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  #1101  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
A genuine view doesn't excuse the view from being a racist or bigoted view.

Or an ignorant or misinformed one.

If I read someone spouting shit, that genuine opinion isn't excused from being a turd of an opinion.
See discussion of gay marriage.

Being polite about it doesnt make it any less of a turd of an opinion.
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  #1102  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
My mind hasn't changed.

I don't come on here and spout rubbish though. I don't come on here and say gay's are the scourge of the planet, or this country. Nor do I think gay's are a threat to my life or way of life. Nor do I care how gay people choose to categorise their relationship, as long as people don't make a mockery of my faith in trying to shoe horn it in as an acceptable union. Criticise it as a negative if it is to be done, however, let's not dilute and turn something into a lie.

While many on here indulge in "banter" with homophobic language, I've never done so, and don't do so in my everyday life. It's called mutual respect.

Gay people know my views, genuine dialogue opens up a non hostile understanding. That's what it really means to have a discussion and to oppose a differing view yet not let it sour a relationship.

Let's say my views are bigoted in context of what is widely acceptable in society. Which most would say they are.

What specific hate speech would you accuse me of? What vendetta or agenda would you accuse me of? Have you ever seen me on any of those threads taking the piss out of Brighton? Or those threads where you get people banging on about PC gone mad and sexual identity? Do you ever see me jumping in with anti gay sentiment just because it's linked with my views?

The same rights that protect me also protect homosexuals. I am happy to protect and defend those. I have done more to improve the life of some homosexuals than a majority on this board.

I personally think you do me a great disservice by equating my views, which by society's standards you can say would be considered bigoted, with the type of dullards who post on here thinking they can pass off their regurgitation of their favourite preachers as some form of reasoned and refined critique of a particular topic.

I'm happy to be labelled a bigot if it helps to take down every other bigoted **** with me. If I am a bigot, then I am confident most people on here are. Especially westcountryboy.

As evidence of what dialogue can do, it's obvious that you and I have incredibly differing perceptions of life, however, I have found our conversations always of a courteous and respectful nature. There are plenty of reasons why I respond to someone like yourself in a considered manner, which I don't afford others.
Youíre correct in that you donít attempt to impose your view on others...

Itís a view that doesnít fit with your more tolerant views on other subjects and Does you a disservice.
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  #1103  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Hmmmm, I suspect many thought you were more tolerant than this
I think my level of tolerance is perfectly adequate for a world in which people disagree a lot about many things.
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  #1104  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old geezer View Post
So by definition anyone that holds an opinion you disagree holds a turd of an opinion
Says a lot about you and your opinions
Mat Ov's opinion was that most people wouldn't want a foreigner living next door to them. Feel free to defend that if you want.
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  #1105  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
You are a special div.. Little man syndrome again wetarse?
Coming from the expert seether. Lol trying to deflect your own issues on others again.
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  #1106  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Take away the diplomatic waffle and this could be a Matov post.
I'm not planning to march on Parliament anytime soon.
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  #1107  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old geezer View Post
So by definition anyone that holds an opinion you disagree holds a turd of an opinion
Says a lot about you and your opinions
I'd be interested to hear how you came to that definition.
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  #1108  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little al View Post
Spot on. And a lovely bloke irl too.
He was a lovely bloke Al, no doubt. The change in him was frightening.
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  #1109  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
My mind hasn't changed.

I don't come on here and spout rubbish though. I don't come on here and say gay's are the scourge of the planet, or this country. Nor do I think gay's are a threat to my life or way of life. Nor do I care how gay people choose to categorise their relationship, as long as people don't make a mockery of my faith in trying to shoe horn it in as an acceptable union. Criticise it as a negative if it is to be done, however, let's not dilute and turn something into a lie.

While many on here indulge in "banter" with homophobic language, I've never done so, and don't do so in my everyday life. It's called mutual respect.

Gay people know my views, genuine dialogue opens up a non hostile understanding. That's what it really means to have a discussion and to oppose a differing view yet not let it sour a relationship.

Let's say my views are bigoted in context of what is widely acceptable in society. Which most would say they are.

What specific hate speech would you accuse me of? What vendetta or agenda would you accuse me of? Have you ever seen me on any of those threads taking the piss out of Brighton? Or those threads where you get people banging on about PC gone mad and sexual identity? Do you ever see me jumping in with anti gay sentiment just because it's linked with my views?

The same rights that protect me also protect homosexuals. I am happy to protect and defend those. I have done more to improve the life of some homosexuals than a majority on this board.

I personally think you do me a great disservice by equating my views, which by society's standards you can say would be considered bigoted, with the type of dullards who post on here thinking they can pass off their regurgitation of their favourite preachers as some form of reasoned and refined critique of a particular topic.

I'm happy to be labelled a bigot if it helps to take down every other bigoted **** with me. If I am a bigot, then I am confident most people on here are. Especially westcountryboy.

As evidence of what dialogue can do, it's obvious that you and I have incredibly differing perceptions of life, however, I have found our conversations always of a courteous and respectful nature. There are plenty of reasons why I respond to someone like yourself in a considered manner, which I don't afford others.

Iím just pointing out that people justify their prejudices in all different types of ways. Just because someone doesnít go round calling gays poofs, doesnít make their beliefs that gays shouldnít be treated equally any less damaging. Youíre a good man kippy... I sincerely hope you change your views on treating gays equally.
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Last edited by mushroom; 12-06-2018 at 07:24 AM.
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  #1110  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
I think my level of tolerance is perfectly adequate for a world in which people disagree a lot about many things.
If you had kids all grown up and your kind son or lovely daughter were gay and each were in a loving relationship of many years would you turn up to their civil partnership/wedding assuming you were first on the invite list?

Kudos for the previous long post btw. Someone who is being honest about their own possible bigotry. A rare find.
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  #1111  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
My mind hasn't changed.

I don't come on here and spout rubbish though. I don't come on here and say gay's are the scourge of the planet, or this country. Nor do I think gay's are a threat to my life or way of life. Nor do I care how gay people choose to categorise their relationship, as long as people don't make a mockery of my faith in trying to shoe horn it in as an acceptable union. Criticise it as a negative if it is to be done, however, let's not dilute and turn something into a lie.

While many on here indulge in "banter" with homophobic language, I've never done so, and don't do so in my everyday life. It's called mutual respect.

Gay people know my views, genuine dialogue opens up a non hostile understanding. That's what it really means to have a discussion and to oppose a differing view yet not let it sour a relationship.

Let's say my views are bigoted in context of what is widely acceptable in society. Which most would say they are.

What specific hate speech would you accuse me of? What vendetta or agenda would you accuse me of? Have you ever seen me on any of those threads taking the piss out of Brighton? Or those threads where you get people banging on about PC gone mad and sexual identity? Do you ever see me jumping in with anti gay sentiment just because it's linked with my views?

The same rights that protect me also protect homosexuals. I am happy to protect and defend those. I have done more to improve the life of some homosexuals than a majority on this board.

I personally think you do me a great disservice by equating my views, which by society's standards you can say would be considered bigoted, with the type of dullards who post on here thinking they can pass off their regurgitation of their favourite preachers as some form of reasoned and refined critique of a particular topic.

I'm happy to be labelled a bigot if it helps to take down every other bigoted **** with me. If I am a bigot, then I am confident most people on here are. Especially westcountryboy.

As evidence of what dialogue can do, it's obvious that you and I have incredibly differing perceptions of life, however, I have found our conversations always of a courteous and respectful nature. There are plenty of reasons why I respond to someone like yourself in a considered manner, which I don't afford others.
Like all faiths that down the years that have frowned on homosexuality, eventually these views that have given a justification to discrimination have become more marginilised and a different interpretation of the teachings has meant that giving rights and accepting homosexuality has not been at odds with the faiths teachings for the majority of its followers.

The Islamic faith maybe has some catching up to do in this respect, but do you not see this happening eventually?
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  #1112  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
See discussion of gay marriage.

Being polite about it doesnt make it any less of a turd of an opinion.
I'm sure there have been discussions surrounding what exactly is the point of "marriage" in itself?

Admittedly, I find it incredibly perplexing that for a society that places little value or sanctity in the construct of marriage, it seems to just be a litmus test on one's perceived tolerance and nothing else.

The question is, what are people even getting married for?

I digress.
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  #1113  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:54 AM
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I think those tribes/societies that wholly accept a 'third gender', and in some of these places the 'thirds' are revered, have gone down right road. Others have veered off into moral cul-de-sacs and don't know how to reverse out.
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  #1114  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
I'm sure there have been discussions surrounding what exactly is the point of "marriage" in itself?

Admittedly, I find it incredibly perplexing that for a society that places little value or sanctity in the construct of marriage, it seems to just be a litmus test on one's perceived tolerance and nothing else.

The question is, what are people even getting married for?

I digress.
Scrap it or keep it. If you keep it, treat everyone equally.
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  #1115  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
My mind hasn't changed.

I don't come on here and spout rubbish though. I don't come on here and say gay's are the scourge of the planet, or this country. Nor do I think gay's are a threat to my life or way of life. Nor do I care how gay people choose to categorise their relationship, as long as people don't make a mockery of my faith in trying to shoe horn it in as an acceptable union. Criticise it as a negative if it is to be done, however, let's not dilute and turn something into a lie.

While many on here indulge in "banter" with homophobic language, I've never done so, and don't do so in my everyday life. It's called mutual respect.

Gay people know my views, genuine dialogue opens up a non hostile understanding. That's what it really means to have a discussion and to oppose a differing view yet not let it sour a relationship.

Let's say my views are bigoted in context of what is widely acceptable in society. Which most would say they are.

What specific hate speech would you accuse me of? What vendetta or agenda would you accuse me of? Have you ever seen me on any of those threads taking the piss out of Brighton? Or those threads where you get people banging on about PC gone mad and sexual identity? Do you ever see me jumping in with anti gay sentiment just because it's linked with my views?

The same rights that protect me also protect homosexuals. I am happy to protect and defend those. I have done more to improve the life of some homosexuals than a majority on this board.

I personally think you do me a great disservice by equating my views, which by society's standards you can say would be considered bigoted, with the type of dullards who post on here thinking they can pass off their regurgitation of their favourite preachers as some form of reasoned and refined critique of a particular topic.

I'm happy to be labelled a bigot if it helps to take down every other bigoted **** with me. If I am a bigot, then I am confident most people on here are. Especially westcountryboy.

As evidence of what dialogue can do, it's obvious that you and I have incredibly differing perceptions of life, however, I have found our conversations always of a courteous and respectful nature. There are plenty of reasons why I respond to someone like yourself in a considered manner, which I don't afford others.
Trouble is some people are born gay, it is not a choice. You may excuse your conscience by playing hate the sin love the sinner card but deep down you know that gayness including gay marriage harms no one.

Millions of Muslims are born gay, whose fault is it that their being is incompatible with their religion theirs or their creator's?
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  #1116  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
The ones that are calling him out as a racist and in the next breath saying I still speak to him I have his number you mean ? . Internet hypocrites ? Who knew .. Showboaters eh . I'd love some of these dicks to have seen what I did in Bosnia, I think their interpretation of racism would be very different . A few words probably spoken in jest, or under the influence wouldn't even register as risque in comparison . Virtue signalling at its worst. And yes, I will ignore the wankers in future , they actually do the cause more harm than good .
Surely it's not hypocritical if you say it about him on here AND you say it to his face irl? In fact, that's the opposite of hypocritical. I kind of get the point you are making - I'm sure you saw stuff that makes some nasty comments pale into insignificance in comparison, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be alert to bigotry in all it's forms. Seeing supporting of TR making heil hitler gestures should sicken any right minded person to their core.
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  #1117  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
Someone who is being honest about their own possible bigotry. A rare find.
True, except it's not possible bigotry, it is bigotry.
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  #1118  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:47 AM
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^^^^^

Indeed and there would have been a point in Bosnia before the killings where some demagogues would have been verbally stoking the fire which turned into genocidal atrocity. Those voices are to blame too and not just the killers.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
^^^^^

Indeed and there would have been a point in Bosnia before the killings where some demagogues would have been verbally stoking the fire which turned into genocidal atrocity. Those voices are to blame too and not just the killers.
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting for a moment that we are about to go down that road in this country, but being alert to the extremists, on both sides, the hate preachers and the bigots who want to try and normalise this level of discussion is pretty important I'd say. Excise it before it becomes dangerous.
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  #1120  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
True, except it's not possible bigotry, it is bigotry.
I left that door slightly ajar for my next post about whether he would attend his gay son/daughter's wedding which he, unfortunately, didn't answer. Yep. Bigotry.

Stupid thing, of course, is that if his 'holy text' had said something like 'Acceptance of all people regardless of preference is accepting God truth' his ilk would be at the head of the next Rainbow march showing the lord's lurrrve.

Amazing how a book of fairy tales can brainwash grown-ups.
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