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  #10001  
Old 14-02-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
Keir Starmer seems to speak well ...
Hillary benn would be a sensible choice. He has enough of the right stuff for both sides of the fence, and is the best orator I have heard for years. But most of all he has intelligence, which sadly, has been in short supply over the last few years . He will know whats needed to re connect with the lost voters, because he is more in touch with them than corbyn ever has been . He also has the pedigree .
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  #10002  
Old 14-02-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
Hillary benn would be a sensible choice. He has enough of the right stuff for both sides of the fence, and is the best orator I have heard for years. But most of all he has intelligence, which sadly, has been in short supply over the last few years . He will know whats needed to re connect with the lost voters, because he is more in touch with them than corbyn ever has been . He also has the pedigree .
He's also very unpopular with a vast swathe of Labour voters due to supporting the Tory position on Defence, and bombing Syria.
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  #10003  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
Blimey, you're brave.

Looking forward to the Keir Starmer isn't a Socialist rant.
But he did pursue that bonkers Twitter joke airport thing.
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  #10004  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
He's also very unpopular with a vast swathe of Labour members due to supporting the Tory position on Defence, and bombing Syria.
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  #10005  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:03 PM
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Dya think its just the members?

I'm not sure.
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  #10006  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
But he did pursue that bonkers Twitter joke airport thing.
Yes. Although, its a while ago.
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  #10007  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
He's also very unpopular with a vast swathe of Labour voters due to supporting the Tory position on Defence, and bombing Syria.
Not sure the vast swathe was as vast as you think. He impressed just as many . He's certainly more dynamic and identifiable than corbyn, and thats what labour need now . To replace corbyn with similar is pointless . The tories are enjoying the weakest opposition for years, thanks to corbyns total ineptitude, benn in my view, would be ideal to arrest that, and at least show voters he is a viable capable leader . Corbyns whole tenure has been one of diasaster after disaster. The voters labour need, are the very ones who are walking away from such a weak and rudderless party .
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  #10008  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
He's also very unpopular with a vast swathe of Labour voters due to supporting the Tory position on Defence, and bombing Syria.
I think you overestimate his unpopularity with Labour voters, although his position on Syria might have been controversial he was widely praised in the parts of the press that are Labour friendly for the articulate way he made his argument.

Also to win an election as well as pleasing Labour voters you have to win over Lib Dems, SNPs, independents, moderate Tories, single issue UKIPers and most crucially of all (the main factor that remain ignored in their campaign) non voting people who don't usually give a shit about politics but can be pushed to the polling station if a campaign makes a big fuss that attracts their attention.

At the end of the day you just have to accept that the vast majority of the country don't want a socialist as a PM so need to quit with the ideological purity tests, it doesn't mean Labour has to become Tory-lite but find a common ground with the base. Although Blair is largely discredited due to Iraq there are more positive examples to follow such as Trudeau in Canada.
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  #10009  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
Blimey, you're brave.

Looking forward to the Keir Starmer isn't a Socialist rant.
Hardly a rant. He's clearly not.

This is what I mean. It's laughable to think that Starmer or Hilary Benn would change labours fortunes for the better. Right centrists who really do represent the urban middle class elite.
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  #10010  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
It's laughable to think that Starmer or Hilary Benn would change labours fortunes for the better.
I suppose it's all about opinions but for me it's laughable to think they wouldn't.
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  #10011  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:29 PM
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Well, if this board is anything to go by, clearly its not the vast swathe I was thinking!

Still prefer Starmer myself. But to be honest, I'll get behind anyone who might get the Tories out.
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  #10012  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:32 PM
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As for labour itself Benn would mean more civil war. He's totally unpopular with labour members who want a socialist leader.

The times ahead are polarising, and I think socialism will become more popular and the only alternative to right wing nationalism and worse. Some on here might disagree, but whether you like it or not members won't accept a leader like Benn.
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  #10013  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:32 PM
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I suppose it's all about opinions but for me it's laughable to think they wouldn't.
Isnt it just ..I mean the left wing is working so well isnt it ? who could do better than corbyn is now ? Abbot ?
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  #10014  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:33 PM
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Centrist social democratic parties who haven't shifted to the left are getting hammered across Europe.
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  #10015  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:37 PM
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Isnt it just ..I mean the left wing is working so well isnt it ? who could do better than corbyn is now ? Abbot ?
Labour has been in civil war since Corbyn was elected. Mays government would fall within weeks if it had the same.

Most social democratic parties in Europe who have stuck to the Hilary benns of the world are lucky to be hitting double figures. 25% with no support from PLP and civil war and hostile media is surprisingly good.

We needed huge reselections though to get rid of the careerist, upper middle class dross that took over nearly all the PLP under Kinnock and Blair. Amazing that so many who want workers to be represented are so servile to them.
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  #10016  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Labour has been in civil war since Corbyn was elected. Mays government would fall within weeks if it had the same.

Most social democratic parties in Europe who have stuck to the Hilary benns of the world are lucky to be hitting double figures. 25% with no support from PLP and civil war and hostile media is surprisingly good.

We needed huge reselections though to get rid of the careerist, upper middle class dross that took over nearly all the PLP under Kinnock and Blair. Amazing that so many who want workers to be represented are so servile to them.
Hamon's doing OK isn't he?
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  #10017  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Centrist social democratic parties who haven't shifted to the left are getting hammered across Europe.
whereas in the U.K. the mainstream social democratic parties who have moved to the left are getting hammered instead.

And that's with stickier voting in the U.K.

The "Corbyn's the worst performing Labour leader since Foot but anything else would be much worse" argument would be very very funny if the situation wasn't so important.
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  #10018  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:46 PM
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Hamon's doing OK isn't he?
He's to the left of Corbyn.
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  #10019  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
whereas in the U.K. the mainstream social democratic parties who have moved to the left are getting hammered instead.

And that's with stickier voting in the U.K.

The "Corbyn's the worst performing Labour leader since Foot but anything else would be much worse" argument would be very very funny if the situation wasn't so important.
25% is what centrist parties who are SD can only dream of at present. And that's with a civil war. Divided parties don't win. Labour so win needs mass reselections.

But as said whether people like it or not labour members won't accept someone like Hilary Benn.
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  #10020  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:49 PM
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Centrist social democratic parties who haven't shifted to the left are getting hammered across Europe.
Socialism has always been stronger on the continent than the UK, you can only speculate on the reasons (UK was never under fascist control, UK has generally benefited from free trade in it's history, never had a revolution or civil war in recent history, has a much larger population than many socialist countries, due to imperialism/religion ect just has more of a conservative culture) whatever the reasons it's like comparing apples to oranges. Also you have the danger that if these European countries that are not in great economic shape go hard left and the hard left ****s up (as history tells us they are prone to) then that leaves an open door for the nationalistic right.
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