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  #21  
Old 24-06-2016, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Unique Weasel View Post
Sounds like I am from a similar background to you, and am in a similar situation, I don't wish hardship on anyone apart from the big corporations and banks who I think have screwed over all of us well off and poor (I hope you at least agree on this point). I did not realize the immediate effect of leaving the EU.

Sorry if my vote today has reduced your living situation that wasn't my intention with my vote. But I truly believe that although we wont be in the EU in the near future not too much will change the Pound will bounce back everyone is panicking unnecessarily at the moment.
I used to work very closely with the unemployed, so I know all the hardships and barriers and the shitty system that attempts to deal with that. I don't bare you any animosity. I agree with a few points you've made. A message did need to be sent.

The only concern I've had is that the prospects the masses have been sold are from the very same people that screwed us over in the first place.

They created the situation, then have palmed off the blame elsewhere.

What frustrates me slightly, is examples like the below.

The BIS and SFA provided funds for the unemployed to gain access to training courses and qualifications. The Government cut this budget so harshly, many people in the sector became redundant, including myself. Companies wemt under, and certain courses stopped receiving funding. So the government made these cuts, but do you know what was still available? EU funding.

It just concerns me that people weren't fully informed of what the EU actually does and how it interacts with our society, and were just blatantly lied to.

How can one celebrate democracy when people voted on a foundation of lies? For me personally, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
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  #22  
Old 25-06-2016, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Unique Weasel View Post
Sounds like I am from a similar background to you, and am in a similar situation, I don't wish hardship on anyone apart from the big corporations and banks who I think have screwed over all of us well off and poor (I hope you at least agree on this point). I did not realize the immediate effect of leaving the EU.

Sorry if my vote today has reduced your living situation that wasn't my intention with my vote. But I truly believe that although we wont be in the EU in the near future not too much will change the Pound will bounce back everyone is panicking unnecessarily at the moment.
Sounds like you have tried to punish the wrong target.

The current government of the UK is the one responsible for your situation, and not only are they still here after Brexit, they are now going to be run by right wingers even less concerned about people like you.

Businesses that export are now going to face even more regulation, as they are going to have to deal with individual countries and their rules. More red tape, not less. You were sold a pup by snake oil salesmen.
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  #23  
Old 25-06-2016, 05:18 AM
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It's like the Welsh towns that received dollops of EU funding and voted leave. Hard to see their economics improving solely under a Westminster government with its spending priorities. They might gain in other ways: eg, a kicking for Cameron, an effort to control immigration if that's an issue on a net basis. But I can't see these towns getting more money now, probably less.
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  #24  
Old 25-06-2016, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
So there we have it - enough to say the people who led us to Brexit must now justify the economic and social impact that we were promised....

From the £350m more to spend on he NHS to the glorious economic reformation of the UK economy

Lets see over the coming months and years what will happen - given that the people who voted out will be expecting economic and social benefits of that process...

Pensions: There are 6000 DB schemes, 5000 of which have a current deficit of £360bn short of being able to meet their pension promises - today the stock market fell - that means those deficits increased - these are a real structural issue for the UK economy because as Tata and BHS demonstrate this monetary gap can bring down a company or make it impossible to sell....

DC pots - where most people are saving on an individual unit basis are all ready proving that they will not deliver enough to live out the last years of your life in a comfortable way - it takes £30 of assets to deliver £1 of cash -the average pot is £35k....and today they will have been hit even more

“UK voters have opted for Brexit. If fully followed through, this will be an act of economic self-harm with global ramifications,” said Samuel Tombs, chief UK economist at the consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics.

On stock markets, which had rallied in the run-up to the vote on misplaced optimism about a victory for remain, there were sharp falls. Banking shares were left nursing losses not seen since the collapse of US investment bank Lehman Brothers in the financial crisis of 2008.

The global stock market rout was costly for the UK’s 15 richest individuals, who between them lost £4bn during the day, according to news organisation Bloomberg’s billionaire index. Britain’s richest person, Gerald Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster, led the decline with a loss of £727m, followed by Topshop owner Philip Green, fellow land baron Earl Cadogan, and Bruno Schroder of money manager Schroders.

What are the political and social implications of an economy on the slide?
Thankfully the landowners have been promised they will keep their subsidies so the Duke of Westminster or the Queen won't be hit further. Good to see the savings being put to good use already.
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  #25  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Thankfully the landowners have been promised they will keep their subsidies so the Duke of Westminster or the Queen won't be hit further. Good to see the savings being put to good use already.
You forgot the Prince of Wales, who owns much of Cornwall
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  #26  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:26 AM
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There was an FT graph that showed those areas that were most financially dependent on the EU were those that most voted to leave.

I don't know whether that's a deliberate reaction to that EU dependence or taking things out on the wrong target
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  #27  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:34 AM
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Breaking

Leading financial rating company Moody, has just downgraded the UK to negative.
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  #28  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:43 AM
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There's more to life than the markets, FTSE, pound sterling...

Just saying
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  #29  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
There's more to life than the markets, FTSE, pound sterling...

Just saying
Well yes granted, but apart from the FTSE, the £ sterling, the markets, our credit rating, what harm is Brexit doing to our economy?

More regulations. Not less?

Oh f**k off!
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  #30  
Old 25-06-2016, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
There's more to life than the markets, FTSE, pound sterling...

Just saying
There is, but in a capitalist society we all need savings to buy the things we want in life. Ignoring the extreme rich, most people work extremely hard to get a mortgage, buy a house, go on holiday and have retirement financial security. To get these we rely on the markets. Any crash to these and millions of people have just had their hard earned savings shattered unnecessarily. Yes they might go up in a dozen, twenty years. But most forecasts suggest we'll struggle short term. Hardly desirable and potentially crushing for many.
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  #31  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
I used to work very closely with the unemployed, so I know all the hardships and barriers and the shitty system that attempts to deal with that. I don't bare you any animosity. I agree with a few points you've made. A message did need to be sent.

The only concern I've had is that the prospects the masses have been sold are from the very same people that screwed us over in the first place.

They created the situation, then have palmed off the blame elsewhere.

What frustrates me slightly, is examples like the below.

The BIS and SFA provided funds for the unemployed to gain access to training courses and qualifications. The Government cut this budget so harshly, many people in the sector became redundant, including myself. Companies wemt under, and certain courses stopped receiving funding. So the government made these cuts, but do you know what was still available? EU funding.

It just concerns me that people weren't fully informed of what the EU actually does and how it interacts with our society, and were just blatantly lied to.

How can one celebrate democracy when people voted on a foundation of lies? For me personally, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Exactly this, But the Remain campaign only have themselves to blame for not getting that across.
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  #32  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:08 AM
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Perhaps the people in the areas that voted to leave are expecting everyone to subsidise them instead?
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  #33  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:12 AM
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Exactly this, But the Remain campaign only have themselves to blame for not getting that across.
much easier and more effective to play the foreigner and NHS card.
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  #34  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
There's more to life than the markets, FTSE, pound sterling...

Just saying
You are right there is.

However because this country has a large deficit in trading the government has to borrow money to make that up. Downgrading the rating means that the government will have to pay more for the borrowing. This will result in either an even bigger deficit with more borrowing (if anyone will lend to us) tax rises or benefit cuts.

That means that it is going to have a direct impact on everyone one way or another.
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  #35  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
much easier and more effective to play the foreigner and NHS card.
Then both are off the table once Brexit had won.
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  #36  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
There was an FT graph that showed those areas that were most financially dependent on the EU were those that most voted to leave.

I don't know whether that's a deliberate reaction to that EU dependence or taking things out on the wrong target
This is the sad thing for me.

People have picked on the wrong target and given more power to those who are actually ******* them over.
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  #37  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by eagleborn View Post
There is, but in a capitalist society we all need savings to buy the things we want in life. Ignoring the extreme rich, most people work extremely hard to get a mortgage, buy a house, go on holiday and have retirement financial security. To get these we rely on the markets. Any crash to these and millions of people have just had their hard earned savings shattered unnecessarily. Yes they might go up in a dozen, twenty years. But most forecasts suggest we'll struggle short term. Hardly desirable and potentially crushing for many.
I do understand all that and i'm not belittling the real concerns and fears people are feeling at this time re. their own economic future.

But I do feel that in the last 20 years or so we've entered this mind set as a nation where finances are given far too much air time and importance. It of course suits those at the very top who stand to gain most to have the masses obsessed with capitalism: their finances, house prices etc... You need the 'slaves' to buy into your ethos to keep your power flowing.

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel we have strayed from the path somewhat, and the real hysteria over 'the economy' this last 24hrs goes a long way to prove this.
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  #38  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by swissroll View Post
You need to add on immigration, big reduction, return of those already in etc
That's not entirely clear. Some on leave are saying Britain may need to accept some version of free movement of labour to maintain market access and protect British citizens abroad.
Of course most economists are predicting there's a decent chance of a recession which would lead to a reduction in immigration.
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  #39  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:29 AM
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Fair enough Bubbs - that is consistent. You like the feel of not being part of the EU and are prepared to put up with the less pleasant consequences. I have heard that from some other Leave voters. I don't agree with it but I can understand it it. I suspect it is not the view of most of the Leavers but there is obviously a sizable portion who are happy with the situation and are prepared to take the economic hit

The problem I have with that view is that we are a small country in a large world and without the clout of the EU our bargaining position will actually be diminished and we will paradoxically have even less control of our fate than we did in the EU.
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  #40  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
I do understand all that and i'm not belittling the real concerns and fears people are feeling at this time re. their own economic future.

But I do feel that in the last 20 years or so we've entered this mind set as a nation where finances are given far too much air time and importance. It of course suits those at the very top who stand to gain most to have the masses obsessed with capitalism: their finances, house prices etc... You need the 'slaves' to buy into your ethos to keep your power flowing.

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel we have strayed from the path somewhat, and the real hysteria over 'the economy' this last 24hrs goes a long way to prove this.
Capitalism has gone bad.

Something seriously wrong when the super rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

Hard to understand why people seem to just accept it and wait for the trickle down.
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