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Polish Pete
02-08-2017, 10:19 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/legia-warsaw-fans-unveil-striking-10920110

Wow!

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/02/legia-warsaw-fans-tifo-warsaw-uprising

Polish Pete
02-08-2017, 10:21 PM
....and probably not in the right thread but.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lack_of_outside_support_during_the_Warsaw_Uprising

Grew up with stories of the Uprising by relatives who were there.

especially the massacres carried out by this piece of work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger

and the RONA Brigade

Polish Pete
02-08-2017, 10:32 PM
How to bring Politics into football. in an extreme way They even used the term Germans . Very Silly

ElwissAtMemphis
02-08-2017, 11:15 PM
This is better ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bm5wwvDCMAAHaQz.jpg

I founnd the imagery of the salt and pepper grinders in conjunction with that particular shade of brown a thought-provoking metaphor for something or other that we were supposed to be remembering that week apparently. The random choice of gothic font in the banner brought the whole display together with a pleasingly surreal "what the feck's that all about?" effect.

Far East Eagle
02-08-2017, 11:27 PM
How to bring Politics into football. in an extreme way They even used the term Germans . Very Silly

They WERE German, calling the Nazis instead was a decision taken in the early years after WWII ended as we decided the diluted Nazi state of West Germany would be on our side and we couldn't be linking their war atrocites to them. Its time we stopped this Cold War propaganda and acknowledge normal Germans joined the army then massacred civilians in their millions.

Polish Pete
02-08-2017, 11:53 PM
In the uprising a fair bunch of butchers were from RONA Russian under German Command and other SS Units from other countries too

Golf Boy
03-08-2017, 12:00 AM
How to bring Politics into football. in an extreme way They even used the term Germans . Very Silly

Visited Poland just after the Berlin wall fell. The students we were visiting were NOT celebrating reunification. They were genuinely concerned at he thought of a powerful Germany. There was still hatred of Germany for what they had done in the past.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE
03-08-2017, 01:27 AM
They WERE German, calling the Nazis instead was a decision taken in the early years after WWII ended as we decided the diluted Nazi state of West Germany would be on our side and we couldn't be linking their war atrocites to them. Its time we stopped this Cold War propaganda and acknowledge normal Germans joined the army then massacred civilians in their millions.

True. Modern day Germans have nothing to answer or be ashamed for but their grandfathers and great-grandfathers most certainly do. Germany, the nation, voted in the Nazis on a platform of avowed fascism. Any crimes their nation committed against humanity after that point can only be the fault of a people that chose that platform.

CP-RJW
03-08-2017, 01:39 AM
There were many non German Nazis though, Austria in particular had loads, and their people gave Hitler the red carpet treatment when he invaded. Playing devils advocate here, wouldn't referring to Nazis as Germans be absolving other countries with significant Nazi activity of responsibility?

Dorking .Eagle
03-08-2017, 05:30 AM
Amazing display by Legia Warsaw.

The Holmesdale Stand does has a walkway along the front of the roof edge if anyone feels brave and wants to hand a vast banner off the front LOL

East-End Eagle
03-08-2017, 05:43 AM
What remained of the polish resistance were completely hung out to dry by the allies at the wars end. Mostly arrested and sent to Siberia after being labelled fascists by Stalin, even though hey had fought an underground war against the nazis for 5 years. Stalin hated the poles as much as hitler did. A shameful chapter of history all round.

Old Joe Paxton
03-08-2017, 06:55 AM
How to bring Politics into football. in an extreme way They even used the term Germans . Very Silly

Bit stunned. 'Politics'? An anti Nazi banner aimed at the war where they committed unspeakable crimes. And you are Polish. So why is this an issue for you

You posted it. At first you seemed impressed. I guess could have used term Nazis rather than Germans but even so. An impressive banner

cdm61
03-08-2017, 06:58 AM
True. Modern day Germans have nothing to answer or be ashamed for but their grandfathers and great-grandfathers most certainly do. Germany, the nation, voted in the Nazis on a platform of avowed fascism. Any crimes their nation committed against humanity after that point can only be the fault of a people that chose that platform.

The National Socialists were not voted into power their vote had fallen in 1932 election. Hitler became chancellor because the elite wanted him to prevent a revolution. The left vote while split between the Social Democrats and the German Communist Party was greater than the fascists, Stalin refused to allow them to form a pact. Calling the Social Democrats social fascists. In fact he called for the destruction of the left democrats rather than create a United front against fascism. Hitler was offered the vice chancellor but refused. The president Hindenberg was forced to make him Chancellor. The enabling act was then passed ushering in dictatorship after the Reichstag fire.

ChuckMcBalls
03-08-2017, 10:42 AM
....and probably not in the right thread but.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lack_of_outside_support_during_the_Warsaw_Uprising

Grew up with stories of the Uprising by relatives who were there.

especially the massacres carried out by this piece of work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger

and the RONA Brigade

For anyone who visits Warsaw there is a fantastic museum about the oppression and uprising near Rondo Daszynskiego metro station. Harrowing stuff.

waddoneagle
03-08-2017, 10:47 AM
There supporters are the most Far Right in Poland, :jerkit:

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20620891_10155785306174728_2196145485140161076_n.j pg?oh=fc136c8aa10ab285711d4baa9c030d21&oe=5A393659
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20525714_10155785306744728_2648181465561050512_n.j pg?oh=4d984b461efa563dd3df24a6985b7ef4&oe=59ECB557
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20479906_10155785303369728_217785312011292327_n.jp g?oh=671a33590dc5b01e1186e20cf99a55f7&oe=5A376F15

El Aguila
03-08-2017, 10:51 AM
And the most far right in Poland is pretty far right.

cdm61
03-08-2017, 11:20 AM
And the most far right in Poland is pretty far right.

Is today's extreme nationalism of some Poles a response to the German occupation which was exceptionally brutal? The Nazis considered Poles to be inferior. Following defeat the Nazis launched a campaign of terror.

Fascist (SS) death squads shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor, Polish communists were the first into Auschwitz. Which was a labour camp not an exterminsation camp at the time.

N Herts Eagle
03-08-2017, 11:41 AM
Is today's extreme nationalism of some Poles a response to the German occupation which was exceptionally brutal? The Nazis considered Poles to be inferior. Following defeat the Nazis launched a campaign of terror.

Fascist (SS) death squads shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor, Polish communists were the first into Auschwitz. Which was a labour camp not an exterminsation camp at the time. Polish history of the 20th century leading up to the 2nd World War is littered with far right groups who split into various sub groups often. Anti Semetism was rife with various pogroms and continued at the end of the 2nd World War

Polish Pete
03-08-2017, 07:35 PM
Bit stunned. 'Politics'? An anti Nazi banner aimed at the war where they committed unspeakable crimes. And you are Polish. So why is this an issue for you

You posted it. At first you seemed impressed. I guess could have used term Nazis rather than Germans but even so. An impressive banner

I was impressed that it was incorporated into a banner. Not impressed on the current relationship between Germany and Poland especially its government and how this could be used to further damage these. Wily Brandt kneeled and apologised for the atrocities many years ago. However the world needs to be reminded of what happened.
Additionally very surprised as Legia fans are extremely far right.
My beef is with the Soviets. Both parents were in Siberian gulags as very young children, but that's another story
I am of Polish background by the way and born in Beckenham

Polish Pete
03-08-2017, 07:39 PM
Polish history of the 20th century leading up to the 2nd World War is littered with far right groups who split into various sub groups often. Anti Semetism was rife with various pogroms and continued at the end of the 2nd World War

Sore topic. Especially the Kielce incident as some sources say it was instigated by the communists.
People should remember that additionally in the list of righteous people in Israel who assisted Jewish people during the war. The majority of the named are ethnic Poles

Polish Pete
03-08-2017, 07:44 PM
My aunt fought in the uprising. Went to sauchenhausen after and got tuberculosis. Lived in Norway to a ripe old age.

There's an interesting article also about the resistance fighters who kept fighting the communists after the war.

Google The cursed soldiers

CP-RJW
03-08-2017, 07:44 PM
Sore topic. Especially the Kielce incident as some sources say it was instigated by the communists.
People should remember that additionally in the list of righteous people in Israel who assisted Jewish people during the war. The majority of the named are ethnic Poles
And the Poles also had proportionally the lowest number of nazi collaborators out of all Nazi occupied countries.

1905
03-08-2017, 07:47 PM
Uefa fine incoming probably? As with England v Scotland poppy, or Celtic Irish war banners.

Polish Pete
03-08-2017, 07:51 PM
And the Poles also had proportionally the lowest number of nazi collaborators out of all Nazi occupied countries.

...and the largest anti nazi anti communist resistance movement in Europe

ElwissAtMemphis
03-08-2017, 11:53 PM
And the Poles also had proportionally the lowest number of nazi collaborators out of all Nazi occupied countries.

Serious question. Who carried out the calculations to reach that conclusion and how? Did Nazi collaborators have to officially register by filling in a form or something?

Kosowski
04-08-2017, 12:19 AM
Simple, Poland was pretty much the only occupied country that refused to collaborate in any significant form. The Dutch contributed tons of men to the SS and sold their Jews as did the French who had their own SS unit. As did the Norwegians and Danes, Latvians etc etc

As for the display, the Germans need reminding of their crimes. The recent attempt at whitewashing their history by coming up with these mythical Nazis that mysteriously disappeared in 1945 is absolutely embarrassing. In some German publications, they are now perceiving themselves as fellow victims.

ElwissAtMemphis
04-08-2017, 12:29 AM
the Germans need reminding of their crimes...

Really ?! Why?

Maybe I'm being naive but wouldn't it be better to just put it all behind us and move on. We tried punitive reparations after the first world war and that just led us straight into another one. What possible good comes from raking over the coals like this?

PeterH
04-08-2017, 03:07 AM
There supporters are the most Far Right in Poland, :jerkit:

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20620891_10155785306174728_2196145485140161076_n.j pg?oh=fc136c8aa10ab285711d4baa9c030d21&oe=5A393659
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20525714_10155785306744728_2648181465561050512_n.j pg?oh=4d984b461efa563dd3df24a6985b7ef4&oe=59ECB557
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20479906_10155785303369728_217785312011292327_n.jp g?oh=671a33590dc5b01e1186e20cf99a55f7&oe=5A376F15

Some of them facist look like carbon copies of the jews that were exterminated in Polish camps. As per France, Italy and others, many in Poland were happy to sit by knowing full well what was going on.Others were happy to be rid of the jews. This bamnner has no relevance - especially if any of the far right are displaying it alongside their nazi flags.

PeterH
04-08-2017, 03:09 AM
Really ?! Why?

Maybe I'm being naive but wouldn't it be better to just put it all behind us and move on. We tried punitive reparations after the first world war and that just led us straight into another one. What possible good comes from raking over the coals like this?

Especially has the last of the SS guards/collaborators must be at least 95 years old. Who are they aiming the banner at? And 73 years??

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 05:22 AM
Some of them facist look like carbon copies of the jews that were exterminated in Polish camps. As per France, Italy and others, many in Poland were happy to sit by knowing full well what was going on.Others were happy to be rid of the jews. This bamnner has no relevance - especially if any of the far right are displaying it alongside their nazi flags.
Not Polish Camps but Nazi run camps on occupied Polish territory. Read more about refering them to Polish camps. Obama had to apologize for it. Maybe you should too. Very offensive term

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 05:24 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Polish_death_camp%22_controversy

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 05:28 AM
Use of the term discouraged by Israeli and Polish government however German media still use it. Das Bild for example

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 05:44 AM
There probably were some who knew full well what was happening. Lets switch the story here a bit now and talk about jewish collaboration with the NKVD. Found this article on net. Not sure of source but pretty much sums what i have heard from the older generation of the Polish community for decades in uk who were mainly from the east of Poland and what happened to them

http://dath125.livejournal.com/25934.html

N Herts Eagle
04-08-2017, 05:56 AM
Sore topic. Especially the Kielce incident as some sources say it was instigated by the communists.
People should remember that additionally in the list of righteous people in Israel who assisted Jewish people during the war. The majority of the named are ethnic Poles There are two sides the horror and those responsible and as you say those that helped.
I was reading that the current government are looking at Germany for reparation over the 2nd World War. Arguing that Poland did not agree with the 50's settlement as it was then under Soviet control.. There certainly remains a continuing hatred of Germany by some how that ties into the nationalistic movement within Poland may have played a part in the display.
I know in France that hatred of Germany by some is still there. I worked with a guy whose mother was appalled he was going to Germany on business.

in-exile
04-08-2017, 06:10 AM
Great country great People....how the hell could any Pole be far right Nazi or also even far left after the killings the Russians also did while splitting the country with the Germans.

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 06:43 AM
Exactly never understood it

N Herts Eagle
04-08-2017, 07:01 AM
There probably were some who knew full well what was happening. Lets switch the story here a bit now and talk about jewish collaboration with the NKVD. Found this article on net. Not sure of source but pretty much sums what i have heard from the older generation of the Polish community for decades in uk who were mainly from the east of Poland and what happened to them

http://dath125.livejournal.com/25934.html The question is was it any wonder. The Russians at the the time were seen as the lesser of the two evils. As Poland was ripped apart the view was that Russia gave the best opportunity to the Jewish population. Put into context of the preceding years and the pogroms in Poland and the levels of anti semetism there was a perceived opportunity. It was latter that it became clear that the Soviets were just going to treat everyone the same.
I will give you the other side my first wifes family were Jewish her grandmother was from Poland, a little old lady who took an instant dislike to me and spent a lot of her time muttering what I guess were obscenities in Yiddish about me, judging by the reactions. However I smoked so as time went by she would often have a "ciggie". She spent her early life in a village outside Lodz and came to the UK with her sister to escape the violence. She told the story that when there was a threat to the village Jews they the kids were herded to the local butchers hid under the big table and were protected by the butcher and a few others armed with meat cleavers. Of the family the two sisters were the only ones to leave joining her aunt in the UK, the rest stayed some were tailors one was a doctor, some involved in the unions. None and it was by the 2nd World War in her family uncles brothers and the families none were alive.

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 07:09 AM
Fair enough. Two sides to a debate. There were major pogroms in Russia too though.

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 07:12 AM
Respect your point though. Im just as you telling my families histories. Before the war in Lida where my dad was from he told me there were never any issues and jews and ethnic poles generally got on. Others from that area said the same.

PeterH
04-08-2017, 07:18 AM
Not Polish Camps but Nazi run camps on occupied Polish territory. Read more about refering them to Polish camps. Obama had to apologize for it. Maybe you should too. Very offensive term

Bollox to that precious panties. You knew what I meant. Don't start that taking faux offence shit with me.

Obama is an international politician. I'm writing on a football message board.

The camps in Poland, the polish camps- so fecking what. What's offensive is having a huge tifo at football waved around by people who probably waveNazi symbols at other times. And you're picking me up on a language point.

Don't be a silly twit.


POLISH CAMPS - camps in Poland holding Nazi prisoners. Suck it up and live with it crybaby. Jesus, it's a wonder you leave the house in the morning. Are you the next trendy issue we all need to be aware of.

Report me to the Mods that seems to be the current policy on here. Or get over yourself. Two options.

N Herts Eagle
04-08-2017, 07:21 AM
Fair enough. Two sides to a debate. There were major pogroms in Russia too though. You will not find me disagreeing about Russia. You will not find me disagreeing on the two sides of the debate. We live in different times we live in a more tolerant society with little comprehension of how we would react to the situation that people faced at the time.

PeterH
04-08-2017, 07:24 AM
And FWIW I enjoyed my visit to Poland circa 1990 and went to Auschwitz. And the memory will never leave.

A nation used and abused and abandoned.

Yet, you're on here asking me for an apology for a misuse of words. I bet the British and Americans referred to them as the Polish camps 1942 through to 1947. Now you have to pussyfoot around everything. I hope I offended you, it might wake you up from the stupid you seem to be living in. Might shake you out of the paralll universe you seem to be inhabiting away from normal people.

Vince Hilaire's Afro
04-08-2017, 07:26 AM
Gene Hackman was treated very disrespectfully in A Bridge too Far, perhaps on account of his accent?

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 07:40 AM
Bollox to that precious panties. You knew what I meant. Don't start that taking faux offence shit with me.

Obama is an international politician. I'm writing on a football message board.

The camps in Poland, the polish camps- so fecking what. What's offensive is having a huge tifo at football waved around by people who probably waveNazi symbols at other times. And you're picking me up on a language point.

Don't be a silly twit.


POLISH CAMPS - camps in Poland holding Nazi prisoners. Suck it up and live with it crybaby. Jesus, it's a wonder you leave the house in the morning. Are you the next trendy issue we all need to be aware of.

Report me to the Mods that seems to be the current policy on here. Or get over yourself. Two options.

Ok. Would you like a cup of tea

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 07:46 AM
...and is there someone to look after you?

Polish Pete
04-08-2017, 08:05 AM
Seriously though. I dont want to get into an argument with you Peter as we have been chatting on threads since my Bermuda days so i apologize if i caused any offence.
You have to realise its quite a serious thing at the moment. The termology is a very sore point at the moment as its a type of a rewrite of history. Very common these days. My goal is only to try and correct the truth in this matter. I am sure u undertsand. There are countless cases about this even in current german school books referring to polish camps. I as a previous poster noted am trying to stop the warping of history. Be that on a football forum or something else. Feel free to pm me as have always respected your opinion

http://www.thenews.pl/1/2/Artykul/317828,German-broadcaster-refuses-to-apologise-for-%E2%80%98Polish-death-camp%E2%80%99-reference-report

CP-RJW
04-08-2017, 01:06 PM
Serious question. Who carried out the calculations to reach that conclusion and how? Did Nazi collaborators have to officially register by filling in a form or something?
The Israeli War Crimes Commission (ironic name I know) iirc, no idea how they got their statistics.

Vince Hilaire's Afro
04-08-2017, 01:16 PM
Great country great People....how the hell could any Pole be far right Nazi or also even far left after the killings the Russians also did while splitting the country with the Germans.

I think to some people, their ideologies are more important than their nationalities. In addition to the countries listed earlier in the thread, there were even Soviet and British Waffen SS Units during the war.

PeterH
05-08-2017, 03:49 PM
Just two words - polish camps. Little p. As in camps inPoland. But I understand the context. Like others I can't understand the concept of Nazi fanatic right wing Poles - ignorance personified.

Purepalace
05-08-2017, 04:13 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/legia-warsaw-fans-unveil-striking-10920110

Wow!

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/02/legia-warsaw-fans-tifo-warsaw-uprising

Very informative thanks for posting. May I ask why the writing is English and not Polish? Greater worldwide coverage?

stamford triumph
05-08-2017, 05:52 PM
There probably were some who knew full well what was happening. Lets switch the story here a bit now and talk about jewish collaboration with the NKVD. Found this article on net. Not sure of source but pretty much sums what i have heard from the older generation of the Polish community for decades in uk who were mainly from the east of Poland and what happened to them

http://dath125.livejournal.com/25934.html

I think this passage rather sums up where the author is on the political spectrum - surprised you didn't notice: "the Jews were like hungry dogs in front of a butcher shop"

Polish Pete
06-08-2017, 10:05 PM
I think this passage rather sums up where the author is on the political spectrum - surprised you didn't notice: "the Jews were like hungry dogs in front of a butcher shop"

Kind of figured that when I read that. :(