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-   -   Is Pep a good manager? (http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274764)

Far East Eagle 16-04-2018 03:05 AM

Is Pep a good manager?
 
The man has won La Liga, the Bundesliga and now the Premier League. But is he genuinely a great manager?

Guardiola has the almost unlimited wealth of Middle Eastern despots to call on at City, won out in a 2 horse race in Spain and a 1 horse race in Germany.

Compare his to Rafa Benitez who broke the duopoly with Valencia in Spain, won the Europa League with an unfancied Chelsea team and performed a minor miracle with Newcastle in the last 2 seasons.

Could Pep do the same?

Final comparison. There is a lot of talk about Guardiola being one of the all time greats. How does he fare against Bobby Robson? In his 13 years at Ipswich he only signed 20 players, most of the players that he utilised to win promotion and the UEFA Cup were Ipswich academy boys that he rigorously trained into shape. He then went on to manage the national team, best result since 1966, and won leagues across Europe, including at Barcelona before they were the superclub that Guardiola would inherit.

cpfc4evandeva 16-04-2018 03:31 AM

As much as I hate to admit it, the best ever is most likely Ferguson.

Benitez is a very good manager and you’ve missed out that he won the Champions League with a very unfancied Liverpool side.

Daniel_Nash 16-04-2018 03:45 AM

Definitely a good manager and coach but needs a certain type of player, I think.

It's not really a criticism, but I don't think he could take an average team and make them champs. He makes very good players better by putting a set of tactics in place that works for that type of player, but I don't think he can take a group of average players and devise a set of tactics that would turn them into a good unit.

All well and good having the funds to spend 50m on a full back, 75m on a midfielder and hand pick players to buy, but their (very good) academy has largely been ignored and he doesn't seem the type to search for bargains at a lesser club. Nor has he had to, or probably ever likely to... it takes just as high level of ability and personality to manage top players as it does to sculpt a side. Just a different type to what Bobby Robson or Benitez did in those examples.

Asagaya_Eagle 16-04-2018 03:58 AM

Pretty much agree with all comments so far. Definitely one of the very best at working with elite players (for example Sterling has been very good under him), and has been lucky with the squad he's inherited at every team so far.

Let's see how he gets on when he takes over after Roy retires...

Pat of the Palace 16-04-2018 05:16 AM

Too happy to take the cushy option and never has a plan B as plan A normally does it.

I'd love to see how he'd get on with a smaller club.

Far East Eagle 16-04-2018 05:25 AM

I perhaps should have posed the question as 'is Pep a great manager'

Olympian2 16-04-2018 06:22 AM

He's a petulant twat, I know that. Losing his rag on the rare occasions his team loses (see Wigan, Liverpool) & still defiantly wearing that ******* yellow ribbon. Don't like our rules, mate? **** off then.

strolling bones 16-04-2018 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympian2 (Post 14212655)
He's a petulant twat, I know that. Losing his rag on the rare occasions his team loses (see Wigan, Liverpool) & still defiantly wearing that ******* yellow ribbon. Don't like our rules, mate? **** off then.

He's just won the title in the fastest time for 17 yrs, the rules don't seem to be much of a problem . As an aside, anyone who stops man utd or Chelsea fans gloating about winning it is ok in my book .

ExiledStirling 16-04-2018 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far East Eagle (Post 14212640)
I perhaps should have posed the question as 'is Pep a great manager'

What I like about him is that he sees football as an artform with the players the artistes.

One of the few managers I dont begrudge having zillions to spend as it results is some breathtaking football.

Contrast that to the often dull and cynical win at all costs Mourinho.

lee_cpfc 16-04-2018 07:41 AM

Did well at Barcelona with the greatest team of all time.
Did OK at Bayern domestically but not in Europe
Has done OK at City but not fantastic given the money and players available.
Needs to win Champions League with City a couple of times to be considered in the elite group.
Mourinho is a better manager based on achievements and the clubs that he has managed

AJ8 16-04-2018 08:08 AM

He won the treble in his first season as manager for Barca after selling Deco, Zambrotta and Ronaldinho, also losing Lilian Thuram to illness. Became the youngest manager to win the Champions League in his first season.

It’s a bit of a myth he inherited the best team ever, he signed Dani Alves in his first summer, re-signed Pique and promoted youngsters like Pedro and Busquets into the first team making them all the players they are today.

ExiledStirling 16-04-2018 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_cpfc (Post 14212730)
Needs to win Champions League with City a couple of times to be considered in the elite group.

At the end of the day, the CL is a cup competition, and too much store is put on winning it. A great achievement to win it, yes, but necessary proof of greatness, no.

sheepy 16-04-2018 08:18 AM

I'd say he's probably only a decent manager tactically (Strugggles to adapt mid game) but he is a truely great coach.

Just look at the impact he's had on Stirlings all round game this season. Ditto Sane, De Bruyne, Jesus etc.

LuieJack 16-04-2018 08:23 AM

Is Pep a good manager? he is a great manager as his achievements show, but beside that he has proved he is able to improve players performances to a new level, but we must also remember he is Not infalable and does make mistakes like everbody else does. What is intriguing is how far will he take this City side and what their domination of the EPL will be and its effects on others.
But then so has Jose "M" his Championship winning record with so many clubs around Europe is incredible and second to none, but on the flip side we have also seen him flop.
As for Sir Alex "F" yes he achieved so much with Man Utd, but lets not forget he was on the verge of being sacked by Utd for under achievement, and was only rescued by the birth of that amazing Youth Team in 1990 which i was fortunate to witness in that Youth Cup Final against CPFC home and away, and that gave Sir Alex the wonderful foundations to build from, which was his saviour.
But should we ignore Arsene Wenger achievements? there is a case for him being the best ever for his development of young raw and unknown players into World stars, unlike other managers who have bought success. Not only that, but with a style of play that bemused opposition and excited All fans including neutrals, it is just a shame to Now see his clubs demise from the levels he had set, also more galling is his stubborness in not accepting their decline and just stepping down and then being remembered for his wonderful past achievements.

switchboard 16-04-2018 09:02 AM

I don't rate Pep anywhere near Ferguson, Wenger and dare I add Mourinho, although Mourinho has had a shocking time this season. I think any one of the managers in the Premier League would win the title with City this year except Paul Lambert and Pellegrino.

Pep has taken the easy path since leaving the easy path at Barcelona. The complete wankathon over Pep has made me dislike him intensely and I was delighted when Liverpool knocked them out, I even found myself wanting United to beat them to the title. Nothing sits right about City and even though Liverpool and United have cheated their way for years City seems to stink far more for me. I said at the time for Pep to prove himself he should have taken the United job but he chose the easy job again and it is no surprise they won the title with the most expensive squad in Europe. He won't ever manage a smaller side and for that he won't be a great manager in my opinion.

ChiswickEagle 16-04-2018 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far East Eagle (Post 14212612)
The man has won La Liga, the Bundesliga and now the Premier League. But is he genuinely a great manager?

Guardiola has the almost unlimited wealth of Middle Eastern despots to call on at City, won out in a 2 horse race in Spain and a 1 horse race in Germany.

Compare his to Rafa Benitez who broke the duopoly with Valencia in Spain, won the Europa League with an unfancied Chelsea team and performed a minor miracle with Newcastle in the last 2 seasons.

Could Pep do the same?

Final comparison. There is a lot of talk about Guardiola being one of the all time greats. How does he fare against Bobby Robson? In his 13 years at Ipswich he only signed 20 players, most of the players that he utilised to win promotion and the UEFA Cup were Ipswich academy boys that he rigorously trained into shape. He then went on to manage the national team, best result since 1966, and won leagues across Europe, including at Barcelona before they were the superclub that Guardiola would inherit.

Booby Robson didn't win the League at Barcelona.

Far East Eagle 16-04-2018 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiswickEagle (Post 14212850)
Booby Robson didn't win the League at Barcelona.

You are quite right, I remembered incorrectly. However what he did win and achieve in his season at Barca is arguably even more impressive:

Quote:

One of the key decisions Robson made during his brief tenure at Barcelona was the US$19.5 million signing of Ronaldo, who was influential in a season when Barcelona won the Copa del Rey, Supercopa de España and European Cup Winners' Cup. Robson himself was voted European Manager of the Year for 1996–97, while Ronaldo stated, "as a trainer without doubt [Robson] is one of the greatest in the world".
Treble, European Manager of the Year and signed Ronaldo. Not bad going.

Kylie_Tracey 16-04-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switchboard (Post 14212830)
I don't rate Pep anywhere near Ferguson, Wenger and dare I add Mourinho, although Mourinho has had a shocking time this season. I think any one of the managers in the Premier League would win the title with City this year except Paul Lambert and Pellegrino.

Pep has taken the easy path since leaving the easy path at Barcelona. The complete wankathon over Pep has made me dislike him intensely and I was delighted when Liverpool knocked them out, I even found myself wanting United to beat them to the title. Nothing sits right about City and even though Liverpool and United have cheated their way for years City seems to stink far more for me. I said at the time for Pep to prove himself he should have taken the United job but he chose the easy job again and it is no surprise they won the title with the most expensive squad in Europe. He won't ever manage a smaller side and for that he won't be a great manager in my opinion.

I used to think that myself that any Tom,Dick and Harry could win the silverware he has done with players lile Xavi/Iniesta and Messi and his disposal but I dont think its quite as easy as that, there is a school of thought that those three might have never developed into the players they did if it was'nt for him, look at this City team he's turned Sterling into a top performer, Walker into one of the best full backs in the world and De Bryune and Sane into brilliant world class players, Sterling looked no better than pub player with pace last season and with England

Harry Bassett 16-04-2018 10:02 AM

To my way of thinking this thread has an element of knocking some one at the top and making unlikely comparisons. Ferguson for example was a very good manager but when his team came up against Guardiola's Barcelona they were out classed.

Early Arsenal with Wenger was top flight as well but none of them can compare with Pep as a coach. Would hate to see Wilf go any where other than Palace but part of me wonders how he would improve under Pep.

carter 16-04-2018 10:22 AM

Do bears shit in the woods?


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