Brexit

[mik59]

Originally Posted by eagle-leg

I'm a leaver mate... we all are.

So on the Referendum thread were your fellow Leavers lying then when they claimed the EU had changed & was changing because you claim that a vote for Remain was in favour of everything staying the same.

Still confused.

[eagle-leg]

Originally Posted by mik59

So on the Referendum thread were your fellow Leavers lying then when they claimed the EU had changed & was changing because you claim that a vote for Remain was in favour of everything staying the same.

Still confused.

I think you are confusing yourself.

Try not to dwell on it.

[mik59]

Originally Posted by eagle-leg

I think you are confusing yourself.

Try not to dwell on it.

So your post was bullshit then?

Originally Posted by eagle-leg

Lets have everything stay the same forever because of the fear of the unknown.

Yay. Genius.

Or were the Leavers' claims bullshit when they claimed the EU had changed & was changing?

[L'head Eagle]

Originally Posted by El Aguila

It was a case made well to win a vote, but offered nothing for the day after. No one knows what the Leavers have voted for.

Change, something different, even if it does work out bad, many who voted leave did not have much to lose anyway. The remainers will lose far more if it does go bad, and the way they are talking down this country it will.

[mik59]

Originally Posted by L'head Eagle

Change, something different, even if it does work out bad, many who voted leave did not have much to lose anyway.

I think El Ag was referring to what Leave should involve, both what should be in the withdrawal agreement (should we keep anything?) and what the shape of our future relationship should be. Given all we know for sure is that the vote was for Leave then neither the Government nor Parliament have any idea if what they decide from now is within any mandate or not. That's the problem with direct democracy. It's shit.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by El Aguila

It was a case made well to win a vote, but offered nothing for the day after. No one knows what the Leavers have voted for.

It sounds awful doesn't it, people voting for a UK future that they know nothing about, but on the other hand, the fact that so many did, in fact a majority, suggests that the existing state of affairs was making people very uncomfortable

[Shamone]

Originally Posted by anti-addick

Here's a thought. Why not ignore the politicians on both sides and look up the facts yourself? Then maybe you won't be so baffled, frightened or confused, and you could be certain that your choice was more than a leap in the dark.

I mean, if not that would be pretty thick don't you think?

I did do that thanks.

You've made it clear you voted remain as you're worried about your job. Clearly no confidence in your abilitiy to get another one ay thicko?

[Heb 7:4]

Originally Posted by Shamone

I did do that thanks.

You've made it clear you voted remain as you're worried about your job. Clearly no confidence in your abilitiy to get another one ay thicko?

I voted Remain because I wanted the UK to be more prosperous and more influencal in the world, and I had every confidence in the UK continuing to get a great deal with more opt outs and special privileges than any country in the UK.

Instead we've voted to be poorer and less influencal because Leavers are scared of immigrants and have no faith in our country being able to lead the EU.

It's disappointing I have to say. You Leavers are absolute pussies.

[Shamone]

I accept that Heb (bar the pussies bit as I think that's more the remainers). My comment was directly at the fighter pilot wannabe

[Shamone]

By accept, I mean your opinion, but don't agree

[El Aguila]

Originally Posted by Timbo

It sounds awful doesn't it, people voting for a UK future that they know nothing about, but on the other hand, the fact that so many did, in fact a majority, suggests that the existing state of affairs was making people very uncomfortable

It does.
Angst about modern life is palpable.

[mik59]

Which all presents a problem. If people in more depressed communities voted Leave to get more out of work, as they need to, then how to deliver that? One way is to maintain our EU trading conditions, but that was voted against? Possibly?

[Heb 7:4]

Originally Posted by Shamone

I accept that Heb (bar the pussies bit as I think that's more the remainers). My comment was directly at the fighter pilot wannabe

Pfft. It wasn't Remainers crying that the UK would never be able to stand up to nasty old Germany, or that they didn't think we were capable of convincing those big meanies France.

Remainers weren't scared of immigrants, or pretending the UK was no longer a soverign country.

Remainers just said we'll be more prosperous and more influencal in the EU. We can lead the EU, we've done well out of it, we'll continue to do well out of it.

And Leavers wanted to pull the covers over their heads and ask mummy to make all this nasty globalisation go away.

Pussies. No balls at all.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Heb 7:4

And Leavers wanted to pull the covers over their heads

Burkha Boris.

[Heb 7:4]

"How can we harness globalisation to best maximise the UK's economy and project our influence?"

Leavers: "Run away!"

Absolute mice

[Percy Dalton]

Originally Posted by anti-addick

Tbh I thought I'd get a decent researched explanation but it's the same "EU corrupt must leave" bollocks, and the story on you aunt is repeatable, the young really feel betrayed on this, many many fallouts over it in families.

Not sure I suggested the EU was corrupt, in fact that would be a poor argument bearing in mind some of our MP's conduct in our own back yard.

If I would use one phrase to describe one of my biggest objections about the EU it would be undemocratic.

I could, but it would take to long talk about the sheer pointless burocracy of the EU and how many of the Eurocrates are impossible to deal with due to their blikered attitudes. I have sadly experienced this time and again over the years.

Don't get me wrong I love Europe, its variety and culture, it is sad that the EU could or is not willing to change. Its not just the UK who have called for change and been frustrated by a lack or perhaps deliberate determination not to listen to the people of Europe.

You may dismiss the situation my aunts friend is in, but to her its a terrible situation to be in. She has become very depressed and my aunt is concerned about her long term health, but then of course some remainder can't wait for us oldies to pop our clogs! This in itself is rather funny when you look at how many over 60's voted to remain, more than the youngest group (of those who bothered to vote)

It will be interesting to see where we are 12 months from now and of course when the next General Election comes up.

[mik59]

Originally Posted by Percy Dalton

I could, but it would take to long talk about the sheer pointless burocracy of the EU and how many of the Eurocrates are impossible to deal with due to their blikered attitudes. I have sadly experienced this time and again over the years.

After 13 years working for the Government on EU policy I would agree.... partially. But countering that I worked for the Government for 23 years, and... oh boy! I've also worked in the private sector with entrepreneurs.... Jeesh!! And then there was the voluntary sector... moving swiftly on: that is organised and rule based organisations for you. Actually, I think I achieved more inside the EU than I did in over 30 years of working in different environments.

But none of that is the point of this thread. This is about the impact of leaving the EU. That is what we have to manage now. There will be economic consequences and they will be harsh. How long they last and how deep they impact will be down to the decisions of Government and of Parliament. That is the problem: we have delivered to them a decision to implement without telling them how to do so. It is a huge task in itself without considering the political minefield they have to tiptoe through.

No one, whichever side they are, should shy away from the realities of all this. Just to pass the necessary domestic legislation alone will take 10 years on past performance (given number of bills that need changing and the normal number dealt with in any parliament), and that is not taking into account the shrinking of Parliament from implementing the Boundary Commission. This is a huge exercise. At one level it is fascinating: many books will be written about it. On another level, it is scary.

[racehorse-80s]

.

[fang]

Originally Posted by anti-addick

Tbh I thought I'd get a decent researched explanation but it's the same "EU corrupt must leave" bollocks, and the story on you aunt is repeatable, the young really feel betrayed on this, many many fallouts over it in families.

All true and quite understandable.

Our generation will be responsible for having handed our children a legacy much worse than the one we inherited. No free higher education. Insecure employment with few of the associated benefits we enjoyed. Crummy pension provision. Unaffordable housing , rented or purchased. Social and health provison rapidly becoming a folk memory and lets not start on global warming and the reckless depletion of global resources. And now we can add to that a further reduction in their prospects and security, thanks to Brexit.

I can't think of other historical examples where such a privileged bunch have so selfishly disregarded the needs of future generations.

[Biggineagle]

Originally Posted by mik59

So on the Referendum thread were your fellow Leavers lying then when they claimed the EU had changed & was changing because you claim that a vote for Remain was in favour of everything staying the same.

Still confused.

Its the wine mik I hope