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Woosie
07-09-2017, 04:13 PM
My exclusive: Liverpool want U18 forward Joseph Hungbo. They are currently banned from signing academy players but that would not affect this potential signing as would be a pro.

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/29854/liverpool-eye-crystal-palace-teenage-attacker/

Fitzy1
07-09-2017, 04:20 PM
26 Million and they can have him.

DARZET EAGLE
07-09-2017, 04:23 PM
26 Million and they can have him.

No they can't, he's one of ours. Is he any good Woosie?

Mr Palace
07-09-2017, 04:38 PM
Bin dippers

exiledeagle1
07-09-2017, 04:53 PM
30 m and not a penny less.....

Malarkey
07-09-2017, 05:12 PM
Should have swapped him for Sakho

Chas
07-09-2017, 05:20 PM
Why are they banned? Doesn't seem like the smartest move for an academy player to run to a club that managed to get themselves banned from signing academy players!

Woosie
07-09-2017, 05:39 PM
They tapped up a schoolboy at Stoke

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/liverpool-banned-signing-academy-players-fined-stoke

As a result of that, there is now a significantly longer process when a player moves from a Category 1 club to Category 2, or vice versa to ensure that there is no dodgy dealing like offering the parents a house or paying their school fees etc. Palace recently lost Nathan Young-Coombes, described to me as "the best U15 in the region" to Chelsea. They also took one of our U14s last year.

No they can't, he's one of ours. Is he any good Woosie?

England have been watching him for a couple of years. He was sensational at U15 level, has stalled a little since but has started this season well in a new role.

PeterH
07-09-2017, 05:41 PM
Poor writing from our friends at SLP....

'There is further good news for the academy...'

How is tapping up one of our youngsters, and probably getting him for a few million at most, good news?

PeterH
07-09-2017, 05:44 PM
They tapped up a schoolboy at Stoke

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/liverpool-banned-signing-academy-players-fined-stoke

As a result of that, there is now a significantly longer process when a player moves from a Category 1 club to Category 2, or vice versa to ensure that there is no dodgy dealing like offering the parents a house or paying their school fees etc. Palace recently lost Nathan Young-Coombes, described to me as "the best U15 in the region" to Chelsea. They also took one of our U14s last year.



England have been watching him for a couple of years. He was sensational at U15 level, has stalled a little since but has started this season well in a new role.

That twat Southgate is partially responsable for this. He got the England job for his toadying around the FA on issues like this.

GreatGonzo
07-09-2017, 05:45 PM
Maybe he is the back up to Benteke?

Woosie
07-09-2017, 05:48 PM
Poor writing from our friends at SLP....

'There is further good news for the academy...'

How is tapping up one of our youngsters, and probably getting him for a few million at most, good news?

I wrote it. I take your point, and wouldn't phrase it that way again but it was in reference to the sentence immediately before that one - about the U16 player.

Hungbo has a pro deal with Palace so it would take a lot to get him I expect.

DARZET EAGLE
07-09-2017, 06:54 PM
Surely he's got a better chance of breaking into the first team with us than Liverpool...er I don't know though, our recent record with decent youngsters is not that good.

spt1978
07-09-2017, 06:58 PM
Assume we would receive the equivalent of two bags of crisps.

aj4england
07-09-2017, 07:06 PM
They tapped up a schoolboy at Stoke

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/liverpool-banned-signing-academy-players-fined-stoke

As a result of that, there is now a significantly longer process when a player moves from a Category 1 club to Category 2, or vice versa to ensure that there is no dodgy dealing like offering the parents a house or paying their school fees etc. Palace recently lost Nathan Young-Coombes, described to me as "the best U15 in the region" to Chelsea. They also took one of our U14s last year.



England have been watching him for a couple of years. He was sensational at U15 level, has stalled a little since but has started this season well in a new role.


So is there a point in having an academy when the big boys just filch the best from us ?

Woosie
07-09-2017, 07:18 PM
Clubs take players from each other all the time.

Kian Flanagan in our U23s was bought as a 14-year-old from Southend, Joshua Malcolm in our U18s was signed from AFC Wimbledon as an U14. Patrick Roberts at Man City joined Fulham from Wimbledon.

But Palace have a 13-year-old (Fionn Mooney - Whitgift school) involved in the latest England U15 camp which is quite a feat. We also have three others in the same camp; Kevin Gonzalez, John Kymani-Gordon and Jadan Raymond (Whitgift school). Then in the U16s we have Brandon Aveiro who is being watched by England and has played U18s for us. In the 18s we have Hungbo. Jude Russell has played every single minute since his U18 debut a week after his 15th birthday in March.

Yes, we do lose players to big clubs, but we also steal them from others and we manage to keep hold of some as well.

Huddersfield are considering closing their academy, Brentford already did this. I don't think it's the way forward but I can understand why they're doing it.

Whether there is any point - depends whether you look at it from the perspective of purely being a place for making money or making players for the first team, or whether you include the side of it that helps young people who may not otherwise have stood much of a chance in life.

DARZET EAGLE
07-09-2017, 07:27 PM
Clubs take players from each other all the time.

Kian Flanagan in our U23s was bought as a 14-year-old from Southend, Joshua Malcolm in our U18s was signed from AFC Wimbledon as an U14. Patrick Roberts at Man City joined Fulham from Wimbledon.

But Palace have a 13-year-old (Fionn Mooney - Whitgift school) involved in the latest England U15 camp which is quite a feat. We also have three others in the same camp; Kevin Gonzalez, John Kymani-Gordon and Jadan Raymond (Whitgift school). Then in the U16s we have Brandon Aveiro who is being watched by England and has played U18s for us. In the 18s we have Hungbo. Jude Russell has played every single minute since his U18 debut a week after his 15th birthday in March.

Yes, we do lose players to big clubs, but we also steal them from others and we manage to keep hold of some as well.

Huddersfield are considering closing their academy, Brentford already did this. I don't think it's the way forward but I can understand why they're doing it.

Whether there is any point - depends whether you look at it from the perspective of purely being a place for making money or making players for the first team, or whether you include the side of it that helps young people who may not otherwise have stood much of a chance in life.

Very informative update Woosie, sadly highly rated players at 15-17 rarely break through. Exceptions happen at Liverpool and United, Chelsea loan theirs out for other clubs to develope them, and City just buy proven stars for obscene fees.

mushroom
07-09-2017, 07:50 PM
What kind of player is he Woosie?

Target man, nippy striker, moody maverick or combination of all 3

New LP
07-09-2017, 07:52 PM
This is why there's f all point bothering with an academy. It's not in the best interests of the player either.

Woosie
07-09-2017, 07:57 PM
What kind of player is he Woosie?

Target man, nippy striker, moody maverick or combination of all 3

He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.

Selhurst Celtic
07-09-2017, 08:26 PM
But Palace have a 13-year-old (Fionn Mooney - Whitgift school) involved in the latest England U15 camp which is quite a feat.

With a name like that I hope be declares for Ireland.

PeterH
07-09-2017, 08:31 PM
How about a rule?

If someone comes and takes an acadamy player, the original club get first refusal on a loan back later at NO cost.

mushroom
07-09-2017, 08:33 PM
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.


Ta

elgin eagle
07-09-2017, 08:59 PM
Maybe he is the back up to Benteke?

Didnt do Fowler or Owen any harm. Not that they were backup to Benteke. Where would Rashford be now if the wankers hadnt had so many injuries and beaker was forced to play him?

spy
07-09-2017, 09:44 PM
Given our lack of strikers then maybe he could get a game for the first team!!

AJ
07-09-2017, 10:54 PM
That twat Southgate is partially responsable for this. He got the England job for his toadying around the FA on issues like this.
How about we look internally, 5 years prem money and our academy is (or was until recently) was based at goals. Why are we not a cat1 academy? They can all be answered i am sure but for years we relied on our youth team to send players to the first team, that dried up when the current owners took over. At least it seems that way.

Chris K
07-09-2017, 11:20 PM
How about we look internally, 5 years prem money and our academy is (or was until recently) was based at goals. Why are we not a cat1 academy? They can all be answered i am sure but for years we relied on our youth team to send players to the first team, that dried up when the current owners took over. At least it seems that way.

A cynic may say that we've never been in administration since the new owners either so haven't had nothing but kids left. It's also a different ball game in the Premier League as the stacks are so much higher. This may be the season that changes all that. A couple of knocks here and there upfront and we'd be left with kids on the bench at least.

If and when the opportunity comes lets hope the likes of Lokilo and Kai Kai grab it

PeterH
07-09-2017, 11:54 PM
How about we look internally, 5 years prem money and our academy is (or was until recently) was based at goals. Why are we not a cat1 academy? They can all be answered i am sure but for years we relied on our youth team to send players to the first team, that dried up when the current owners took over. At least it seems that way.

Agreed. I'm still mystified by the decision not to go for Cat 1 in the first place.

eagles #1
08-09-2017, 12:26 AM
Surely he's got a better chance of breaking into the first team with us than Liverpool...er I don't know though, our recent record with decent youngsters is not that good.

I bet Liverpool have given more first team debuts to their academy boys than we have in the last 5 years.

Adlerhorst
08-09-2017, 07:37 AM
I bet Liverpool have given more first team debuts to their academy boys than we have in the last 5 years.in the first 18 or so months after Kloop joined Liverpool he gave 19 players their debut. About half were academy players. Some of those had been "acquired" from other academies (spurs, Arsenal, Barcelona) but mostly kids from the NW.

elgin eagle
08-09-2017, 07:53 AM
Dont think we can afford to let any talented forward players leave given the shortage at the club. Stick him on the bench with bissaka.

AddoWolz
08-09-2017, 08:02 AM
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.

Sounds like the sort of player the first team are missing , put him on the bench and give him some first team mins and let's see what the lads got :p

adman50
08-09-2017, 08:02 AM
Woosie- what is your opinion of teams like Brentford ditching the whole academy set up in favour of a B team. I recently read that Huddersfield were going to save over 2m a year doing so.

Eagle Kneevil
08-09-2017, 08:04 AM
With a name like that I hope be declares for Ireland.

Or go with Ffion and declare for Wales.

winners
08-09-2017, 08:07 AM
Agreed. I'm still mystified by the decision not to go for Cat 1 in the first place.

need to buy a new training ground first, until we get the required land footprint, we cannot house the required facilities to achieve Cat 1

Nigelbrag
08-09-2017, 08:27 AM
Unfortunately any young talented player will always be at the mercy of the "big boys" which surely should be the warning signs for Management to make every effort to up our efforts to make Palace a club that CAN hold on to its future stars.
But as long as we lag behind in our Youth development facilities/stadium, these kids will always be vulnerable to be tempted away which is totally understandable.
What i feel could be a real missed opportunity is if FdB were to leave, as his reputation with youngsters and their development is legendary and is just what is needed to encourage our youngsters to want to stay and develop at CPFC.
Is this not one of the reasons which would have tempted SP into appointing de Boer? Even with our unfortunate form currently, crucially we need FdB to succeed and continue the development of the club at ALL levels.

BeaverWilly
08-09-2017, 08:35 AM
Clubs take players from each other all the time.

Kian Flanagan in our U23s was bought as a 14-year-old from Southend, Joshua Malcolm in our U18s was signed from AFC Wimbledon as an U14. Patrick Roberts at Man City joined Fulham from Wimbledon.

But Palace have a 13-year-old (Fionn Mooney - Whitgift school) involved in the latest England U15 camp which is quite a feat. We also have three others in the same camp; Kevin Gonzalez, John Kymani-Gordon and Jadan Raymond (Whitgift school). Then in the U16s we have Brandon Aveiro who is being watched by England and has played U18s for us. In the 18s we have Hungbo. Jude Russell has played every single minute since his U18 debut a week after his 15th birthday in March.

Yes, we do lose players to big clubs, but we also steal them from others and we manage to keep hold of some as well.

Huddersfield are considering closing their academy, Brentford already did this. I don't think it's the way forward but I can understand why they're doing it.

Whether there is any point - depends whether you look at it from the perspective of purely being a place for making money or making players for the first team, or whether you include the side of it that helps young people who may not otherwise have stood much of a chance in life.

Thanks for the update.

Any youngsters anywhere near breaking into the first team right now? A couple of seasons ago Hiram Boateng seemed close, but we just sold him so clearly he wasn't in De Boer's plans.

BBK
08-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Surely he's got a better chance of breaking into the first team with us than Liverpool...er I don't know though, our recent record with decent youngsters is not that good.

Yeah our club's mentality is shit. FdB, and Freedman, could change it but looks like he Frank is going to be gone soon to be replaced by a tradition English 442, only play EPL ready journeymen, manager.

DARZET EAGLE
08-09-2017, 09:01 AM
I bet Liverpool have given more first team debuts to their academy boys than we have in the last 5 years.

On second thoughts I can't argue with that, a good example is the 17 year old who scored on his International debut for Wales.:p

SilentAssassin
08-09-2017, 09:23 AM
Think one of the things that go against us when we have players on the verge of breaking through, we lump the first team with bang average players. I don't see what the likes of Mutch or Lee offered more than KaiKai or Boateng and I do feel as though that may have stunned their development a bit, especially KaiKai who I think could benefit from a few appearances in the Premier League.

The exciting thing about FDB coming in was seeing how ready he was to put in the likes of KaiKai, Bissaka and Lokilo and if he pulls it around I hope he continues the trend. Lokilo especially looks a lot better for his involvement in the first team, Nya Kirby also doesn't seem far off and Bissaka looks like he could have a route in this season.

There are times where I can see where a loan would be benifical to a players development but during Pardew's tenure we were left crying out for KaiKai at least twice when injuries hit and fans had lost faith in seeing Lee, Mutch and Sako trot about or suffered with injuries as well. It's pressure to come into that situation but I think fans, especially Palace fans, give youth fans a chance and encouragement when they come through. It gives a massive sense of pride seeing a local lad pull on the shirt and I think a lot of our players in the past have fed off that when you look at the careers some of our players that have graduated from the youth team have had here or elsewhere.

Hopefully we hang onto Hungbo and like Lokilo, Bissaka, Kirby and KaiKai a route into the first team and involvement in the matchday squad won't be far off.

Scoot
08-09-2017, 09:23 AM
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.

Wish more of the first team would take a shot from distance now and then instead of fannying around

Wycombe Eagle#2
08-09-2017, 09:41 AM
Woosie- what is your opinion of teams like Brentford ditching the whole academy set up in favour of a B team. I recently read that Huddersfield were going to save over 2m a year doing so.

A wifes colleague of mine is the physio/kit woman of their B team and big Brentford fans. Apparently the academy wasn't productive. Big costs, nothing coming through and having to compete with other clubs taking players. They therefore ditched the academy and started a B team. The B team is a squad of u23 players, many from Europe. The hope is they then progress to the full squad. Basically their fixtures are invite games against the like of Man City u23s for example.

A shame for local youth talent you'd think but they now have a similar set up to Wycombe like a community trust project. We played Brentford in a tournament in the summer actually. There are quite a few clubs like this now. Wycombe were one of the only clubs without an academy until recently but they have this community trust scheme. Other clubs they've played are Reading, Swindon, MK, Northampton, Luton, Coventry, Dartford academy, Gillingham, Oxford and even Fulham. I've known some age groups to be invited to play the odd full academy. For instance the U13s &14 elite boys are playing Reading academy on Saturday at the Madjeski complex. The highlight last season was the U13s elite playing Boulougne who were won tour. This was Kante team as a youth player and they beat PSG academy 2 weeks prior.

These set up have a loose link to the main team. For example Wycombe can't sign these kids on until they're 16. Training appears very good with the development players having a 2hr training session each week and elite players having 2 x 1.45hr sessions a week. Facilities are also excellent and the advantage is the players can also play for their local Sat/Sun side still. Most of the fixtures happen in school hols and only the odd invitation not in school hols to have minimal impact on local sides.

Interestingly Wycombe results and performances from all age groups have been very good and are now looking to start their academy back up. They are also now planning to enter the u15s mixed with u16s into the allied counties league to give them more exposure. It'll be tough but a good experience for players.

The whole academy set up is very confusing though. I don't think it has had the desired impact it was set out to have and has really only benfited the big clubs, who no longer have to pay larger sums to smaller clubs which helped support the pyrimid. Chelsea are an example of utilising the system to its full potential. They're not interested in actually bringing anyone into the first team unless they're a Messi, Ronaldo or Bale. The shame is their academy is excellent. Its a businees for them as they stock pile player's. Give them a footballing education and rent or sell them on making huge profits very year.I imagine now most clubs just struggle to compete with them. Southgate has a bit to answer for

sheepy
08-09-2017, 09:59 AM
I still say ditch the club academy route and fund it centrally via the FA.

Ban clubs from signing players until they are 17 but keep the homegrown rules in place for champions league + leagues.

Lets end this obsession with treating 15 / 16 year old kids that can be valued and sold to other clubs for

Owngoal
08-09-2017, 11:13 AM
Wish more of the first team would take a shot from distance now and then instead of fannying around

Refreshing to see Lokilo who does that

glaziers fan
08-09-2017, 12:06 PM
I wrote it. I take your point, and wouldn't phrase it that way again but it was in reference to the sentence immediately before that one - about the U16 player.

Hungbo has a pro deal with Palace so it would take a lot to get him I expect.

When can we offer pro deals, and how many years is his contract? Thought you could only offer pro deals to players 18+.

Woosie
08-09-2017, 03:44 PM
When can we offer pro deals, and how many years is his contract? Thought you could only offer pro deals to players 18+.

A player can be offered a pro deal at pretty much any age above 14 I think.

The contract only comes into force on the 17th birthday.

A lot of players these days sign scholarships (aged 16) with pro deals attached. Kian Flanagan did that for us when he signed. Nya Kirby the same. Francis Baptiste may have been another.

glaziers fan
08-09-2017, 03:46 PM
A player can be offered a pro deal at pretty much any age. The contract only comes into force on the 17th birthday.

A lot of players these days sign scholarships (aged 16) with pro deals attached. Kian Flanagan did that for us when he signed. Nya Kirby the same. Francis Baptiste may have been another.

Thanks for this.

And presumably that means until the 17th birthday the player can be poached for relative peanuts (compensation) still? It's not the offering or signing of the pro contract that's the crucial bit, it's the pro contract coming into force?

Palaceguard
08-09-2017, 05:38 PM
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.

Blimey, on that basis sounds like he'd walk in to our first team!

Debut vs Burnley?

ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o
09-09-2017, 12:37 PM
They therefore ditched the academy and started a B team. The B team is a squad of u23 players, many from Europe. The hope is they then progress to the full squad. Basically their fixtures are invite games against the like of Man City u23s for example.

I dont understand it...surely the whole process is crying out for a return of the Combination League ?

What could be more simpler ?

Woosie
09-09-2017, 12:41 PM
Hungbo scored a penalty in Palace U18s' 4-0 win at Huddersfield today. Sean Robertson (x2), and Brandon (a trialist) with the other goals.

Also, a thread here on the current state of Palace's academy if anyone's interested: https://twitter.com/PalaceYouth/status/906473643160596480

Woosie
09-09-2017, 12:49 PM
Woosie- what is your opinion of teams like Brentford ditching the whole academy set up in favour of a B team. I recently read that Huddersfield were going to save over 2m a year doing so.

Wycombe Eagle's post is an excellent one and is well worth reading.

I don't know, it's not an easy thing to have a full opinion on from the outside looking in, regardless of how much information I can retain on how the academy process works.

Until this year I found it very difficult to find information about any age group below the U18s.

Ultimately, I think the academy set-up is the best idea, but it depends on the way in which it is structured, the coaches, the pool of talent you are able to attract, the funding provided etc etc.

The academy also has a lot to be grateful for in respect of educating and developing young men in their personal lives, providing them with a lifeline from a difficult start in life - especially in some of the areas Palace recruit from.

Huddersfield's catchment area is significantly smaller than Palace's, and Palace often take Chelsea's cast-offs. That plays a part in it.

EPPP was a step in the right direction but was also deeply flawed. It has (literally) created a four-tier system. Whereas before, Palace would play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United, they know no longer have that chance. If you can't play against the best then you have less of an opportunity to develop into the best player, and the club also has a slimmer chance of attracting the best young players to the club and the best coaches.

I don't agree with scrapping the entire academy and focussing on a B team, but I can see why some clubs have done it. If everyone does that then it kind of defeats the point. It would be far better to collectively lobby the PL/FA to create a new plan for the professional development of youth footballers.

Martin H
09-09-2017, 02:47 PM
Wycombe Eagle's post is an excellent one and is well worth reading.

I don't know, it's not an easy thing to have a full opinion on from the outside looking in, regardless of how much information I can retain on how the academy process works.

Until this year I found it very difficult to find information about any age group below the U18s.

Ultimately, I think the academy set-up is the best idea, but it depends on the way in which it is structured, the coaches, the pool of talent you are able to attract, the funding provided etc etc.

The academy also has a lot to be grateful for in respect of educating and developing young men in their personal lives, providing them with a lifeline from a difficult start in life - especially in some of the areas Palace recruit from.

Huddersfield's catchment area is significantly smaller than Palace's, and Palace often take Chelsea's cast-offs. That plays a part in it.

EPPP was a step in the right direction but was also deeply flawed. It has (literally) created a four-tier system. Whereas before, Palace would play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United, they know no longer have that chance. If you can't play against the best then you have less of an opportunity to develop into the best player, and the club also has a slimmer chance of attracting the best young players to the club and the best coaches.

I don't agree with scrapping the entire academy and focussing on a B team, but I can see why some clubs have done it. If everyone does that then it kind of defeats the point. It would be far better to collectively lobby the PL/FA to create a new plan for the professional development of youth footballers.

Thanks - As ever insightful. From a far less well informed position I would agree re EPPP which seems to me to yet another example of something defined in the name of developing the best players that has even more to do with protecting the status quo re the 'big clubs' as does STCC and FFP.

The dilemma is that it is very difficult to bring the youth players into a Premier League side unless they really are an exceptional talent (I.e. can compete at 19-21 with senior, experienced players). Players of that talent are few and far between, by definition, as senior players are drawn from the best in the world. So when they are that good they attract the big clubs who steal them early leaving us with the cost of them and the rest covered by a pittance if we are lucky. Southampton after many years investment and a class leading academy/scouting setup, seemed to have nailed that but I think even that may be slowing down a little in terms of flowing through to the first team.

I would be gutted if they were to stop funding the academy and I hope they do crack the facilities, structure and investment. I think they have been upgrading the quality of the youngsters and there are some exciting ones by the sounds of it in the pipeline but can we keep them and can we harness them. I would say DeBoer is the first Manager we have had for a long long while that would consider them seriously. But ......

Woosie
17-09-2017, 10:01 AM
The Mirror now reporting that Chelsea are also interested and Palace would be due compensation. That's incorrect, they would have to agree a fee with us as he has a pro deal in place.