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View Poll Results: Red or White Poppy ?
White 14 6.57%
Red 139 65.26%
Both 4 1.88%
Who cares both are fine . 28 13.15%
Moo 28 13.15%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic View Post
I see that Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was sporting a Shamrock poppy yesterday. To be honest I'd never heard of that before.
sums him up though doesn't it?
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  #282  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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As an aside, imagine the uproar here if we wore an equivalent German symbol that only commemorated their people.
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  #283  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:07 PM
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sums him up though doesn't it?
He's Fine Gael, so at least he kept up their traditional uniform of wearing a blueshirt too.
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  #284  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:18 PM
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My dad fought in Normandy, arnham, Germany.

Hey fought for many things but ultimately freedom and the right of choice which includes the option to wear a red, white or wear no poppy.

Me? I'll wear the red as usual and with pride, especially for a generation that stood up for their country and our freedom
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  #285  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
Great credit to Germany if they do that. Technically, I think, the poppy is a symbol of "our" people, not "theirs". Hopefully the poppy can be a remembrance symbol for all wars, not just "ours".

As an aside, imagine the uproar here if we wore an equivalent German symbol that only commemorated their people.
Whilst the funds raised from poppy sales do go to the British Legion, the remembrance events have commemorated the fallen in general.

There have been many examples of German and French leaders, for example, attending such events together.
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  #286  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Whilst the funds raised from poppy sales do go to the British Legion, the remembrance events have commemorated the fallen in general.

There have been many examples of German and French leaders, for example, attending such events together.
I know we can't always rely on Wikipedia but that's where I got my information before I posted. I sense though that generally it is thought it is a commonwealth thing judging by who marches and who places wreaths at the Cenotaph.
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  #287  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:35 PM
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That picture did cause an uproar and is still controversial, even now.
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  #288  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
I know we can't always rely on Wikipedia but that's where I got my information before I posted. I sense though that generally it is thought it is a commonwealth thing judging by who marches and who places wreaths at the Cenotaph.
There are wreathes laid by and for other countries as well as i
Uk and commonwealth.
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  #289  
Old 08-11-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
I know we can't always rely on Wikipedia but that's where I got my information before I posted. I sense though that generally it is thought it is a commonwealth thing judging by who marches and who places wreaths at the Cenotaph.
Itís a good thing that youíre looking into it (maybe read the British Legion site too?) and if this weekís football event helps to put across the aims of the poppy appeal to more people, then thatís a good thing too.

I hope more do that and attend a remembrance event themselves, rather than be prejudiced by those who call it jingoistic or glorifying war. Iíve never felt that at an event and if an event leader tries to hijack it into becoming like that, then that leader is at fault and deserves to be criticised.

Angela Merkel has made several appearances at events....must be emotional for her and a v tricky occasion to handle appropriately.
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  #290  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:55 PM
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I attended our remembrance parade and laid a wreath at our village memorial after which we marched back to our Legion club. Two lads ordered 8 pints at the bar and placed them on the window sill , each with a poppy next to it. They then toasted their absent friends. the beers stayed on the sill untouched all afternoon and evening. Really brought a lump to my throat.
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  #291  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:29 PM
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A red poppy
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  #292  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
Great credit to Germany if they do that. Technically, I think, the poppy is a symbol of "our" people, not "theirs". Hopefully the poppy can be a remembrance symbol for all wars, not just "ours".

As an aside, imagine the uproar here if we wore an equivalent German symbol that only commemorated their people.
I had always understood it to commemorate all the dead from the Great War, regardless of which flag they fought under.
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  #293  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:31 PM
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Something occurred to me this weekend that I hadn’t thought about recently.

When I first observed the silence with my parents as a child, I know they weren’t only thinking of those who had died in general terms, they would have been thinking also of specific individuals.

Like many of that generation, they didn’t talk about this much...it was mentally put in a box that pushed open slightly once a year. They wanted to remember, but also they didn’t want to remember. They would watch the Albert Hall event and my mother would always be quietly tearful as the poppies fell.

We’re such a lucky generation that most of us won’t have such painful and specific memories of family, colleagues, school friends who didn’t return. I mentioned to my mother once that dad didn’t often speak of mates from his time in the RAF. She said that, like many, they learned not to form close bonds with crew members as it made losing them all the harder.

Sadly he learned this lesson when a friend was killed by a propeller in an accident at their base. Can you imagine what a waste of a life that felt to them all.

Unlike the films, it wasn’t a Biggles adventure.

But I’m sure my dad thought of him, and others, every Remembrance Day.
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  #294  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:49 PM
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  #295  
Old 13-11-2017, 04:17 AM
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That does seem to be a clear generational shift that's happening.
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  #296  
Old 13-11-2017, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
Great credit to Germany if they do that. Technically, I think, the poppy is a symbol of "our" people, not "theirs". Hopefully the poppy can be a remembrance symbol for all wars, not just "ours".

As an aside, imagine the uproar here if we wore an equivalent German symbol that only commemorated their people.
Locally we have Scampton airfield up the road, its where in WW2 the Dambusters took off from still used as an airbase today its the home off the Red Arrows.
The airfield gets it name from the local village small one shop, pub, church. The church has a number of war graves in it. In the front of the church it a plot thats been tended by the villagers and the church is a plot of 9 graves of German aircrew that were killed attacking the airfield. Two of many missions but they were buried with respect, the graves looked after. So much so that the families of the Germans requested that they not be moved to the cemetery set up for other German war dead in Cannock Chase.
The point being that there was and always will be respect on both sides for those that were killed.
If you are interested its a great story one of those buried was aircrew who hitched a ride without permission for years he was posted as AWOL by the Germans. Besides Cannock is Brockwood Cemetry near Woking anyone into history of railways the one served by the London Necropolis Railway
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  #297  
Old 13-11-2017, 07:37 AM
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I see that Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was sporting a Shamrock poppy yesterday. To be honest I'd never heard of that before.

Nothing to see here. 35,000 Irish soldiers were killed in WW1 and of the 1400 approx VC's that have been awarded, about 180 have gone to Irish soldiers ( prior to 1922), they deserve respect and if people want to have a shamrock, or any other symbol to specifically remember the fallen then their tribute is no less valuable
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  #298  
Old 13-11-2017, 07:43 AM
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This is not necessarily my opinion, but something I would like to think more on.

Is it nearly time to dispense with the whole Cenotaph parade. I know that soldiers still die on active duty defending British interests. But, for me, their reasons for being in conflict zones are often conflicting. Even the Falklands fiasco was as much about winning votes and a last wag of the colonial tail. This, of course, is not the fault of the poor soldiers that get killed or maimed physically or mentally in service. But unless British soldiers are part of a UN regiment, what are we doing in some of these places. I feel it is to secure oil and fight for markets to sell arms - i.e. war is good for big business, as long as the war is somewhere else.

TBH. The cenotaph is synonomous with those that died in the two world wars. Mention is made of other conflicts, but it is what people think about on that Sunday. And while lest we forget is a great motto - WWII ended 72 years ago. At what point does history truly become history, 100, 200, 500 years.

If soldiers are being sent out on maintain or further western interests, isnt it at least time that the governments who are complicit in this great fraud stump up the cash and the care that is needed. It is their friends in the defence industry that benefit. Cant the arms industry pay for their welfare from their profits? It is not as though our military meddling has improved the lives of anyone in the middle east, and it is a convincing argument that it is perhaps the root cause.

All the time the government refuses to treat its soldiery with such contempt then the poppy appeal is necessary.

But now we have allowed a situation to develop where alternative wankers have decided to make political capital with this white poppy nonsense. There are many ways they could make their valid points, but they are being purposefully offensive in the way they chose to hijack this cause for theirs. And that makes them wankers in my book.

But there does seem to be some poppy facism going on as well. As seen on this thread, the poppy with pride brigade are quick to jump onto this with outrage. But seemingly not enough outrage to demand the government to treat its mentally ill and homeless war returnees with the respect and financial and psycological support they need.

The same people are outraged that FIFA banned football players from wearing a motif and fuming over some non/entity Irish player, and are ecstatic that both teams in the recent friendly encounter have motifs. When did we get so wrapped up in the football players must show a poppy argument? This didnt exist at all a few years back.

Do you think the politicians, and royal representive, wheeled out in the cold every Remembrance Sunday actually give a feck. I am thinking they get home, and tell their partners they are glad thats over. Leave the Cenotaph to military people and those wishing to show their support. Not the false party leaders who are only there because they will be criticised if they are not.
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  #299  
Old 13-11-2017, 08:03 AM
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This is not necessarily my opinion, but something I would like to think more on.

Is it nearly time to dispense with the whole Cenotaph parade. I know that soldiers still die on active duty defending British interests. But, for me, their reasons for being in conflict zones are often conflicting. Even the Falklands fiasco was as much about winning votes and a last wag of the colonial tail. This, of course, is not the fault of the poor soldiers that get killed or maimed physically or mentally in service. But unless British soldiers are part of a UN regiment, what are we doing in some of these places. I feel it is to secure oil and fight for markets to sell arms - i.e. war is good for big business, as long as the war is somewhere else.

TBH. The cenotaph is synonomous with those that died in the two world wars. Mention is made of other conflicts, but it is what people think about on that Sunday. And while lest we forget is a great motto - WWII ended 72 years ago. At what point does history truly become history, 100, 200, 500 years.

If soldiers are being sent out on maintain or further western interests, isnt it at least time that the governments who are complicit in this great fraud stump up the cash and the care that is needed. It is their friends in the defence industry that benefit. Cant the arms industry pay for their welfare from their profits? It is not as though our military meddling has improved the lives of anyone in the middle east, and it is a convincing argument that it is perhaps the root cause.

All the time the government refuses to treat its soldiery with such contempt then the poppy appeal is necessary.

But now we have allowed a situation to develop where alternative wankers have decided to make political capital with this white poppy nonsense. There are many ways they could make their valid points, but they are being purposefully offensive in the way they chose to hijack this cause for theirs. And that makes them wankers in my book.

But there does seem to be some poppy facism going on as well. As seen on this thread, the poppy with pride brigade are quick to jump onto this with outrage. But seemingly not enough outrage to demand the government to treat its mentally ill and homeless war returnees with the respect and financial and psycological support they need.

The same people are outraged that FIFA banned football players from wearing a motif and fuming over some non/entity Irish player, and are ecstatic that both teams in the recent friendly encounter have motifs. When did we get so wrapped up in the football players must show a poppy argument? This didnt exist at all a few years back.

Do you think the politicians, and royal representive, wheeled out in the cold every Remembrance Sunday actually give a feck. I am thinking they get home, and tell their partners they are glad thats over. Leave the Cenotaph to military people and those wishing to show their support. Not the false party leaders who are only there because they will be criticised if they are not.

Good post. I agree with all of it. I do wonder if our opinions are due to us not living in Britain and having been away for a number of years? it seems rare that people living in the UK hold similar opinions.
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  #300  
Old 13-11-2017, 12:15 PM
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All the right questions there, from Peter.
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