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  #1081  
Old 30-08-2017, 08:26 PM
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Finklestien seems to suggest that capitalism persists because socialists have failed to come up with a model which every one will accept and adopt. He makes no mention of the vested interests committed to perpetuating capitalism and ensuring that alternatives fail.
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  #1082  
Old 30-08-2017, 08:34 PM
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Finklestien seems to suggest that capitalism persists because socialists have failed to come up with a model which every one will accept and adopt. He makes no mention of the vested interests committed to perpetuating capitalism and ensuring that alternatives fail.
While the vested interests point is fair, the inability to conceptually articulate a system that works remains. Who (and how) does a person go to work in the HR department of the company that produces ink for Twix wrappers? How does this system deal with those who do not want to volunteer their time, or refuse to do shit jobs?

It's not insignificant that regimes that profess to be putting socialism into practise invariably end up committing gross human rights abuses. They all get disowned afterwards, yet there are BBSers who make excuses for Putin, Assad, Maduro, just about any nasty bastard so long as they're anti-west. Each time a "socialist" regime descended into human rights abuses and a loss of basic freedoms I don't doubt there were similar others arguing that it was for the "greater good".
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  #1083  
Old 31-08-2017, 06:37 AM
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Without the market competition that makes us ruthless and has us jostling for position, we will all muck in. Someone will notice that there is a need for someone to work in the human resources department of the organisation that produces the ink that is used on Twix wrappers, and they will pop in and do it. For nothing.


Finkelstein is spot on. And the passage above, whilst obviously played for laughs, is actually an excellent point, which illustrates perfectly the fatal flaw at heart of the socialist/co-operation idea. Were we in that sort of economy then I'm sure we could find enough people wanting to be nurses, engine drivers and astronauts; I actually reckon we'd find enough people to clean station platforms once in a blue moon (residents' associations tend to organise annual 'litter picks' in their areas); but no one's going to do the unglamourous, dull, difficult, or obscure roles such as Twix ink HR without being paid.
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  #1084  
Old 31-08-2017, 06:48 AM
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Robots will do the unpopular jobs, while people do the ones they want. Fully automated luxury communism.
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  #1085  
Old 31-08-2017, 06:58 AM
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Robots will do the unpopular jobs, while people do the ones they want. Fully automated luxury communism.
I've always fancied being a mercenary. Or an assassin. Have got a mate who left the forces at the same time as me, but has now retired with the mortgage paid off. Plenty of work in those fields if you know the right people and dont mind a bit of risk. You wouldnt want to piss him off, anyway.
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  #1086  
Old 31-08-2017, 08:17 AM
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It's why the far-left scare me as much as the far-right.[/QUOTE]

I think theres a difference though.

Far leftists can be perfectly nice people, they only become shits when they are in power. While far rightists are horrible all the time. I mean, would you rather your teenage daughter dated a revolutionary communist or a nazi? Its a no-brainer.
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  #1087  
Old 31-08-2017, 08:27 AM
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Or a neo-liberal. Imagine her coming home with one of those contemptuous feckwits and having to listen to him slagging off every world leader who wasn't pro western. Would prefer the nazi personally.
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  #1088  
Old 31-08-2017, 09:09 AM
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After your last post, no one is going to disagree!
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  #1089  
Old 31-08-2017, 09:52 AM
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Rich Neo-liberal would be great, ill sponge off him while railing against the wickedness of capitalism
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  #1090  
Old 04-09-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
While the vested interests point is fair, the inability to conceptually articulate a system that works remains. Who (and how) does a person go to work in the HR department of the company that produces ink for Twix wrappers? How does this system deal with those who do not want to volunteer their time, or refuse to do shit jobs?

It's not insignificant that regimes that profess to be putting socialism into practise invariably end up committing gross human rights abuses. They all get disowned afterwards, yet there are BBSers who make excuses for Putin, Assad, Maduro, just about any nasty bastard so long as they're anti-west. Each time a "socialist" regime descended into human rights abuses and a loss of basic freedoms I don't doubt there were similar others arguing that it was for the "greater good".
This is just a crock though isn't it. When the anarchists took over Barcelona, society carried on. People still did their jobs, but things became collectivised and the hierarchies that enabled people day to day huge privileges over others both materially and psychologically were removed.

If people do shit jobs, they will do less hours, more holidays etc, and more pay. It's not particularly difficult to work that out.

I haven't made any excuses for Putin, Assad, Maduro etc.

But again you miss the point that the systems that you advocate, have multinationals that commit human rights abuses, and are linked in to a wider system of capitalism, that supports their sovereign wealth fund, which has wide spread human rights abuses, war, inequality, starvation and mass poverty. The two can't be separated.

People like you scare me because you basically try and convince others that this is as good as it can get. The inability to see beyond the current horizons is depressing.
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  #1091  
Old 27-09-2017, 10:50 AM
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Shocking article out to telling the stories of once middle class people dealing with starvation.

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  #1092  
Old 27-09-2017, 11:36 AM
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Chris Williamson MP held a pro Maduro event at the Labour conference. Only the morning star were allowed to ask questions.

No, really.

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  #1093  
Old 27-09-2017, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nicky View Post
It's why the far-left scare me as much as the far-right.
I think theres a difference though.

Far leftists can be perfectly nice people, they only become shits when they are in power. While far rightists are horrible all the time. I mean, would you rather your teenage daughter dated a revolutionary communist or a nazi? Its a no-brainer.[/QUOTE]

Both sides are nasty bastards if you disagree with them.
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  #1094  
Old 27-09-2017, 01:04 PM
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Chris Williamson MP held a pro Maduro event at the Labour conference. Only the morning star were allowed to ask questions.

No, really.

They will then blame the press for negative stories even though they do not engage.
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  #1095  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:03 PM
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Looks like they are defaulting, trouble ahead.
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  #1096  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:58 PM
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This is a good documentary, "In the shadow of the revolution". It's 50 minutes long but well worth it.

All the people interviewed are left-wing (union leaders, activists, NGO workers, etc) which is what makes it particularly interesting.

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  #1097  
Old 03-11-2017, 06:15 AM
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Looks like they are defaulting, trouble ahead.
They will blame it on the US.
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