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  #10601  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:05 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
If it results in getting more left leaning hopefuls on the ballot i'm all for it happening. Pretty hopeful Len will get re-elected and wheels will start to turn.
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  #10602  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Well we will see there is a leadership election.
Just as well the Observer let the members know then, since the Union didn't.
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  #10603  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:19 PM
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Just as well the Observer let the members know then, since the Union didn't.
Yes let's see who the members pick
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  #10604  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:24 PM
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I wonder if Jezza has snubbed her in the past. Hope so.
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  #10605  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yes let's see who the members pick
Hopefully not McCluskey. There's some well dodgy stuff going on there.

And power to the unions !
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  #10606  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:34 PM
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As CR said, no need to be defensive. Great if Unite decide through their democratic channels to help with Momentum and great if more unions do the same. No one is forcing them or being secretive - the Landsman comments were at a public meeting and it is normal for unions to help their chosen campaign groups and therefore for campaign groups to lobby them for cash. The right don't like it because they know Momentum plus Unite would be a solid block against the next coup.

Watson's tirade was daft even from his side's point of view, to go ballistic on a nothing story shows how desperate some of them are. Plus the hypocrisy of him playing the follow the money card when he's funded to the tune of 500,000 by Max Mosley. He's been caught lying about that as well.

There'll be plenty more of this kind of crap.
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  #10607  
Old 20-03-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
The right don't like it because they know Momentum plus Unite would be a solid block against the next coup. .
I suppose. I expect Mrs May will like it though. She would not be happy with a successful putsch on Jezza.
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  #10608  
Old 20-03-2017, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Despite Labour Party members saying that Corbyn is their second favourite leader ever behind Attlee.
Is that true? Blimey
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  #10609  
Old 21-03-2017, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
As CR said, no need to be defensive. Great if Unite decide through their democratic channels to help with Momentum and great if more unions do the same. No one is forcing them or being secretive - the Landsman comments were at a public meeting and it is normal for unions to help their chosen campaign groups and therefore for campaign groups to lobby them for cash. The right don't like it because they know Momentum plus Unite would be a solid block against the next coup.

Watson's tirade was daft even from his side's point of view, to go ballistic on a nothing story shows how desperate some of them are. Plus the hypocrisy of him playing the follow the money card when he's funded to the tune of 500,000 by Max Mosley. He's been caught lying about that as well.

There'll be plenty more of this kind of crap.
Pretty much, there was an obvious effort to paint it as some secretive deal and as something that needed to be defended in the reporting as well.

You could almost forget that Progress exists given current reporting of the dangers of a "party within a party" and indeed that its mostly funded by Lord Sainsbury who stopped funding Labour when Ed was elected leader.
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  #10610  
Old 21-03-2017, 07:53 AM
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McCluskey has totally denied any new link with Momentum today. Fake news again, to discredit any potential of Labour regaining favour with the public.
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  #10611  
Old 21-03-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
It's amazing that the sniping at Corbyn still produces nothing of substance as an alternative.
As I tell my son, as he tries to get out of putting any effort into his homework, you don't measure yourself by how bad everybody else is but by how good you can be.

Corbyn is an awful, awful leader of the Labour. Whether you think there is a credible alternative or not, it doesn't change this fact.
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  #10612  
Old 21-03-2017, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Is that true? Blimey
77% of those who selected Corbyn joined the party after he became leader... They also got to select up to three favourite leaders, so it's not really surprising.
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  #10613  
Old 21-03-2017, 09:53 AM
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The desperation from Labour MPs to stop a left leaning Labour getting into power and keeping the Tories in power gets worse by the day.I was initially a bit sceptical when CR was talking about reselections all round but there is literally no other way.
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  #10614  
Old 21-03-2017, 09:56 AM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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During the last month over a two week period I have seen the state of the NHS the state of Social Care in an emergency, as we lost my Mother in Law who lived with us for the last two years. Very clear very simply both are a disgrace not fit for purpose in the circumstances we found ourselves in. I am also clear in other cases the NHS is the greatest of all British institutions.
Then I sit read the total bollocks on here regarding Corbyn the state of Labour anyone who thinks he or Labour are fit for purpose as an opposition let alone as a government are delusional beyond all hope. Forget the crap about centre being dead the far left on the rise in Europe, forget the crap about fake news the bias press, forget the crap about Progress or Momentum, forget the crap about the PLP.
Labour need to resolve the crap but the issues so entrenched on both sides as it tears itself apart in what I am now convinced is the end of the once great party.
This country needs an opposition that can call to account the government of today,I have no doubt after the last month as I have said that parts of the NHS and Social Care is one such example, Brexit , schools you name the many issues. Labour Corbyn led Labour lead by any alternative are not and will not be that party..
Corbyn and his supporters should hang there heads in shame at even electing him as it will be seen as the final throw of the dice that killed the party, Unfortunatly they will have to take their heads out of their own backsides to do so. When the country most needs a strong opposition we have this shambles, heaven help us.
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  #10615  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
During the last month over a two week period I have seen the state of the NHS the state of Social Care in an emergency, as we lost my Mother in Law who lived with us for the last two years. Very clear very simply both are a disgrace not fit for purpose in the circumstances we found ourselves in. I am also clear in other cases the NHS is the greatest of all British institutions.
Then I sit read the total bollocks on here regarding Corbyn the state of Labour anyone who thinks he or Labour are fit for purpose as an opposition let alone as a government are delusional beyond all hope. Forget the crap about centre being dead the far left on the rise in Europe, forget the crap about fake news the bias press, forget the crap about Progress or Momentum, forget the crap about the PLP.
Labour need to resolve the crap but the issues so entrenched on both sides as it tears itself apart in what I am now convinced is the end of the once great party.
This country needs an opposition that can call to account the government of today,I have no doubt after the last month as I have said that parts of the NHS and Social Care is one such example, Brexit , schools you name the many issues. Labour Corbyn led Labour lead by any alternative are not and will not be that party..
Corbyn and his supporters should hang there heads in shame at even electing him as it will be seen as the final throw of the dice that killed the party, Unfortunatly they will have to take their heads out of their own backsides to do so. When the country most needs a strong opposition we have this shambles, heaven help us.
I agree with most of this,but you can't blame the current mess on people who elected Corbyn.Would you vote for someone in a general election if you didn't like them?The Labour MPs are undermining his leadership.It's a democracy,so obviously they are free to do that,but they can't then crow about the party being unelectable when they are the biggest contributing factor to it being unelectable.
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  #10616  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
The desperation from Labour MPs to stop a left leaning Labour getting into power and keeping the Tories in power gets worse by the day.
Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks.

It is people like Corbyn (and you) who are keeping the Tories in power. It is your fault. You are the enablers of this Govt. It's you.
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  #10617  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:16 AM
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I agree with most of this,but you can't blame the current mess on people who elected Corbyn.Would you vote for someone in a general election if you didn't like them?The Labour MPs are undermining his leadership.It's a democracy,so obviously they are free to do that,but they can't then crow about the party being unelectable when they are the biggest contributing factor to it being unelectable.
The biggest contributing factor is Corbyn. Corbyn is universally unpopular amongst pretty much every group, including 18-24 year olds fergawdsake. The latest ICM poll shows 18-24 year olds' voting intention:-

CON: 41%
LAB: 29%
LDEM: 10%
UKIP: 7%

Compare that to how 18-24 year olds voted at the last election:-

LAB 43%
CON 27%
GRN 8%
UKIP 8%
LDEM 5%

That's the last election - remember, the one that Labour LOST? Corbyn is destroying the Labour party, and letting the Tories run riot.

Far from shifting politics to the left, by abandoning the centre ground he's allowed the Tories to shift to the right, and it's absolutely the fault of the people who elected Corbyn. They were warned, repeatedly, and now we all have to suffer.

Pretty much all of my idealistic Corbyn-supporting friends are now ashamed that they voted him in - even people like SE25 who thought he was wonderful have seen the scales fall from their eyes.

Wake up, FFS.
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Last edited by se1eagle; 21-03-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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  #10618  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
The biggest contributing factor is Corbyn. Corbyn is universally unpopular amongst pretty much every group, including 18-24 year olds fergawdsake. The latest ICM poll shows 18-24 year olds' voting intention:-

CON: 41%
LAB: 29%
LDEM: 10%
UKIP: 7%

Compare that to how 18-24 year olds voted at the last election:-

LAB 43%
CON 27%
GRN 8%
UKIP 8%
LDEM 5%

That's the last election - remember, the one that Labour LOST? Corbyn is destroying the Labour party, and letting the Tories run riot.

Far from shifting politics to the left, by abandoning the centre ground he's allowed the Tories to shift to the right, and it's absolutely the fault of the people who elected Corbyn. They were warned, repeatedly, and now we all have to suffer.

Pretty much all of my idealistic Corbyn-supporting friends are now ashamed that they voted him in - even people like SE25 who thought he was wonderful have seen the scales fall from their eyes.

Wake up, FFS.
I will be voting for who I support the most.Unfortunately without a Labour party on the left my only choice would be the Greens so from a selfish point of view I am delighted that someone that represents my views is leader of a mainstream party and I'm not going to back away from that because people tell me he is unelectable.In terms of appeal to a wider audience,I admit that Corbyn has not been good at getting a message across and has made many mistakes but you could say that about practically every politician in the last 10 years.The fact that his own parliamentary party is desperate to keep him out of government is the biggest issue.I can't pretend it's the only issue but I can't see how you don't think it's the biggest.If Labour MPs were not doing campaign work for the Tories from the minute Corbyn was elected he would have stood a fighting chance.That's not to say he would win or that he couldn't mess up the chance on his own but now we will never know.
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  #10619  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:37 AM
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I will be voting for who I support the most.Unfortunately without a Labour party on the left my only choice would be the Greens so from a selfish point of view I am delighted that someone that represents my views is leader of a mainstream party and I'm not going to back away from that because people tell me he is unelectable.In terms of appeal to a wider audience,I admit that Corbyn has not been good at getting a message across and has made many mistakes but you could say that about practically every politician in the last 10 years.The fact that his own parliamentary party is desperate to keep him out of government is the biggest issue.I can't pretend it's the only issue but I can't see how you don't think it's the biggest.If Labour MPs were not doing campaign work for the Tories from the minute Corbyn was elected he would have stood a fighting chance.That's not to say he would win or that he couldn't mess up the chance on his own but now we will never know.
It's none of this. You are wrong.

Corbyn is unpopular. Someone like him will never be popular. He is there to tickle your tummy. And he's quite good at that.

But any Labour party led by him (or someone like him) will lose. And heavily.

The word you use is "selfish". Damn right. Ordinary people need a functioning Labour party with aspirations of power. Not a daft sect. (Like the Greens)
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  #10620  
Old 21-03-2017, 10:40 AM
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I will be voting for who I support the most.Unfortunately without a Labour party on the left my only choice would be the Greens so from a selfish point of view I am delighted that someone that represents my views is leader of a mainstream party and I'm not going to back away from that because people tell me he is unelectable.

In terms of appeal to a wider audience,I admit that Corbyn has not been good at getting a message across and has made many mistakes but you could say that about practically every politician in the last 10 years.
Could you? Is there another leader who's presided over such a monumental decline of their party? And don't say Blair - remember Ed Miliband was the non-Blairite choice. Ever since Blair Labour has shifted more and more to the left, and has paid the penalty - the more to the left it's shifted, the more it's lost support.

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The fact that his own parliamentary party is desperate to keep him out of government is the biggest issue.I can't pretend it's the only issue but I can't see how you don't think it's the biggest.If Labour MPs were not doing campaign work for the Tories from the minute Corbyn was elected he would have stood a fighting chance.
This is just rubbish. His parliamentary party are not desperate to keep him out of government - they just have enough nouse to realise that there's no way he will ever reach government. The only way Labour can reach government is to split the Tory vote - you're not going to do it by appealing to non-voters or some other magical demographic that doesn't exist. We need to take votes from the 11.3m who voted Tory last time, and becoming more left-wing is not going to do it.
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