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  #121  
Old 10-07-2016, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Angela Eagle
We may get to put that theory to the test soon
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  #122  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
Always interested to hear suggestions of alternatives that could beat him in a democratic and fairly, openly debated leadership contest
The entire conservative party, including Michael Gove.

Or did you just mean to lead the protest party he's merrily turning Labour into?
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  #123  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
The entire conservative party, including Michael Gove.

Or did you just mean to lead the protest party he's merrily turning Labour into?


No, just the party he was elected leader of with a massive mandate not 10 months ago.

Do I take it from that, that you can't think of a suitable challenger that you think could beat him by fair means, and not foul?
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  #124  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:08 AM
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So what do people think of the attempts to not allow Corbyn onto the ballot paper.

The clue is in the word challenge. The in incumbent should automatically make the ballot!
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  #125  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post


No, just the party he was elected leader of with a massive mandate not 10 months ago.

Do I take it from that, that you can't think of a suitable challenger that you think could beat him by fair means, and not foul?
I've no idea to be honest. I don't know labour MPs well enough. If Corbyn really is the best they've got, good help them. He's awful.

I can't say I'm particularly impressed by his "mandate" of 2.5% of labour voters. Yes, momentum did very well to sign up the hard-left to get him in. If the party similarly use the rules to get him out, tough.

The only thing that really matters of a leader is whether they'll win an election.

And Labour are waaaay behind in the polls and don't look like taking any of the 50+ seats they need to swing to win power.
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  #126  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
So what do people think of the attempts to not allow Corbyn onto the ballot paper.

The clue is in the word challenge. The in incumbent should automatically make the ballot!
I gather when trying to unseat Kinnock he and Benn didn't extend that courtesy, so I've got no sympathy.

What's good for the goose...
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  #127  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I've no idea to be honest. I don't know labour MPs well enough. If Corbyn really is the best they've got, good help them. He's awful.

I can't say I'm particularly impressed by his "mandate" of 2.5% of labour voters. Yes, momentum did very well to sign up the hard-left to get him in. If the party similarly use the rules to get him out, tough.

The only thing that really matters of a leader is whether they'll win an election.

And Labour are waaaay behind in the polls and don't look like taking any of the 50+ seats they need to swing to win power.
And all this time I thought you were Labour. Just kidding.

You'll forgive me for not taking much notice of polls or most of the media these days.
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  #128  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:18 AM
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I cannot believe Angela Eagle is the best alternative to Corbyn.

Strikes me a massive sacrificial lamb who has been manipulated by the power brokers within the Labour party.

Nobody credible wants to stand against Corbyn as under the current rules they would risk losing.
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  #129  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:18 AM
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Either way the Labour Party has problems. I think someone earlier said excluding him would cause a split and allowing him on less likely to but I would have it the other way.

If they exclude him there is a good chance the PLP will stay largely intact, but it will have alienated its support and donors.

If they allow him on and he then wins is would be almost impossible for many/most of the PLP who voted against him to stay on and they should consider their futures.
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  #130  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
So what do people think of the attempts to not allow Corbyn onto the ballot paper.

The clue is in the word challenge. The in incumbent should automatically make the ballot!
It looks like the rules say that the incumbent should be on the ballot automatically. However Kinnock had to gain nominations in 1988 which may set a precedent - Corbyn supporters say the rules have since changed in moving to one member one vote, PLP supporters say the rules that changed are unrelated to the ballot question.

My own view is that the rule for challengers exists for a reason, and isn't just a technicality - to have a potential leader who doesn't command at least a reasonable slice of the PLP is simply not sustainable. That reason doesn't become less important if the potential leader is the incumbent.
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  #131  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle-leg View Post
I cannot believe Angela Eagle is the best alternative to Corbyn.

Strikes me a massive sacrificial lamb who has been manipulated by the power brokers within the Labour party.

Nobody credible wants to stand against Corbyn as under the current rules they would risk losing.
She lost to Tom Watson in the deputy race last year. She is an ABC candidate.
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  #132  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:21 AM
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Just watching eagle on sunday politics. She's an absolute shambles lol
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  #133  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
It looks like the rules say that the incumbent should be on the ballot automatically. However Kinnock had to gain nominations in 1988 which may set a precedent - Corbyn supporters say the rules have since changed in moving to one member one vote, PLP supporters say the rules that changed are unrelated to the ballot question.

My own view is that the rule for challengers exists for a reason, and isn't just a technicality - to have a leader who doesn't command at least a reasonable slice of the PLP is simply not sustainable. That reason doesn't become less important if the leader is the incumbent.
Is the leader their to represent the PLP, the party members of the general public? That should then define who gets the say.
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  #134  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Is the leader their to represent the PLP, the party members of the general public? That should then define who gets the say.
They have to represent both the 500k members and the PLP, and the millions of Labour voters who elected the PLP. It's not either/or.
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  #135  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Is the leader their to represent the PLP, the party members of the general public? That should then define who gets the say.
It should be all three. Hence the need to be nominated by MPs in the first place. The biggest mistake was the idiots who leant Jeremy their nomination in the the first place.

The far left took advantage of the rules, certainly not the spirit of them to hijack the Labour Party. If the moderates use a technicality I the rules to take it back then I don't really see how the far left can claim foul.
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  #136  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:34 AM
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  #137  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:39 AM
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The far left took advantage of the rules, certainly not the spirit of them to hijack the Labour Party.
It seems that whoever created the rules couldn't conceive of a situation where a party leader who did not have the support of a minimum number of MPs would be so stubborn, so ideologically determined, to cling on without caring that it would split the party. They obviously didn't bank on Jeremy Corbyn.
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  #138  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:42 AM
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No, just the party he was elected leader of with a massive mandate not 10 months ago.

Do I take it from that, that you can't think of a suitable challenger that you think could beat him by fair means, and not foul?
The PLP was deliberately set up as separate entity from the party's inception. It was only in the mid eighties that the selection of a leader was opened up to outside the PLP and that system has been through some change too. The very new one we have now only came about as a result of union manipulation if you remember.

So it's hardly historically turning the clock back ha ing the PLP assert more authority. Even under the previous system they had a third of the vote.
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  #139  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:49 AM
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The PLP was deliberately set up as separate entity from the party's inception. It was only in the mid eighties that the selection of a leader was opened up to outside the PLP and that system has been through some change too. The very new one we have now only came about as a result of union manipulation if you remember.

So it's hardly historically turning the clock back ha ing the PLP assert more authority. Even under the previous system they had a third of the vote.
In that case let them put up a better candidate and try to win fairly.
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  #140  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:50 AM
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If Eagle is leader she'd poll less than Ed M at a general election.
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