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jamienffc
12-11-2004, 03:28 PM
Nottingham Forest's bid to sign Crystal Palace winger Tommy Black has fallen down at the eleventh hour.

Manager Joe Kinnear revealed today that he had virtually wrapped up a loan deal to take the 24 year old Londoner to The City Ground in time to play against Burnley tomorrow.

But he had to concede defeat when Black eventually decided to stay with Palace in the hope of getting a move to another London club.

Said Kinnear: "The Palace manager Iain Dowie agreed to the deal but after thinking it over, the player decided he wanted to stay in London.

"He had a spell on loan at Sheffield United that didn't work out for him and he did not want a repeat of that. It's disappointing for us because I had worked hard to get someone in before the Burnley game."

maestro
12-11-2004, 03:31 PM
Good for him, but doubt he'll get a game

whats happened to forest jamie? they beat everyone at the end of last season, have you lost alot of players?

nookiebear
12-11-2004, 03:36 PM
He needs to go on loan and get in the shop window because he's so far down the pecking order he's no chance of getting a game

jamienffc
12-11-2004, 03:38 PM
The whole club is a bit of a mess from boardroom level mate, Kinnear was promised money to spend depending on season ticket sales which were around 14,000. Yet all he has been given is 500,000 for the season including wages for loans etc.

Johnson has been drastically off form, Reid handing in a transfer request & Dawsons long injury hasnt helped. Yet the players are capable of making a good go this season.

The main problem has been Kinnear not having the staff he wanted to bring in, Harford was at Luton when Kinnear came into the job last february & couldnt get leave. He seems to think now was the best time to move & since he came in on monday Kinnear has shipped out a number of backroom staff to accomodate Harford. But the results seem posititve.

Nowland has come in from Wet Sham for 200,000 and looks promising & Harford has got a postitive reaction out of the players & in particular Kinnear. People say they appear to be more connected on the training field than Ian Bowyer (Paul Hart's Assistant) was.

jamienffc
12-11-2004, 03:39 PM
Quite gutted we didnt get Tommy in, would certianly get a excellent run in the side. But he wants to get a London club move :(

Dartford Lad
12-11-2004, 03:45 PM
Queens Park Rangers want to sign him which is probably why he is holding out for a London club.

LP
12-11-2004, 03:53 PM
Well it's either QPR, Watford or (god forbid) Millwall.

RDSdaEAGLE
12-11-2004, 03:56 PM
What an idiot.

He should have gone.

GOD
12-11-2004, 04:03 PM
There isn't a London club as good as Forest that would want him - silly midget should have bitten their arm off for that move

Steve in Phoenix
12-11-2004, 04:11 PM
Wrong move for him I agree..

RDSdaEAGLE
12-11-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Wrong move for him I agree..

I don't see how. When you've not made the bench for the last 5 or 6 games, you've not impressed on your last loan move, and you're not likely to get a game for a while, how can any kind of move to a club one division lower be a bad move?

Tomo
12-11-2004, 04:18 PM
If I was him I would accept its time to move on. He can't even break into my champman team with us in the 1st division so hes got no hope in real life.

All the best for the future mind.

jamienffc
12-11-2004, 04:21 PM
agree Tommy would have no problem being a success here. We only have Impey or Jess filling in the right wing spots & Kevin James is injury prone.

The lack of pace is killing us & Black has plenty of it. He would do a job for any Championship team. Though if QPR are wanting him, Can't really see him turning that down seeing as they are doing well & we are in a relegation mire :(

Stavros 69
12-11-2004, 04:22 PM
We should look to get Dawson in for next season. With ID and JH i think we could turn him around and for a cut price deal

Sussex Eagle
12-11-2004, 04:26 PM
Would have been a very good move for him imo - about the biggest team he's going to get an offer from. Tommy's always been a damned fool - have a nice time at Barnet TB :rolleyes:

BUNGLE
12-11-2004, 04:50 PM
No great loss for Forest imho.

Tony
12-11-2004, 04:55 PM
And you'll miss the opportunity to play 'A Walk in the Black Forest' before the game.

Or Elvis Presley's In the Gateau

I'll get me coat

Palaceboy222
12-11-2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Tomo
If I was him I would accept its time to move on. He can't even break into my champman team with us in the 1st division so hes got no hope in real life.

All the best for the future mind.

to be fair on my champman game AJ couldnt get into a team with us in div1

Steve in Phoenix
12-11-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by RDSdaEAGLE
I don't see how. When you've not made the bench for the last 5 or 6 games, you've not impressed on your last loan move, and you're not likely to get a game for a while, how can any kind of move to a club one division lower be a bad move?

Sorry.. I phrased it badly.. I meant it was a wrong move on his part :) Forest would be a great club for him to join. Just cos it didnt go well at Sheffield is no reason to turn them down.. I dont think he'll get better offers than that.

The Vicar
12-11-2004, 06:06 PM
Tommy's a very good player who has the ability to take players on and beat them. He can also score a few goals.

My prediction is that Tommy will be one of the top players for whatever championship side he goes to.

cranesparkeagle
12-11-2004, 09:41 PM
Tommy on his day could be terrific but his attitude?? How much did he really want it when we were in Div1? I can see why Dowie would want him to go.

kolinkins
12-11-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by The Vicar

My prediction is that Tommy will be one of the top players for whatever championship side he goes to.

Like he was for us you mean?

Sussex Eagle
12-11-2004, 09:53 PM
LoL - TB will never amount to anything. He could do well in League 1 through talent alone, but he is a dim-witted waste of space - blessed with natural talent but no 'footballing brain' whatsoever to put it into effect.

mabbutts boots
12-11-2004, 10:02 PM
spoke to tommy at some length at the recent players dinners, we got the impression that he loved palace (in fact he said to us that he only signed a new contract on the back of our conversation at the previous years p.o.t.y dinner) and certainly didnt want to leave.
He is a tremendously talented lad, we all know that, so something must be happening behind the scenes that is preventing him showing us what we all know he can do.
I, for one, hope he stays, after all, if Wayne does hapen to leave in the January transfer window, who else have we got to play on the right in that manner??!!!
(He couldnt stand Trevor Francis either, by the way......)

Stay with us Tommy.:p

Eagle 2000
12-11-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by mabbutts boots
I, for one, hope he stays, after all, if Wayne does hapen to leave in the January transfer window, who else have we got to play on the right in that manner??!!!

[/B]

err, Lakis?

ANDYEAGLE
12-11-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by GOD
There isn't a London club as good as Forest that would want him - silly midget should have bitten their arm off for that move

QPR are a lot healthier than Forest at the moment,would be a much better move for TB as he can stay in London. Think he can do a good job for them and I hope he does well.

Benzhiyi
12-11-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by mabbutts boots
something must be happening behind the scenes that is preventing him showing us what we all know he can do.

Yes - the management team are all aware that he is nowhere near good enough to play in the Premiership.

Simple as that.

weh8millwall
13-11-2004, 12:17 AM
Wrong move from Tommy i think. This was his chance to impress and put himself in the shop window, turning down a move has just restricted him. Why hold out for something (ie a move to QPR) that isn't necessarily going to happen?

He's going to end up rotting in the reserves (or lower) and it will be a career in the lower leagues i think. Is a shame as he had potential, but it seems he hasn't used it and is now, to be perfectly blunt, pretty shit with seemingly a bit of a bad attitude...

Phil O'Sophical
13-11-2004, 11:22 AM
From the Forest web site

Nottingham Forest's bid to sign Crystal Palace winger Tommy Black has fallen down at the eleventh hour.

Manager Joe Kinnear revealed today that he had virtually wrapped up a loan deal to take the 24 year old Londoner to The City Ground in time to play against Burnley tomorrow.
But he had to concede defeat when Black eventually decided to stay with Palace in the hope of getting a move to another London club.

Said Kinnear: "The Palace manager Iain Dowie agreed to the deal but after thinking it over, the player decided he wanted to stay in London.
"He had a spell on loan at Sheffield United that didn't work out for him and he did not want a repeat of that. It's disappointing for us because I had worked hard to get someone in before the Burnley game."

humpo
15-11-2004, 05:38 PM
i really hope Forest get out of this rut they are in, i would be truly sad if they went down.

Super-Ste-Cious
15-11-2004, 05:43 PM
im afriad tommy just cnt cut it at the top level - but shud slot in well in most championship sides - if needed.

wants to stay in london tho - apparently his loan move at Shefield United was disasterous (although it hadnt seem that bad) - heard QPR are interested

cpfc_connection
16-11-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Super-Ste-Cious
- heard QPR are interested

Black is not a good trainer, and doesn't like the Dowie methods. I highly doubt Black would want to go to QPR where Ian Holloway uses the same training methods as Dowie.

wedgetail
16-11-2004, 01:52 PM
Players can be immensely talented but not able or willing to put in the necessary work to make the best of their talent. I think that Black is one of those.

oz_da II
21-11-2004, 11:14 AM
Tommy is off to Forest tomorrow.
Permanent.

Sussex Eagle
21-11-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Tommy is off to Forest tomorrow.
Permanent.

Frankly, I'm glad if true - at best he's a non-entity who 4 grand a week is being wasted on, and at worst he may be a bit of a bad influence if the stuff about his attitude is to be believed. Not even needed as emergency backup now we have Lakis.

Super Mabbutt
21-11-2004, 11:25 AM
Tommy doesn't have much chance here now. He is restricted to bit part reserve team performances and for the sake of his career, he needs to move on and get regular first team football. He will go with my best wishes and will always get a good welcome if he should ever come back.

mainstandeagle
21-11-2004, 11:29 AM
Got an idea of the fee oz_daII??

oz_da II
21-11-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by mainstandeagle
Got an idea of the fee oz_daII??

No idea. Wouldn't think it would be very much.

ANDYEAGLE
21-11-2004, 12:10 PM
Forest have only got a total of 250.000 to spend so it can hardly be much if anything. Sorry to see him go if confirmed. Thought he had worked hard in recent reserve games and did'nt really get a chance in recent times at Palace but with Lakis as cover for Wayne there is no choice imo. Good luck to him.

aliceisababe
22-11-2004, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Tommy is off to Forest tomorrow.
Permanent.
Can I ask how you know this???

oz_da II
22-11-2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by aliceisababe
Can I ask how you know this???

Standing next to him on Saturday while he was yacking on his phone.

Men At Work
22-11-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Standing next to him on Saturday while he was yacking on his phone.

Couldn't you get a more reliable source like 'a bloke in the pub told me'?

eagles #1
22-11-2004, 09:55 AM
I bloody hope Palace are getting fees for all these players even if minimal. People would charge us we should charge them!! :D

Benzhiyi
22-11-2004, 10:31 AM
If true, 250k is a very attractive fee. Good business.

sydnsteve
22-11-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
If true, 250k is a very attractive fee. Good business.

Andyeagle said that Forest only have a transfer fund on 250,000 in total, so the implication is we won't be getting anything like that for Tommy.
I always liked TB, and hope he does well fro Forest, a team i also have a soft spot for.
Just remember that his dive vs Walasall helped get us into the playoffs when it looked as though we had blown it and no-one else was producing anything. For that alone he has my gratitude.

eagles #1
22-11-2004, 12:16 PM
Then AJ missed the pen and got the rebound, brilliant!! We were destined to go up last season.

Clapham Grand
22-11-2004, 12:21 PM
the cull of the peripherals continues then

zonin2000
22-11-2004, 03:14 PM
No 'official' news yet?

jamienffc
22-11-2004, 09:30 PM
cracking signing if it comes off for us.

c_block_lad
22-11-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by jamienffc
cracking signing if it comes off for us.

He will be if he loses his excess weight.

jamienffc
22-11-2004, 09:35 PM
Kinnear is already tieing up a deal to get Luton's Steve Howard to the City Ground tomorrow, surely we wont have the funds to sign them both permanantly.

maestro
22-11-2004, 09:37 PM
I think he'll do well for forest, has the ability to be one of the best players in div 1 in my opinion although seems like a confidence player

zonin2000
22-11-2004, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by c_block_lad
He will be if he loses his excess weight.

??? :confused: :confused:

Shipp Ahoy!
22-11-2004, 09:38 PM
Maybe he is allowed to leave on a free?

Marlon
22-11-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
Forest have only got a total of 250.000 to spend so it can hardly be much if anything.
Thats a crock of shite pal.

ANDYEAGLE
22-11-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Marlon
Thats a crock of shite pal.

Might be a load of shite mate but it was the quote from Joe Kinnear last week and he also said that included wages. The only way they would have more if they have already done a deal for Dawson or Reid.
Of course Kinnear rates them about 10 million,his nuts.

Stavros 69
22-11-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
Might be a load of shite mate but it was the quote from Joe Kinnear last week and he also said that included wages. The only way they would have more if they have already done a deal for Dawson or Reid.
Of course Kinnear rates them about 10 million,his nuts.

Reid will be off in Jan and i wouldnt be supprised if Dawson is gone if he gets a few good games under his belt.

Marlon
22-11-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
Might be a load of shite mate but it was the quote from Joe Kinnear last week and he also said that included wages. The only way they would have more if they have already done a deal for Dawson or Reid.
Of course Kinnear rates them about 10 million,his nuts.
Kinnear talks more bollocks than Kenny Snr.

The man is a joke.

If only Doughty would have listened to me last October when I was calling for H**t to be sacked and Dowie appointed. ;)

ANDYEAGLE
22-11-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Stavros 69
Reid will be off in Jan and i wouldnt be supprised if Dawson is gone if he gets a few good games under his belt.

I agree at a realistic price of about 2.5 million, Forest need the money and Reid is desperate to play in the premier.

Marlon
22-11-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
I agree at a realistic price of about 2.5 million, Forest need the money and Reid is desperate to play in the premier.
2.5m ?

You are having a http://www.wildlife-pictures-online.com/image-files/xgir16.jpg

ANDYEAGLE
22-11-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Marlon
Kinnear talks more bollocks than Kenny Snr.

The man is a joke.

If only Doughty would have listened to me last October when I was calling for H**t to be sacked and Dowie appointed. ;)

We all know kinnear talks shite but I can only quote the shite he sprouts.

Marlon
22-11-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
We all know kinnear talks shite but I can only quote the shite he sprouts.
Quote it then believe the opposite.

The man is a joke.

ANDYEAGLE
22-11-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Marlon
2.5m ?

You are having a http://www.wildlife-pictures-online.com/image-files/xgir16.jpg

Maybe a little high eh?

Shipp Ahoy!
22-11-2004, 11:30 PM
I think maybe between 2.5million and 3million for Dawson.

Kirby
23-11-2004, 12:08 AM
Kinnear/Forest fans are off their tits on smack if they think they'll get anything over 3 (or at a push 4) million for Reid. No team in their right mind would pay anything near 10m.

RDSdaEAGLE
23-11-2004, 12:20 AM
Forest are a team who don't have much finance.

They have 2 choices. Sell their hotest property for less during the transfer window, or try and push for promotion during the second half of the season with what they've got.

Neither Dawson or Reid are realistically worth more than 3m each in the current market. Considering Calum Davenport cost Spurs 1.1m (rising to 3m with appearances) it seems to be a reasonable value.

Malakite
23-11-2004, 02:31 PM
Forest need to OxO their chairman and quickly..how I dont know..their season ticket holders have been lied to about renewing them in order to pump cash into the club to buy more players, the fact was it was merely to help out with debts etc.....T'trees also owe the City Council like 4.5 million squid from the loan for the Trent end for the Euro 1996, which they were almost sued over, so therefore have NOWT coming in, they must sell even more to go forward...Im not sure about Dawson now...they generally have leaked like a Sieve this season, and he has been constantly ill and outta the team either because of illness or injury..so im not that sure about them...for their fans to think they will get millions for their players, unfortuneately, is their blindness that everyone talks about them as a HUGE EUROPEAN CUP WINNING TEAm that are still HUGE and far to big to be in the lower divisions....when in reality, they are no bigger than the Pikies nowadays...its merely their fan base thats big..no offense Gibbo but you know what im talking about.

jamienffc
23-11-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Malakite
Forest need to OxO their chairman and quickly..how I dont know..their season ticket holders have been lied to about renewing them in order to pump cash into the club to buy more players, the fact was it was merely to help out with debts etc.....T'trees also owe the City Council like 4.5 million squid from the loan for the Trent end for the Euro 1996, which they were almost sued over, so therefore have NOWT coming in, they must sell even more to go forward...Im not sure about Dawson now...they generally have leaked like a Sieve this season, and he has been constantly ill and outta the team either because of illness or injury..so im not that sure about them...for their fans to think they will get millions for their players, unfortuneately, is their blindness that everyone talks about them as a HUGE EUROPEAN CUP WINNING TEAm that are still HUGE and far to big to be in the lower divisions....when in reality, they are no bigger than the Pikies nowadays...its merely their fan base thats big..no offense Gibbo but you know what im talking about.

Those pointers are true, sadly at this moment in time I dont believe we're any better than say Preston in terms of squad quality.

Take away Reid, Gerrard, Morgan & Dawson & we're a very very poor side & the table doesnt lie.

We're where we are because players havnt been putting in the performances.

Marlon you're right, first to call for Dowie to be installed back in October last season when Hart was begining to show signs of losing it. Many laughed when you were chanting Iain Dowie's red & white army. Who's laughing now Palace are in the premiership :(

Stavros 69
23-11-2004, 04:51 PM
I would have never gotten rid of Hart.

jamienffc
23-11-2004, 05:10 PM
Look at Barnsley now

maestro
23-11-2004, 08:50 PM
I cant understand where that 10million figure for reid comes from it just seems totally out of propertion, I dont think he's much better than kolkka and we got him for free and he has champs league experience.

3 or 4 million tops

ANDYEAGLE
23-11-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by maestro
I cant understand where that 10million figure for reid comes from it just seems totally out of propertion, I dont think he's much better than kolkka and we got him for free and he has champs league experience.

3 or 4 million tops

3 tops I think Maestro and that not all up front. Last price Forest were asking was 5 million,crazy in this market, Spurs last offer was 3 million although they had made a higher offer some time ago. Forest missed the market they will sell for sure in Jan. Hope all the money goes back for incoming players for the Forest fans sake, somehow doubt it.

RDSdaEAGLE
23-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Black was in our reserves tonight. Makes me wonder whether the Forest deal will happen.

ANDYEAGLE
23-11-2004, 09:18 PM
Yes there has been no confirmation on that one anyway. Last we heard a few weeks back that he did'nt want to go on loan there. Maybe its crap.

Malakite
24-11-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by ANDYEAGLE
Yes there has been no confirmation on that one anyway. Last we heard a few weeks back that he did'nt want to go on loan there. Maybe its crap.

Fingers crossed! :p