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  #81  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:05 PM
westsussexeagle westsussexeagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
LOL. The only demands for Totalitarian control come strictly from elements of the left at the moment with both assault on freedom of speech along with the constant and whiney demands for a second referendum on the EU because you got whooped in the first one.

And I actually think that all the little Corbies have got a good point. Corbyn was elected by the Labour membership, as per the rules. It is a bit rum for Labour MP's to try and subvert that. Anybody who thinks Corbyn should be forced out, despite the clear support of the Labour membership, strikes me as being the totalitarian ones in this debate.
Interesting points Angela although your view that claims for a second referendum only come from the left is not currently supportable. There are plenty on both sides of the political spectrum who would prefer a second ballot. Personally I don't think this will happen or indeed should happen (as I said on another thread - you will have your day or words to that effect).

However as to your ludicrous assertion that the issues within the Labour movement are tantamount to totalitarianism suggests that you have become heady with the success of the referendum. The perfect 'democracy' that you crow about is far from that - extreme populism inevitably resolves itself into some form of totalitarianism usually of the right.
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  #82  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:30 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by westsussexeagle View Post
However as to your ludicrous assertion that the issues within the Labour movement are tantamount to totalitarianism suggests that you have become heady with the success of the referendum.
Corbyn won the leadership of the Labour party on the back of the highest ever vote of Labour party members (happy to be corrected on this).

It seems quite clear that none of the supposed front-runners want to actually challenge him again via that method of selecting a leader so a large majority of the PLP are pressurising him to resign, ignoring the actual wishes of the Labour Party membership.

Seems pretty totalitarian to me.

Last edited by Mat ov CPFC; 09-07-2016 at 06:02 PM.
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  #83  
Old 09-07-2016, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Look, calling her a kipper licker was a tad over the top. And as far as I am concerned, I have apologised for that.
No, you haven't. You posted that you should apologise, and now you say you have apologised.
It is the bit in the middle, the actual apology that is missing.
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  #84  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:12 PM
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From the Guardian, looks like the Labour NEC is in for and interesting discussion...

It is understood that Labour’s national executive committee will convene a special meeting on Tuesday to rule on whether Corbyn, who has very limited support in parliament, needs to have the support of 51 MPs to get on the ballot paper alongside Eagle and any other contenders. The Labour party has taken legal advice, which indicates that he will need to find the nominees, in line with the precedent set in 1988 when Neil Kinnock was challenged by Tony Benn.



If he isn't on the ballot the left may do the splitting.
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  #85  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle View Post
It is all down to Corbyn. If he steps down but does so in a constructive way, supporting the new leadership, then the party has a chance. Any other scenario, the party splits. 30th year of party membership for me. If Corbyn and the SWP 'grassroots' remain the key drivers, then I'm am sadly out.
No problem if you feel that way, but at least make it for genuine reasons. First, SWP is tiny, down to several hundred active members these days and second, their policy is NOT to join the Labour Party, but to support Corbyn at arm's length. The second biggest Trot group is the Socialist Party of England and Wales, with another couple of hundred, which has a similar policy. There are a few even smaller grouplets - I mean a few dozen apiece - that argue for entryism, but that's in the context of a party of over half a million and growing fast.
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  #86  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:27 PM
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The Socialist Party of England and Wales. Cool acronym.
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  #87  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Blue Eagle View Post
From the Guardian, looks like the Labour NEC is in for and interesting discussion...

It is understood that Labour’s national executive committee will convene a special meeting on Tuesday to rule on whether Corbyn, who has very limited support in parliament, needs to have the support of 51 MPs to get on the ballot paper alongside Eagle and any other contenders. The Labour party has taken legal advice, which indicates that he will need to find the nominees, in line with the precedent set in 1988 when Neil Kinnock was challenged by Tony Benn.



If he isn't on the ballot the left may do the splitting.
If he isn't on the ballot the Labour Party can kiss goodbye to hundreds of thousands of potential voters.
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  #88  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:46 PM
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The Socialist Party of England and Wales. Cool acronym.
Unsportingly, they insist in their own literature on brackets, to spoil the acronym - SP(EW).
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  #89  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:48 PM
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  #90  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:50 PM
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  #91  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:04 PM
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If he isn't on the ballot the Labour Party can kiss goodbye to hundreds of thousands of potential voters.
They would lose hundreds of thousand of paying members alone overnight.
As for the Kinnock precedent,I think that's pretty desperate stuff.
Lets see what the NEC say.
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  #92  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:11 PM
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They would lose hundreds of thousand of paying members alone overnight.
As for the Kinnock precedent,I think that's pretty desperate stuff.
Lets see what the NEC say.
Agreed. I wonder what the PLP would call themselves if they decide to break away, New New Labour, or backstabbing-shite tory-lite Labour?
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  #93  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:30 PM
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If he isn't on the ballot the Labour Party can kiss goodbye to hundreds of thousands of potential voters.
And they might have a chance of retaining millions more.
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  #94  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:35 PM
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And they might have a chance of retaining millions more.
Nah. They'd be fecked. Well, more fecked. People don't like to see their elected leader toppled in coups. Seen it elsewhere.
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  #95  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
If he isn't on the ballot the Labour Party can kiss goodbye to hundreds of thousands of potential voters.
They've done that with Corbyn already. The question is which votes do they care about losing most? Those on the left who might abandon Labour for the greens and SWP?

Or those in the middle they lose to the Lib Dems and Tories?

The only way to stop Labour splitting was for Corbyn to stand down. He won't, therefore both wings of the party will fight to claim as much of it as they can.

The Tories must be laughing themselves silly
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  #96  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
They've done that with Corbyn already. The question is which votes do they care about losing most? Those on the left who might abandon Labour for the greens and SWP?

Or those in the middle they lose to the Lib Dems and Tories?

The only way to stop Labour splitting was for Corbyn to stand down. He won't, therefore both wings of the party will fight to claim as much of it as they can.

The Tories must be laughing themselves silly
Yeah i'm sure they are, despite being arguably more divided themselves.

Actually a better way to stop Labour splitting would have been to not turn on the elected leader and try to oust him in a petty way like spoilt brats, but thats by the by.

But, instead of everybody focussing on quite how the Tories have been able to divide and rule to this extent by planning and executing this amazingly divisive referendum, we are left debating the pros and cons of how left we want the Labour Party to be in the future. Quite incredibly stupid timing by the PLP and whoever assisted them.

Still i guess they'll be happy when they have an unelectable PLP face replacing a decent principled man at the top. The tory years will just fly by.

Dickheads, all of them.
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  #97  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:12 PM
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Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed.

Senior players in the parties have discussed founding a new centrist grouping in the mould of the Social Democratic party (SDP) should the two main parties polarise, according to the minister. Talks should be taken seriously, though they are still at an early stage, according to the source.
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  #98  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:22 PM
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Probably been in the pipeline as a brexit fudge plan since the result. Pitch themselves as the pro remain party, and get all their media chums onside. The name could be awkward though
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  #99  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:27 PM
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Maybe Google could sponsor it?

Or maybe call it.

The British intelligentsia towards community harmony party?
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:31 PM
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'bitch is a payback' could be their slogan
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