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SOUTHGATE EAGLE
11-09-2017, 10:58 PM
I've been plain about my disgust at FdB's sacking and initially blamed it on a cowardly and premature abandonment of the very footballing principles De Boer was supposed to be here for. Some here may completely disagree with that viewpoint and fair play to them for that is not the point of this thread.

Yet the more I read about it, the more it looks as if certain players, in particular some deemed surplus to requirement, have banded together to oust the manager.

Whether people here are glad at the resultant firing of FdB or not, it leads to a question that I don't recall being an issue at our club too often in our past; is it ever right that players have a form of veto power over their boss? Should a chairman back his appointee to the hilt when it is morally justified but against a tide of player discontent? Should a club force players to accept their boss, like most of us mere mortals must Mon-Fri, week-in, week-out? If a player contracts to play for a club, should that automatically mean said player should accept the management that club emplaces above him? Is it time for chairmen to make an example of dissident players rather than wield the axe on their behalf?

Discuss.

Stellavista
11-09-2017, 11:01 PM
I didn't want de Boer, and I am not heartbroken to see him gone, but if there's any truth in the multiple reports of player 'power', than it's a disgrace and those players need to be cleared out as soon as possible.

Thefunkymonk
11-09-2017, 11:01 PM
It isn't the first time

jimmy the gent
11-09-2017, 11:05 PM
Well they were right to lobby for Holloway and Pardew's sacking to be fair. Maybe they were right about this one too. The only thing that is concerning is that it sounds like it could be the likes of Delaney, CYL and Martin Kelly getting invovled, none of whom should be anywhere near the first team. Reserve teams the land over are filled with players with grudges against the management, quite why their whims are being pandered to here i don't know.

Maiden Eagle
11-09-2017, 11:08 PM
Apparently Delaney appears to be the spokesman. Might be bullsh*t, might not.
But I have to say (having praised the bloke on here, quite often) if true, I hope
he never kicks a ball for Palace, again.

Maiden Eagle
11-09-2017, 11:14 PM
Well they were right to lobby for Holloway and Pardew's sacking to be fair. Maybe they were right about this one too. The only thing that is concerning is that it sounds like it could be the likes of Delaney, CYL and Martin Kelly getting invovled, none of whom should be anywhere near the first team. Reserve teams the land over are filled with players with grudges against the management, quite why their whims are being pandered to here i don't know.

Didn't Lee have a public moan about Pardew at the end if the 15/16 season ? I think we all thought that would end his (very undistinguished) Palace career. Unfortunately, like a bad smell, he is still here.

swirly007
11-09-2017, 11:18 PM
Does anyone have any links to what the players are said to have said/done? I'm a bit out of the loop!

SOUTHGATE EAGLE
11-09-2017, 11:27 PM
Does anyone have any links to what the players are said to have said/done? I'm a bit out of the loop!

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a7941376.html

Optimistic Kev
11-09-2017, 11:28 PM
Wilf nailed his colours to the mast a few days ago.

https://twitter.com/zonin2000/status/905901211395776512

But he's a hero so that's ok. Delaney isn't so he's a snake who shouldn't kick a ball again.

The fickleness of the BBS knows no bounds.

Billyd
11-09-2017, 11:36 PM
Wilf nailed his colours to the mast a few days ago.

https://twitter.com/zonin2000/status/905901211395776512

But he's a hero so that's ok. Delaney isn't so he's a snake who shouldn't kick a ball again.

The fickleness of the BBS has no bounds.

Was that video really while De Boer was in charge?!?! Lol if it was. Clearly players took issue with 3 4 3 then.

As for Delaney i wondered how long it would take before he got blamed. People need to watch Holloway on that sunday sky sports show talking about losing the dressing room. He said at Palace when the chips were down a few players werent trying for him he then gave example who gave their all in training and on the pitch every week and included Delaney in the example (along with Jedi and Speroni i think). Yet according to a few it was him who got him sacked....

cdm61
11-09-2017, 11:38 PM
Grouty will deal with grasses later

Optimistic Kev
11-09-2017, 11:39 PM
Posted by Wilf last Thursday. In fairness it worked we went 4-3-3 against Burnley apparently against de Boer's wishes if media are to be believed.

ExiledStirling
11-09-2017, 11:39 PM
The problem is that the role of football manager is seen to be one that should be carried out in an autocratic fashion.

If we are telling the players to simply shut up and do as they are told and we also expect the chairman to butt out of footballing matters how does anyone nip in the bud the things that are starting to go wrong?

meee
11-09-2017, 11:40 PM
Wilf nailed his colours to the mast a few days ago.

https://twitter.com/zonin2000/status/905901211395776512

But he's a hero so that's ok. Delaney isn't so he's a snake who shouldn't kick a ball again.

The fickleness of the BBS knows no bounds.

I thought this had been done to death?He was playing FIFA.
lol

henryhallandhisbasque
11-09-2017, 11:43 PM
Why did Dann miss that header?

meee
11-09-2017, 11:44 PM
The problem is that the role of football manager is seen to be one that should be carried out in an autocratic fashion.

If we are telling the players to simply shut up and do as they are told and we also expect the chairman to butt out of footballing matters how does anyone nip in the bud the things that are starting to go wrong?

I'm pretty sure most clubs work on the basis that players have an input along with all of the coaching staff and the manager then takes the decisions and ultimately responsibility.I'd be shocked if there's too many who still work autocratically.I think the issue being discussed here is not so much the players having an input but their deliberate attempts to push someone out of a job.It makes you question whether Lee did what he did on Sunday deliberately and whether he,along with others,have been giving everything to get us results.That shouldn't really be a question.

palaceporky
11-09-2017, 11:50 PM
Why did Dann miss that header?

Why. Because he did. It's called a sitter and he missed it, as per sitters that are missed week in week out.
But.. If only.

ExiledStirling
11-09-2017, 11:52 PM
I'm pretty sure most clubs work on the basis that players have an input along with all of the coaching staff and the manager then takes the decisions and ultimately responsibility.I'd be shocked if there's too many who still work autocratically.I think the issue being discussed here is not so much the players having an input but their deliberate attempts to push someone out of a job.It makes you question whether Lee did what he did on Sunday deliberately and whether he,along with others,have been giving everything to get us results.That shouldn't really be a question.
I know this, but the point is , if the players feel their input to the manager is being ignored are we then saying they should shut up and not go and speak to someone else like the chairman to express their views?

Surely if they do speak to the chairman, surely he/she can then make a decision as to whether the player(s) concerns are out of self interest or are valid and then act accordingly.

CPFC.1990
11-09-2017, 11:55 PM
As has been said many times before, this is the most unlikeable set of Palace players i've known. Apart from Julian of course.

Stinger1
12-09-2017, 12:23 AM
It all depends on how this came about. If SP, Mark Bright or someone at the club approached a few players and asked how things were going then I don't think there's anything wrong with a player giving an honest opinion.

GorBlimey
12-09-2017, 12:28 AM
It all depends on how this came about. If SP, Mark Bright or someone at the club approached a few players and asked how things were going then I don't think there's anything wrong with a player giving an honest opinion.

If they're ones being shown up on the training pitch by a 47 year old ex-player then there is something badly wrong with it.

cybais
12-09-2017, 12:31 AM
I doubt we'll suddenly pull a Leicester City though. It'd be nice if we could. :)

meee
12-09-2017, 12:41 AM
I know this, but the point is , if the players feel their input to the manager is being ignored are we then saying they should shut up and not go and speak to someone else like the chairman to express their views?

Surely if they do speak to the chairman, surely he/she can then make a decision as to whether the player(s) concerns are out of self interest or are valid and then act accordingly.

I would hope they could speak to the manager but whether it is the manager or chairman is largely irrelevant as that is something I would find difficult to take issue with.I would take issue with someone going onto a pitch and deliberately not doing their job properly and I'm pretty sure that happened over the course of the first 3 games.I was largely impressed with the effort at Burnley(with the obvious exception of Lee and to a lesser extent Townsend in the 1st half,although Townsend played very well in the 2nd half)but giving 100% effort for 1 game in 4 is just not good enough.There was a case at Watford in their promotion season where the manager resigned despite winning 4 of their first 5 games because the players didn't like him.For me that is the correct way to raise their concerns.

jimmy the gent
12-09-2017, 12:43 AM
So whoever comes in has to indulge the egos of the likes of Delaney Kelly and Chong Yong lee in order to keep there job? Ridiculous. Also getting affronted because de Boer took part in a few training games? Pathetic. What a bunch of precious overindulged wankers

Eagle's Nest
12-09-2017, 12:47 AM
I don't like how Parish has briefed all of this to Ashton and Malyon. It's equally odious that they've guzzled it all up.

Poor behaviour all round.

Hedgehog
12-09-2017, 12:53 AM
It's not in The Independent article, but I've seen Jairo Riedewald's name included in the player power, which seems very bizarre to say the least.

CP Satellite
12-09-2017, 01:10 AM
I don't like how Parish has briefed all of this to Ashton and Malyon. It's equally odious that they've guzzled it all up.

Poor behaviour all round.

Don't agree - I'm not Parish's greatest fan, but wether he has got people like Ashton to help his agenda or not - there were plenty of signs you could see with your own eyes that the players were not buying into what FdB was asking of them.

The evidence was there right at the start with Luka playing at CB and saying plainly he was not comfortable there, many knew about Delaney and Kelly falling out with De Boer's methods weeks ago and it was plain to anyone who has played football at any level how hopelessly unsuited Ward was playing the right wing back role, you did not need to pay a press reporter to find that out.

Some will say that it is a manager's right to manage - but when the evidence is there that he has lost the plot, a mutiny is the only way to stay afloat.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
12-09-2017, 01:12 AM
It's difficult to draw too much from the article(s) in my opinion. It may not simply be that the players were so upset by being dropped by De Boer but more about the manner he treated the way he dealt with it. The article in the Sun suggests Kelly and Ward both felt humiliated by the way they were treated. It is one thing to accept who your boss is and work for him, but if any of us felt our line manager at work was being disrespectful to us or treating us unfairly then we may well raise it with someone above his head.

I do wonder if he lacks some man management skills. At the end of the day, part of a manager's job is to keep good morale among the people you manage - otherwise they won't be productive. And let's remember that there was talk of rumours that Inter players were very unhappy, very quickly with his manner and methods too - so I suspect Frank has to take some responsibility.

I also think messing the players around position-wise will have also made some feel hung out to dry. Eg. Ward not getting any time at wing back pre-season then suddenly thrown in and struggling. Kelly left out of the plans then suddenly chucked on against Swansea and struggling in the new system he had had very little time in. Delaney probably felt hung out to dry playing in a back 3 and having to face a winger like Salah who made him look stupid in that pre-season game. Luka the same.

jimmy the gent
12-09-2017, 01:17 AM
They're paid vast amounts of money, how about they respect the chain of command? Tall order these days it seems. F'cking darlings. Pathetic.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
12-09-2017, 01:46 AM
They're paid vast amounts of money, how about they respect the chain of command? Tall order these days it seems. F'cking darlings. Pathetic.

Who is saying that they didn't respect the chain of command? Isn't it possible that they did and kept working hard but at the same time had major reservations and concerns about the management? I'm sure Parish and anyone who saw our first three games of the season would have had significant worries about the way the team was managed. So if he then approached players to ask how they felt things were going on the training ground, shouldn't they express how they feel?

I don't know if that is how it panned out but no one here knows exactly what did happen, so accusing them of not listening to the manager or respecting the chain of the command seems a bit harsh when we simply don't know the facts.

olly cromwell
12-09-2017, 04:50 AM
I am glad that all of this is coming out, players need to take responsibility as does parish

H.Bomb
12-09-2017, 05:54 AM
From what I've heard, He (FDB) Was just very unpopular. He hung certain players out to dry in front of the squad, nobody understood what he was doing and he was very blunt about a lot of things. Players went to Parish 3 weeks ago to complain.

De Boer and Parish properly clashed. De Boer has an ego from his reputation so was never going to listen to a businessman. Would have been better if he'd said that when interviewed to save all this mess but there we go! Mistakes on all sides but best to move on.

Eaglesfan1
12-09-2017, 06:01 AM
Despite lurching from crisis to crisis for the past 2 or so years, remember the constant in those 2 years (the players) are absolutely free from blame.

De Boer's fault for doing a few keepie ups in training and expecting Premier League footballers to be able to pass a ball to each other.

beef
12-09-2017, 06:07 AM
Obviously you don't want out of control player power (Sunderland being the classic example) but when we have a good manager, a good shape, good tactics and proper training our team performs really well. I like this bunch of players - I think they want to win games. If they think the manager is preventing them from doing that I don't see any problem with bringing it to the board. They clearly could not play FdB's system...

TWELLSEagle
12-09-2017, 06:07 AM
I didn't want de Boer, and I am not heartbroken to see him gone, but if there's any truth in the multiple reports of player 'power', than it's a disgrace and those players need to be cleared out as soon as possible.

This

Nostrils
12-09-2017, 06:07 AM
Blimey, it's almost as if the BBS is saying, everybody at the club from players, staff, management and board are all complete *****. I'm just waiting to hear a rumour suggesting the kids selling the programs are spitting phlegm in the middle or the bar staff are putting toenails in beer.

beef
12-09-2017, 06:11 AM
Townsend is a great example - give him a decent manager and a game plan and he gives everything for the cause. What is Benteke supposed to think of FdB's system?

Pulis gave every player a job and created a real team. Allardyce knew how to get the best out of big egos and play our team to its strengths.

This is football at the top level - you have to have a manager who can manage premier league footballers...

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 06:13 AM
This is all rumour - I'd back the players every day over a manager who displayed a complete lack of awareness about the squad and who was tactically inept. Players like Delaney will go down in palace history - de Boer will be an infamous footnote. Delaney would never have expected a lot of games this season so I don't buy that he was the main culprit. Let's back club legends over someone who is dining out on their career as a fantastic player.

If the players did go to the chairman then they will have good reason. Does anyone seriously think he has been sacked because of four results - albeit scandalous ones at that? Of course not. This runs deeper and de Boer wasn't the right fit. The more I think about it the more I think we've done the right thing - regrettable though that is.

Eaglesfan1
12-09-2017, 06:18 AM
This is all rumour - I'd back the players every day over a manager who displayed a complete lack of awareness about the squad and who was tactically inept. Players like Delaney will go down in palace history - de Boer will be an infamous footnote. Delaney would never have expected a lot of games this season so I don't buy that he was the main culprit. Let's back club legends over someone who is dining out on their career as a fantastic player.

If the players did go to the chairman then they will have good reason. Does anyone seriously think he has been sacked because of four results - albeit scandalous ones at that? Of course not. This runs deeper and de Boer wasn't the right fit. The more I think about it the more I think we've done the right thing - regrettable though that is.
Legend is banded about far too much these days.

Achieving promotion doesn't automatically make you a legend. Nobody on here would call Joel Ward a legend despite him also being part of that team and playing far more games than Delaney in the Premier League.

Of the current squad, only Speroni and Wilf can be seen as legends in my eyes.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 06:20 AM
Legend is banded about far too much these days.

Achieving promotion doesn't automatically make you a legend. Nobody on here would call Joel Ward a legend despite him also being part of that team and playing far more games than Delaney in the Premier League.

Of the current squad, only Speroni and Wilf can be seen as legends in my eyes.

I see what you mean but Delaney is right up there for me. He was immense in the promotion year and then early premier league years. Legend/hero - whatever you want to call it, he has made a major contribution to the club's history.

beef
12-09-2017, 06:21 AM
If we had a team of Joel Wards we wouldn't be in this mess.

Nostrils
12-09-2017, 06:21 AM
Players like Delaney will go down in palace history - de Boer will be an infamous footnote. Delaney would never have expected a lot of games this season so I don't buy that he was the main culprit.

I'm also uncomfortable with the assumption that Delaney is some kind of conniving 'Littlefinger' character that's destroying the club from within.

spt1978
12-09-2017, 06:22 AM
Clear the players out. This is Palace not ******* Chelsea.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 06:22 AM
I'm also uncomfortable with the assumption that Delaney is some kind of conniving 'Littlefinger' character that's destroying the club from within.

Me too. All unfounded bollocks.

loz
12-09-2017, 06:23 AM
This is all rumour - I'd back the players every day over a manager who displayed a complete lack of awareness about the squad and who was tactically inept. Players like Delaney will go down in palace history - de Boer will be an infamous footnote. Delaney would never have expected a lot of games this season so I don't buy that he was the main culprit. Let's back club legends over someone who is dining out on their career as a fantastic player.

If the players did go to the chairman then they will have good reason. Does anyone seriously think he has been sacked because of four results - albeit scandalous ones at that? Of course not. This runs deeper and de Boer wasn't the right fit. The more I think about it the more I think we've done the right thing - regrettable though that is.

^^^ very much this

aj4england
12-09-2017, 06:24 AM
This is nonsense , in any employment if you have a new manager who treats you poorly , doesnt value you or communicate well and is affecting your performance detrimentally - you are entilted to say something. of course you need to do it in the right way but the issue here is fdbs character i think. As the same issues seemed to arise with SP and others

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 06:30 AM
This is nonsense , in any employment if you have a new manager who treats you poorly , doesnt value you or communicate well and is affecting your performance detrimentally - you are entilted to say something. of course you need to do it in the right way but the issue here is fdbs character i think. As the same issues seemed to arise with SP and others

And the same thing happened at Inter. :rolleyes:

Oh no wait that does count does it as it doesn't fit with other people's agendas!? ;)

01CPFC
12-09-2017, 06:30 AM
Calling our players "cowards" after the loss to Swansea ,probably wasn't the correct words to inspire your players in the dressing room,you treat your players like shit you deserve to go,goodbye DeB
DeB obviously lost the dressing room
Thanks to say he has gone!!!!!!!
Coyp

Panther
12-09-2017, 06:34 AM
If we had a team of Joel Wards we wouldn't be in this mess.

We wouldn't be scoring many goals though. Oh, hang on......

Zohar's Penalty
12-09-2017, 06:35 AM
I'm behind the players 100% on this. The guy was an arrogant arsehole who put us backwards at an alarming rate. The more I read about it the more I back Parish on this.

Those of you getting on your high horse and being all holier than though, perhaps back your own club, and long serving players- proper Palace people- rather than a manager who was quite clearly deluded & an horrendous people person who said we were a "stepping stone" in his first interview. **** FDB.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 06:37 AM
I'm behind the players 100% on this. The guy was an arrogant arsehole who put us backwards at an alarming rate. The more I read about it the more I back Parish on this.

Those of you getting on your high horse and being all holier than though, perhaps back your own club, and long serving players- proper Palace people- rather than a manager who was quite clearly deluded & an horrendous people person who said we were a "stepping stone" in his first interview. **** FDB.

Yup totally agree. :p..We are Crystal Palace FC not FdB FC.

Zohar's Penalty
12-09-2017, 06:38 AM
This is all rumour - I'd back the players every day over a manager who displayed a complete lack of awareness about the squad and who was tactically inept. Players like Delaney will go down in palace history - de Boer will be an infamous footnote. Delaney would never have expected a lot of games this season so I don't buy that he was the main culprit. Let's back club legends over someone who is dining out on their career as a fantastic player.

If the players did go to the chairman then they will have good reason. Does anyone seriously think he has been sacked because of four results - albeit scandalous ones at that? Of course not. This runs deeper and de Boer wasn't the right fit. The more I think about it the more I think we've done the right thing - regrettable though that is.

Should've read this before I posted. Spot on.

New LP
12-09-2017, 06:40 AM
So it's the players who fell out with him and are responsible for his sacking and not Parish then?

Mr Iguana
12-09-2017, 06:50 AM
The problem is that the role of football manager is seen to be one that should be carried out in an autocratic fashion.

If we are telling the players to simply shut up and do as they are told and we also expect the chairman to butt out of footballing matters how does anyone nip in the bud the things that are starting to go wrong?

This is what I think the problem has been. It looks like no-one warmed to De Boer at the club, and quite possibly he had lost the dressing room. Clearly Stevie P was alarmed at what was developing, and chose to pull the plug quickly.

Whilst the whole thing appears to be a massive cock up, it could be construed that De Boer promised something quite different than he planned to deliver. He promised 'evolution', and then completely changed the formation, and tinkered with player roles all pre-season, just to change again when the season started.

Personally, whilst sad about how this whole thing has unfolded, I think getting De Boer out early is probably the right decision. We have quality players coming back into the side, and time enough to turn it around.

Mr Iguana
12-09-2017, 06:52 AM
Should've read this before I posted. Spot on.

My sentiments entirely :)

MENTALLY TOUGH
12-09-2017, 06:55 AM
The players who bar Zaha have been on the whole shite for the past 20 months.

N Herts Eagle
12-09-2017, 06:57 AM
And the same thing happened at Inter. :rolleyes:

Oh no wait that does count does it as it doesn't fit with other people's agendas!? ;) You also need to look at Ajax and how that ended. The issue is not about the players.
If people want to play to an agenda then the question to be asked is how did FdB get the job in the first place. Inter nothing seems to have been learnt from what happened there we had the pre season he wanted and the team put out against Huddersfield in all honesty was a disgrace it bore nothing like the one we had been using and was totally disorganised. Liverpool was better but Swansea it went backwards. Reading now the change from 4 back to 3 more or less at the last minute it showed on the day....
The consequences of not taking action quickly once the mistake was realised is to high, but other chairmen may well of left it to late to save face, Fulham springs to mind Moyes at Sunderland.
Sad day the promise once again not full filled but onwards and hopefully upwards.

PalaceForever
12-09-2017, 06:58 AM
The players who bar Zaha have been on the whole shite for the past 20 months.

Or the players who have kept us in this league for 4 continuous seasons despite all the managerial change and turmoil?

Neckinger Eagle
12-09-2017, 06:59 AM
The thing that doesn't sit right with me is that the players named would hardly be considered first team regulars irrespective of who the manager was.

I could understand it if it was the core of the team like Puncheon or Dann, or the marquee players like Wilf, Benteke or Cabaye.

Irrespective of his history with the club, Delaney is now past it. He wouldn't get into any other Premier League team, and probably not in many of the 25s. It was typical nostalgic Parish to extend his contract this season, more in keeping with still picking your mates in a pub side.

Maybe he is seen as a players shop steward? You can give him the benefit of the doubt, and the story may be a load of rot despite having the hallmarks of another thing planted by the club on the media, but it feels to me that Parish is playing favourites again.

RAB
12-09-2017, 06:59 AM
Who knows what really went on? What is sure though is that FdB was wrong for Palace and a mistake was made in appointing him. The noise about it is because of all the known detail. The no points, no goals and confused playing system. Now the lack of public statement of support or even the expected refuting of stories of disharmony seem to confirm that very quickly the mistake was realised.

Awful though it looks, mistakes like this can happen and anyone who seriously dismisses the right of anyone to raise concern with the boss's boss should take a thought for a minute. Some would have been in similar situations in their own workplace.

I am not suggesting that FdB is Captain Queeg, but 'The Caine Mutiny' is an example of what can happen in a team situation.

I was excited with the appointment of FdB but there was one nagging doubt I had. In the past, Dutch teams have often been plagued with players falling out in the camp with each other and the managers which have impacted badly on their chances to win tournaments. Some strong individuals often do not suffer fools gladly. Gullitt's experience at Newcastle and Van Gaal more recently at Old Trafford.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 07:01 AM
Should've read this before I posted. Spot on.

Let's hope people see that and move on from this - we can't let what happened with FDB get in the way of everyone rallying round the club, starting on Saturday.

Chief Brody
12-09-2017, 07:03 AM
So whoever comes in has to indulge the egos of the likes of Delaney Kelly and Chong Yong lee in order to keep there job? Ridiculous. Also getting affronted because de Boer took part in a few training games? Pathetic. What a bunch of precious overindulged wankers

A bloke called Coppell used to take part in training matches. Was the best on the pitch apparently. He was a useless **** too.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:07 AM
Has anyone stopped and thought for a second that maybe de Boer was just a massive ****?! :confused:

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 07:07 AM
So what happens when the next manager realises that Delaney, Kelly, Ward are all not good enough... do they go crying to parish again. Pathetic.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 07:07 AM
If we had a team of Joel Wards we wouldn't be in this mess.

Or in this division!

He tries hard, and I like him for that, but he's a limited footballer and seemingly reached his peak 3 seasons ago.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:09 AM
So what happens when the next manager realises that Delaney, Kelly, Ward are all not good enough... do they go crying to parish again. Pathetic.

Have you thought it's not the fact he didn't think they were good enough, but perhaps the manner in which he went about stating that fact was the actual problem?

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:10 AM
Has anyone stopped and thought for a second that maybe de Boer was just a massive ****?! :confused:

If he was, what does that make Delaney, Kelly, Lee etc?

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 07:10 AM
Obviously you don't want out of control player power (Sunderland being the classic example) but when we have a good manager, a good shape, good tactics and proper training our team performs really well. I like this bunch of players - I think they want to win games. If they think the manager is preventing them from doing that I don't see any problem with bringing it to the board. They clearly could not play FdB's system...

The players didn't want to work for Allardyce either. He even came out and said as much, Parish even had to go in the dressing room and put a rocket up em, after yet another dreadful performance.

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:11 AM
So what happens when the next manager realises that Delaney, Kelly, Ward are all not good enough... do they go crying to parish again. Pathetic.

Maybe we should make Damo manager, he seems to want to undermine anyone else doing the job.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:11 AM
If he was, what does that make Delaney, Kelly, Lee etc?

People who dont like a ****. :moo:

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:12 AM
Or a bunch of primping twits who don;t like the truth.

Chief Brody
12-09-2017, 07:14 AM
For me, distilling all this shit down to something I can make sense of, is, de Boer made some ludicrous team selections. Square pegs in round holes, odd omissions and inconsistency.

If this was the result of all the unrest, I can kinda get it.

Something went majorly wrong between the introductory chats between him and Parish. Die diligence for 6 weeks my arse.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 07:15 AM
Have you thought it's not the fact he didn't think they were good enough, but perhaps the manner in which he went about stating that fact was the actual problem?

Ahh poor little spoilt millionaires. Pampered and allowed to do whatever they wanted under Pardew and didn't like a few home truths.

Have you actually thought that we took 5 weeks making a decision on the manager and this might have been known beforehand (if true). He has been a manager for 6/7 years with a track record and a style that is unlikely to have changed overnight.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:15 AM
Or a bunch of primping twits who don;t like the truth.

Like I said there is telling the truth and then there is making people look like and feeling like complete shit in front of their peers and team mates.

His man management is absolutely appalling.

Billy Rhino
12-09-2017, 07:18 AM
Townsend is a great example - give him a decent manager and a game plan and he gives everything for the cause. What is Benteke supposed to think of FdB's system?

Pulis gave every player a job and created a real team. Allardyce knew how to get the best out of big egos and play our team to its strengths.

This is football at the top level - you have to have a manager who can manage premier league footballers...

Well at least Benteke is consistent. He makes no effort regardless of who the manager is.

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:20 AM
Like I said there is telling the truth and then there is making people look like and feeling like complete shit in front of their peers and team mates.

His man management is absolutely appalling.

How do you know he said it the way it's been alleged? How do you know it's not just the players running to SP whining that the "nasty man was horrid to me"?

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:21 AM
How do you know he said it the way it's been alleged? How do you know it's not just the players running to SP whining that the "nasty man was horrid to me"?

Because this seems to be a recurring theme with de Boer now.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 07:22 AM
How do you know he said it the way it's been alleged? How do you know it's not just the players running to SP whining that the "nasty man was horrid to me"?

Because the Parish mouthpiece Neil Ashton in the rag says so

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 07:26 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/19/frank-de-boer-inter-era-europa-league-southampton

Loafster
12-09-2017, 07:27 AM
This is not Parish or the players fault.
Most have given their all for 5 seasons in the Prem.
Then some mad as a box of frogs Dutchman comes along and systematically destroys the whole set up of the team, harmony of the club and splits the fan base, is just meant to be left alone to get on with it, resulting in 0 points, 0 goals and relegation.
When you have a cancer you find it early and cut it out.
Thank god it was found early and we have plenty of time to recover.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 07:30 AM
This is not Parish or the players fault.


Who the **** employed him after 5 weeks due diligence. This is totally parish's fault

BillyTKid
12-09-2017, 07:32 AM
This is not Parish or the players fault.
Most have given their all for 5 seasons in the Prem.
Then some mad as a box of frogs Dutchman comes along and systematically destroys the whole set up of the team, harmony of the club and splits the fan base, is just meant to be left alone to get on with it, resulting in 0 points, 0 goals and relegation.
When you have a cancer you find it early and cut it out.
Thank god it was found early and we have plenty of time to recover.

These players haven't had the bottle to win games at home for three seasons and under a number of managers. There is something wrong and it can't all be FDBs fault he has only been with us for five minutes.

Martin H
12-09-2017, 07:54 AM
The no smoke without fire thing is not always true but we have surely had so much smoke you have to believe there is a fire somewhere now surely. It started at least with Ollie and surfaced with any Manager that has stayed around, rather than walked early. I am not ITK but don't doubt this has happened before DeBoer and players should have been moved on by now.

The other thing is that people seriously underestimate how impactful the difference between a liked or an unliked boss can be, the former can be forgiven anything, the latter criticised for everything. When I say liked, I mean at a very basic level. Looks, accent, smiles, expressions, voice, tone. The other thing I would throw in is that having worked in a global business the differences in work cultures is pretty extreme. Particularly around how Manager staff relationships work and communicate.

Chief Brody
12-09-2017, 07:54 AM
These players haven't had the bottle to win games at home for three seasons and under a number of managers. There is something wrong and it can't all be FDBs fault he has only been with us for five minutes.

This.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 07:55 AM
Maybe we should make Damo manager, he seems to want to undermine anyone else doing the job.

All rumours. Bit harsh to hang out Damo like this for FDB's failings.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 08:00 AM
Interesting that Fifield said "Other players, it should be said, had no such complaints and felt they were steadily growing accustomed to his demands. The corner would be turned."

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 08:06 AM
Interesting that Fifield said "Other players, it should be said, had no such complaints and felt they were steadily growing accustomed to his demands. The corner would be turned."

Other players could mean 2 players, 11 players or 20 players.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 08:10 AM
Other players could mean 2 players, 11 players or 20 players.

Or maybe first team players who actually had a future at the club rather than some that are well past their sell by date and had been handed new contracts by the chairman?

eagleborn
12-09-2017, 08:22 AM
Or maybe first team players who actually had a future at the club rather than some that are well past their sell by date and had been handed new contracts by the chairman?

I don't think there are many players here with a future at the club if we go down.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 08:25 AM
I don't think there are many players here with a future at the club if we go down.

Very true - ironically it will be those that deBoer tried to get rid of that probably will have a future as they will be back at their level.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 08:28 AM
The no smoke without fire thing is not always true but we have surely had so much smoke you have to believe there is a fire somewhere now surely. It started at least with Ollie and surfaced with any Manager that has stayed around, rather than walked early. I am not ITK but don't doubt this has happened before DeBoer and players should have been moved on by now.

The other thing is that people seriously underestimate how impactful the difference between a liked or an unliked boss can be, the former can be forgiven anything, the latter criticised for everything. When I say liked, I mean at a very basic level. Looks, accent, smiles, expressions, voice, tone. The other thing I would throw in is that having worked in a global business the differences in work cultures is pretty extreme. Particularly around how Manager staff relationships work and communicate.

Parish liked Pardew, and he had over half a season too long, was allowed to shift deadwood, and break our transfer record several times over.

Parish didn't like de Boer it seems, he was given 4 games, wasn't allowed to move anyone he didnt want and was allowed to buy just 1 player he wanted.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 08:33 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/19/frank-de-boer-inter-era-europa-league-southampton

He was on a hiding to nothing the moment he went in, no pre season, couldn't speak the language, players clashing with fans, owners expecting Champions League qualification.

Inter haven't exactly pulled up any trees since then either.

winners
12-09-2017, 08:44 AM
Not sure why Delaney is being singled out, he wasn't one of the players making mistakes that cost us goals, or missed seemingly easy chances.

We have made so many mistakes that have gifted goals, and missed so many chances, that I cannot accept it being a co-incidence. I can think of at least 7 players that have started the season umbelievably poorly. some may call this player power, and others may call it bad management, the players are the only asset really that matter for a football manager, so its a major part of the job to get these players playing for you, buying into your idea's, and having a togetherness...Frank obviously failed at this majorly, so better to get rid now, whilst we still have time to turn our season around.

Gregz41
12-09-2017, 08:49 AM
Some blame lies at the door of all parties.

In summary, FdB should have been given more time to fix things on the basis of that Burnley game. However, his initial approach was naive at best.

The board neglected reinforcing vital areas of the squad till the last day, ultimately missing out.

The players appear to have too much power. Saying Kelly, Delaney, CYL and Ward are surplus to requirements isn't that outrageous. Could Frank have handled it better than how it was handled reportedly? Yes, probably, but if we're to grow as a club then some players will be left behind. From memory, Delaney got a new deal after Sam had left. It's this kind of sentimental nonsense which restricts us.

Quite frankly, considering their ability, a lot of these players are lucky to be playing PL football so regularly on relatively large wages considering their role in the squad. Delaney, Kelly, Ward, Mutch, Sako, Hennessey, Lee and Puncheon wouldn't get a better club than Palace.

gilesy14
12-09-2017, 08:50 AM
All rumours. Bit harsh to hang out Damo like this for FDB's failings.

It's not rumour. This is the 4th manager he hasn't liked & has seen off. Why do you think he was awarded a one year extension when we have about 8 centre halves? He is the boards eyes & ears at the training ground.

Best example is Delaney with Warnock. He hated him. Remember the Chelsea match when he was determined to get sent off? I've never seen anything like it & after that, I'd never label him a legend.

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 08:53 AM
All rumours. Bit harsh to hang out Damo like this for FDB's failings.

We're hanging FdB out over rumours....what's the difference?

eagle-leg
12-09-2017, 08:58 AM
Blimey, it's almost as if the BBS is saying, everybody at the club from players, staff, management and board are all complete *****. I'm just waiting to hear a rumour suggesting the kids selling the programs are spitting phlegm in the middle or the bar staff are putting toenails in beer.

Indeed. You wonder why some bother supporting at all of its all that bad.

It also seems that some have never worked for an arrogant clueless boss who annoyed everybody in their team.

Easy to say they should just get on with it.

Far easier for the club to change a manager that all the players.

eagle-leg
12-09-2017, 09:14 AM
A bloke called Coppell used to take part in training matches. Was the best on the pitch apparently. He was a useless **** too.

The difference is that coppell and zola (who also used to do it at watford) are likeable humble guys.

Wheras De Boer and Hoddle are just two very arrogant alpha male characters.

De Boer in 10 weeks at the club managed to fall out with the players, the hierarchy and also the clubs well respected first team coach.

Yet some of yoy would portray FDB as aninnocent victim in club politics and would get rid of the players and the club owners.

Baffled.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 09:17 AM
Inter haven't exactly pulled up any trees since then either.

Inter were 17th when he was sacked. Pioli came in and took the same group of players up to 3rd / 4th at one point and he didn't have a pre season and was still expected to reach the Champions League. The only player Inter added in January was Gagliardini, everyone needs to face up to the fact that he is an abrasive, arrogant tosser and this was the right decision no matter how it was reached.

de Boer is a busted flush. If I was any club inside the top 5 leagues in Europe I wouldn't go near him with a barge pole.

Bones14
12-09-2017, 09:18 AM
If true about the players, I hope one day they go into management and face the same issue. Will give them a real sense of how hard a job it is and you cant no matter how hard you try, please every player.
I really hope the tail isn't wagging the dog here.

CPFC.1990
12-09-2017, 09:29 AM
I see what you mean but Delaney is right up there for me. He was immense in the promotion year and then early premier league years. Legend/hero - whatever you want to call it, he has made a major contribution to the club's history.

Delaney's behaviour of late has left a bitter taste in the mouth of many Palace fans. To be honest I dislike him as much as I do Chris Coleman. Got a VERY bad attitude.

CPFC.1990
12-09-2017, 09:31 AM
All rumours. Bit harsh to hang out Damo like this for FDB's failings.

The BOARD'S failings.

How any sane person can blame anyone but the board for this farce is beyond me.

CPFC.1990
12-09-2017, 09:32 AM
We're hanging FdB out over rumours....what's the difference?

Mr Palace has an agenda.

Fatboy
12-09-2017, 09:32 AM
I would draw a slight parallel with us and Leicester's situation with Ranieri when they struggled and eventually got rid of him.

Immediately Leicester bounced back and I will be expecting the same from our players - Though we don't have any Champions in our squad !

eagle-leg
12-09-2017, 09:36 AM
If true about the players, I hope one day they go into management and face the same issue. Will give them a real sense of how hard a job it is and you cant no matter how hard you try, please every player.
I really hope the tail isn't wagging the dog here.

Or perhaps they will realise that you cannot go into a new club; treat well liked established pros with contempt and exepect everybody to come along for the ride.

eagle-leg
12-09-2017, 09:37 AM
I would draw a slight parallel with us and Leicester's situation with Ranieri when they struggled and eventually got rid of him.

Immediately Leicester bounced back and I will be expecting the same from our players - Though we don't have any Champions in our squad !

Dont forget Schlupp

Fatboy
12-09-2017, 09:49 AM
Dont forget Schlupp

Ah Yes.

Somebody remind him again why he signed for us !!
:D

bodger
12-09-2017, 09:52 AM
I do not believe any of our players have given less then their best for FDB they may have been unhappy and that will cause a drop in form no way do they miss chances or make mistakes on purpose. DD is a leader if he sees his mates being muged off he is bound to speak up and so he should he has fought tooth and nail for us we need fighters like him in our team if we are to get out of this mess. FDB has gone its put our club in a bad light do we care? no not if we start winning games it will be forgotten.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 09:58 AM
Inter were 17th when he was sacked. Pioli came in and took the same group of players up to 3rd / 4th at one point and he didn't have a pre season and was still expected to reach the Champions League. The only player Inter added in January was Gagliardini, everyone needs to face up to the fact that he is an abrasive, arrogant tosser and this was the right decision no matter how it was reached.

de Boer is a busted flush. If I was any club inside the top 5 leagues in Europe I wouldn't go near him with a barge pole.

By 17th you mean 12th? Cause they were 12th when he was sacked.... they finished 7th not 3rd or 4th, so ultimately the next guy failed as well? He might not have had a pre season, but he did have a 10 game head start on getting players to match fitness, which de Boer didnt.

Fact? Or opinion based on little 'fact'?

Sure he may have gone about things the wrong way, but the only reason we are hearing this is because the Palace board and media are having to paint him in a worse light than themselves to justify sacking a manager after 4 games!!

We are a joke to the world of football right now. Now we might not care, I don't care what others think, just what I think, yet the club and the board do, enough to leak information like this to the press, whilst de Boer remains professional and tight lipped....the only tossers on show are all seemingly still here, all ready for the next manager to fall foul of.

Parish has got too involved with the playing side of the club, and they have seemingly they have gained too much 'control' of the management of it, he should just ask who the players want and be done with it.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 10:02 AM
I would draw a slight parallel with us and Leicester's situation with Ranieri when they struggled and eventually got rid of him.

Immediately Leicester bounced back and I will be expecting the same from our players - Though we don't have any Champions in our squad !

Bounce back to what though? We'd lost 4 out of the 5 before de Boer joined, including against Burnley, in a worse performance than we saw Saturday?

Bouncing back to playing shit and losing, doesn't look like much needs to change.

Latvian Eagle
12-09-2017, 10:02 AM
By 17th you mean 12th? Cause they were 12th when he was sacked.... they finished 7th not 3rd or 4th, so ultimately the next guy failed as well? He might not have had a pre season, but he did have a 10 game head start on getting players to match fitness, which de Boer didnt.

Fact? Or opinion based on little 'fact'?

Sure he may have gone about things the wrong way, but the only reason we are hearing this is because the Palace board and media are having to paint him in a worse light than themselves to justify sacking a manager after 4 games!!

We are a joke to the world of football right now. Now we might not care, I don't care what others think, just what I think, yet the club and the board do, enough to leak information like this to the press, whilst de Boer remains professional and tight lipped....the only tossers on show are all seemingly still here, all ready for the next manager to fall foul of.

Parish has got too involved with the playing side of the club, and they have seemingly they have gained too much 'control' of the management of it, he should just ask who the players want and be done with it.

I didn't say they finished 3rd or 4th. I said they reached up to about there with the same players.

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 10:02 AM
Mr Palace has an agenda.

Well I wish he'd put it away instead of waving it around in peoples faces, thats just rude.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 10:04 AM
I do not believe any of our players have given less then their best for FDB they may have been unhappy and that will cause a drop in form no way do they miss chances or make mistakes on purpose. DD is a leader if he sees his mates being muged off he is bound to speak up and so he should he has fought tooth and nail for us we need fighters like him in our team if we are to get out of this mess. FDB has gone its put our club in a bad light do we care? no not if we start winning games it will be forgotten.

Mugged off the same players that have been in relgation battles for 4 straight seasons. We need more than just fighters like Delaney etc. as we are getting worse and worse every season with the same group.

Bones14
12-09-2017, 10:06 AM
Or perhaps they will realise that you cannot go into a new club; treat well liked established pros with contempt and exepect everybody to come along for the ride.

Or perhaps those in question should act like established pros and put their head down and work their arses off to get in the team.
Last time 2 of em played side by side they conceded 5 goals. Tells you a fair bit I'd reckon.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 10:09 AM
I didn't say they finished 3rd or 4th. I said they reached up to about there with the same players.

I know, I was saying they didn't stay 3rd/4th.

Same players then went from 3rd/4th back down to 7th? It was about the comment I made about them not pulling up trees since. The season ends when it ends and that's what's judged, not when you were at the highest point, and finishing 7th suggests what I said.

Pardew would still be here if the highest position any point during a season made one jot of a difference, we were 5th at one point with the same players that finished 15th.

Fatboy
12-09-2017, 10:11 AM
Bounce back to what though? We'd lost 4 out of the 5 before de Boer joined, including against Burnley, in a worse performance than we saw Saturday?

Bouncing back to playing shit and losing, doesn't like much needs to change.

The Palace with Sakho in the team. The 3-0 Arsenal win needs to be played again and again to the players to remind them of what they can do as a team.

We need to forget (if we can) the last two months and push on together with a positive frame of mind.

We cannot afford to implode again.

Sharkba1t
12-09-2017, 10:14 AM
So what happens when the next manager realises that Delaney, Kelly, Ward are all not good enough... do they go crying to parish again. Pathetic.

What about Chungy? Don't forget that useless bellend.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 10:14 AM
The Palace with Sakho in the team.

We need to forget (if we can) the last two months and push on together with a positive frame of mind.

We cannot afford to implode again.

The Sakho that de Boer wanted to integrate earlier and never even got to use?

We've won 3 games since the 5th of April, 13 games! and de Boer is being lynched for his part in 4 of them. It's a joke.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 10:17 AM
It's not rumour. This is the 4th manager he hasn't liked & has seen off. Why do you think he was awarded a one year extension when we have about 8 centre halves? He is the boards eyes & ears at the training ground.

Best example is Delaney with Warnock. He hated him. Remember the Chelsea match when he was determined to get sent off? I've never seen anything like it & after that, I'd never label him a legend.

But he knows he will barely play this season regardless of who the manager is. It doesn't stack up for me. I'm not saying he's been an angel but this isn't his fault.

gilesy14
12-09-2017, 10:19 AM
But he knows he will barely play this season regardless of who the manager is. It doesn't stack up for me. I'm not saying he's been an angel but this isn't his fault.

I'm not saying this is all his fault, that would be nuts. But I doubt he made life easy for FdB.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 10:19 AM
Mr Palace has an agenda.

I've only just seen your stupid emails. How do I have an agenda? Because I have a different opinion to you? it's called an OPINION you numpty.

For the record, I don't blame the board or Delaney - I blame FDB. But I don't think the board has covered itself in glory one bit. Now, is that an agenda or an opinion?

By the way, I'm Damien Delaney of course...

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 10:20 AM
I'm not saying this is all his fault, that would be nuts. But I doubt he made life easy for FdB.

I don't think FDB made life easy for himself. He didn't learn from his experience at Inter sadly.

jimmy the gent
12-09-2017, 10:24 AM
The players who bar Zaha have been on the whole shite for the past 20 months.

This is the mercurial talents of Martin Kelly, Damien Delaney, Chong Yong Lee, and Joel Ward we're talking about here. Artists with a football, one and all.

CPFC.1990
12-09-2017, 10:26 AM
I've only just seen your stupid emails. How do I have an agenda? Because I have a different opinion to you? it's called an OPINION you numpty.

For the record, I don't blame the board or Delaney - I blame FDB. But I don't think the board has covered itself in glory one bit. Now, is that an agenda or an opinion?

By the way, I'm Damien Delaney of course...

The fact you blame FdB when it was the board who appointed him, didn't back him and sacked him after 4 games says it all really.

Sharkba1t
12-09-2017, 10:26 AM
Blimey, it's almost as if the BBS is saying, everybody at the club from players, staff, management and board are all complete *****. I'm just waiting to hear a rumour suggesting the kids selling the programs are spitting phlegm in the middle or the bar staff are putting toenails in beer.

There is no chance the bar staff would do such a thing. The club would have to employ 50% more staff to do that. Once person to cut said toenails, another one to pour the beer, a third one to put the toenail in the beer and the fourth one to take the money.
They wouldn't even prepare properly - any decent bar staff would have a whole pile of toenails lined up next to already pulled pints just before half time.

Not our mob though.

Maidstoned Eagle
12-09-2017, 10:26 AM
By the way, I'm Damien Delaney of course...

Have you been to the Mods and said that CPFC.1990 isn't being very nice to you?

IanH
12-09-2017, 10:28 AM
My view on the players is that their confidence was shattered playing under Pardew when we lost so many games in that 40 odd game spell over two half seasons. They have never recovered from that. The big wins under Sam against Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool were more like old style FA Cup performances where the players lifted themselves above their usual standard because of the opposition. They still lost to Sunderland, Swansea, Burnley under Sam. My fear is that whoever comes in as manager could struggle with the current group of players. Their mentality is the issue - they seem resigned to losing in games (playing the Man U kids last season, Huddersfield, Swansea, Burnley etc). The only recent game they looked okay in was Liverpool where we could have won if Benteke puts in that sitter on 70 odd minutes.

bodger
12-09-2017, 10:31 AM
Mugged off the same players that have been in relgation battles for 4 straight seasons. We need more than just fighters like Delaney etc. as we are getting worse and worse every season with the same group.

Man management is about getting the best out of what you have got not putting them down in front of their team mates. Now some players will fight back to prove you wrong others will lose self belief. FDB new in a job had to earn respect not put players down. We have a very average bench at the moment we need all of the players ready mentally to do a job FDB failed to do this.

CPFC.1990
12-09-2017, 10:32 AM
Have you been to the Mods and said that CPFC.1990 isn't being very nice to you?

Ahhh, so he's the one...

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 10:38 AM
Man management is about getting the best out of what you have got not putting them down in front of their team mates. Now some players will fight back to prove you wrong others will lose self belief. FDB new in a job had to earn respect not put players down. We have a very average bench at the moment we need all of the players ready mentally to do a job FDB failed to do this.

Our bench might not look as average if the players not good enough were moved on as with most other clubs and replaced with slightly better?

How he did that is hearsay and what Palace are reporting to the media to make them look far better to the outside world. 'Hey, he was the bad guy, he was mean to X, Y, Z' .

No, words of how he did it, what he said, did, just that some players didn't like it. Making Joel Ward observe a RWB playing RWB and asking him to repeat the good and don't do the bad seems fine to me? Unless he said 'Oi Wardy, your shit at RWB, watch this kid do it better than you, hahaha, see, you couldn't control it or pass it to your team mate 5 yards away like that 7 year old can' but so far, nothing has been said about how he did anything at all, nothing, nish, nada, zip.

Sure something has gone on, but Palace planting all this smacks of covering their own failings, and no doubt paying de Boer a fat wedge to take the rap, and when the dust settles for us, and he wants a new job, he will be able to reveal his side. It's bollox.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 10:42 AM
Have you been to the Mods and said that CPFC.1990 isn't being very nice to you?

:D

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 10:44 AM
The fact you blame FdB when it was the board who appointed him, didn't back him and sacked him after 4 games says it all really.

I think FDB has made a lot of bad mistakes in a short period - many of which are baffling in terms of team selection and tactical approach. And all the signs seem to point to a breakdown in the relationship between FDB and the board and FDB and a lot of the players. It's not just four games either - it's the whole of pre-season and two months where he clearly wasn't performing.

So I will back the board over FDB any day of the week - though i don't think the board are beyond criticism as they have not covered themselves in glory at all on this one.

brighton_eagle
12-09-2017, 10:45 AM
It isn't the first time

No, it isn't. And it seems to be the same name(s). I've thought for a while that certain players have too much influence.

NickinOx
12-09-2017, 10:45 AM
This is the mercurial talents of Martin Kelly, Damien Delaney, Chong Yong Lee, and Joel Ward we're talking about here. Artists with a football, one and all.

Dadaism or abstract expressionism spring to mind.

brighton_eagle
12-09-2017, 10:46 AM
Posted by Wilf last Thursday. In fairness it worked we went 4-3-3 against Burnley apparently against de Boer's wishes if media are to be believed.

Which you assume we would have been training on all week.

mb23
12-09-2017, 10:47 AM
Whether the players revolted or not, now this information is out the pressure is very much on them now to knuckle down and perform under the new regime. Do they have the bottle for the task? The lack of leaders in this team tells me possibly not, although they will be boosted massively when Wilf, TLC and Sakho come back.

Nostrils
12-09-2017, 10:47 AM
There is no chance the bar staff would do such a thing. The club would have to employ 50% more staff to do that. Once person to cut said toenails, another one to pour the beer, a third one to put the toenail in the beer and the fourth one to take the money.
They wouldn't even prepare properly - any decent bar staff would have a whole pile of toenails lined up next to already pulled pints just before half time.

Not our mob though.
[emoji3]

Celestial Empire
12-09-2017, 10:48 AM
The (so-called) sports journos are all over Palace at the moment, in the absence of anything much else to talk about, displaying their ignorance of Palace with every line they write.
Now they've started a juicy yarn about "player power" (BTW, EVERY sacked Dutch manager blames "player power" - see van Gaal).

It's really no shock that the usual suspects on here have swallowed this crap, hook, line and sinker.:S:

jimmy the gent
12-09-2017, 10:51 AM
Dadaism or abstract expressionism spring to mind.

Mostly their performances on the pitch resemble Tracy Emins bed

brighton_eagle
12-09-2017, 10:58 AM
Why do people think Pardew got rid of Jedinak as soon as he could? He had a lot of influence in the dressing room and was disenchanted. Damo probably should have gone too. He certainly shouldn't have been offered a contract extension in the summer when we didn't have a manager. He's not going to feature so why extend his contract?

Billyd
12-09-2017, 10:59 AM
So De Boer plays a system that my 1 year old know wont work with the players we have. Loses 3 nothing to Huddesfield at home. Then does it again. Plays players out of position. Plays Lee instead of Luka. Puncheon plays every week despite being so short of confidence he looks about league 1.

Parish hires a manager and doesnt back him at all. Then sacks him after the only half decent performance. Goes to Ashton and Maylon to spread unrest in the media over De Boers futures. Approaches Hogdson several days ago.

Between them they dont sign a keeper despite our current number 1 being the worst in the top 2 divisions. Start the season with 1 senior striker.

The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players? Laughable.

Has Gilsey been on yet to tell us a very good 'source' tells him it was Delaney at fault?

brighton_eagle
12-09-2017, 11:03 AM
The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players?

I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.

Zulu84
12-09-2017, 11:18 AM
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.

To a point and I know they are paid vast sums to be professionals etc but when 90 percent of Palace supporters could see FdB was doing something that wouldn't work with our players we can hardly then be surprised and outraged that this happened.

Eaglesfan1
12-09-2017, 11:20 AM
The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.

Wandle_Eagle
12-09-2017, 11:43 AM
The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.

Excuse me...this isn't the thread for such a sensible post.

glaziers fan
12-09-2017, 11:46 AM
Or maybe first team players who actually had a future at the club rather than some that are well past their sell by date and had been handed new contracts by the chairman?

Exactly. The ones who deserved to be in the XI. The issue is not player power, the issue is player power emanating from fringe players no longer good enough to wear the shirt. If the top players want to have player power I don't have a problem with it. The fringe players need to pipe down and let the manager choose the best XI. The likes of Delaney and Puncheon need to stop throwing their toys out of the pram when they are not picked.

Kidofwonder
12-09-2017, 11:55 AM
If we had a team of Joel Wards we wouldn't be in this mess.

we'd be in League 1 :D

Georgie Boy
12-09-2017, 11:57 AM
The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.

I guess we'll never really find out but I wouldn't be surprised if FdB went to Parish early on and said something like 'half these players are absolute shite, they need to go'. Clash of egos from there on.

FdB may have come across as a bit of a dick but I guess all he wanted was a team to string some passes together and try and get the odd goal to maybe win a game. Instead he got 4-5 individual errors and the other teams took advantage.

NickinOx
12-09-2017, 11:58 AM
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.

And these are the same players who have not performed, excepting an 8 game spell last season, since Christmas 2015. Three managers, same crappy results excepting one short spell with a stand out loan player.

Leopald Stotch
12-09-2017, 11:59 AM
Why do people think Pardew got rid of Jedinak as soon as he could? He had a lot of influence in the dressing room and was disenchanted. Damo probably should have gone too. He certainly shouldn't have been offered a contract extension in the summer when we didn't have a manager. He's not going to feature so why extend his contract?

And, as it happened, turned out to have a point! Maybe if a few others had stood up to be counted, Pardew would have waved goodye after the FA cup final.
There will always be outspoken people in a dressing room. The manager needs to manage them. For all anybody knows, Damo may well have been the mouthpiece, but this could be on the back of many of the other players informing him of discontent. Until we get the definative story then it is all speculation.
I would also add that a lot of the players understand the culture of the club better than FDB. We have an identity- I don't understand the need to change it! And if this is on the back of a SP directive, then he should have backed the manager with players that know that system.
I don't blame any of the players- they are entitled to have opinions on the style of football they are being directed to play. I don't blame FDB- I thgink he was sold a complete pup.
I have (unlike many) never been publicly critical of SP. However, since BFS left, I think he has made a series of increasingly poor decisions.

Lombardo's hair
12-09-2017, 12:01 PM
I find it odd that there is always a reason to blame the manager. FDB gets hammered for paying players out of position. Exactly who was that then? Played CYL in a wide position but he's seen as taking Lukas place? Was he not dropped for being poor and replaced by YC or JM? Haven't the defence played like conference defenders? Note that the defenders were actually defenders. Not midfielders playing total football. If this is a result of players moaning then they should go. Puncheon should be worried as maybe a new manager will realise how poor he's been and drop him. Let him whinge about that. People make so many excuses for this shower it is embarrassing. We haven't got the players to playing passing football? WTF! If that's the case then they should have a wage cut useless t****.

Lombardo's hair
12-09-2017, 12:11 PM
And, as it happened, turned out to have a point! Maybe if a few others had stood up to be counted, Pardew would have waved goodye after the FA cup final.
There will always be outspoken people in a dressing room. The manager needs to manage them. For all anybody knows, Damo may well have been the mouthpiece, but this could be on the back of many of the other players informing him of discontent. Until we get the definative story then it is all speculation.
I would also add that a lot of the players understand the culture of the club better than FDB. We have an identity- I don't understand the need to change it! And if this is on the back of a SP directive, then he should have backed the manager with players that know that system.
I don't blame any of the players- they are entitled to have opinions on the style of football they are being directed to play. I don't blame FDB- I thgink he was sold a complete pup.
I have (unlike many) never been publicly critical of SP. However, since BFS left, I think he has made a series of increasingly poor decisions.

What.....understand the culture if the club. What is that then? Fighting relegation every year followed by a good season when we get promoted and then fighting relegation till we get relegated. Then going into liquidation and praying someone will save us. Playing tedious football with the odd good performance. Losing at home most weeks? Wow it's a good job FDB has gone wouldn't want him changing the club's culture and messing with our DNA. We resemble Sunderland right now. They had a rotten core. We seem to have too. They look in total disarray at present and I believe we are following them. SP is too willing to employ ex cpfc players who seem to see it as a jolly.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 12:18 PM
We've got a very strong first 11, with strong back up at right back, left back, centre back and central midfield. We have limited cover up front (nothing), on the wing and in goal.

But any manager worth their salt should have got 5 points minimum from the four games we have started with. If FDB had of continued with the approach we had last season and gradually evolved it, I'm convinced we would have a minimum of 5 points now.

The manager is absolutely fundamental in applying a system, formation and tactical approach. FDB was all over the place. He really wasn't impressive at all.

Leopald Stotch
12-09-2017, 12:29 PM
What.....understand the culture if the club. What is that then? Fighting relegation every year followed by a good season when we get promoted and then fighting relegation till we get relegated. Then going into liquidation and praying someone will save us. Playing tedious football with the odd good performance. Losing at home most weeks? Wow it's a good job FDB has gone wouldn't want him changing the club's culture and messing with our DNA. We resemble Sunderland right now. They had a rotten core. We seem to have too. They look in total disarray at present and I believe we are following them. SP is too willing to employ ex cpfc players who seem to see it as a jolly.

You seem to be confusing 'culture' with 'performance'.

For your benifit,

Culture. noun the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

I would suggest the history you have detailed has more to do with a succesion of poor management appointments. I would support this by suggesting that in the same time period, you should look at our performance under certain mangers who seemed to be able to motivate the same group of players to perform.

NickinOx
12-09-2017, 12:29 PM
We've got a very strong first 11, with strong back up at right back, left back, centre back and central midfield. We have limited cover up front (nothing), on the wing and in goal.

But any manager worth their salt should have got 5 points minimum from the four games we have started with. If FDB had of continued with the approach we had last season and gradually evolved it, I'm convinced we would have a minimum of 5 points now.

The manager is absolutely fundamental in applying a system, formation and tactical approach. FDB was all over the place. He really wasn't impressive at all.

Allardyce averaged 0.77 points per game without Sakho. Would he be good enough? What about Pardew who averaged .88 points per game last season? This idea, that some un-named manager would stroll in and get this bunch actually playing winning football is belied by the actual results (excepting a short spell last season) from the last 21 months.

Sam, who did a good job for us, talked openly of how this group of players did not listen or follow his instructions until after the Sunderland loss. That's seven league games where, in essence, they ignored him.

That tells me, that irrespective of the qualities (or lack of them) of FdB, there are far deeper issues in the team and squad.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 12:34 PM
So De Boer plays a system that my 1 year old know wont work with the players we have. Loses 3 nothing to Huddesfield at home. Then does it again. Plays players out of position. Plays Lee instead of Luka. Puncheon plays every week despite being so short of confidence he looks about league 1.

Parish hires a manager and doesnt back him at all. Then sacks him after the only half decent performance. Goes to Ashton and Maylon to spread unrest in the media over De Boers futures. Approaches Hogdson several days ago.

Between them they dont sign a keeper despite our current number 1 being the worst in the top 2 divisions. Start the season with 1 senior striker.

The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players? Laughable.

Has Gilsey been on yet to tell us a very good 'source' tells him it was Delaney at fault?

I know Chungy is shit, but his error Sunday should still be blamed on a player...

Lombardo's hair
12-09-2017, 12:35 PM
You seem to be confusing 'culture' with 'performance'.

For your benifit,

Culture. noun the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

I would suggest the history you have detailed has more to do with a succesion of poor management appointments. I would support this by suggesting that in the same time period, you should look at our performance under certain mangers who seemed to be able to motivate the same group of players to perform.

I do not need a n explanation of culture. Please explain what the club's culture is if it isn't the team. Is it the fan base? Is it it's involvement in the community. Having social events. Because I an bemused. The only culture I see is a team that underperforms anfd doesn't like innovation. The culture if a spoilt lazy incompetent generation. What is our culture please educate me1

tsunamiman
12-09-2017, 12:35 PM
FWIW I think we're still suffering from a hangover from the pardew era.

Look how long it's taken Newcastle to recover. Had to get relegated and still havent got rid of all the dross.

jimmy the gent
12-09-2017, 12:37 PM
Allardyce averaged 0.77 points per game without Sakho. Would he be good enough? What about Pardew who averaged .88 points per game last season? This idea, that some un-named manager would stroll in and get this bunch actually playing winning football is belied by the actual results (excepting a short spell last season) from the last 21 months.

Sam, who did a good job for us, talked openly of how this group of players did not listen or follow his instructions until after the Sunderland loss. That's seven league games where, in essence, they ignored him.

That tells me, that irrespective of the qualities (or lack of them) of FdB, there are far deeper issues in the team and squad.

The squad is a mess largely due to us having changed manager every five minutes for the last 6 years. It's what was so disappointing about Sam leaving, i really thought he was the strong leader we needed to kick the squad into shape. Seems to me that bringing in Dougie, who no doubt is close to Ward, Delaney and perhaps some of their clique, would only empower that group. Quite why their concerns are being given such credence is beyond me, give they are fringe squad players at best.

I'm behind the Roy appointment, but he certainly isnt the strong long term leader we need. Just another stop-gap, and the only realistic sensible one i can see. having paid off de boer's handsome contract, i cant see the club paying another club to poach an employed manager, anyway.

weltklasse
12-09-2017, 12:38 PM
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.

Too true

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 12:39 PM
You seem to be confusing 'culture' with 'performance'.

For your benifit,

Culture. noun the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

I would suggest the history you have detailed has more to do with a succesion of poor management appointments. I would support this by suggesting that in the same time period, you should look at our performance under certain mangers who seemed to be able to motivate the same group of players to perform.

We've performed for an 8 game spell in the best part of 1 and a half years, under 3 different managers :supergrin:

We've won 14 games since 19 December 2015. 63 games!!!

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 12:42 PM
FWIW I think we're still suffering from a hangover from the pardew era.

Look how long it's taken Newcastle to recover. Had to get relegated and still havent got rid of all the dross.

This is it for me.

Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool papered over cracks and closed peoples minds to everything before then, and is being used as a stick to beat down everything since.

NickinOx
12-09-2017, 12:44 PM
The squad is a mess largely due to us having changed manager every five minutes for the last 6 years. It's what was so disappointing about Sam leaving, i really thought he was the strong leader we needed to kick the squad into shape. Seems to me that bringing in Dougie, who no doubt is close to Ward, Delaney and perhaps some of their clique, would only empower that group. Quite why their concerns are being given such credence is beyond me, give they are fringe squad players at best.

I'm behind the Roy appointment, but he certainly isnt the strong long term leader we need. Just another stop-gap, and the only realistic sensible one i can see. having paid off de boer's handsome contract, i cant see the club paying another club to poach an employed manager, anyway.

Spot on. I was genuinely looking forward to this season before Sam resigned.

I found the comments in the last few weeks by the couple of players who spoke out to support FdB interesting. McArthur made it clear things were different, but that the players were figuring it out and would come good.

As for the fringe players seemingly dictating things behind the scenes (or at least having a say out of proportion to their importance), that rhymes with Sam's comments about the players not listening or following instructions for weeks. I suspect whomever comes in will struggle to get decent results (particularly if there are any injuries or suspensions) and the players will again escape responsibility for the crap they have delivered over the last 21 months. Hopefully I will be wrong.

Chris K
12-09-2017, 12:49 PM
I think the fact you had Luka giving the first murmurs of discontent when they were in Hong Kong speaks volumes.

It'll be interesting to see if what sort of response we get from the players on saturday

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 12:50 PM
I find it odd that there is always a reason to blame the manager. FDB gets hammered for paying players out of position. Exactly who was that then? Played CYL in a wide position but he's seen as taking Lukas place? Was he not dropped for being poor and replaced by YC or JM? Haven't the defence played like conference defenders? Note that the defenders were actually defenders. Not midfielders playing total football. If this is a result of players moaning then they should go. Puncheon should be worried as maybe a new manager will realise how poor he's been and drop him. Let him whinge about that. People make so many excuses for this shower it is embarrassing. We haven't got the players to playing passing football? WTF! If that's the case then they should have a wage cut useless t****.

Well said. Although Puncheon need not worry as Parish will be writing it into Roy's contract that he starts every game.

Zohar's Penalty
12-09-2017, 12:52 PM
This is it for me.

Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool papered over cracks and closed peoples minds to everything before then, and is being used as a stick to beat down everything since.

Nah, we also beat the likes of Boro, Bournemouth, West Brom, Hull, Watford since Pardew. The squad is good enough, although scarily thin, so if we can stay clear of injuries we should be competitive. We have just wasted 2 home games pissing about, and then been unlucky with two away games.

If we just get a semi competent Manager, line up 4-4-3, and stay injury free until January, then we will be ok, it really is that simple.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 12:56 PM
Nah, we also beat the likes of Boro, Bournemouth, West Brom, Hull, Watford since Pardew. The squad is good enough, although scarily thin, so if we can stay clear of injuries we should be competitive. We have just wasted 2 home games pissing about, and then been unlucky with two away games.

If we just get a semi competent Manager, line up 4-4-3, and stay injury free until January, then we will be ok, it really is that simple.

Watford was without a shot on target! Those games you mention were all before the Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool games though?

If we hadn't got wins against those teams, that on paper we shouldn't have done, we'd have had 30 points going into the Hull game and already relegated!! :eek:

MENTALLY TOUGH
12-09-2017, 01:02 PM
This is it for me.

Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool papered over cracks and closed peoples minds to everything before then, and is being used as a stick to beat down everything since.

They shouldn't of though as the cracks were clear to see by our record on those final 5 games of the season.

exiledeagle
12-09-2017, 01:11 PM
Watford was without a shot on target! Those games you mention were all before the Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool games though?

If we hadn't got wins against those teams, that on paper we shouldn't have done, we'd have had 30 points going into the Hull game and already relegated!! :eek:

but we did get points against them

Jon_C-Pal
12-09-2017, 01:17 PM
Why did Dann miss that header?

Why did CYL look up twice before putting wood in on goal and then not give a shit at what he'd just done afterwards??

Leopald Stotch
12-09-2017, 01:18 PM
I do not need a n explanation of culture. Please explain what the club's culture is if it isn't the team. Is it the fan base? Is it it's involvement in the community. Having social events. Because I an bemused. The only culture I see is a team that underperforms anfd doesn't like innovation. The culture if a spoilt lazy incompetent generation. What is our culture please educate me1

The culture of this club is based on something that has passed down through generations of supporters. It's our identity. And yes, I do feel that it is something that is tied to the communtiy that surrounds it. A culture is not based on performance. Man City and Chelsea both had their own culture prior to the millions of pounds that were invested. When Man City were in the 3rd tier, the club still had an identity and culture. It didn't turn up the day the Shiekh arrived. I don't view our culture on performance- if i did, I would have no hatred for Bri***on. The reason I stated that the players understand the culture, is that they, on average, probably have more interaction with the average supporter.

I agree with you that the team (players, management and board) have massively underperformed. I would also agree that there are numerous problems at all levels that need to be sorted. And I am as frustrated as the next man at walking out of Selhurst Park thoroughly pissed of at the inept performances of people who are payed millions of pounds to do a job that they seem incapable of doing.

However, I have, for my entire working life, held a succesion of increasinfgly senior management positions. And unfortunately, the buck has always stopped with me. If my team under perform, it's because I haven't managed them correctly. If I have problems, I deal with them. If people aren't performing, I manage them or move them on. One of my old bosses once said that after 3 months, you should have in place the team that you want.
Now, this is vastly different for football managers. The nature of the game means that a different approach needs to be taken. The only opportunity there is to change personnel is the transfer window. The nature of the players contracts mean the power is shifted from the people that should hold it. And knowing this, our approach to every one has been questionable.

And this is why I originally said that I don't feel FDB should shoulder the blame. The only manager in recent history who has been given the time to influence the team with succesive transfer windows is Pardew (and we all know how that went). The lack of any structure above the First team manager has been the problem. And the buck there stops with Parish.

Jon_C-Pal
12-09-2017, 01:22 PM
So De Boer plays a system that my 1 year old know wont work with the players we have. Loses 3 nothing to Huddesfield at home. Then does it again. Plays players out of position. Plays Lee instead of Luka. Puncheon plays every week despite being so short of confidence he looks about league 1.

Parish hires a manager and doesnt back him at all. Then sacks him after the only half decent performance. Goes to Ashton and Maylon to spread unrest in the media over De Boers futures. Approaches Hogdson several days ago.

Between them they dont sign a keeper despite our current number 1 being the worst in the top 2 divisions. Start the season with 1 senior striker.

The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players? Laughable.

Has Gilsey been on yet to tell us a very good 'source' tells him it was Delaney at fault?

This for me pretty much nails everything on the head. Ultimately Parish has overseen a ******* nightmare in which I can't see us coming back from.

Billyd
12-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.

Missing the point. Players are (rightly) criticised all the time for poor performances.

This is the insinuation that players are deliberately trying to get the manager sacked.

Very different thing.

Billyd
12-09-2017, 01:24 PM
Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.

Missing the point. Players are (rightly) criticised all the time for poor performances.

This is the insinuation that players are deliberately trying to get the manager sacked.

Very different thing.

Hector
12-09-2017, 01:32 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a7941376.html

This shows that it was never 'being sacked after only 4 games' he was dead in the water even before the season started.

JackTheBiscuit
12-09-2017, 01:41 PM
This shows that it was never 'being sacked after only 4 games' he was dead in the water even before the season started.

I suspect that article was dictated to Malyon by Parish. I'm not saying DeBoer hasn't made serious mistakes and bad judgements but the inner circle of Malyon and Ashton are clearly trying to deflect blame away from Parish.

GrayP41ace
12-09-2017, 01:55 PM
but we did get points against them

Exactly! 9 points against them was the only option, and because we did, everything poor prior is to be overlooked, and those 3 results are the first in everyones mind when looking back.

Not saying it's wrong, or bad, but nothing fundamental about the club changed in Sam's 5 months, aside from some on pitch results in a very small spell when 'winning was simply the only option'.

eddieskyclad
12-09-2017, 02:33 PM
Parish spent the summer trying to get recruitment right and went with a guy who vowed to change the culture of the club
Parish clearly got cold feet very quickly and the writing has been on the wall since before the first ball was kicked
FdB was undermined throughout
FdB may never have been good enough, but he was never really given a fair crack of the whip
It would not surprise me if the backpass was a deliberate spanner in the works
The only way a 1-year extension made sense for Delaney was to keep a pair of eyes and ears in the dressing room

wedgetail
12-09-2017, 02:43 PM
Parish spent the summer trying to get recruitment right and went with a guy who vowed to change the culture of the club
Parish clearly got cold feet very quickly and the writing has been on the wall since before the first ball was kicked
FdB was undermined throughout
FdB may never have been good enough, but he was never really given a fair crack of the whip
It would not surprise me if the backpass was a deliberate spanner in the works
The only way a 1-year extension made sense for Delaney was to keep a pair of eyes and ears in the dressing room

Utter nonsense. Any employee who when interviewed said he would do things in a certain way then went about doing the opposite, all the while being arrogant and rude and making a string of bad mistakes would be lucky to last 77 days.

brighton_eagle
12-09-2017, 03:04 PM
Utter nonsense. Any employee who when interviewed said he would do things in a certain way then went about doing the opposite, all the while being arrogant and rude and making a string of bad mistakes would be lucky to last 77 days.

But no-one employs someone for a role based only on an interview. Parish should have done his due diligence, and his research.

elgin eagle
12-09-2017, 03:15 PM
Didn't Lee have a public moan about Pardew at the end if the 15/16 season ? I think we all thought that would end his (very undistinguished) Palace career. Unfortunately, like a bad smell, he is still here.

Set up Wood very nicely on Sunday.

Lombardo's hair
12-09-2017, 03:16 PM
Utter nonsense. Any employee who when interviewed said he would do things in a certain way then went about doing the opposite, all the while being arrogant and rude and making a string of bad mistakes would be lucky to last 77 days.

Did he go about changing what he said he'd do? He said from get go it was 343 he said he would try and bring youth through. Which is possibly what pi***** off the senior players. Ian wright said in his book that the vets at arsenal didn't like him as he was a threat to their position in the team. It was not unusual for that sort of resentment at club's when younger players are breaking in to side.

Mr Palace
12-09-2017, 03:20 PM
Allardyce averaged 0.77 points per game without Sakho. Would he be good enough? What about Pardew who averaged .88 points per game last season? This idea, that some un-named manager would stroll in and get this bunch actually playing winning football is belied by the actual results (excepting a short spell last season) from the last 21 months.

Sam, who did a good job for us, talked openly of how this group of players did not listen or follow his instructions until after the Sunderland loss. That's seven league games where, in essence, they ignored him.

That tells me, that irrespective of the qualities (or lack of them) of FdB, there are far deeper issues in the team and squad.

I think there are some issues in the squad as you say that definitely need addressing - i.e. it's imbalanced for a start.

But there is absolutely no way that this squad of players - after a full pre-season - couldn't have been organised to get a minimum of five points from these 4 opening games. That we haven't and failed to score in the process is an indictment of FDB who constantly played people out of position, selected the wrong formation, selected some players when he shouldn't have (e.g. lee) and generally made a mess of it from day one. He couldn't have had a worse impact on the team's performance.

eddieskyclad
12-09-2017, 03:33 PM
Although aren't all Dutchmen slightly arrogant and aloof? They're not really a nation known for it's charisma...

NickinOx
12-09-2017, 04:03 PM
Mostly their performances on the pitch resemble Tracy Emins bed

The space underneath it one presumes.

red&blue_moomin
13-09-2017, 11:04 AM
The players didn't want to work for Allardyce either. He even came out and said as much, Parish even had to go in the dressing room and put a rocket up em, after yet another dreadful performance.

There's the problem right there we have a core of players that are a) shite b) think SP should be running team affairs.

Zulu84
13-09-2017, 11:23 AM
Did he go about changing what he said he'd do? He said from get go it was 343 he said he would try and bring youth through. Which is possibly what pi***** off the senior players. Ian wright said in his book that the vets at arsenal didn't like him as he was a threat to their position in the team. It was not unusual for that sort of resentment at club's when younger players are breaking in to side.

I agree with wedgetail. He said in his first interview that he knew he was hired to bring evolution and not revolution to our football. By all accounts he also knew he wouldn't be able to go out and buy 10 new players straight away, he would have to work with the players we had.

So what does he do, he goes immediately to a totally different formation that we are both uncomfortable with and ill suited for. His working with the players consists of playing some out of position, alienating others and apparently generally pissing off half the squad that he knew he wouldn't be able to move on.

I guess at the core of it, you simply can't anger everyone and expect to survive for long. He didn't have the players on his side, he didnt have the chairman on his side and he didn't have the majority of the supporters on his side. No one was left to back him so what did he expect? He man made himself an island and that had an inevitable ending.

Maidstoned Eagle
13-09-2017, 01:41 PM
Although aren't all Dutchmen slightly arrogant and aloof? They're not really a nation known for it's charisma...

They're arrogant, aloof, nutty and a right laugh.....

Hector
13-09-2017, 02:37 PM
Loving the conspiracy theory that Lee's back pass was deliberate. I don't believe that but he certainly didn't look to down in the dumps.

Yoda
13-09-2017, 02:42 PM
Loving the conspiracy theory that Lee's back pass was deliberate. I don't believe that but he certainly didn't look to down in the dumps.

Well, Lee's never given Benteke such a good pass so, joking aside, I'm pretty sure his backpass was an accident.

jimmy the gent
13-09-2017, 02:44 PM
Loving the conspiracy theory that Lee's back pass was deliberate. I don't believe that but he certainly didn't look to down in the dumps.

No way was that the case. Shouldnt change the fact that he should not get anywhere near the first team, unless as an emergency cover. Never been remotely good enough, awful signing and it appears awful attitude.

Optimistic Kev
13-09-2017, 02:44 PM
There's the problem right there we have a core of players that are a) shite b) think SP should be running team affairs.


Sorry to ruin the anti-Parish ramblings but Big Sam asked Parish to go into the dressing room. Sam has confirmed this many times.

That won't fit with lots of people's agendas but there you go.

gilesy14
13-09-2017, 02:47 PM
Loving the conspiracy theory that Lee's back pass was deliberate. I don't believe that but he certainly didn't look to down in the dumps.

I don't think he's capable of executing a precision pass so it rules that theory out tbh.

Excowboy
13-09-2017, 02:58 PM
TBH although I'm massively grateful for Delaney's work in getting us up and keeping us here, I'll be glad when he moves on. Clearly not up to top tier standard anymore and by most accounts not the most positive influence in the dressing room.

Yoda
13-09-2017, 03:08 PM
TBH although I'm massively grateful for Delaney's work in getting us up and keeping us here, I'll be glad when he moves on. Clearly not up to top tier standard anymore and by most accounts not the most positive influence in the dressing room.

Where's the evidence re Delaney?

I think we have to be careful of 'trial by internet' here. Someone mentions him in a post, it gets repeated and before you know, it becomes a 'fact'.

Parish could easily have not given him a new contract this summer, but did. If he was such a troublemaker, that wouldn't have happened.

Owngoal
13-09-2017, 03:18 PM
Where's the evidence re Delaney?

I think we have to be careful of 'trial by internet' here. Someone mentions him in a post, it gets repeated and before you know, it becomes a 'fact'.

Parish could easily have not given him a new contract this summer, but did. If he was such a troublemaker, that wouldn't have happened.

If your face fits you get a new contract regardless of how poor you are (Damo and Jules) or you seem to be undroppable (Punch)

gilesy14
13-09-2017, 04:00 PM
Where's the evidence re Delaney?

I think we have to be careful of 'trial by internet' here. Someone mentions him in a post, it gets repeated and before you know, it becomes a 'fact'.

Parish could easily have not given him a new contract this summer, but did. If he was such a troublemaker, that wouldn't have happened.

Two newspaper articles have named him amongst others - the same stories which people are taking as gospel in order to claim FdB is at fault. Not to mention that he has previous for this.

As usual though, I imagine people will read what they want but ignore the other bits that may paint any Palace 'favourite' in a bad light.

Eric the Ginga
13-09-2017, 04:11 PM
Two newspaper articles have named him amongst others - the same stories which people are taking as gospel in order to claim FdB is at fault. Not to mention that he has previous for this.

As usual though, I imagine people will read what they want but ignore the other bits that may paint any Palace 'favourite' in a bad light.
Are you suggesting that journo's simply trawl social media to put together a story; that journo's don't actually do some proper investigative work themselves?
I simply won't have it.

gilesy14
13-09-2017, 04:13 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJcyd3DWAAAQjk0.jpg

‘Martin Kelly was not deemed good enough and reacted badly while Joel Ward was deemed too slow to play at wing-back but failed to adapt to being a central defender. Delaney and Kelly were deemed only to be fringe players by the Dutchman but their displeasure with De Boer’s reign got back to Parish and fellow senior officials – which combined with his somewhat ‘cold’ manner, begin to paint a picture of trouble even very early in De Boer’s reign.’ – Ed Malyon, The Independent

gilesy14
13-09-2017, 04:13 PM
Are you suggesting that journo's simply trawl social media to put together a story; that journo's don't actually do some proper investigative work themselves?
I simply won't have it.

No...that's not what I'm suggesting.

jimmy the gent
13-09-2017, 04:21 PM
Are you suggesting that journo's simply trawl social media to put together a story; that journo's don't actually do some proper investigative work themselves?
I simply won't have it.

Probably being whooshed, but they don't get paid enough these days. Easier and cheaper to sit in the office sipping espressos and knocking up speculative bollocks based on social media drivel.

elgrande
13-09-2017, 04:26 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJcyd3DWAAAQjk0.jpg

I've seen that piece before,the one thing that grabs me about that.
Greedman was unimpressed,really as much as I quite pleased he's gone,greedman couldn't lace is boots with achievements.

AJ
13-09-2017, 04:54 PM
They're paid vast amounts of money, how about they respect the chain of command? Tall order these days it seems. F'cking darlings. Pathetic.
The other side of the coin is that the players cost and are worth millions of pounds. If your most valuable assets are not being played and are unhappy the value of that player drops and if they decide they want to leave a club like Palace get screwed. I read somewhere that Mandanda went back to Marseille for about 2m. We would struggle to get a top championship replacement for double that.

Alfie's army
13-09-2017, 05:01 PM
What does mark bright actually do for the club ? Anyone have a clue

Optimistic Kev
13-09-2017, 05:18 PM
What does mark bright actually do for the club ? Anyone have a clue


Brighty's role is to be the conduit between the youth teams up to U23's. He liaises with the respective managers and they meet to report of progress - which players may move up between teams and ultimately which ones to keep on at the end of the season.

He also keeps abreast of the players out on loan. Speaks to the players and the loan team managers to see how there doing. He also goes and watches the loan players and reports back himself.

I know this as he once told me [emoji2]

minch1
13-09-2017, 05:36 PM
It must be quite odd for this particular group of players having had four different Managers and coaching teams directing them over the past 10 months. Each with their own styles ideas and tactics. A fairly unusual circumstance.

It would be interesting to know their thoughts on the various and different approaches. But basically they are Pro's and appear to look after themselves. Just hope a bit of stability now will allow them to settle into a style and show what they are capable of. A few of them are familiar with RH. Townsend scored two or three good goals under Roy for England I seem to recall.

alanlee11
13-09-2017, 05:55 PM
Saw Roy kicking a ball in his "First Day" video. Do hope the players don't feel their egos have been put under attack by this.

Sick Bucket
13-09-2017, 05:56 PM
Although aren't all Dutchmen slightly arrogant and aloof? They're not really a nation known for it's charisma...

I was born and grew up there so I know the Dutch, they are encouraged from day one to express themselves and to voice their opinion, very confident people which spills over into arrogance, definitely. Also painfully blunt and very unsubtle, bordering on rude.

Lacking charisma? Naaa that's bollocks.

Eagle's Nest
13-09-2017, 06:19 PM
I was born and grew up there so I know the Dutch, they are encouraged from day one to express themselves and to voice their opinion, very confident people which spills over into arrogance, definitely. Also painfully blunt and very unsubtle, bordering on rude.

Lacking charisma? Naaa that's bollocks.

I was talking to a South African about de Boer at a work dinner a couple of nights ago.

He said the Afrikaners have an exaggerated Dutch personality. Direct to the point of bluntness and coming across to other South Africans as pretty unfriendly.

He told me something quite interesting that I didn't know before. He said even as an 'English South African' it was difficult to assimilate into the British culture of saying things without saying them. But he also admits having to tell newly arrived South Africans to "chill out".

NickinOx
13-09-2017, 07:49 PM
The other side of the coin is that the players cost and are worth millions of pounds. If your most valuable assets are not being played and are unhappy the value of that player drops and if they decide they want to leave a club like Palace get screwed. I read somewhere that Mandanda went back to Marseille for about 2m. We would struggle to get a top championship replacement for double that.

Chung-yong, Kelly, Delaney, Ward? They are the ones reported as being unhappy.

Don't get me wrong, as messed up as this whole process has been I am pleased that the club actually had a replacement lined up and ready to go. I am also a fan of Roy, and think he could be a good fit.

palacemetros
13-09-2017, 08:16 PM
Loving the conspiracy theory that Lee's back pass was deliberate.

If only he was that good. Can't spot that sort of pass going the other way, can he.

Nth Kent Eagle
13-09-2017, 08:35 PM
Well, Lee's never given Benteke such a good pass so, joking aside, I'm pretty sure his backpass was an accident.

He did a good corner at Sunderland last year which went where Benteke wanted it around the penalty spot and resulted in a headed goal. He also managed that goal at Stoke.

CharlieCPFC
13-09-2017, 08:46 PM
Brighty's role is to be the conduit between the youth teams up to U23's. He liaises with the respective managers and they meet to report of progress - which players may move up between teams and ultimately which ones to keep on at the end of the season.

He also keeps abreast of the players out on loan. Speaks to the players and the loan team managers to see how there doing. He also goes and watches the loan players and reports back himself.

I know this as he once told me [emoji2]

Ain't bad if you can get it.

Optimistic Kev
13-09-2017, 09:20 PM
Lots of travelling and watching football.

I'd imagine every team in the Prem and even the Championship has someone doing a similar role.

glaziers fan
14-09-2017, 10:17 AM
Saw Roy kicking a ball in his "First Day" video. Do hope the players don't feel their egos have been put under attack by this.

:supergrin::D

glaziers fan
14-09-2017, 10:20 AM
What does mark bright actually do for the club ? Anyone have a clue

FYP are running an exclusive interview with Mark Bright in their next edition, so we might find out then.