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View Full Version : Allardyce on The Debate Sky Sports 1


Mictor Voses
06-09-2017, 09:21 PM
Talking about the Palace after the break if anyone is interested.

Jimmy Eagle
06-09-2017, 09:38 PM
he talks so much sense :sob:

Mictor Voses
06-09-2017, 09:40 PM
Yep. It really is so simple. Defend properly, keep clean sheets and we can go from there.

Jimmy Eagle
06-09-2017, 09:41 PM
Doesn't sound like he is ruling himself out of other work in the future. He sounds like he wants a shot at top half club...

ForestGateEagle
06-09-2017, 09:43 PM
Doesn't sound like he is ruling himself out of other work in the future. He sounds like he wants a shot at top half club...

We could be, with him!

Winny
06-09-2017, 09:44 PM
Miss the straight talking sense Sam brought to the club

Will be gutted to see him lay his hat at another club

Parish do what you can to get him back

RCUK
06-09-2017, 09:49 PM
Wasn't sure about him when he signed up, still sit here gutted we didn't get him a few years before.

Come back Sam ... We love you.

GorBlimey
06-09-2017, 10:07 PM
Doesn't sound like he is ruling himself out of other work in the future. He sounds like he wants a shot at top half club...

Utter wankfest on this thread, which is a bit of a shocker.

This is from his resignation statement:

"But there comes a time when you have to take stock of what direction you want your life to take - and that's been the simple part for me.”

"I want to be able to savour life while I'm still relatively young and when I'm still relatively healthy, even if I'm beginning to feel all my 62 years.”

"While I've got the energy, I want to travel and also spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager. I owe that to my wife and family.”

"This is the right time for me, I know that in my heart. I have no ambitions to take another job, I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League.”

If he takes any managerial job in football, we'll all know what type of man he actually is.

CPFC.1990
06-09-2017, 10:07 PM
BFS must have known fully well what this season was going to be. We were dreadful in his last few games and that form continues. At this stage of his career I seriously doubt he wanted another Sunderland.

CPFC.1990
06-09-2017, 10:10 PM
Utter wankfest on this thread, which is a bit of a shocker.

This is from his resignation statement:

"But there comes a time when you have to take stock of what direction you want your life to take - and that's been the simple part for me.”

"I want to be able to savour life while I'm still relatively young and when I'm still relatively healthy, even if I'm beginning to feel all my 62 years.”

"While I've got the energy, I want to travel and also spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager. I owe that to my wife and family.”

"This is the right time for me, I know that in my heart. I have no ambitions to take another job, I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League.”

If he takes any managerial job in football, we'll all know what type of man he actually is.


I think that's fair. Many managers have crapped on us in the past so I'm kind of used to it. But, yes, if he turns up at another job that isn't someone like Bolton then I think he is just another Bruce, Warnock and Dowie.

philsick
06-09-2017, 10:15 PM
If he rocks up somewhere else he's an even bigger wanker than i thought he was.

Good Shipp
06-09-2017, 10:25 PM
I still haven't really got over him leaving. The reason I wanted Dyche in the Summer was because I saw a bit of Big Sam in him. Think I'd have to take a sabbatical from football if he was to take over at a relegation rival mid-season. You would just know how that would turn out. If he took over the big six or Everton, Leicester or maybe Southampton I'd accept that but he would go down in my estimation if he went elsewhere in the Premier League. Doubt he will though.

Oli28
06-09-2017, 10:26 PM
If he rocks up somewhere else he's an even bigger wanker than i thought he was.
Ever?

GorBlimey
06-09-2017, 10:34 PM
I still haven't really got over him leaving. The reason I wanted Dyche in the Summer was because I saw a bit of Big Sam in him. Think I'd have to take a sabbatical from football if he was to take over at a relegation rival mid-season. You would just know how that would turn out. If he took over the big six or Everton, Leicester or maybe Southampton I'd accept that but he would go down in my estimation if he went elsewhere in the Premier League. Doubt he will though.

He reneged on his 2 and 1/2 year contract so if he took another job managing any club other than a pub side then I think Mr. Parish would have the lawyers working overtime.

"Sam Allardyce, we're having your house!"

TouchyAndalou
06-09-2017, 10:36 PM
Of course he's going to take another job. I'd be shocked if he wasn't with another Premier League club later this season. He didn't quit to "travel and spend time with his kids". Please. He's just waiting for a "better" job.

firesign
06-09-2017, 10:47 PM
I could see him being manager of one the other home nations or Rep of Ireland either after the WC or after they have failed to qualify.

Kidofwonder
06-09-2017, 10:49 PM
Managing Palace is all risk and no reward for someone with one big job left in them and a reputation to re-enhance.

Billy Rhino
06-09-2017, 10:53 PM
Managing Palace is all risk and no reward for someone with one big job left in them and a reputation to re-enhance.

:confused:

New LP
06-09-2017, 10:57 PM
Of course none of us really know what happened with him leaving. And like with Pulis before we probably never will either as confidentiality clauses will have been signed. But it's not surprising to see the usual people queuing up to pain BFS as the villain of the piece here. I think what we've seen since he left could provide some explanation as to why he wasn't so keen to hang around.

New LP
06-09-2017, 11:03 PM
He reneged on his 2 and 1/2 year contract so if he took another job managing any club other than a pub side then I think Mr. Parish would have the lawyers working overtime.

"Sam Allardyce, we're having your house!"


So you seem to know a lot about what goes on so explain to me the terms of his contract which would justify your accusation that he reneged on it? I would imagine an employee can resign from his contract if he wishes and that Parish accepted his resignation? It didn't seem to be an acrimonious departure at all. Was there a guarantee from him that he wouldn't take another job? And by guarantee I mean something legally binding not just a few non specific words in a press conference about wishing to spend more time with his family.

Heaven forbid of course that you are just speculating or even possibly using a word you don't understand the meaning of?

GorBlimey
06-09-2017, 11:14 PM
So you seem to know a lot about what goes on so explain to me the terms of his contract which would justify your accusation that he reneged on it? I would imagine an employee can resign from his contract if he wishes and that Parish accepted his resignation? It didn't seem to be an acrimonious departure at all. Was there a guarantee from him that he wouldn't take another job? And by guarantee I mean something legally binding not just a few non specific words in a press conference about wishing to spend more time with his family.

Heaven forbid of course that you are just speculating or even possibly using a word you don't understand the meaning of?

His resignation is in the public domain - I've quoted some of it.

He had a 2 1/2 year contract and if you leave after 6 months, you are reneging on it. What do you find so difficult to understand about that?

If we'd fired him after 6 months, we would owe him compensation.

If he joins another club, we'd have a really good case to sue him for compensation for lying.

As per Dowie and Pulis.

Why have you got your head so far up BFS's arse that you can't see reality?

jimmy the gent
06-09-2017, 11:21 PM
We dont really offer him anything he needs. He's minted, has restored his reputation, and doesn't need to get back on the wheel of relegation scraps. Sad to say but he could do a lot better than us now.

Stats74
06-09-2017, 11:35 PM
Thought the deal was if goes to another club in the next two years they have to pay £2million in compensation.

jimmy the gent
06-09-2017, 11:44 PM
Well whoopee shit.

Dedders
06-09-2017, 11:56 PM
We dont really offer him anything he needs. He's minted, has restored his reputation, and doesn't need to get back on the wheel of relegation scraps. Sad to say but he could do a lot better than us now.

We are an enormous pay day to him and a club where he has some friends and potentially some nostalgia

EdMan
07-09-2017, 12:27 AM
Thought the deal was if goes to another club in the next two years they have to pay £2million in compensation.

I never heard that, but it seems reasonable.

averity
07-09-2017, 12:51 AM
That's what it said in the news when he left

hughff
07-09-2017, 02:55 AM
Cards on the table - I wasn't keen on the appointment BFFS and I don't think that what he achieved was as impressive as some others obviously do...
BUT...
He did do what he was appointed to do and, having departed early, he has not signed for anyone else.

I said during those first few games when he was in charge and many were calling for his head that we had to give him time - the same applies to FdB, of course. Similarly, I see no point in discussing how we should respond if he signs for someone else. Only if he does should we have this conversation.

Slimbloke'H'
07-09-2017, 05:09 AM
His resignation is in the public domain - I've quoted some of it.

He had a 2 1/2 year contract and if you leave after 6 months, you are reneging on it. What do you find so difficult to understand about that?...

I'm not sure what New LP's thoughts on your post are, but here's my two pennyworth.

If the contract SP and BFS signed allowed for an agreeable 'parting of the ways' after six months - should either party chose to invoke the get out clause - then neither party has done anything wrong.

I do wonder if there's anything difficult to understand about that?

rednblue eagle
07-09-2017, 05:35 AM
Utter wankfest on this thread, which is a bit of a shocker.

This is from his resignation statement:

"But there comes a time when you have to take stock of what direction you want your life to take - and that's been the simple part for me.”

"I want to be able to savour life while I'm still relatively young and when I'm still relatively healthy, even if I'm beginning to feel all my 62 years.”

"While I've got the energy, I want to travel and also spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager. I owe that to my wife and family.”

"This is the right time for me, I know that in my heart. I have no ambitions to take another job, I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League.”

If he takes any managerial job in football, we'll all know what type of man he actually is.

Why the anger? He undoubtedly saved us from relegation last season. There probably were other reasons behind why he left and he may well take another job but you can't compare him to Pulis, Dowie or Bruce.

Not every resignation letter is an accurate reflection of why people want to leave their job.

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 05:45 AM
His resignation is in the public domain - I've quoted some of it.

He had a 2 1/2 year contract and if you leave after 6 months, you are reneging on it. What do you find so difficult to understand about that?

If we'd fired him after 6 months, we would owe him compensation.

If he joins another club, we'd have a really good case to sue him for compensation for lying.

As per Dowie and Pulis.

Why have you got your head so far up BFS's arse that you can't see reality?

It's actually become funny watching you get so wound up about Sam

I'm desperate for him to go to another club just so I can watch your metldown and self combustion :supergrin:

Penstone Eagle
07-09-2017, 05:52 AM
Great listening to Sam on talksport this morning, such a shame he left.

Now we have Frank dour bore in charge. No wonder the players look fed up.

HRS
07-09-2017, 06:04 AM
Cards on the table - I wasn't keen on the appointment BFFS and I don't think that what he achieved was as impressive as some others obviously do...
BUT...
He did do what he was appointed to do and, having departed early, he has not signed for anyone else.

I said during those first few games when he was in charge and many were calling for his head that we had to give him time - the same applies to FdB, of course. Similarly, I see no point in discussing how we should respond if he signs for someone else. Only if he does should we have this conversation.

Certainly a reasonable opinion but I would ask how many managers in our modern history have actually achieved what they were brought in to do?

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:10 AM
He was definitely affected by the loss of a friend, Jane Tweddle-Taylor, in the Manchester bombing. So it's a bit crass to proclaim the 'wanting to spend time with family and kids' thing a lie. Who knows how any of us would cope in that situation, particularly in a job which by nature estranges you from your beloveds for significant lengths of time?

But he also definitely had started to make plans for next season, and the rumour that he was told there was no money for a potential Jermain Defoe signing and it caused a schism between he and board also makes some sense. Particularly when you look at our reluctance to spend over the summer, until the last-ditch all-eggs-in-one-basket grab of Sakho.

Dunno what my conclusions are here, and certainly don't know the truth. But I suspect his reasons for 'retiring' were a combination of the above, and I certainly wouldn't judge him negatively given the first of those reasons. We seem to have this assumption that because people in football earn huge amounts of money they should forget the concept of, y'know, being human, when in fact it can be a very lonely, health-affecting game even at the top level. Or rather, especially at the top level, given the fan and media scrutiny of every quote, footstep and bowel movement.

Tim
07-09-2017, 06:14 AM
He won't get a top half of the premier league job. He's a relegation specialist & that's the only job he's ever likely to get.

What's more concerning for us is why are Managers like him & TP prepared to give up millions just to get away from us?

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 06:21 AM
He won't get a top half of the premier league job. He's a relegation specialist & that's the only job he's ever likely to get.

What's more concerning for us is why are Managers like him & TP prepared to give up millions just to get away from us?

Not sure they're 'giving up millions' as they know pretty much with 100% certainty that they will walk into another job on at least the same £ probably more, given their time with us was successful (see SA and TP)

Zohar's Penalty
07-09-2017, 06:30 AM
If Sam was re-appointed tomorrow, I wouldn't even for a second, think we might go down. Common sense manager, not a pretentious fantasist intent on making cloggers play like Xavi & Iniesta.

Golf Boy
07-09-2017, 06:31 AM
I'm not sure what New LP's thoughts on your post are, but here's my two pennyworth.

If the contract SP and BFS signed allowed for an agreeable 'parting of the ways' after six months - should either party chose to invoke the get out clause - then neither party has done anything wrong.

I do wonder if there's anything difficult to understand about that?

What's difficult for Gor Blimey is that he replaced (the ultimate ****), Pardew.

philsick
07-09-2017, 06:32 AM
Of course none of us really know what happened with him leaving. And like with Pulis before we probably never will either as confidentiality clauses will have been signed. But it's not surprising to see the usual people queuing up to pain BFS as the villain of the piece here. I think what we've seen since he left could provide some explanation as to why he wasn't so keen to hang around.

We do know what happened with pulis there was a detailed courtcase about it he lost and had to give us back the dosh he conned us for plus more.The mans a lying arsehole. And if allardye walks out a few months into a contract he signed but takes another job which he's agreed not to, he'a lying arsehole too.

Ifhe does rock up somewhere else lets hope parish sends someone to the press conference with a bill for the 2 mill jordan v dowie style.

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 06:35 AM
We do know what happened with pulis there was a detailed courtcase about it he lost and had to give us back the dosh he conned us for plus more.The mans a lying arsehole. And if allardye walks out a few months into a contract he signed but takes another job which he's agreed not to, he'a lying arsehole too.

Ifhe does rock up somewhere else lets hope parish sends someone to the press conference with a bill for the 2 mill jordan v dowie style.

That's just bollocks

Completely different circumstances

Jesus wept

Golf Boy
07-09-2017, 06:37 AM
We do know what happened with pulis there was a detailed courtcase about it he lost and had to give us back the dosh he conned us for plus more.The mans a lying arsehole. And if allardye walks out a few months into a contract he signed but takes another job which he's agreed not to, he'a lying arsehole too.

Ifhe does rock up somewhere else lets hope parish sends someone to the press conference with a bill for the 2 mill jordan v dowie style.

After what happened with Pulis, surely all bases are covered from both sides here.

cpfcfan1
07-09-2017, 06:43 AM
Pulis and Sam are terrific premier league managers, both who would take this side forward, hope De Boer can turn it around.

philsick
07-09-2017, 06:51 AM
That's just bollocks

Completely different circumstances

Jesus wept

Why is it different?

Dowie " want to move up north to be with family"
Allardyce" want to give up football to be with the wife and kids"

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 06:54 AM
Why is it different?

Dowie " want to move up north to be with family"
Allardyce" want to give up football to be with the wife and kids"

If you need to be told that then you're dafter than I thought

The terms of SA leaving were agreed when he left. Dowies were not

If you can't see the difference between Dowie and Allardyce then there really is no hope for you

Maiden Eagle
07-09-2017, 07:00 AM
Cards on the table - I wasn't keen on the appointment BFFS and I don't think that what he achieved was as impressive as some others obviously do...
BUT...
He did do what he was appointed to do and, having departed early, he has not signed for anyone else.

I said during those first few games when he was in charge and many were calling for his head that we had to give him time - the same applies to FdB, of course. Similarly, I see no point in discussing how we should respond if he signs for someone else. Only if he does should we have this conversation.

This pretty well sums up how I feel. Just heard Big Sam say on TS that he going to do some TV work in Malaysia very soon, which doesn't suggest that he is looking for a job, ATM. He probably will rock up at some Club at some stage. But as fans, we need to move on and support the new Manager, even if he has made a lousy start.

philsick
07-09-2017, 07:05 AM
If you need to be told that then you're dafter than I thought

The terms of SA leaving were agreed when he left. Dowies were not

If you can't see the difference between Dowie and Allardyce then there really is no hope for you

Dowies terms were agreed that's why we served a writ, he broke them.

And if allardyce rocks up somewhere else it should be him that pays up not his new club. But lets hope he keeps to his word, i mean he hasn't got a record of being dodgy :rolleyes:

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 07:10 AM
Dowies terms were agreed that's why we served a writ, he broke them.

And if allardyce rocks up somewhere else it should be him that pays up not his new club. But lets hope he keeps to his word, i mean he hasn't got a record of being dodgy :rolleyes:

Give it up

You and Gor just can't bare the thought that he actually saved us. You would rather he had failed and we had gone down

Pathetic stuff

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 07:10 AM
He's a top manager and we are much worse off without him. Such a shame as we'd be in for a good season if he were here. He would have excelled with a full pre season and 3-4 new signings. Oh for a manager that plays people in their best positions and chooses a formation that fits the players you've got...

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 07:11 AM
Give it up

You and Gor just can't bare the thought that he actually saved us. You would rather he had failed and we had gone down

Pathetic stuff

Well said. Bizarre how even now some people criticise Allardyce after he saved us.

bubbs11
07-09-2017, 07:18 AM
Palace and Allardyce was a perfect marriage. Just met at the wrong time.

philsick
07-09-2017, 07:32 AM
Give it up

You and Gor just can't bare the thought that he actually saved us. You would rather he had failed and we had gone down

Pathetic stuff

So you cant answer the question ok.

Worksop Palace
07-09-2017, 07:37 AM
So you cant answer the question ok.

There's no debating with you Phil

ExiledStirling
07-09-2017, 07:42 AM
What's more concerning for us is why are Managers like him & TP prepared to give up millions just to get away from us?
TP was not prepared to give up millions.

It was why he ended up in court and proved to be a lying bastard.

philsick
07-09-2017, 07:43 AM
There's no debating with you Phil

Well you didn't even try you just said it was bollox and that was the depth of your debate. I'll ask one more time. If allardyce takes another job what would be the difference between that and what dowie did?

Reg_Maudling
07-09-2017, 07:49 AM
I witnessed someone screaming personal abuse right close up to allardyce after the sunderland game and I bet he thought he doenst need that any more after all his time in football
He had great mental strength to turn it round after the sunderland defeat which I blame on pardew for destroying the confidence of the players and especially at home where allardyce identified the players were playing with fear in front of their own supporters after having lost so many games in the previous 18 months many thrown away by the incompetent but oh so charming super alan

CamberleyEagle
07-09-2017, 07:59 AM
Hopefully Mr Parish is just focusing on the important stuff

He reneged on his 2 and 1/2 year contract so if he took another job managing any club other than a pub side then I think Mr. Parish would have the lawyers working overtime.

"Sam Allardyce, we're having your house!"

WLYWLYAWYPWF
07-09-2017, 08:23 AM
Well you didn't even try you just said it was bollox and that was the depth of your debate. I'll ask one more time. If allardyce takes another job what would be the difference between that and what dowie did?

Surely a person has the right to change their mind over the course of time?
If Allardyce finds it difficult to retire and returns to work after a period of time away from the game then that is his prerogative. The difference between that and telling a bare faced lie to get immediately released from your contract compensation free and then taking a job with your local "rivals" who just sent you down is fairly stark in my opinion.

Shoreditch CPFC
07-09-2017, 08:24 AM
Well you didn't even try you just said it was bollox and that was the depth of your debate. I'll ask one more time. If allardyce takes another job what would be the difference between that and what dowie did?

I tend to agree Phil but with Dowie we know it was premeditated. It's possible that Allardyce really had had enough of football and then feels differently after a break. There were also rumours about serious health issues that were kept out if the press but if he's doing the talk show circuit that now seems unlikely. We won't really know until we see how it unfolds.

gilesy14
07-09-2017, 08:25 AM
He reneged on his 2 and 1/2 year contract so if he took another job managing any club other than a pub side then I think Mr. Parish would have the lawyers working overtime.

"Sam Allardyce, we're having your house!"

F*ck off you bollock talking drip.

CharlieCPFC
07-09-2017, 08:32 AM
For me the bottom line is the club is at a crossroads. We've appointed de Boer to try and transition the style of play and SP has openly said that. But I think now the clubs realised they've potentially made a big mistake and underestimated the work required to be successful changing it up.

We've got a really solid platform still that we can build off, Sakho, Schlupp, Luka, Zaha, Benteke you can add Fosu Mensah and Loftus Cheek for a season. But they're all players of a criteria that you'd traditionally associate with a Palace side. They're all physical battlers who'd thrive off a quick tempo direct style of football. And that doesn't mean long ball as the purists would assume. It's penetration with a purpose, I think if we got a fit in like Dyche or Wilder with a better recruitment department behind them we'd have been in the perfect place.

Instead we opted to change everything up but we haven't really given the tools to de Boer in my opinion to do so. Now ultimately Parish is asking questions not only on de Boer but on himself in which direction he wants to take this club forwards.

Bourne Eagle
07-09-2017, 08:39 AM
If Sam was re-appointed tomorrow, I wouldn't even for a second, think we might go down. Common sense manager, not a pretentious fantasist intent on making cloggers play like Xavi & Iniesta.

Which begs the question why after 4 seasons at the top table we still have cloggers:wallbash:

Nigelbrag
07-09-2017, 08:54 AM
Firstly, as for taking on another managers position in the future that was always going to happen imo if the terms are going to be right, it's the nature of the beast.
But take nothing away from Big Sam's ability to lift a club like Palace and to make them perform above their weight, no magic formula only by purely recognising and playing to his players strengths doing nothing fancy but simple and effective, but also if supported in the transfer market.
Just like Tony Pulis does, which makes Both these guys unique managers to appointment for clubs of our stature for most likely a mid table position, and as good a guarantee of avoiding relegation as you can get.
Yes, i would have Sam Allardyce everyday as manager of CPFC as he fits our profile perfectly, and this is the huge error Parish made in NOT appointing Sean Dyche as his replacement so as to carry on seamlessly what SA had started, really would have made sense Steve Parish.

Harry Holmesdale
07-09-2017, 09:02 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

WLYWLYAWYPWF
07-09-2017, 09:09 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

Yeah. When you see how long Pulis has stuck around at WBA it does beg that question. I thought he might turn in to a serial troubleshooter who just took over seemingly doomed teams but clearly not.

Popester
07-09-2017, 09:10 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

I suspect there are two very different answers to the same question when it comes to TP and SA.

gilesy14
07-09-2017, 09:11 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

Well yes, exactly. But you're not allowed to do that on this board...

brighton_eagle
07-09-2017, 09:13 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

That's A question.

Another question is why some supporters of our club prefer to side with mercenary managers rather than the club itself.

Harry Holmesdale
07-09-2017, 09:18 AM
That's A question.

Another question is why some supporters of our club prefer to side with mercenary managers rather than the club itself.

But they are not mercenary are they, both have track records of sticking around for quite a period of time at other clubs just not Palace, why?

Windsor_Eagle
07-09-2017, 09:26 AM
I think it is quite a simple answer to the question (though I am still prepared to give Sam the benefit of the doubt regarding personal reasons).

Steve Parish strikes us all as a very 'hands on' chairman. Some managers don't like that at all. Others are fine with it. Some fans don't like that. Others are fine with it.

Parish, as I see it, has two objectives as chairman of the club - 1) to oversee its management and progression 2) to safeguard it against financial ruin which, if it happened again, would surely sink us.

I think his prominent involvement with the club in terms of the media and the manager-chairman relationship is his way of meeting those objectives. There is an argument for saying he should just delegate to experts (appointing an experienced-in-the-game CEO has its merits, however, we have an equivalent in Phil Alexander who outside the Palace fan base is well respected), but we know how mercenary managers can be (TP showed his colours several times) and because of that I can see why someone may not just want to let said manager run the show with minimal checks and balances.

Parish is not perfect, he is not the devil incarnate either and I think it all too easy to find various angles to slate every single thing about the club and point it back to one person. Trust me, if he were to sell up and move on, I'd say there's a greater than 80% chance that whomever takes the reins could leave even the most ardent 'Anti-Parish' posters secretly wishing that he'd come back.

If we can get a few good games and wins / points under our belts, the usual belly aching will subside once again.

SEEPEEEFFSEE
07-09-2017, 09:26 AM
If Sam was re-appointed tomorrow, I wouldn't even for a second, think we might go down. Common sense manager, not a pretentious fantasist intent on making cloggers play like Xavi & Iniesta.

Absolutely 100% bang on the money.

palacea
07-09-2017, 09:33 AM
That's A question.

Another question is why some supporters of our club prefer to side with mercenary managers rather than the club itself.

'the club' you really mean Parish.

We all want's best for Crystal Palace, not one man, and if other's disagree with you doesn't mean they want any less for Palace than you or anyone else.

Tim
07-09-2017, 09:35 AM
TP was not prepared to give up millions.

It was why he ended up in court and proved to be a lying bastard.

True, but the point is he was obviously pretty desperate to leave.

The question is Why? Same applies to SA?

Ooh Betty
07-09-2017, 09:38 AM
(appointing an experienced-in-the-game CEO has its merits, however, we have an equivalent in Phil Alexander.

Beautifully understated. Made me laugh out loud.

Garfy
07-09-2017, 09:42 AM
Firstly, as for taking on another managers position in the future that was always going to happen imo if the terms are going to be right, it's the nature of the beast.
But take nothing away from Big Sam's ability to lift a club like Palace and to make them perform above their weight, no magic formula only by purely recognising and playing to his players strengths doing nothing fancy but simple and effective, but also if supported in the transfer market.
Just like Tony Pulis does, which makes Both these guys unique managers to appointment for clubs of our stature for most likely a mid table position, and as good a guarantee of avoiding relegation as you can get.
Yes, i would have Sam Allardyce everyday as manager of CPFC as he fits our profile perfectly, and this is the huge error Parish made in NOT appointing Sean Dyche as his replacement so as to carry on seamlessly what SA had started, really would have made sense Steve Parish.

Agree totally.

gilesy14
07-09-2017, 09:47 AM
http://www.football365.com/news/crystal-palace-cannot-shake-their-part-time-lovers

palacea
07-09-2017, 09:51 AM
Firstly, as for taking on another managers position in the future that was always going to happen imo if the terms are going to be right, it's the nature of the beast.
But take nothing away from Big Sam's ability to lift a club like Palace and to make them perform above their weight, no magic formula only by purely recognising and playing to his players strengths doing nothing fancy but simple and effective, but also if supported in the transfer market.
Just like Tony Pulis does, which makes Both these guys unique managers to appointment for clubs of our stature for most likely a mid table position, and as good a guarantee of avoiding relegation as you can get.
Yes, i would have Sam Allardyce everyday as manager of CPFC as he fits our profile perfectly, and this is the huge error Parish made in NOT appointing Sean Dyche as his replacement so as to carry on seamlessly what SA had started, really would have made sense Steve Parish.

Changing the style yet again, may or not work. But not backing that new manager in a new change of style, when there obviously isn't any money or unwilling to spend, makes the whole appointment bizarre. Having said that the common theme throughout the last 5 or so years, has been doing things on the cheap. We have tried again to change the style and hired a new man in hope, rather than serious judgement within reality.

Nigelbrag
07-09-2017, 09:52 AM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

Is it a possibility due to a lack of support from the Board?
When having saved the club from certain relegation until their appointment, you would rightly expect transfer funds so as to move your club up to the next level, and not want a repeat.
In the case of Pulis we have heard so many rumours and self made stories as to why he left, when in effect NONE of us know the real truth all pure guesswork.
My own view is having saved the club from certain relegation and without ANY money spent in doing so, it was only right that in the summer window support was needed to take the club hopefully to the next level, but if during discussions it transpired it was Not forthcoming could that have triggered off the breakdown in relationship between Chairman and Manager? we will never know i suppose.
But rather strangely the same pattern followed in the summer when Sam Allardyce having performed the same miracle, all be it he Was supported well in the January window, but when after discussions with Steve Parish which surely would have taken place of available funds in the Summer window so as to progress the club further, possibly to be told it would be very restricted, then decided to walk TWO days after the season ended, seems to have a familiar ring about it?
This is just my spin on how i saw it.
But then having seen how after appointing Frank de Boer being treated with a total lack of funds available when it should have been a must without question, does make me realise it could well be the reasons why our previously very successful managers decided to walk away rater unexpectably, could it be there is a lot of truth to it being a possibility?
All hearsay as we will never know the truth, but it has been a telling pattern since Pulis and Allardyce.

brighton_eagle
07-09-2017, 09:52 AM
But they are not mercenary are they, both have track records of sticking around for quite a period of time at other clubs just not Palace, why?

I believe Pulis has been proven a mercenary as a matter of law. As for BFS, well, it's not entirely without blemish is it.

brighton_eagle
07-09-2017, 09:53 AM
'the club' you really mean Parish.

We all want's best for Crystal Palace, not one man, and if other's disagree with you doesn't mean they want any less for Palace than you or anyone else.

No, I mean the club. Of which Parish is an element.

palacea
07-09-2017, 09:58 AM
http://www.football365.com/news/crystal-palace-cannot-shake-their-part-time-lovers

Good read.

and this sums up the situation

It is also about giving the manager the tools to succeed in his job, and it is here where Palace have truly failed De Boer. It’s one thing appointing a manager with the opposite playing style and outlook to his predecessor – despite saying that you wouldn’t – but another thing entirely to do that and then fail to back him in the transfer market.

“I had a good feeling about the club and the prospect of managing a team in the Premier League was exciting,” said De Boer at his unveiling. “This club can grow further and further. They spend a lot of money and there is the possibility to do something well with that money.”

Nigelbrag
07-09-2017, 10:02 AM
Changing the style yet again, may or not work. But not backing that new manager in a new change of style, when there obviously isn't any money or unwilling to spend, makes the whole appointment bizarre. Having said that the common theme throughout the last 5 or so years, has been doing things on the cheap. We have tried again to change the style and hired a new man in hope, rather than serious judgement within reality.

Bizarre is putting it mildly, shambolic is what i would say in how Steve Parish has conducted managerial business in the past 2/3 years, and this latest episode with FdB sums it up.:wallbash:

Terrace Bickle
07-09-2017, 10:04 AM
Imagine, for a moment, that he rocked up at Brighton later this season.

Son of Ron
07-09-2017, 10:22 AM
Imagine, for a moment, that he rocked up at Brighton later this season.

then I would take Chris Hughton in a heart-beat.

swissroll
07-09-2017, 10:34 AM
For me the bottom line is the club is at a crossroads. We've appointed de Boer to try and transition the style of play and SP has openly said that. But I think now the clubs realised they've potentially made a big mistake and underestimated the work required to be successful changing it up.

We've got a really solid platform still that we can build off, Sakho, Schlupp, Luka, Zaha, Benteke you can add Fosu Mensah and Loftus Cheek for a season. But they're all players of a criteria that you'd traditionally associate with a Palace side. They're all physical battlers who'd thrive off a quick tempo direct style of football. And that doesn't mean long ball as the purists would assume. It's penetration with a purpose, I think if we got a fit in like Dyche or Wilder with a better recruitment department behind them we'd have been in the perfect place.

Instead we opted to change everything up but we haven't really given the tools to de Boer in my opinion to do so. Now ultimately Parish is asking questions not only on de Boer but on himself in which direction he wants to take this club forwards.

Sums it up really, tons of money spent but the outcome 2 seasons in a row has been a bit of a shambles. Hopefully Dougie proves to be the link that gives the club proper football direction, and looks like the next firefighter manager will get appointed soon.

gamesmeister
07-09-2017, 11:36 AM
Good read.

and this sums up the situation

It is also about giving the manager the tools to succeed in his job, and it is here where Palace have truly failed De Boer. It’s one thing appointing a manager with the opposite playing style and outlook to his predecessor – despite saying that you wouldn’t – but another thing entirely to do that and then fail to back him in the transfer market.

“I had a good feeling about the club and the prospect of managing a team in the Premier League was exciting,” said De Boer at his unveiling. “This club can grow further and further. They spend a lot of money and there is the possibility to do something well with that money.”

I don't believe that FdB was sold a story when he joined that Palace had loads of money to spend, and he would be able to buy whatever he needed. I just don't buy it.

Parish must have given him some indication how much there was to spend - indeed, Frank promised evolution over revolution, which suggests that he knew he couldn't change things overnight. It doesn't seem to have stopped him from trying though.

art malice
07-09-2017, 11:38 AM
Imagine, for a moment, that he rocked up at Brighton later this season.

And his luck finally runs out

Eaglesmad123
07-09-2017, 11:41 AM
The fact three mangers have wanted to leave under Parish is very worrying

racehorse-80s
07-09-2017, 11:47 AM
I doubt Sam would be as good second time around as his heart would not be in it , Unfortunately the moment has passed and Frank is now struggling to pick up from where Sam left the club and Squad .

ForzaPalace
07-09-2017, 11:51 AM
The fact three mangers have wanted to leave under Parish is very worrying

Yeah but he signed Sakho so whatever else he does is irrelevant

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 11:53 AM
Why the anger? He undoubtedly saved us from relegation last season. There probably were other reasons behind why he left and he may well take another job but you can't compare him to Pulis, Dowie or Bruce.

Not every resignation letter is an accurate reflection of why people want to leave their job.

Undoubtedly saved us from relegation?

For that to be the case you have to know that under Pardew we would have been relegated and some doubt that would have happened and certainly no-one can know that for sure! The stats also show the main factor in us staying up was a period of 8 games coinciding with Sakho playing. Apart from that we were relegation fodder under him.

Fatboy
07-09-2017, 12:00 PM
Going 2-0 down before we started playing didn't help with Pardew.

Eltham_Eagle
07-09-2017, 12:06 PM
Totally agree with you Gonzo. Under Sam's resign we were toilet when Sakho wasn't playing. Sunderland, Burnley were no different to what we have seen this season. Hull basically threw the ball in their own net. Hopefully the hysteria will subside when Sakho is back playing.

SEEPEEEFFSEE
07-09-2017, 12:06 PM
Imagine, for a moment, that he rocked up at Brighton later this season.

Given his record at doing what he does, he would only go if he was sure he could keep them up. I really can't see they will be an attractive proposition come Xmas if they're rock bottom.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 12:06 PM
Going 2-0 down before we started playing didn't help with Pardew.

What cost Pardew was the inability of the him and the team to see out a game.

At Burnley having come back from 2 down the point was a good result, Pardew, as was his way, chased all 3 and the sucker punch only cost a point but was far more harmful than that. It was compounded 3 weeks later by the 5-4 losing when winning 4-3 on 90 minutes.

However i still think the critical issue, as i said over 12 months ago, was we went into the season with too few defenders in the squad and no cover at LB. No, no-one could foresee Souare having a car crash but it was the mistake of management, AND the board to leave us short in any position.

We have made the same mistake again this year!

igl
07-09-2017, 12:17 PM
Undoubtedly saved us from relegation?

For that to be the case you have to know that under Pardew we would have been relegated and some doubt that would have happened and certainly no-one can know that for sure! The stats also show the main factor in us staying up was a period of 8 games coinciding with Sakho playing. Apart from that we were relegation fodder under him.

Why so pedantic?
I think the majority of people believe that SA saved us from relegation.
The fact of the matter is that his signings, which included Sakho, had a big say in us staying up.

igl
07-09-2017, 12:18 PM
However i still think the critical issue, as i said over 12 months ago, was we went into the season with too few defenders in the squad and no cover at LB. No, no-one could foresee Souare having a car crash but it was the mistake of management, AND the board to leave us short in any position.

We have made the same mistake again this year!

I quite agree with this though!

Ridcully
07-09-2017, 12:27 PM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

Is that really a question? Surely its obvious, you get a £2m bonus to keep Palace up. Once you've achieved it you get paid the same amount minus your bonus, why would anyone stay to do a harder job for less money? Anyone that has done their homework on Palace know that they only spend stupid money when they have to (ie in a panic), all the other times they look for value.

There is absolutely no incentive for any half decent manager to stay. This is why we should be going for someone on little money with a reputation to build, like Dyche, rather than a name with everything to lose imho.

Until we break this cycle we are destined for this to repeat, until we run out of luck.

cdm61
07-09-2017, 12:41 PM
http://www.football365.com/news/crystal-palace-cannot-shake-their-part-time-lovers

This is the problem

"Under Parish’s stewardship, Palace have gone through eight permanent managers and three different caretakers in seven years. None have lasted longer than 90 matches and, of those 20 shortest Premier League reigns, Parish will account for three if De Boer is sacked. Each new coach has new ideas and brings a new list of transfer targets".

Dalianeagle
07-09-2017, 12:45 PM
In any business it is natural that an owner will not invest in a manager that he does not have confidence in when there are limited funds to invest. CPFC is like this. SP does not own Saudi Arabia so you can't expect him to behave like man city does. We are what we are. We will have to scramble, as always.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 12:55 PM
Yes, one defender did his job plus the jobs of nine other outfield players and a goalkeeper for the entirely of half a season.

Sakho improved us immeasurably, but everyone around him stepped up their game too, and even the much-maligned Henno had his best spell at the club.

But sure, that's all on Mamadou; and Allardyce, Lee and Margetson were innocent bystanders during training throughout the week and on matchdays.

Think about what you write before you write it, people. Come on.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 01:09 PM
Yes, one defender did his job plus the jobs of nine other outfield players and a goalkeeper for the entirely of half a season.

Sakho improved us immeasurably, but everyone around him stepped up their game too, and even the much-maligned Henno had his best spell at the club.

But sure, that's all on Mamadou; and Allardyce, Lee and Margetson were innocent bystanders during training throughout the week and on matchdays.

Think about what you write before you write it, people. Come on.

Ben you cannot deny the stark difference between the form and points gained before he played his first game against Boro and again as soon as he was injured.

4pts in 8 games before 0.5pts/game
19pts in 9 games from them till he was injured (which include Liverpool where he didn't play) 2.1pts/game
3pts in 5 games after his injury - 0.6pts/game

We had almost identical form before he played and after he was injured and significantly different form whilst he was starting for us. We can discuss reasons as to why Liverpool when he didn't play went for us but why was the form with and without him so different?

Yes i think the manager has to shoulder a significant amount of the responsibility for that! Pardew certainly did.

Fatboy
07-09-2017, 01:13 PM
What cost Pardew was the inability of the him and the team to see out a game.

At Burnley having come back from 2 down the point was a good result, Pardew, as was his way, chased all 3 and the sucker punch only cost a point but was far more harmful than that. It was compounded 3 weeks later by the 5-4 losing when winning 4-3 on 90 minutes.

However i still think the critical issue, as i said over 12 months ago, was we went into the season with too few defenders in the squad and no cover at LB. No, no-one could foresee Souare having a car crash but it was the mistake of management, AND the board to leave us short in any position.

We have made the same mistake again this year!

Yep.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”

Fatboy
07-09-2017, 01:17 PM
Ben you cannot deny the stark difference between the form and points gained before he played his first game against Boro and again as soon as he was injured.

4pts in 8 games before 0.5pts/game
19pts in 9 games from them till he was injured (which include Liverpool where he didn't play) 2.1pts/game
3pts in 5 games after his injury - 0.6pts/game

We had almost identical form before he played and after he was injured and significantly different form whilst he was starting for us. We can discuss reasons as to why Liverpool when he didn't play went for us but why was the form with and without him so different?

Yes i think the manager has to shoulder a significant amount of the responsibility for that! Pardew certainly did.

No other leaders on the pitch ?

GrayP41ace
07-09-2017, 01:22 PM
Yes, one defender did his job plus the jobs of nine other outfield players and a goalkeeper for the entirely of half a season.

Sakho improved us immeasurably, but everyone around him stepped up their game too, and even the much-maligned Henno had his best spell at the club.

But sure, that's all on Mamadou; and Allardyce, Lee and Margetson were innocent bystanders during training throughout the week and on matchdays.

Think about what you write before you write it, people. Come on.

Of course it is a collective, but like a house, you take away the cement and it falls to a heap of rubble, which is exactly what happened when Sakho wasn't there, it was back to utter garbage again.

No, it isn't all on Mamadou, but when he was in the side, we lost once from 8, without him we lost 8 from 13, Allardcye, Lee and Margetson were the constant in those runs, Sakho wasn't and the contrast is stark.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 01:23 PM
No other leaders on the pitch ?

I think that is a lot of it.

As Ben said, every player seemed to get that little bit better, they had more confidence, they had more faith.

I have no idea what he was like in the dressing room or at the training ground but certainly on the pitch, everything, everyone seemed to be that tiny fraction better. That is all it takes in the PL to go from team losing every week to a side getting results, the margins are quite small.

IMO Sakho into CB, Cabaye into CM and we are a totally different proposition.

GrayP41ace
07-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Ben you cannot deny the stark difference between the form and points gained before he played his first game against Boro and again as soon as he was injured.

4pts in 8 games before 0.5pts/game
19pts in 9 games from them till he was injured (which include Liverpool where he didn't play) 2.1pts/game
3pts in 5 games after his injury - 0.6pts/game

We had almost identical form before he played and after he was injured and significantly different form whilst he was starting for us. We can discuss reasons as to why Liverpool when he didn't play went for us but why was the form with and without him so different?

Yes i think the manager has to shoulder a significant amount of the responsibility for that! Pardew certainly did.

Said better than I did, but spot on.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 01:31 PM
Ben you cannot deny the stark difference between the form and points gained before he played his first game against Boro and again as soon as he was injured.

4pts in 8 games before 0.5pts/game
19pts in 9 games from them till he was injured (which include Liverpool where he didn't play) 2.1pts/game
3pts in 5 games after his injury - 0.6pts/game

We had almost identical form before he played and after he was injured and significantly different form whilst he was starting for us. We can discuss reasons as to why Liverpool when he didn't play went for us but why was the form with and without him so different?

Yes i think the manager has to shoulder a significant amount of the responsibility for that! Pardew certainly did.

Why did you coach Oxted Orient and the REMF for all those years if one lone (and on-loan) centre back can do the job of manager, goalkeeper and all other outfield players?

I'm genuinely amazed you can think last season's turnaround was all down to a single player and nothing to do with the coaching staff, incredible as that player's performances were.

WorthingEagle
07-09-2017, 01:36 PM
Manager identifies weakness, manager signs player, player makes team better, but any success is all down to the player? Hmm.

Sakho and Cabaye may well improve us and help get a few results. But we shouldn't need to rely on those two to not get tonked at home by Huddersfield and Swansea. There should still be a basic structure and understanding established so it doesn't matter who in your squad plays, you still look like a professional football team that's had an entire pre-season to prepare and not an utter shambles.

Lombardo's hair
07-09-2017, 01:41 PM
Why did you coach Oxted Orient and the REMF for all those years if one lone (and on-loan) centre back can do the job of manager, goalkeeper and all other outfield players?

I'm genuinely amazed you can think last season's turnaround was all down to a single player and nothing to do with the coaching staff, incredible as that player's performances were.
I think he made his case fairly well. The performance s were very good with sakho and mostly poor without him. If we had taken sakho at start of last seaon I don't think we would have lost to Swansea or Burnley at least and probably not to chelsea
at home. We lacked an organiser and leader at back. Dann isn't one. Delaney is but is not the player sakho is

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 01:50 PM
Why did you coach Oxted Orient and the REMF for all those years if one lone (and on-loan) centre back can do the job of manager, goalkeeper and all other outfield players?

I'm genuinely amazed you can think last season's turnaround was all down to a single player and nothing to do with the coaching staff, incredible as that player's performances were.

I am not saying that i do not think a coach has an effect. I am questioning how big an effect Sam Allardyce had on Palace last year. Many hail him as saving us from relegation on the back of it. Our performance though actually suggests he did not. That he did not work a spell like it is very clear Pulis did several years ago.

Yes Allardyce got us organised, but i don't think the players still showed any confidence or quality until Sakho was playing.

Take the Hull game as an example. Their CB makes a complete mess, we get an early goal and cruise the match. Had that have been reversed and Kelly taken an air shot and Niasse stolen in and scored, do we think we would have come back to win that game?

Last season and i would say this we seem to be incredibly lacking in confidence, that was not given by Allardyce, it does not appear that FdB can inspire confidence in the team - maybe it is going to take Sakho coming back to do that.

Conversely i think Pardew was able to inspire confidence, but we lacked any organisation under him.

sydnsteve
07-09-2017, 01:59 PM
Whatever the reason, and it is decidedly odd, the Spurs game showed up Sakho's effect and influence in a nutshell. With him there we were looking secure for at least a point, once he was injured we fell apart. It might well be a lack of leaders. Dann and Puncheon clearly don't like being captain, and I can't think of an Andy Gray or Geoff Thomas out there. So let's hope Sakho stays uninjured!

WorthingEagle
07-09-2017, 02:00 PM
Who do you think signed Sakho?

Job number one of a manager is to explore all options to if at all possible bring in players that make your team better. If you manage to sign a player who has such a positive effect on the team that they avoid relegation, how can that be seen as anything other than good management?

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 02:05 PM
Who do you think signed Sakho?

Job number one of a manager is to explore all options to if at all possible bring in players that make your team better. If you manage to sign a player who has such a positive effect on the team that they avoid relegation, how can that be seen as anything other than good management?

FdB believes that is the job of the sporting director. He may have some involvement. The problem with that philosophy which is predominantly a British one is every time you change manager you need a massive squad overhaul.

Many have hailed the success of Southampton where the 'manager' has very little involvement in player recruitment.

I think i recall reading somewhere that Parish got a call whilst at the Vitality stadium asking if we wanted Sakho, he just asked Allardyce yes or no and he said yes. Not sure if anything had gone on beforehand and he was identified by Allardyce specifically, do you?

FdB has not 'chosen' Sakho either.

sylvan eagle
07-09-2017, 02:41 PM
Miss the straight talking sense Sam brought to the club



Will be gutted to see him lay his hat at another club



Parish do what you can to get him back


Is this the same allardyce who walked out on us

bodger
07-09-2017, 03:15 PM
The question is why the likes of Allardyce and Pulis walked so soon after arriving

Pulis had the sniff of a bigger job and did not get it. WBA are a bigger club then us but you can bet if a bigger club tap him up he will go, watch the betting on that one. SA came to us to get over England and rebuild his reputation both left with their stock high and their pockets full.

Ridcully
07-09-2017, 03:16 PM
Is this the same allardyce who walked out on us

Shhhh, people still believe he is a man of his word and has retired.

Penstone Eagle
07-09-2017, 03:38 PM
Shhhh, people still believe he is a man of his word and has retired.

Did he give his word then? Was it to you?

People plan to do things and plans change.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 03:48 PM
Yes Allardyce got us organised, but i don't think the players still showed any confidence or quality until Sakho was playing.

Who gave Sakho his tactical instructions?

Or are you saying that Big Sam and Little Sam just told him to run around a bit, head a ball and make a tackle here and there?

He looked like one of the best defenders in the Premier League in our side, far better than he ever did for Liverpool. Is that because he just suddenly found another level within himself having not played the sport for months, or did quality coaching and tactical instruction perhaps play some part in his brilliance wearing red and blue?

red&blue_moomin
07-09-2017, 04:03 PM
Yes, one defender did his job plus the jobs of nine other outfield players and a goalkeeper for the entirely of half a season.

Sakho improved us immeasurably, but everyone around him stepped up their game too, and even the much-maligned Henno had his best spell at the club.

But sure, that's all on Mamadou; and Allardyce, Lee and Margetson were innocent bystanders during training throughout the week and on matchdays.

Think about what you write before you write it, people. Come on.

Interestingly BFS has said he thinks Mama might be difference actually. On sky he said when sakho came he had something to prove, was constantly talking to the rest of the team, coaching on the pitch and telling them what to do. It meant BFS had to coach the defence less and the players started to play more, the forward players became confident because they weren't concerned about the back of the team conceding and basically played to their potential. In conjunction with the other three signings it all clicked together and the clean sheets started.

Ogilvy
07-09-2017, 04:03 PM
Good luck to Sam in whatever he does next, let's face it most of us didnt want him, especially after the early games, but whatever you say he kept his side of the deal, kept us up, let the players take the plaudits and resigned. He probably will take another job and best of luck to him. We'd be preying for his head if we'd lost 3 on the bounce, or worst had been relegated.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 04:07 PM
Interestingly BFS has said he thinks Mama might be difference actually. On sky he said when sakho came he had something to prove, was constantly talking to the rest of the team, coaching on the pitch and telling them what to do. It meant BFS had to coach the defence less and the players started to play more, the forward players became confident because they weren't concerned about the back of the team conceding and basically played to their potential. In conjunction with the other three signings it all clicked together and the clean sheets started.

Of course he had a massive, positive effect on the dressing room. Never have I disputed that.

I just don't believe you can distill a six-month period of mixed form down to:

*Team* plays well = all hail one player!
*Team* plays badly = coaching staff is shit!

Were that amazing team effort at Chelsea, and home drubbing of Arsenal, really nothing to do with Allardyce and Lee? Really really? Sakho picked the team, got the tactics right, made critical substitutions at critical times? Has no one else watched our other recent attempts to overcome Arsenal at Selhurst in recent years? Even when they've been in seriously poor form they've still dicked us in SE25, until last season.

red&blue_moomin
07-09-2017, 04:26 PM
Of course he had a massive, positive effect on the dressing room. Never have I disputed that.

I just don't believe you can distill a six-month period of mixed form down to:

*Team* plays well = all hail one player!
*Team* plays badly = coaching staff is shit!

Were that amazing team effort at Chelsea, and home drubbing of Arsenal, really nothing to do with Allardyce and Lee? Really really? Sakho picked the team, got the tactics right, made critical substitutions at critical times? Has no one else watched our other recent attempts to overcome Arsenal at Selhurst in recent years? Even when they've been in seriously poor form they've still dicked us in SE25, until last season.

No but we know our defence has been awful for 21 months they make so many errors and stupid decisions regardless of who the manager is. There has to come a point where you accept we have a premiership attack and a championship defence.

Gonzo is rightly pointing out that the ppg and defensive performances only improved with Sakho in there. BFS tactics only actually bore fruit with an international class CB in our backline. When you took him back out results crashed back to being shit again because 4.5 of our defensive unit are just not good enough at this level. They've had five seasons they've not really improved bar a few months under Pulis.

I'm actually happy we have seven cbs and tfm is a good rb because it means Ward, Kelly, and Damo and maybe even Dann will all play a lot less.

Eaglesmad123
07-09-2017, 04:42 PM
Pulis had the sniff of a bigger job and did not get it. WBA are a bigger club then us but you can bet if a bigger club tap him up he will go, watch the betting on that one. SA came to us to get over England and rebuild his reputation both left with their stock high and their pockets full.

Nonsense he was not in the frame for any job. He left cause of a major fall out with Parish.

Optimistic Kev
07-09-2017, 04:52 PM
Nonsense he was not in the frame for any job. He left cause of a major fall out with Parish.


Sorry but you're talking nonsense. It is now well known that Pulis was lined up for West Ham (ironically to replace Allardyce). Unfortunately for Pulis they made a decent start and the job went away.

Parish in very good faith paid Pulis a bonus he was due early so Pulis could complete on a land deal (which was fictitious and proven in court).

There was no fall out only Pulis being duplicitous which he eventually got successfully sued for.

Zulu84
07-09-2017, 04:58 PM
Sorry but you're talking nonsense. It is now well known that Pulis was lined up for West Ham (ironically to replace Allardyce). Unfortunately for Pulis they made a decent start and the job went away.

Parish in very good faith paid Pulis a bonus he was due early so Pulis could complete on a land deal (which was fictitious and proven in court).

There was no fall out only Pulis being duplicitous which he eventually got successfully sued for.

Exactly, this has been proven in court, didn't realize people still bought into the BS that Pulis spouted

GorBlimey
07-09-2017, 05:48 PM
F*ck off you bollock talking drip.

Ha ha ha!

Touched a raw nerve eh?

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 05:52 PM
The stats also show the main factor in us staying up was a period of 8 games coinciding with Sakho playing. Apart from that we were relegation fodder under him.


Yep, Sakho changed everything. BFS didn't have a clue before Sakho came in.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 05:59 PM
Why did you coach Oxted Orient and the REMF for all those years if one lone (and on-loan) centre back can do the job of manager, goalkeeper and all other outfield players?

I'm genuinely amazed you can think last season's turnaround was all down to a single player and nothing to do with the coaching staff, incredible as that player's performances were.

Sakho stopped a certain goal in the victory against Boro. Would have meant two points dropped.

A goaline clearance against Watford when 1-0 up.

Prevented a Hennessey mistake up at the Hawthornes to ensure we won.

On just those 3 examples he got us 6 extra points. Without him they were all certain goals.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:01 PM
Yep, Sakho changed everything. BFS didn't have a clue before Sakho came in.

What utter nonsense. Just accept Sam did a great job.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:05 PM
Sakho stopped a certain goal in the victory against Boro. Would have meant two points dropped.

A goaline clearance against Watford when 1-0 up.

Prevented a Hennessey mistake up at the Hawthornes to ensure we won.

On just those 3 examples he got us 6 extra points. Without him they were all certain goals.

Yup.

But why does that mean Sam deserves no credit for those results? And who's to say he wouldn't have made positive tactical changes to go on to win those games anyway, even if the opposition had equalised?

You're picking out individual moments in microcosm rather than looking at the bigger picture of full 90-minute games. What about the other 55-60 minutes when the ball was in play outside of those few seconds you've pinpointed? Our shape, our disclipline, our off-the-ball movement? Did Sakho orchestrate all that, for every player, at all times, too?

Reminder: I'm not saying Sakho doesn't deserve credit for us staying up. He does. Masses of it. Here's the critical part some people are blanking, deliberately or otherwise: Allardyce and Lee deserve credit too.

GorBlimey
07-09-2017, 06:06 PM
What utter nonsense. Just accept Sam did a great job.

Explain the rubbish results before Sakho and the rubbish results after Sakho.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who saved us.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:11 PM
Yup.

But why does that mean Sam deserves no credit for those results? And who's to say he wouldn't have made positive tactical changes to go on to win those games anyway, even if the opposition had equalised?

You're picking out individual moments in microcosm rather than looking at the bigger picture of full 90-minute games. What about the other 55-60 minutes when the ball was in play outside of those few seconds you've pinpointed? Our shape, our disclipline, our off-the-ball movement? Did Sakho orchestrate all that, for every player, at all times, too?

Reminder: I'm not saying Sakho doesn't deserve credit for us staying up. He does. Masses of it. Here's the critical part some people are blanking, deliberately or otherwise: Allardyce and Lee deserve credit too.

They deserve credit, but it can't be ignored that from the start of his reign to when Sakho came in we were dreadful. Then we were very good while Sakho was in the team, then we went back to playing like we did before Sakho came in.

I just don't think it was a coincidence. Sakho's overall presence seemed to raise every single player's game. He was as important as BFS.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:11 PM
Explain the rubbish results before Sakho and the rubbish results after Sakho.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who saved us.

Yeah, it's a one man team isn't it? Seriously, are you deliberately being argumentative?

Sam identified the weaknesses in the squad and signed quality players: he sorted the left back problem, he sorted the lack of a defensive midfielder, and he signed Sakho who was a huge part in us staying up. But he wasn't the only factor. Sorting the left back and defensive midfield shortcomings were also instrumental.

Just because you don't like Allardyce doesn't make any of this less true. Embarrassing.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:13 PM
What utter nonsense. Just accept Sam did a great job.

Perhaps you should look at the fixtures and results from last season and then tell me if it's utter nonsense that BFS only got it right when Sakho came in.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:14 PM
Just because you don't like Allardyce doesn't make any of this less true. Embarrassing.

Whether he likes BFS or not I have no idea but we only improved when Sakho came in.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:20 PM
Yep, that imperious defensive performance from Martin Kelly and James Tomkins at Anfield occurred because... one of them swapped skins with Sakho before the game? He was controlling both using a complex system of mirrors, electronics and specially tailored DualShock 4s? Hypnotisation of the entire Liverpool dressing room beforehand?

Deliberately ridiculous theories. Yet none of them as ridiculous as the notion that Sam Allardyce had nothing to do with us staying up.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:22 PM
Perhaps you should look at the fixtures and results from last season and then tell me if it's utter nonsense that BFS only got it right when Sakho came in.

Football is not a one man game. There were many factors involved in our revival and Sakho was a big one but you also need to factor in:

- Luka
- having two left backs - both Schlupp and PvA got injured so having two options was invaluable
- Townsend rejuvenated
- Allardyce's work on the defence

All of these are important and Sam always said it would take till march to sort the team out. And that's what happened.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:22 PM
Yep, that imperious defensive performance from Martin Kelly and James Tomkins at Anfield occurred because... one of them swapped skins with Sakho before the game? He was controlling both using a complex system of mirrors, electronics and specially tailored DualShock 4s? Hypnotisation of the entire Liverpool dressing room beforehand?

Deliberately ridiculous theories. Yet none of them as ridiculous as the notion that Sam Allardyce had nothing to do with us staying up.

Absolutely spot on.

cpfcfan1
07-09-2017, 06:23 PM
I think the results towards the end were a matter of complacency, us thinking job done especially after the Liverpool and arsenal games

Sam did a great job

GorBlimey
07-09-2017, 06:23 PM
Yeah, it's a one man team isn't it? Seriously, are you deliberately being argumentative?

Sam identified the weaknesses in the squad and signed quality players: he sorted the left back problem, he sorted the lack of a defensive midfielder, and he signed Sakho who was a huge part in us staying up. But he wasn't the only factor. Sorting the left back and defensive midfield shortcomings were also instrumental.

Just because you don't like Allardyce doesn't make any of this less true. Embarrassing.

Parish signed Sakho - he was on the radar before BFS.

Your hero-worship of BFS is the main embarrassment.

He was here, he collected his bonus then pissed off two years earlier than he was contracted so he could "spend more time with his family".

He's no hero in my book and he could end up being a Dowie/Pulis type villain if he ever takes another management job.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:24 PM
Whether he likes BFS or not I have no idea but we only improved when Sakho came in.

Funny that he would improve the team, what with him being better than our existing crop of centre backs.

Also funny we would miss him after getting injured, what with him being better than our existing crop of centre backs.

This is actually quite mind-numbing.

Ignoring GorBlimey as he's clearly trolling for his own amusement. The worrying part is I'm not sure other posters on this thread are.

meee
07-09-2017, 06:26 PM
Yep, that imperious defensive performance from Martin Kelly and James Tomkins at Anfield occurred because... one of them swapped skins with Sakho before the game? He was controlling both using a complex system of mirrors, electronics and specially tailored DualShock 4s? Hypnotisation of the entire Liverpool dressing room beforehand?

Deliberately ridiculous theories. Yet none of them as ridiculous as the notion that Sam Allardyce had nothing to do with us staying up.

So all the evidence that has been presented to you showing that Sakho was the main reason our form dramatically improved is disproved because you picked the one game we won without him?

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:31 PM
Ok Ben, simple yes/no question.

If we had not had Sakho, so the rest of the squad would have played those 8 games. Do you think we would have stayed up?

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:31 PM
It's not a one man team ffs!

meee
07-09-2017, 06:33 PM
It's not a one man team ffs!

You are right.It would be ridiculously over simplistic to say we stayed up because of Sakho.But the stats GreatGonzo posted tell a very clear story.Without Sakho,our form was the same,if not slightly worse than before the new year.With Sakho we got more than 2 points per game as an average.If you can provide stats like that for the other reasons you mentioned then you could argue they were equally important.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:34 PM
Funny that he would improve the team, what with him being better than our existing crop of centre backs.

Also funny we would miss him after getting injured, what with him being better than our existing crop of centre backs.

This is actually quite mind-numbing.

Ignoring GorBlimey as he's clearly trolling for his own amusement. The worrying part is I'm not sure other posters on this thread are.

Perhaps it's your lack of footballing knowledge or your love of BFS which blinkers you, but I find it incredible that you cannot see that Sakho's influence was the main reason we went on that run which eventually gave us security despite us doing our best to mess it all up once Sakho was injured.

Here's a question; do you think without Sakho BFS would have kept us up?

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:36 PM
Ok Ben, simple yes/no question.

If we had not had Sakho, so the rest of the squad would have played those 8 games. Do you think we would have stayed up?

Ah, just what I posted without knowing you already had.

It's incredible that he cannot see the impact Sakho had and basically saved BFS from relegation. Before Sakho, he showed no signs of knowing how to put things right.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:39 PM
Ok Ben, simple yes/no question.

If we had not had Sakho, so the rest of the squad would have played those 8 games. Do you think we would have stayed up?

Yes. Categorically. Took time but Allardyce transformed the club's mentality and Lee is the most thorough first-team coach we've had in the Parish era. (Which is why rumours of de Boer casting him aside in preference to Trustfull are so concerning.)

We smashed Arsenal and defeated Chelsea and Liverpool FFS! Go back and watch the games. Which of the seven goals in those matches directly involved Sakho? Was he drilling every player on how to stop the opposition's many multi-million pound attackers in the build up to those games? Leading the fitness training which kept us in games for 94 minutes, rather than 65 under Pardew? How far do we have to take this for you to develop even a semblance of a clue?

Payroll Legend
07-09-2017, 06:41 PM
Perhaps you should look at the fixtures and results from last season and then tell me if it's utter nonsense that BFS only got it right when Sakho came in.

Who he bought.

bodger
07-09-2017, 06:41 PM
Yep, that imperious defensive performance from Martin Kelly and James Tomkins at Anfield occurred because... one of them swapped skins with Sakho before the game? He was controlling both using a complex system of mirrors, electronics and specially tailored DualShock 4s? Hypnotisation of the entire Liverpool dressing room beforehand?

Deliberately ridiculous theories. Yet none of them as ridiculous as the notion that Sam Allardyce had nothing to do with us staying up.

So that explains why Coutinho stayed on his feet had he gone down we were in trouble. SA did a great job no doubt but imo without Sakho we would have gone down top class players change teams Liverpool without Suarez being a good example.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:42 PM
BFS and his tactics, identifying for example Arsenal leave huge gaps behind the full backs played a part. Zaha running at player causing mayhem and scoring and assisting played a part. Benteke and his goals played a part however all of those were existent for 21 games.

The single biggest factor and it is clear from the results was Sakho and without him we would have been relegated Big Sam or not. Relegated.

If you want controversial how about Pardew was better than Sam? I was more confident going into that Watford game under Pardew than i was under Sam and a win would have been 18 points from the first half of the season. Same in the 2nd half of the season and we would have stayed up. Add £40m of players to that pardew squad, including the quality CB we obviously needed and a LB cos we didn't have one and i think it unlikely we would not have improved from the 1st half of the season.

IMO Sam did not do a great job, he kept us up but nothing special but i know i am probably in the minority with that opinion.

Coastal Palace
07-09-2017, 06:43 PM
Ok Ben, simple yes/no question.

If we had not had Sakho, so the rest of the squad would have played those 8 games. Do you think we would have stayed up?

Yes.
As good as Sakho is, Allardyce was always going to get us out of the mess Pardew left us in.
Sakho or no Sakho.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:44 PM
So that explains why Coutinho stayed on his feet had he gone down we were in trouble. SA did a great job no doubt but imo without Sakho we would have gone down top class players change teams Liverpool without Suarez being a good example.

Or excused Liverpool who hit 13 attempts off-target that day.

Benzhiyi
07-09-2017, 06:44 PM
Perhaps it's your lack of footballing knowledge...

:D :D :D :D

Ah, that chestnut.

"I've lost the argument comprehensively so rather than respond to logic I'll call into question my opponent's footballing knowledge."

Very drole. Game, set, match. Enjoy your evening. :love:

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:45 PM
You are right.It would be ridiculously over simplistic to say we stayed up because of Sakho.But the stats GreatGonzo posted tell a very clear story.Without Sakho,our form was the same,if not slightly worse than before the new year.With Sakho we got more than 2 points per game as an average.If you can provide stats like that for the other reasons you mentioned then you could argue they were equally important.

Of course I could. Look at the performance of the team with Luka and either PvA or Schlupp in.

No way in football can you say a defender in particular was the sole factor responsible for a side winning. Messi or Ronaldo perhaps but even that is too simplistic.

Lots of factors came together to turn round our performances and Sakho was one of the key ones but not the only one.

WorthingEagle
07-09-2017, 06:45 PM
Ah, just what I posted without knowing you already had.

It's incredible that he cannot see the impact Sakho had and basically saved BFS from relegation. Before Sakho, he showed no signs of knowing how to put things right.

Showed no sign of knowing how to put things right? I suppose his record of putting together a really good side at Bolton, and comfortably keeping them, West Ham, Sunderland and Newcastle in the Premier League counts for nothing? Suddenly he comes to Palace and he's got no clue how to shape a competent Premier League side.

I suppose Alex Ferguson would have been a shit manager too if it wasn't for Giggs, Beckham, Butt, Scholes and the Nevilles coming through the academy. Just dumb luck, eh?

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 06:47 PM
BFS and his tactics, identifying for example Arsenal leave huge gaps behind the full backs played a part. Zaha running at player causing mayhem and scoring and assisting played a part. Benteke and his goals played a part however all of those were existent for 21 games.

The single biggest factor and it is clear from the results was Sakho and without him we would have been relegated Big Sam or not. Relegated.

If you want controversial how about Pardew was better than Sam? I was more confident going into that Watford game under Pardew than i was under Sam and a win would have been 18 points from the first half of the season. Same in the 2nd half of the season and we would have stayed up. Add £40m of players to that pardew squad, including the quality CB we obviously needed and a LB cos we didn't have one and i think it unlikely we would not have improved from the 1st half of the season.

IMO Sam did not do a great job, he kept us up but nothing special but i know i am probably in the minority with that opinion.

I find that view utterly baffling.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:49 PM
:D :D :D :D

Ah, that chestnut.

"I've lost the argument comprehensively so rather than respond to logic I'll call into question my opponent's footballing knowledge."

Very drole. Game, set, match. Enjoy your evening. :love:

Ben i won't question your footballing knowledge, i also won't suggest you need to get a semblance of a clue.

I respect your right to have the opinion you do, i just disagree with it. If we all agreed about everything life would be very boring and we live in a society when we tolerate each others differing opinions.

Ultimately we all want the same thing - for Palace to be as successful as possible, its reasonable we have differing ideas on how that is achieved.

Eaglesmad123
07-09-2017, 06:51 PM
Exactly, this has been proven in court, didn't realize people still bought into the BS that Pulis spouted

Dosnt explain why he wanted out. How long has he been at West Brom now?

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:55 PM
Showed no sign of knowing how to put things right? I suppose his record of putting together a really good side at Bolton, and comfortably keeping them, West Ham, Sunderland and Newcastle in the Premier League counts for nothing? Suddenly he comes to Palace and he's got no clue how to shape a competent Premier League side.

I suppose Alex Ferguson would have been a shit manager too if it wasn't for Giggs, Beckham, Butt, Scholes and the Nevilles coming through the academy. Just dumb luck, eh?

What's the relevance of that nonsense you've just typed?

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:56 PM
Of course I could. Look at the performance of the team with Luka and either PvA or Schlupp in.

No way in football can you say a defender in particular was the sole factor responsible for a side winning. Messi or Ronaldo perhaps but even that is too simplistic.

Lots of factors came together to turn round our performances and Sakho was one of the key ones but not the only one.

Luka Without 4 points from 7 games, with 22 from 14. Positive effect, but nowhere near the same as Sakho

PVA Without 17 points from 13 games, with 9 points from 8, no discernable difference

If you look at the results with and without any individual player under Sam there will be some that show a positive effect and some a negative but no-one comes anywhere close to Sakho in that.

CPFC.1990
07-09-2017, 06:56 PM
:D :D :D :D

Ah, that chestnut.

"I've lost the argument comprehensively so rather than respond to logic I'll call into question my opponent's footballing knowledge."

Very drole. Game, set, match. Enjoy your evening. :love:

:D

Oh, the irony.

Please read your post #141. Pretty much does exactly what you've just said I did.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 06:57 PM
I find that view utterly baffling.

I am not surprised judging by your posts, and just as i cannot prove it right, so it cannot be proved wrong. Such is life and the fun and games of following a football club.

Stavros 69
07-09-2017, 07:24 PM
It's not a one man team ffs!

And the first thing BFS said was all 4 signings had a brilliant impact and it was the whole teams lift in confidence that turned us around.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 07:28 PM
I am not surprised judging by your posts, and just as i cannot prove it right, so it cannot be proved wrong. Such is life and the fun and games of following a football club.

But you're analysis misses a fundamental point - it's not a one man game. How can one player be the most decisive factor when there are 10 others on the pitch? You could perhaps make the case if it was a striker like Messi or Ronaldo but we're talking about a defender.

And have you taken into account the teams we played during this period - i.e. in terms of how good the oppo were?

You can't prove it either way. The truth of the matter is that Sam identified the weaknesses and brought in four good players who all made a difference - with Sakho making more difference than most. But we won at Liverpool without him which shows the value of the other players such as Luka especially.

I just don't get this slagging off of and minimising of what Sam obviously achieved. People have agendas against him and I think it's sad.

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 07:30 PM
And the first thing BFS said was all 4 signings had a brilliant impact and it was the whole teams lift in confidence that turned us around.

Absolutely.

Eaglesfan1
07-09-2017, 07:36 PM
Is anyone on this thread claiming that Allardyce didn't have a role in keeping us up? I haven't actually seen that be said.

However it's 100% fair to say that he might not have been able to keep us up without Sakho in the team. The first game after Sakho signed was a 0-4 defeat to Sunderland after all (Sakho an unused sub).

bodger
07-09-2017, 07:39 PM
Dosnt explain why he wanted out. How long has he been at West Brom now?

If the WHU job comes up we will see.

Stavros 69
07-09-2017, 08:34 PM
Is anyone on this thread claiming that Allardyce didn't have a role in keeping us up? I haven't actually seen that be said.

However it's 100% fair to say that he might not have been able to keep us up without Sakho in the team. The first game after Sakho signed was a 0-4 defeat to Sunderland after all (Sakho an unused sub).

I've erased that game from my memory.

Hong Kong Eagle
07-09-2017, 11:48 PM
BFS must have known fully well what this season was going to be. We were dreadful in his last few games and that form continues. At this stage of his career I seriously doubt he wanted another Sunderland.

This

We stayed up under BFS but were dreadful last few games, which Sakho missed through injury.

Results of other strugglers helped a great deal

danpalace07
08-09-2017, 12:50 AM
Give it up

You and Gor just can't bare the thought that he actually saved us. You would rather he had failed and we had gone down

Pathetic stuff

Makes for some very funny posts on here tbf

up the Big Sam, loved having him here

red&blue_moomin
08-09-2017, 01:27 AM
But you're analysis misses a fundamental point - it's not a one man game. How can one player be the most decisive factor when there are 10 others on the pitch? You could perhaps make the case if it was a striker like Messi or Ronaldo but we're talking about a defender.

And have you taken into account the teams we played during this period - i.e. in terms of how good the oppo were?

You can't prove it either way. The truth of the matter is that Sam identified the weaknesses and brought in four good players who all made a difference - with Sakho making more difference than most. But we won at Liverpool without him which shows the value of the other players such as Luka especially.

I just don't get this slagging off of and minimising of what Sam obviously achieved. People have agendas against him and I think it's sad.

When our defence is goppingly shite. The last 21 months have been like watching a laurel and Hardy skit they are absolutely bollocks in the main. Look BFS has said as much on TV comparing the team without Sakho and with him. We concede goals because we drop back and allow the opposition to get shots off. Sakho made that backline step up literally and he blocked or cut off several certain goals. Hennesey looked better because Sakho cut off more shots. Even then he made several clangers that would on another day have seen us concede.

Worksop Palace
08-09-2017, 06:04 AM
Yep, Sakho changed everything. BFS didn't have a clue before Sakho came in.

Utter shite

But, let's pretend you are correct and indeed it was Sakho who saved us from relegation. I'll ask one simple question which should really put the whole matter to bed.

Who was it that identified that we needed a quality centre back, pursued and landed said centre back and tactically changed the team to accommodate said centre back. The centre back that you claim saved us from relegation.

Only need one name from you.

foresthillbilly
08-09-2017, 06:26 AM
you
your
you're

may I refer you to post #b0II0x

sorry, boredom has kicked-in

cpfc4evandeva
08-09-2017, 06:37 AM
I've posted on here that I'm not a big fan of Allardyce personally - he's cut from the same cloth as Harry Redknapp... Let's leave it there.

But as a manager? Come on. He was brilliant for us. It took a little bit of time for his ideas to get through, but when they did we were away.

The best managers we've had in the last 15 years have been him and Pulis, no question.

dufski13
08-09-2017, 06:39 AM
Jesus, lot of pedants on this thread. Surely it is clear that without Sakho's presence we would have gone down last season? But it also seems clear that BFS signed Sakho. Would Sakho have come if we'd still had Pardew? No idea. Would Pardew have signed the 2 left backs & Luka? Again no idea. But together all 4 signings contributed to us staying up, as did Tomkins with improved form playing alongside Sakho etc etc. I mean like or dislike BFS it strikes me you can't have it both ways.
I guess the argument really is if the manager makes any difference, ever. Well you can't argue BFS had no effect, & at the same time argue Pardew was incompetent or that we need to sack FdB in my opinion.

cpfc4evandeva
08-09-2017, 06:47 AM
Simply then - Sakho added to the team in January but with Pardew being kept on instead of sacked in December...

Would we have stayed up?

I'm saying absolutely not. Pardew was done by that point and should have been sacked sooner. The Swansea game should have been the end imo.

Windsor_Eagle
08-09-2017, 07:02 AM
I think if we can all now say (with the benefit of hindsight) that it took the players 8 or so games to get to grips with SA's playing style, then FdB at least needs the same amount of competitive games IMO. We don't know yet exactly what our players are capable of after some time amalgamating to the system - particularly now that we have added quality in three areas (TFM, Sakho and RLC) and have Cabaye and McArthur back to fitness and Wilf, hopefully, not far behind.

gamesmeister
08-09-2017, 07:10 AM
Dosnt explain why he wanted out. How long has he been at West Brom now?

Only because he has a few bills to pay now

SA Eagle
08-09-2017, 07:22 AM
Simply then - Sakho added to the team in January but with Pardew being kept on instead of sacked in December...

Would we have stayed up?

I'm saying absolutely not. Pardew was done by that point and should have been sacked sooner. The Swansea game should have been the end imo.

I think if Pardew had signed Sakho, a LB and a specilist DCM we could well have stayed up (it of course can't be proved). The question to be asked is whether he would have signed all three of those, of that I would be less certain.

Bungalow
08-09-2017, 07:24 AM
I think I am right in saying that he is contractually bound to repay his bonus for keeping us up if he takes another managers job in the next 2 years (ie prior to when his contract with us would have ended).

Palacebear
08-09-2017, 07:55 AM
I've posted on here that I'm not a big fan of Allardyce personally - he's cut from the same cloth as Harry Redknapp... Let's leave it there.

But as a manager? Come on. He was brilliant for us. It took a little bit of time for his ideas to get through, but when they did we were away.

The best managers we've had in the last 15 years have been him and Pulis, no question.


My sentiments exactly.

Wycombe Eagle#2
08-09-2017, 08:20 AM
I think I am right in saying that he is contractually bound to repay his bonus for keeping us up if he takes another managers job in the next 2 years (ie prior to when his contract with us would have ended).

I'm pretty sure if he signs for another club Palace are due the 2 year compensation which I imagine is a tidy sum.if someone wants him they'll have to cough up.

GreatGonzo
08-09-2017, 08:22 AM
I think if Pardew had signed Sakho, a LB and a specilist DCM we could well have stayed up (it of course can't be proved). The question to be asked is whether he would have signed all three of those, of that I would be less certain.

Indeed.

Pardew had a greater points total than Sam did without Sakho.

Mr Palace
08-09-2017, 08:31 AM
Indeed.

Pardew had a greater points total than Sam did without Sakho.

That's pretty meaningless. Getting sick of this anti Allardyce sentiment. Not pointing to you specifically but so many people trying to undermine what was a brilliant rescue act by him.

Mr Palace
08-09-2017, 08:32 AM
Pardew would also not have signed a defensive midfielder for sure - he let Jedi go after all - and Luka was a huge part in us staying up too.

Kirby
08-09-2017, 08:35 AM
When Pardew left we were heading in the wrong direction, on and off the pitch.

When Allardyce left we were heading in the right direction, on and off the pitch.

As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

cpfc4evandeva
08-09-2017, 08:43 AM
I think if we can all now say (with the benefit of hindsight) that it took the players 8 or so games to get to grips with SA's playing style, then FdB at least needs the same amount of competitive games IMO. We don't know yet exactly what our players are capable of after some time amalgamating to the system - particularly now that we have added quality in three areas (TFM, Sakho and RLC) and have Cabaye and McArthur back to fitness and Wilf, hopefully, not far behind.

I sort of agree but there are big problems.

Ward is not, and never will be, a wing-back. He has absolutely zero pace and in all honesty, probably isn't even good enough as just a very defensive full back any more.

Zaha should be on the wing. It's where he is most effective - not as an inside forward/second striker. He'll still be good there (he's Wifried Zaha) but not as good as he could be.

No matter how hard you try to change them, I don't think Dann, Tomkins or Kelly will ever be comfortable enough with the ball at their feet for the style that de Boer wants to implement. Especially Dann and Tomkins, who are getting on a little.

I feel sorry for de Boer as he's been handicapped by a poor transfer window. But unless he changes things in the next few games, I don't really see the point in carrying on. Give him 10 games, 20 games, a full season - Ward isn't a wing back, Zaha will not be as effective playing inside, and our central defenders are not composed enough for this to work.

I really hope I'm wrong :D

Martin H
08-09-2017, 08:44 AM
Pardew would also not have signed a defensive midfielder for sure - he let Jedi go after all - and Luka was a huge part in us staying up too.

He/SP did try to sign McCarthy at Everton as DM but it all fell thru in the dying minutes due to Sissoko.

Jason
08-09-2017, 08:45 AM
When Pardew left we were heading in the wrong direction, on and off the pitch.

When Allardyce left we were heading in the right direction, on and off the pitch.

As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

I don't think anyone can really argue with that, which in turn perhaps says something about the type of character that is needed in the job these days. To put it another way, as a human being Holloway always seemed a class above any manager we've had since 2010, but he was clearly not suited to being a Premier league manager.

It seems as though you need to be a bit of an ass to succeed as a Premier manager at a club like ours, which is not a good reflection on the game imho

Windsor_Eagle
08-09-2017, 09:33 AM
I sort of agree but there are big problems.

Ward is not, and never will be, a wing-back. He has absolutely zero pace and in all honesty, probably isn't even good enough as just a very defensive full back any more.

Zaha should be on the wing. It's where he is most effective - not as an inside forward/second striker. He'll still be good there (he's Wifried Zaha) but not as good as he could be.

No matter how hard you try to change them, I don't think Dann, Tomkins or Kelly will ever be comfortable enough with the ball at their feet for the style that de Boer wants to implement. Especially Dann and Tomkins, who are getting on a little.

I feel sorry for de Boer as he's been handicapped by a poor transfer window. But unless he changes things in the next few games, I don't really see the point in carrying on. Give him 10 games, 20 games, a full season - Ward isn't a wing back, Zaha will not be as effective playing inside, and our central defenders are not composed enough for this to work.

I really hope I'm wrong :D

I don't think FdB will be able to survive if he plays that 3 CB and 2 WB formation all season. However, he may be able to make it work for certain games where we need to break down stubborn opponents (when 3-4-3 is correctly deployed it is effective).

With a fit squad he could play the following in a 3-4-3

Henno

Tomkins - Dann - Sakho

TFM ----------------------------Schlupp

RLC - Cabaye / Luka

Townsend - Benteke - Zaha

That is very decent.

In other matches where teams are just better than us on the ball:

Henno

TFM - Dann - Sakho - PvA

Luka

RLC - Cabaye

Townsend - Benteke - Zaha

Thefunkymonk
08-09-2017, 09:34 AM
Have I just read the people think Pardew was better than SA



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

**** me.. this place has well and truely gone mental

kolinkins
08-09-2017, 09:37 AM
Any time Sam had more than 4 days between games, we won. He prepped us, drilled us and we won (apart from MU). Sakho was part of that, sure. But not the only part

And who wanted him here? Who waited to give him a debut and timed his introduction into the team? Who built the defence around him?

The nonsensical nature of some of the comments on this thread are baffling. With the exception of Gonzo. I expect nothing different from him

WLYWLYAWYPWF
08-09-2017, 09:38 AM
It seems as though you need to be a bit of an ass to succeed as a Premier manager at a club like ours, which is not a good reflection on the game imho

You couldn't get a bigger fecking ass then Pardew.

JackTheBiscuit
08-09-2017, 09:43 AM
Have I just read the people think Pardew was better than SA



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

**** me.. this place has well and truely gone mental

I know - if FDB was sacked Monday and theoretically both Pardew & Sam were in the running for the job, unbelievably there would still be some that wanted Pardew in preference.

whereEaglesFly
08-09-2017, 10:20 AM
I know - if FDB was sacked Monday and theoretically both Pardew & Sam were in the running for the job, unbelievably there would still be some that wanted Pardew in preference.

To be fair Pardew came in with a worse team and did a lot better than Allardyce and kept it going for a good year.

Harry Holmesdale
08-09-2017, 10:28 AM
When Pardew left we were heading in the wrong direction, on and off the pitch.

When Allardyce left we were heading in the right direction, on and off the pitch.

As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

...and both walked after about 6 months.. yet haven't done similar (Pulis at Gills years ago and Allardyce for England whilst at Sunderland) before or since, such a shame

waddoneagle
08-09-2017, 10:38 AM
When Pardew left we were heading in the wrong direction, on and off the pitch.

When Allardyce left we were heading in the right direction, on and off the pitch.

As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

Sad to say i know, But i agree with this

weltklasse
08-09-2017, 10:43 AM
As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

for the short time he was here Bruce was excellent

smileysmith
08-09-2017, 11:03 AM
I just wish Sam hadn't pretended to be retiring.

Otherwise, best manager for a very long time.

Kirby
08-09-2017, 11:04 AM
for the short time he was here Bruce was excellent

He was, but as you say it was for a (very) short period and in the division below.

CPFC.1990
08-09-2017, 11:05 AM
When Pardew left we were heading in the wrong direction, on and off the pitch.

When Allardyce left we were heading in the right direction, on and off the pitch.

As others have said, BFS and Pulis have been our two best managers since Coppell, no matter what you think of their individual characters.

I think Dowie 03/04 was possibly a greater achievement than either. Especially after we looked relegation certs when he took over.

Pulis was a tactical genius. A very, very clever manager.

Pardew took us from certs for relegation to a great league position and a Cup Final.

BFS having produced some of the worst football I have seen in years kept us up with some very astute signings in Sakho and Luka.

Owngoal
08-09-2017, 11:11 AM
I think Dowie 03/04 was possibly a greater achievement than either. Especially after we looked relegation certs when he took over.

Pulis was a tactical genius. A very, very clever manager.

Pardew took us from certs for relegation to a great league position and a Cup Final.

BFS having produced some of the worst football I have seen in years kept us up with some very astute signings in Sakho and Luka.

Our best managers have been for short impact and as you have said that included Pardew, who had a brilliant first year. Really hoped that FDB was going to follow that but despite his pedigree he seems to have misjudged what he can get out of our group of players. We need a long term stability manager, who probably would have been Dyche, especially if he had come with his keeper Heaton

Martin H
08-09-2017, 11:27 AM
I just wish Sam hadn't pretended to be retiring.

Otherwise, best manager for a very long time.

We won't know for sure but I think he has retired from Premier League Management. Listening to what he has said now in numerous interviews I just think he is making a sensible decision. He has somehow slipped into a super escape artist role. This is odd because this only really happened as he joined Sunderland and before that he had largely been at low to mid-table clubs. But the title was in vogue. His year at Blackburn was a turnaround to some extent. This reputation seems to rule him out of top jobs now and with the stresses of the escape artist being so extreme and demands so immediate (e.g. 3 matches it seems) it is potentially a 'killer' and certainly all consuming (of your life).

If out of the blue a top tier club like Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal or Liverpool offered him a job then he might reconsider because he has always wanted to be at one of those clubs but we all know that isn't going to happen.

I wish he had instead embraced the chance with us to build something with us but I have to assume he knew that we wouldn't refresh the squad (it's unbelievable that we have bought just 2 players).

Mictor Voses
08-09-2017, 11:37 AM
for the short time he was here Bruce was excellent

We played the best football I've ever seen us play under Bruce for that short period, all with three back coincidentally. I've only been going since 1993 so can't comment on the team of the 80's.

igl
08-09-2017, 11:57 AM
Ok Ben, simple yes/no question.

If we had not had Sakho, so the rest of the squad would have played those 8 games. Do you think we would have stayed up?


You previously wrote:

Undoubtedly saved us from relegation?

For that to be the case you have to know that under Pardew we would have been relegated and some doubt that would have happened and certainly no-one can know that for sure! The stats also show the main factor in us staying up was a period of 8 games coinciding with Sakho playing. Apart from that we were relegation fodder under him.

You can't have it both ways. In the top question you are insinuating we wouldn't have stayed up, but in the bottom quote you state that no one could know anything for sure!!
People disagree, I'm in the camp that SA did a great job for us and would have continued to do so if he had stayed... obviously there are many that believe that Sakho (a player that SA loaned in himself) saved us on his own and SA deserves no credit at all! Opinions are what make for a forum!

Eaglesfan1
08-09-2017, 12:39 PM
The ironic thing about the Pardew v Allardyce debate is that had Pardew walked away in summer 2015 people would probably be calling him one of our best ever managers etc

Thefunkymonk
08-09-2017, 12:46 PM
The ironic thing about the Pardew v Allardyce debate is that had Pardew walked away in summer 2015 people would probably be calling him one of our best ever managers etc

What after 5 months in charge?

He should of been sacked after cup final.

Bloke spent £90m.. signed sako Mutch etc... andnwent on one of our worst runs in history... he's a blagger. Tactically inept. Shouldn't even be considered in the same conversation as alladyce when it comes to management.

Martin H
08-09-2017, 02:44 PM
What after 5 months in charge?

He should of been sacked after cup final.

Bloke spent £90m.. signed sako Mutch etc... andnwent on one of our worst runs in history... he's a blagger. Tactically inept. Shouldn't even be considered in the same conversation as alladyce when it comes to management.

That was 2016. Oops

Eaglesfan1
08-09-2017, 03:32 PM
What after 5 months in charge?

He should of been sacked after cup final.

Bloke spent £90m.. signed sako Mutch etc... andnwent on one of our worst runs in history... he's a blagger. Tactically inept. Shouldn't even be considered in the same conversation as alladyce when it comes to management.
Same period that Allardyce was in charge, and a lot of users on here are saying he was one of the best.

I don't think Allardyce would've then had an entire year of dreadful form but we'll never know for sure, and if you can't see the point I'm making you're being deliberately obtuse.

Bryan
08-09-2017, 05:16 PM
Allardyce's long term record as a manager speaks for itself in terms of results, money spent v league position and developing players. However way you look at it he is an excellent manager even if you compare him to the best foreign managers. Criminally underrated and always has been.

JackTheBiscuit
08-09-2017, 05:37 PM
Allardyce's long term record as a manager speaks for itself in terms of results, money spent v league position and developing players. However way you look at it he is an excellent manager even if you compare him to the best foreign managers. Criminally underrated and always has been.

Indeed consistently done it at the top level over 15 years+ compared to Pardew's boom and bust record

GreatGonzo
08-09-2017, 05:47 PM
That's pretty meaningless. Getting sick of this anti Allardyce sentiment. Not pointing to you specifically but so many people trying to undermine what was a brilliant rescue act by him.

Is that fact or your opinion?