM
Perhaps we should be trying to cap the fees received by the leeches agents? This could bring down fees considerably.

dan27
02-08-2017, 01:24 PM
If I was running a football club other than the absolute megabucks teams (Bayern, Real, PSG, Barcelona, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and possibly Juventus) then I would not even bother chasing these stars and paying the fees for established players unless they were at a significantly reduced price.

Take Spurs for example, their most valuable and best 2 players are Dele Alli and Harry Kane. Together they cost less than £10million. Man Utd signed Paul Pogba and Romelu Lukaku for a grand total of circa £200million (and had they played their cards right they could have had them both for £17million a few years back) but there is no improvement. If anything I would argue that Kane and Alli are superior footballers and have more value to an English club. I would therefore suggest that United are not getting anywhere close to value for money and would be much better off bringing in players before they reach the peak of their price. Look at Monaco, they built a team on the down low without a massive output, that is the price that teams should be looking to sign players at, not the price that they are being sold at now. I understand that for the enormous teams there is somewhat of an arms race at the moment and spending big money is almost a necessity to remain relevant and brand-worthy. They have the money and so must spend it. In terms of value for money for productivity however, they are being duped.

If it were me I would cut my losses, applaud whoever it is who managed to spot the talented player before me and bring them in for a low price, and look to the next one. There are so many footballers out there and scouting is so widespread that there will always be another talented player out there, it is just a matter of finding them and then backing them. There is no need to spend astronomical fees unless you need an immediate and guaranteed fix and if you are in this situation then its probably due to poor planning and scouting in previous years.

dan27
02-08-2017, 01:28 PM
Over here Monaco and Nice certainly know how to find bargains/make profits. Of course it's not just about buying good young players with potential, it's also about making them better players!
Monaco have, of course, sold quite a few players this summer, and there may be other players on their way (Mbappé, Lemar and Fabinho to name but three), so it'll be interesting how they get on this season. They've made a ridiculous profit this summer and now they've brought in some new young talent!

Monaco:
T.Bakayoko (bought 8m€, sold 45m€)
B.Silva (bought 16m€, sold 50m€)
B.Mendy (bought 12m€, sold 58m€)
V;Germain (Monaco "académie", sold 8m€)

This summer Monaco have bought:
S. Meite (SV Zulte Waregem , Belgium) 8m€
Y. Tielemans (RSC Anderlecht , Belgium) 25m€
J. Mboula (FC Barcelona, Spain) 3m€
J. Gaspar (Olympique Lyonnais) free

Finally, look out for A. Saint-Maximin. He was on loan at SC Bastia last season. He did very well there and fancies his chances of getting 1st team football at Monaco (especially if Mbappé leaves). He's very raw, but if coached properly he'll be very good.

EDIT: They've also just paid 10m€ for Adama Diakhaby (Rennes)!

Like you say, it is now so often forgotten that players can, shock horror, improve with good coaching. One way to get value for money is to sign a player and make him better!

Latvian Eagle
02-08-2017, 01:32 PM
Over here Monaco and Nice certainly know how to find bargains/make profits. Of course it's not just about buying good young players with potential, it's also about making them better players!
Monaco have, of course, sold quite a few players this summer, and there may be other players on their way (Mbappé, Lemar and Fabinho to name but three), so it'll be interesting how they get on this season. They've made a ridiculous profit this summer and now they've brought in some new young talent!

Monaco:
T.Bakayoko (bought 8m€, sold 45m€)
B.Silva (bought 16m€, sold 50m€)
B.Mendy (bought 12m€, sold 58m€)
V;Germain (Monaco "académie", sold 8m€)

This summer Monaco have bought:
S. Meite (SV Zulte Waregem , Belgium) 8m€
Y. Tielemans (RSC Anderlecht , Belgium) 25m€
J. Mboula (FC Barcelona, Spain) 3m€
J. Gaspar (Olympique Lyonnais) free

Finally, look out for A. Saint-Maximin. He was on loan at SC Bastia last season. He did very well there and fancies his chances of getting 1st team football at Monaco (especially if Mbappé leaves). He's very raw, but if coached properly he'll be very good.

EDIT: They've also just paid 10m€ for Adama Diakhaby (Rennes)!

How are Nice getting along? They seem to be being picked apart from last season.