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  #721  
Old 14-11-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by stamford triumph View Post
Its all a bit bizarre when many traditional Labour voters are told to f*** off because we are not true Corbynistas. Its like they would rather lose honourably than lower themselves to count on our support.
It is slightly odd, and one of the reasons I , and quite a few of my friends won't vote labour at the moment . . The peak in his support wont last , and im sure this with us , or out modus operandi will be binned when the idiots realise it would be a walk over with a little forethought and acceptance of a more broader thought process.in policy making..
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  #722  
Old 14-11-2017, 11:14 PM
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  #723  
Old 14-11-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You can use myopic anyway way you please but that does not take away, unfortunately, the fact that Labour is split and fecked up at the worst possible time.

As others have said when May or Boris can still win an election (which they did) against Corbyn it looks like voters are voting for the best of the bottom of the barrel.
You can barely contain your glee can you Les. Most disappointing that you seem to have such an unenviable trait.

However let's try and put some meat on your rather mixed up bones. Perhaps a start at the 2015 might help. The Tories under Cameron win a very pedestrian election against the hapless Miliband having been able, as was always going to be the case, of saddling their coalition chums (Lib Dems) with all the problems of the previous government. They garner 330 seats to Labour's 232 with a net gain of 50 seats.

I think your view of Labour being 'fecked up' was probably appropriate at this time. Miliband having led an awful campaign duly resigned having set in stone an electoral process that allowed Corbyn to not only get nominated but to win the leadership. There followed a period of well documented turmoil in the Party, which I have to admit I for one, was worried would destroy it as a political force. Again your 'split' point was pertinent at this time.

Then came Cameron's bane, the 2016 EU referendum won as we all know by 52% to 48% and itself the result of machinations within the Tory party that probably predate Heath's 1975 referendum which carried us into the Union by 68% to 32%. Cameron falls on his sword and a short and rather bizarre Tory leadership process gets underway with every candidate shooting themselves in the foot until May is the only one left standing.

So we move to 2017 and the Maybot having taken over the Tory reigns and for good measure triggered article 50 committed us to 'Brexit means Brexit'. However apparently thinking along the lines of your good self i.e. that the Labour Party now represents nothing more than an irritating fly to be swotted away forever she calls a snap election. The result as we all know didn't turn out that way. Under Corbyn 'the bogeyman' the apparently 'split and fecked up' Labour Party won back 43 of those seats and we now are back with a coalition government and coupled withg Brexit this is the reason that the Tories are in such a mess. The Maybot is weak and the party swings from one crisis to another and at the moment is stumbling around trying to get legislation through parliament based on a mixture of appeasement and bribery, the latter being that if the MPs don't vote for it Corbyn will be the next PM implying that Labour might well win the next election.

And that's the point isn't it. Labour can't really do or indeed want to do anything at the moment. Brexit is a minefield that they don't want to touch given that the Tories are tearing themselves up over it. But they are far from being 'split and fecked up'. They might have been but a year or two ago but not at the moment.
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  #724  
Old 15-11-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
Interesting that Les's post is basically, even when the Tories **** up, it's still Labour's fault. Which pretty much sums up why Labour didnt get the outright win at the election

They didnít get any win never mind an outright win.

Of course the electoral maths (more so post boundary changes) make it very difficult for Labour ever to achieve an overall majority.
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  #725  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You would think at a time when the Tories come across as a bunch of imbeciles who have not a clue who seem to feck up on a daily basis Labour would take full advantage?...Nope like on here they bicker amongst themselves

What unbelievable luck for the conservatives.
Well getting 46% in the polls isn't too bad at all. Corbyn is also far ahead in the most favoured leader in the latest poll.

Your memory is also slightly selective. The Labour right spent two years trying to undermine the Labour Party with constant in-fighting. Corbyn is now so popular that they have had to reign that in a lot. That was combined with the state that Blair, Brown and Miliband had left the Labour Party in, with hugely shrunk membership. That membership has now gone from less than 200,000 to around 600,000, and the Labour Party is now the biggest political party in Europe.

Again not too shabby.
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  #726  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You can use myopic anyway way you please but that does not take away, unfortunately, the fact that Labour is split and fecked up at the worst possible time.

As others have said when May or Boris can still win an election (which they did) against Corbyn it looks like voters are voting for the best of the bottom of the barrel.
No one won the election. It was a hung parliament. Does news take that long to get to Canada?
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  #727  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
It is slightly odd, and one of the reasons I , and quite a few of my friends won't vote labour at the moment . . The peak in his support wont last , and im sure this with us , or out modus operandi will be binned when the idiots realise it would be a walk over with a little forethought and acceptance of a more broader thought process.in policy making..
Again this just isn't true. The manifesto, which was clearly to the left, was what galvanised the Labour vote and turned a 20% deficit (caused by the right undermining Labour for two years), to the greatest vote gain since 1945 and a hung parliament.

All the polls have showed that a right wing or centrist leader would perform far worse.
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  #728  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
They didn’t get any win never mind an outright win.

Of course the electoral maths (more so post boundary changes) make it very difficult for Labour ever to achieve an overall majority.
The hung parliament and Brexit mess means these changes might well not happen. Also:

Quote:
On Tuesday, the boundary commissions for England, Scotland and Wales published revised plans for the changes, following months of public consultation. Initial analysis of the plans indicate a marginally worse electoral map for Labour if they are implemented.
Quote:
However, it is by no means certain the changes, due to come into force before the 2022 election, will even be passed following the loss of the Conservative majority in June’s snap election.

The DUP, on whose support Theresa May’s government relies, is vehemently opposed to the initial boundary change proposals for Northern Ireland, which were seen as adversely affecting unionist parties.

Last edited by cockneyrebel; 15-11-2017 at 09:39 AM.
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  #729  
Old 16-11-2017, 02:04 PM
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Very good of him to personally fund this one!:
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  #730  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:14 PM
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Very good of him to personally fund this one!:
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Can't think of a more deserving nation to receive funds from austerity Britain
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  #731  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:18 PM
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Can't think of a more deserving nation to receive funds from austerity Britain
FFS. He gets in trouble for saying she was "training journalists", so they say this makes her a threat to the regime.

Does he think offering them £400k for her return is going to make her look less of a threat?
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  #732  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:22 PM
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  #733  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
FFS. He gets in trouble for saying she was "training journalists", so they say this makes her a threat to the regime.

Does he think offering them £400k for her return is going to make her look less of a threat?
£400m
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  #734  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:24 PM
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  #735  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:32 PM
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Again this just isn't true. The manifesto, which was clearly to the left, was what galvanised the Labour vote and turned a 20% deficit (caused by the right undermining Labour for two years), to the greatest vote gain since 1945 and a hung parliament.
It was a bigger jump even than in 1945 and the biggest in Labour's full franchise history.

(Can't remember the exact figures, but though the percentage points rise was lower, the percentage increase was bigger as it started from a lower base.)
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  #736  
Old 16-11-2017, 03:38 PM
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Old 16-11-2017, 04:03 PM
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FFS. He gets in trouble for saying she was "training journalists", so they say this makes her a threat to the regime.

Does he think offering them £400k for her return is going to make her look less of a threat?
The £400m is not largesse. It was a payment made by Iran in the Shah's time for arms which Britain, understandably perhaps, decided not to deliver after the islamic revolution. The Iranians have been trying to recover it ever since and got an international ruling (can't remember from which multilateral body)some time ago in their favour. Since then the UK had been "intending" to comply with the ruling but felt constrained by US Treasury sanctions in particular. There is a school of thought that the arrest of Nazanin was to provide some leverage in this regard although personally I think that while it has been useful, there are other factors in play.
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Old 16-11-2017, 04:08 PM
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The £400m is not largesse. It was a payment made by Iran in the Shah's time for arms which Britain, understandably perhaps, decided not to deliver after the islamic revolution. The Iranians have been trying to recover it ever since and got an international ruling (can't remember from which multilateral body)some time ago in their favour. Since then the UK had been "intending" to comply with the ruling but felt constrained by US Treasury sanctions in particular. There is a school of thought that the arrest of Nazanin was to provide some leverage in this regard although personally I think that while it has been useful, there are other factors in play.
All well and good, but not sure Iran has ever complied with any international conventions and rulings
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Old 16-11-2017, 04:17 PM
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All well and good, but not sure Iran has ever complied with any international conventions and rulings
I take it you're using "not sure" in the general social media meaning of "I have absolutely no idea but it suits my prejudices to suggest this".
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Old 16-11-2017, 04:34 PM
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My son is a buffoon, get me out of here?
Probably going in there to avoid his son, at least for a couple of weeks. Probably getting tired of facepalming himself.
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