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  #41  
Old 15-01-2014, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo's hair View Post
The more money that is pumped into the game the more that is sp**ked on players wages agents fees trandfer fees etc exceeding the income. No business is run like football. It wouldn't be a business for long if it was.
Strange though it may seem, football clubs perform much better than 'normal' businesses, at least in terms of how long they survive.

70% of businesses go belly up within three to ten years, depending on how you calculate it. Probably 90% of football clubs have been going for a hundred years, even taking Goldberg and Jordan into account.

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  #42  
Old 15-01-2014, 11:44 PM
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What's he's tits like...
Autocorrect rather fekked that joke up.
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  #43  
Old 15-01-2014, 11:53 PM
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On the slippery slope, for sure.
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  #44  
Old 16-01-2014, 12:03 AM
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Given what has happened at Cardiff and what is currently happening at Southampton and Hull I find myself increasingly thankful we're owned by, relatively less well off, fans than multi-millionaire foreign investors.

Never would have thought that a few years back.
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  #45  
Old 16-01-2014, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LDNEAGLE View Post
Given what has happened at Cardiff and what is currently happening at Southampton and Hull I find myself increasingly thankful we're owned by, relatively less well off, fans than multi-millionaire foreign investors.

Never would have thought that a few years back.
I agree although I wouldn't write any of these clubs off.
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  #46  
Old 16-01-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Didn't want the owners to sell and wanted them to invest more instead.
Or does this mean that Cortese wants a (bigger) profitable return from the investment?

The Guardian article is not explicit but some comments seems to lean that way: "The relationship between the executive chairman and owner at Southampton had fractured beyond repair over Katharina's [Liebherr] apparent desire to sell the asset left to her when Markus died in 2010"; and "It is understood there were also differences of opinion over how much Cortese would be due should the Liebherr Group push through a sale".

I am not clear at all about what is going on here but regardless of whether we would benefit or not, which sems unlikely given how far ahead of the pack Southampton are, it would be a shame if a good model for club development was adversely affected by arguments over financial structuring.
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  #47  
Old 16-01-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
Or does this mean that Cortese wants a (bigger) profitable return from the investment?

The Guardian article is not explicit but some comments seems to lean that way: "The relationship between the executive chairman and owner at Southampton had fractured beyond repair over Katharina's [Liebherr] apparent desire to sell the asset left to her when Markus died in 2010"; and "It is understood there were also differences of opinion over how much Cortese would be due should the Liebherr Group push through a sale".

I am not clear at all about what is going on here but regardless of whether we would benefit or not, which sems unlikely given how far ahead of the pack Southampton are, it would be a shame if a good model for club development was adversely affected by arguments over financial structuring.
Not quite sure why you think it is a good model for club development? Have I missed something but it seems to be the same as Chelsea with one rich person/his beneficiaries who pumped vast sums of money in.

I do not think it is insignificant that this has happened during the transfer window either - it is quite possible that when NC went back and asked for more cash for "investment" the family finally said no. I have been expecting it to happen at some point since the owner died - I'm only surprised it has taken so long.

I have noticed people talking about investment - a football club is not an investment in any traditional sense only in footballing terms- you put money in and you get football glamour publicity and fame out. Very very rarely someone may make some money out of it as well but there really doesn't happen very often at all.
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  #48  
Old 16-01-2014, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
Not quite sure why you think it is a good model for club development? Have I missed something but it seems to be the same as Chelsea with one rich person/his beneficiaries who pumped vast sums of money in.

I do not think it is insignificant that this has happened during the transfer window either - it is quite possible that when NC went back and asked for more cash for "investment" the family finally said no. I have been expecting it to happen at some point since the owner died - I'm only surprised it has taken so long.

I have noticed people talking about investment - a football club is not an investment in any traditional sense only in footballing terms- you put money in and you get football glamour publicity and fame out. Very very rarely someone may make some money out of it as well but there really doesn't happen very often at all.
Worth repeating. Particularly when people talk about taking a 'short term gamble' on fees and wages to stay up like the hike in expenses is just a short term one. It sets the precedent of what you are willing to spend chasing it. Why did Stoke's wage bill and spends continue to rise after their first and second seasons having avoided the drop? Because they have to spend ever greater sums to just maintain the status quo.

It is a concern for me just how much it costs to be competitive in this league and whether we can, therefore, ever truly rebuild the infrastructure. If trying to do that means we have quite a prudent January (relatively speaking) then so be it.
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  #49  
Old 16-01-2014, 09:33 AM
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Not quite sure why you think it is a good model for club development? Have I missed something but it seems to be the same as Chelsea with one rich person/his beneficiaries who pumped vast sums of money in.
Not seen recent figures but i think they wrote off 33m of debt after they came up into the Championship. I doubt they have been running at a profit since.
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  #50  
Old 16-01-2014, 09:36 AM
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Not seen recent figures but i think they wrote off 33m of debt after they came up into the Championship. I doubt they have been running at a profit since.
Closet Saints fan... Not seen the figures my arse!
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  #51  
Old 16-01-2014, 09:43 AM
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Not quite sure why you think it is a good model for club development? Have I missed something but it seems to be the same as Chelsea with one rich person/his beneficiaries who pumped vast sums of money in.
Well, not in all respects perhaps and I agree with what you go on to say about investment which is where I am concerned more widely about one possible implication of this story.

However, to deal with this point. I understand that Liebherr wants to restructure the board so that decisions are not [edit] in the hands of a single owner e.g. she aims to appoint a Chief Exec. Perhaps this is a factor in Cortese's departure who perhaps sees the Saints as more of an investment stream than the main owner does.

On wider features of the club, and whether they are a model or not, I thought I was following a line that had been taken by others on the BBS and indeed from within the club if I am remembering correctly. This view would centre particularly on Southampton's development of young players and their gamble on players bought relatively cheaply. Then there's their training facilities which I understand have been looked at by other clubs, and the way they established a strategy when they were turned around and have followed that through, not unlike Swansea.
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  #52  
Old 16-01-2014, 09:44 AM
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I agree with SW16, and not for the first time I might add, meaning that generally she must make a lot of sense.

No doubt Southampton have been run well by Cortese, who has put the obscene amounts of money thrown at the club to good use. But in many senses, like our esteemed chums on the Sussex coast, Southampton benefitted from somewhat of a perfect storm. Large injections of cash, time to build a squad and infrastructure in a lower league, and so on. However, unlike Brighton, theirs was not an empire built on sand that we were able to ruin by shitting all over their team on the pitch.

But it's somewhat hard for me to understand why a man with seemingly little emotional attachment to the club would continue to pour cash into it even after his death, and not the slightest bit surprising that his surviving relatives, who have waited patiently for him to pop his clogs so they can snort, imbibe and debauch away his inheritance, are mightily pissed off. It'd be like one of us likecking our lips in anticipation of finally being able to finance week long mud wrestling bikini competitions between Katy Perry and Scarlett Johansson in our living rooms, only to discover that instead, the money will need to go towards the youth academy at Grasshoppers Zurich for the next twenty years. That sucks, man.
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  #53  
Old 16-01-2014, 10:21 AM
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Not seen recent figures but i think they wrote off 33m of debt after they came up into the Championship. I doubt they have been running at a profit since.
Read the article! The 33m owed to the Liebherr's was converted into equity, so they will get it back if the club is sold. Given Premiership income, new stadium and a youth production line that make's ours look average, they would be a very attractive proposition. Ask yourself why so many of our teams are foreign owned. If you are in the Premiership or have hopes of getting there, there is big money to be earned.
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  #54  
Old 16-01-2014, 10:27 AM
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Well you read that one
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Old 16-01-2014, 10:45 AM
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Ask yourself why so many of our teams are foreign owned. If you are in the Premiership or have hopes of getting there, there is big money to be earned, then subsequently spent on players and agents. The real 'income' from owning a PL club is the glamour and the stroking of the ego.
EFA.
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  #56  
Old 16-01-2014, 11:15 AM
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I am ashamed to admit that until quite recently I was under the impression that Nicola Cortese was one of that rare breed of tough and successful women in football (like an Italian Karen Brady)
I've got bad news for you about Kerry Dixon and Jody Morris.
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Old 16-01-2014, 11:29 AM
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I've got bad news for you about Kerry Dixon and Jody Morris.
Kerry Dixon was on the bench for one of my Saturday League opponents just before Christmas. Didn't get to come on.
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  #58  
Old 16-01-2014, 12:07 PM
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EFA.
You forgot to add "and in some cases keeps you in the public eye so bad "accidents" can't happen to you".
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  #59  
Old 16-01-2014, 12:31 PM
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Not quite sure why you think it is a good model for club development? Have I missed something but it seems to be the same as Chelsea with one rich person/his beneficiaries who pumped vast sums of money in.
Agreed, also is Chelsea such a bad investment for Roman, he has seen his team win pretty much every trophy and owns a club whose ground and training ground sits on some of the most expensive land in the world.
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Old 16-01-2014, 12:35 PM
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Agreed, also is Chelsea such a bad investment for Roman, he has seen his team win pretty much every trophy and owns a club whose ground and training ground sits on some of the most expensive land in the world.
And he's not dead.

In any case it depends on what he wanted out of it. If you want a sensible return on investment based on the capital employed (and the risk the capital is exposed to) then you don't invest in football.

Plenty of people end up with a small fortune after investing in a football club, most of them started with a larger one though.
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