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-   -   What's the point of our academy? (http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274014)

Lee sinnots ear 06-02-2018 04:47 PM

What's the point of our academy?
 
This may look like a controversial question but why does the club invest vast sums of money in an academy that hasnít produced a single first team player since Wilf? In 2010. ( I know you could argue Johnny Williams played in 2011 but he has not made it sadly)

So what is the point? Huddersfield have ditched theirs,why do we keep ours?

As a season ticket holder for 48 years I have seen the best of our academy ( The famous 1979 winners being the best ) But back to my question what is the point of spending millions to produce absolutely nothing?

Selhurst Celtic 06-02-2018 04:48 PM

Is that a serious question?

in-exile 06-02-2018 04:51 PM

Don't think we spend very much.

Lee sinnots ear 06-02-2018 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic (Post 14103353)
Is that a serious question?

Yes why spend all that money and produce nothing ?

Owngoal 06-02-2018 04:57 PM

So what would Wilf and Clyne (if we still had him) be worth next summer? It is also about being a part of the community. Why do you think we have a learning centre as well?

Maidstoned Eagle 06-02-2018 05:00 PM

But we donīt, we make money selling players on. Maybe not of the likes of clyne, Moses, Zaha etc, but we do sell.

lee_cpfc 06-02-2018 05:00 PM

We will need it next season.

South London and Proud

McpfcS 06-02-2018 05:01 PM

Keeps kids fit, motivated and out of trouble. And perhaps 1% might go on to make some money out of football.

KungFuCharlie 06-02-2018 05:02 PM

Hard to compete with Chelsea's London-wide empire.

Selhurst Celtic 06-02-2018 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee sinnots ear (Post 14103367)
Yes why spend all that money and produce nothing ?

Every now and again a gem will be produced & sold which will pay for it for the next few years.
Engage the local community with the club.
We'll need it if we drop.

Lee sinnots ear 06-02-2018 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic (Post 14103396)
Every now and again a gem will be produced & sold which will pay for it for the next few years.
Engage the local community with the club.
We'll need it if we drop.

Ok I buy all this logic so perhaps the question should be..... Whatís gone wrong with the Academy given that we have had a history of producing great young talent over the years ,but havenít produced one first team regular now approaching 8 years?

Hector 06-02-2018 05:13 PM

Academies run correctly like southamptonís Produce talent that can be a first teamer and/or sold for good money. Ours has been under invested in for years and when investment is put in itíll probably take a few years for players to come through. Thinking we will see some players soon seems foolish to me.

wrightchipvcfc 06-02-2018 05:14 PM

We got so much competition in London area getting the best kids from early age with arsenal spurs Chelsea ect then if we do we got to hope at some stage for what ever reason there parents don't decide there better of moving to a other club.then when they sighn on properly very few make it to be a premier league player some will make a living at some level div 1 and 2 national ryman ect.some will just drift away from pro football but every now and then you might find a wilf clyne Moses ect .someone like woosie could probaly tell us how much academy would cost to run and if it's worth gamble of finding the next wilf.

Selhurst Celtic 06-02-2018 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee sinnots ear (Post 14103406)
Ok I buy all this logic so perhaps the question should be..... Whatís gone wrong with the Academy given that we have had a history of producing great young talent over the years ,but havenít produced one first team regular now approaching 8 years?

We go through stages of not producing top talent, but keep ticking over with lower league fodder. It has always been the way.

Southampton get praised for producing top players but it was easy for them to blood a lot of their now famous academy lads as they were in the third tier at the time and they have a superior set up.

Woosie 06-02-2018 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee sinnots ear (Post 14103351)
This may look like a controversial question but why does the club invest vast sums of money in an academy that hasn’t produced a single first team player since Wilf? In 2010. ( I know you could argue Johnny Williams played in 2011 but he has not made it sadly)

So what is the point? Huddersfield have ditched theirs,why do we keep ours?

As a season ticket holder for 48 years I have seen the best of our academy ( The famous 1979 winners being the best ) But back to my question what is the point of spending millions to produce absolutely nothing?

An academy is far more than just producing footballers for the first-team. It has a significant benefit to the lives of some young people who otherwise would end up in pretty shit situations in life. It can bring some out of poverty, it teaches them important skills for life and a whole host of other things. It benefits the community as well.

What do you mean by "vast sums of money" - relative to what? Because the investment in the academy is not huge. It might be more pertinent to look at the reasons the club has not produced anyone from the academy since the likes of Wilf and Clyne. What is going wrong? What could be done better? Looking from the outside in I would say that we don't get players out on loan to the right club early enough, or out on loan enough at all.

The facilities are also not that helpful - though not the main issue - playing at Goals with poor pitches which are rented hardly helps to give them the best chances to develop.

The main issue is the fact we are in the Premier League, and the fact we have had a succession of managers who are focused solely on the first-team (for understandable reasons). To play in the PL requires a significantly better quality of player than to play in the Championship, and also a different type of player mentally as well as technically.

It is harder to make it in a top-flight team than a second division side, the squad in the PL is larger so if any injuries come along then you're more likely to see the manager turn to a player who has experience who has sat on the bench with much higher wages than a kid who has no or little experience. The bigger the squad the more players you have who you need to play or you'd be more likely to play over a kid.

The cost of relegation is so high now as a result of the TV money and sponsorship deals that a manager is far less likely to play a youth player because it is theoretically more of a risk than playing someone who has sat on the bench and had a few games here and there. Anything which increases the risk of relegation is not going to be considered by a manager who knows they will get sacked if they take the club down. Or by a manager who fears/knows that they won't be around for a long time.

That's just some of the reasons why we haven't produced anyone like Wilf/Clyne etc. 180 out of 1.5million kids playing organised youth football will make a Premier League appearance.

Until such a time as we are able to establish ourselves as a club which isn't constantly fighting relegation, only the very very very best young players will come through. Even then it will be difficult, and the chances of that happening are fairly slim given that mid-table no longer seems to exist in the PL.

That doesn't necessarily answer the question of what is the point of the academy, but historically Palace is a club which has cared about the academy, taken pride in it and bringing players through, but also for the community aspect of it. If you focus on an academy in purely football terms then you do a disservice to the community which the club serves.

TL;dr version - it helps the community, PL money makes it harder, lack of managerial stability, and one player coming through could pay for 10 years of running the academy

Robson 06-02-2018 05:23 PM

In fairness we probably would have seen a lot more of Johnny Williams but he's made of poppadoms, sadly.

wrightchipvcfc 06-02-2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic (Post 14103414)
We go through stages of not producing top talent, but keep ticking over with lower league fodder. It has always been the way.

Southampton get praised for producing top players but it was easy for them to blood a lot of their now famous academy lads as they were in the third tier at the time and they have a superior set up.

A guy I worked with boy was at palace at about 15 Southampton took him off us his dad said to me the set up there was a different level to palace they put him in good school accommodation ect

dogstar721 06-02-2018 05:24 PM

To produce players. Unsurprisingly, its quite difficult to produce players of premiership quality, but the academy does produce players who often go on to play at different levels in the football leagues (and loan out such players).

I suspect its much less of a 'loss' making business that you'd imagine.

Thefunkymonk 06-02-2018 05:26 PM

Academy has been neglected for years. Will take years to see benefits of any improvement

Surrey Eagle 06-02-2018 05:34 PM

Always thought the academy was dodgy, they never signed me.


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