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View Poll Results: Would you participate in a Yellow vest protest in the UK ? .
Yes 28 17.83%
No 104 66.24%
Don't know 10 6.37%
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  #301  
Old 12-01-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
  • Do you judge things with your eyes?
Interesting.

No use of brain involved?
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  #302  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
These people?

To view the link you have to Register or Login

Seriously you need to stop trying to play the 'racist' card. You are embarrassing yourself.
Once again you use the same language as the right wing, talking about the racist card. You repeat myths about immigration bringing down wages but pretend you are pro worker.

And no not those people. The far right hanging around outside Parliament.
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  #303  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
Interesting.

No use of brain involved?
Raggy believes the twin towers were brought down by explosives. ĎNuff said.
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  #304  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I still harp on about the Asian Brit that was on question time with the the leader of the NF/BNP and she ripped him a new one but she said we should be able to talk about immigration intelligently without people using the race card every time it is brought up...I have not seen all of Raggy's posts but has he said or brought up anything Racist when giving an opinion about Immigration or is it all leavers are racist type deal because they had concerns about immigration?
A lot of so called concerns about immigration are racist, yeah. Including blaming migrants for falling wages and the effects of austerity.

A big load of the press pump out anti migrant stuff day in, day out, but then apparently you canít say anything now days because of political correctness and the race card. Itís the language of the right and an attempt to make racist views acceptable.
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  #305  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:59 PM
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Raggy believes the twin towers were brought down by explosives. ĎNuff said.
Seriously?
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  #306  
Old 12-01-2019, 11:09 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is online now
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
Any race can be racist of course.

Some questions for you -
  • Can a protest be racist when it a variety of races are participating? If yes, who is it racist against exactly?
  • Can someone be 'hard right', but not racist? If yes, what does 'hard right' mean?
  • Can you be internationalist, but also pro-EU, when the EU excludes non-christian and non-European states from joining or trading on an equal basis? Is this racist in itself?
  • Can you deride patriotism for a single nation, while being fervently waving the flag of an exclusive group of white Christian nations? What is the difference?
  • Do you judge things with your eyes, or let media and news corporations define things for you? Do you always accept whatever definitions the media tell you, even if it contradicts the evidence of your own eyes?
Actually in hindsight cockney has a point above. I say this within the realms of our recently signed peace treaty. These questions are right out of a far right playbook.

2. Define the far right. Define racism within the realms of the far right. Do your best as I will try to shut this down with my response
3. Whataboutery about the Eu
4. Patriotism - define why it is bad
5. Are you blind to what is going on

My initial reaction was they were a bit weird, particularly 2, 3, 4, 5 which bear no resemblance to any post exchange we have ever had. I answered them legitimately given the fact that I recently agreed to engage properly with you and my answers stand. It’s why I was asked them that I am now questioning.

I question how you saw that video on you tube published by a Goddard minion, shared 250 times and why you were one of those 250 in the whole of the uk and why you shared it here - several times. If you weren’t one of the 250, who sent it to you and why?

It’s also interesting that you ignored my immediate response that its “ive got a black mate whataboutery” and posed your questions after I had already made that point.

I think cockney may have honed his hammer and nail on head skills.

Back to point 5. This is what it means to not judge things on face value but question the source, the origin of the source, is it primary or secondary, what is its purpose, in this instance how did you get it, and finally why do you use it to defend the racist Goddard and his mates. If I recall correctly you also posted the one about the 13 year old girl. Interesting you have been so quick to post the two ‘whataboutery’ videos filmed by Goddard and his mates to shut down debate about racist fascists.
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  #307  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
A lot of so called concerns about immigration are racist, yeah. Including blaming migrants for falling wages and the effects of austerity.

A big load of the press pump out anti migrant stuff day in, day out, but then apparently you can’t say anything now days because of political correctness and the race card. It’s the language of the right and an attempt to make racist views acceptable.
I don't think thats what I am talking about here or was the lady that I talked about when on question time when she said that immigration should be talked about openly and not made into a taboo subject just because the far right uses it for their horrible agenda.

Again you can have feelings and thoughts about controlled immigration/Freedom of movement without being a bigot or a racist as long as it's about what you feel uncontrolled immigration or how free movement affects you.

Free movement to me was wonderful to the French woman selling me a sandwich in Croydon to Biggus earning a living in Spain freely.

But thats me others have concerns.

If someone says immigrants are a strain on jobs, infrastructure,housing and welfare payments again thats not racist to say so, you may be fecking completly and utterly wrong which I think so but it does not make you racist maybe just ignorant of the financial,cultural benefits immigrants and immigration brings.

But some of you want to focus upon the far right and connect it to posters when they talk about immigration because it is a very easy way out to discredit not just their opinion on this subject but the poster completely.

It's a cop out.
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  #308  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:17 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is online now
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I don't think thats what I am talking about here or was the lady that I talked about when on question time when she said that immigration should be talked about openly and not made into a taboo subject just because the far right uses it for their horrible agenda.

Again you can have feelings and thoughts about controlled immigration/Freedom of movement without being a bigot or a racist as long as it's about what you feel uncontrolled immigration or how free movement affects you.

Free movement to me was wonderful to the French woman selling me a sandwich in Croydon to Biggus earning a living in Spain freely.

But thats me others have concerns.

If someone says immigrants are a strain on jobs, infrastructure,housing and welfare payments again thats not racist to say so, you may be fecking completly and utterly wrong which I think so but it does not make you racist maybe just ignorant of the financial,cultural benefits immigrants and immigration brings.

But some of you want to focus upon the far right and connect it to posters when they talk about immigration because it is a very easy way out to discredit not just their opinion on this subject but the poster completely.

It's a cop out.
I donít Les. See my post above

I didnít even mention immigration
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  #309  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I donít Les. See my post above

I didnít even mention immigration
It's not always about you LOL
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  #310  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:27 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I don't think thats what I am talking about here or was the lady that I talked about when on question time when she said that immigration should be talked about openly and not made into a taboo subject just because the far right uses it for their horrible agenda.

Again you can have feelings and thoughts about controlled immigration/Freedom of movement without being a bigot or a racist as long as it's about what you feel uncontrolled immigration or how free movement affects you.

Free movement to me was wonderful to the French woman selling me a sandwich in Croydon to Biggus earning a living in Spain freely.

But thats me others have concerns.

If someone says immigrants are a strain on jobs, infrastructure,housing and welfare payments again thats not racist to say so, you may be fecking completly and utterly wrong which I think so but it does not make you racist maybe just ignorant of the financial,cultural benefits immigrants and immigration brings.

But some of you want to focus upon the far right and connect it to posters when they talk about immigration because it is a very easy way out to discredit not just their opinion on this subject but the poster completely.

It's a cop out.
But itís not a taboo. The idea that itís a taboo is a joke. Itís talked about day in, day out, all over the press and tv. A lot of it in a bigoted way, some as a discussion. If people are ďplaying the race cardĒ it doesnít seem to be having much effect. In reality the whole playing the race card agenda is mainly used to play down bigotry that people face.

You can have whatever feelings what you want but if someone repeats myths about migrants pushing down wages and causing problems with public services, then like it or not they are playing in to a racist and right wing agenda even if the individual isnít a racist. Although have to say from my experience most people Iíve ever met that bang on about that are racist.

Iíve never compared people to the far right for talking about immigration.
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  #311  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
It's not always about you LOL
Les it’s a continuation of your point. It’s discussing your point. It’s pointing out that your point isn’t the whole point and your point has other facets.

Or are you suggesting that you are right - end of discussion?

Not Always about me lol
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Last edited by Hpalace; 13-01-2019 at 12:32 AM.
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  #312  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I don’t Les. See my post above

I didn’t even mention immigration
I found your post defensive (I could be wrong) and of course I am not saying end of discussion I am right,wouldn't that be cool and a first on here

Has that ever happened to anyone.
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  #313  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I found your post defensive (I could be wrong) and of course I am not saying end of discussion I am right,wouldn't that be cool

Has that ever happened to anyone on here
My post wasn’t defensive in the slightest although in hindsight I can understand why it could be read that way.

My post was emboldening a specific part of your post and referring it to the above where I have at length discussed the far right, dodgy links, shutting down of debate and asking really weird out of context questions - without mentioning immigration once.

I was building on your point and questioning it not defending myself.

My point was there are other factors to cockneys point.

And yes it would be cool. Although a bit fascist
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  #314  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
But itís not a taboo. The idea that itís a taboo is a joke. Itís talked about day in, day out, all over the press and tv. A lot of it in a bigoted way, some as a discussion. If people are ďplaying the race cardĒ it doesnít seem to be having much effect. In reality the whole playing the race card agenda is mainly used to play down bigotry that people face.

You can have whatever feelings what you want but if someone repeats myths about migrants pushing down wages and causing problems with public services, then like it or not they are playing in to a racist and right wing agenda even if the individual isnít a racist. Although have to say from my experience most people Iíve ever met that bang on about that are racist.

Iíve never compared people to the far right for talking about immigration.
Straight away from your post you see the bigoted way first,it's what you look for so obviously it spills over into judging people on here...

I like to give the benefit first rather than the accusations that someone because they do not like free movement of have concerns about immigration are racists..You are labeling people,pointing the finger which is wrong.

And there's the Taboo if you talk about Immigration or free movement in your mind you are falling into the right wing agenda.....No you are not again you do not have to be right wing, a racist or a bigot to have concerns about immigration.
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  #315  
Old 13-01-2019, 01:17 AM
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The Tories won the general election on a platform of austerity. Get over it. Accept the will of the people. Stop being undemocratic.
I don't think you understand the concept of democracy.
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  #316  
Old 13-01-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Straight away from your post you see the bigoted way first,it's what you look for so obviously it spills over into judging people on here...

I like to give the benefit first rather than the accusations that someone because they do not like free movement of have concerns about immigration are racists..You are labeling people,pointing the finger which is wrong.

And there's the Taboo if you talk about Immigration or free movement in your mind you are falling into the right wing agenda.....No you are not again you do not have to be right wing, a racist or a bigot to have concerns about immigration.
There is no taboo. Be honest, itís discussed endlessly day in, day out, to the farcical rubbish about there being a crisis because a couple of hundred people crossed the channel. Itís on front page after front page. The idea that it canít be talked about is just pie in the sky.

And itís not about seeing bigotry straight away, it depends how someone says something and how often. Repeating myths over and over about migrants driving down wages and harming public services, even when youíve been shown its a load of bollocks, is feeding a racist and right wing agenda.

Just as you say Iím looking for bigotry, I could just as well say you gloss over it too much.
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  #317  
Old 13-01-2019, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There is no taboo. Be honest, itís discussed endlessly day in, day out, to the farcical rubbish about there being a crisis because a couple of hundred people crossed the channel. Itís on front page after front page. The idea that it canít be talked about is just pie in the sky.

And itís not about seeing bigotry straight away, it depends how someone says something and how often. Repeating myths over and over about migrants driving down wages and harming public services, even when youíve been shown its a load of bollocks, is feeding a racist and right wing agenda.

Just as you say Iím looking for bigotry, I could just as well say you gloss over it too much.
Bigotry is bigotry you even excuse it when it suits you politicly and we both know who glosses over bigotry don't we...What did you say, What he said was bigotry but he is not a bigot ?

The taboo happens when immigration or free movement is talked about sensibly with no malice but people like you will point the finger making sure the conversation is shut down due to the race card and your far right wing labeling..You have used this twice already feeding your own paranoia rather than any right wing agenda on here.

I'm the same with the flags just because a very few bigoted racists wave a flag I don't let them own it nor do millions of others.
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  #318  
Old 13-01-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
I don't think you understand the concept of democracy.
Democracy is a single vote, a snapshot in time, on something a bit vague and then refusing to let the electorate have any further say in the matter. It's certainly not allowing the public to change their mind
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  #319  
Old 13-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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The electorate shouldn't engage in yellow vest stuff. They should pressurise the Tories and Labour to increase wages, have guaranteed sick and holiday pay, provide decent pensions, train young people in vocational skills, make big business pay suppliers promptly, have decent care for the elderly, provide free care for two year olds, cut rents, force landlords to improve sub standard accommodation and help families on to the housing ladder.
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  #320  
Old 13-01-2019, 11:24 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Bigotry is bigotry you even excuse it when it suits you politicly and we both know who glosses over bigotry don't we...What did you say, What he said was bigotry but he is not a bigot ?

The taboo happens when immigration or free movement is talked about sensibly with no malice but people like you will point the finger making sure the conversation is shut down due to the race card and your far right wing labeling..You have used this twice already feeding your own paranoia rather than any right wing agenda on here.

I'm the same with the flags just because a very few bigoted racists wave a flag I don't let them own it nor do millions of others.
Your first paragraph is strange as you have said yourself that because people make remarks that are wrong it doesn’t make them a racist. I would agree with this depending on what was said and how. Which is why I’ve talked about repeating myths about migrants feeds in to a racist and right wing agenda.

I’m not finger pointing, I’m pointing out that myths about migrants and FOM are being repeated again and again, despite being shown they aren’t true. As said migration is talked about all the time and freely, and the malice that is shown is the huge amount of coverage that is attacking migrants. To focus not on that but on the fact that some people making anti migrant statements might feel uncomfortable is strange. Although you do spend a lot more time on here making digs about left wing posters then right wing ones.

Again you repeat the race card statement when in reality the whole race card thing is used to stop people who have suffered racism from speaking about it.

Last edited by cockneyrebel; 13-01-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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