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  #201  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golf Boy
I hope you're right.

What happens when they get their hands on a nuclear device?
Is there any evidence that they might?

Isn't this the same sort of alarmist approach that had some convinced that Saddam was going to nuke us all within 45 minutes?

I can only repeat - terrorists seek to create terror. And talk of a nuclear device is exactly the reault they wish.
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  #202  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
Is there any evidence that they might?

Isn't this the same sort of alarmist approach that had some convinced that Saddam was going to nuke us all within 45 minutes?

I can only repeat - terrorists seek to create terror. And talk of a nuclear device is exactly the reault they wish.
Seeing as there are plenty of unscrupulous arms dealers with available uranium, and that Al Quaeda has the finances and contacts to build small nuclear devices I rather think its a bit more than that Maz.
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  #203  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:26 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maz
Is there any evidence that they might?

Isn't this the same sort of alarmist approach that had some convinced that Saddam was going to nuke us all within 45 minutes?

I can only repeat - terrorists seek to create terror. And talk of a nuclear device is exactly the reault they wish.
[/QUOT

But if they get it they WILL use it. It's not the cold war anyomre where it was in no ones interest to use the things.

Pakistan and Iran have capacity and it only takes rogue elements within.
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  #204  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:29 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golf Boy
Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
Is there any evidence that they might?

Isn't this the same sort of alarmist approach that had some convinced that Saddam was going to nuke us all within 45 minutes?

I can only repeat - terrorists seek to create terror. And talk of a nuclear device is exactly the reault they wish.
[/QUOT

But if they get it they WILL use it. It's not the cold war anyomre where it was in no ones interest to use the things.

Pakistan and Iran have capacity and it only takes rogue elements within.
Plenty of rogue elements in the USA and Israel too ...
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  #205  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:30 AM
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And al-Qaeda have no interest in preserving the status quo as states do. They will use a nuclear device if they ever get their hands on one. Access to such materials is a great worry for governments and security analysts at this time.
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  #206  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
You are in more danger of being run over by a Ford.

No, you are in more danger of being run over by a Fnord
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  #207  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:31 AM
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Well then if we are so much in danger of being nuked from all sides what's the point in worrying? What will it achieve?

Personally, as noted, I think more about the dangers of crossing the road. Nearly 4,000 people dying every year in road accidents in the UK, but bet your life it doesn't obsess in the same way.
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  #208  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Plenty of rogue elements in the USA and Israel too ...
Yes....but exactly how do these elements pose any threat to us?

They don't.

al-Qaeda and Iran do.
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  #209  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
Well then if we are so much in danger of being nuked from all sides what's the point in worrying? What will it achieve?

Personally, as noted, I think more about the dangers of crossing the road. Nearly 4,000 people dying every year in road accidents in the UK, but bet your life it doesn't obsess in the same way.
Who's obsessed. But i think the enemy is completely different to anything seen before. There is no dialogue or objective. ( other than the death of every Westerner ). I don't think the Ostrich approach is the right one on this occasion.

As for crossing the road. I agree and something ought to be done about those ••••••• SUV's.....it's just jealousy you know.
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  #210  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golf Boy
Who's obsessed. But i think the enemy is completely different to anything seen before. There is no dialogue or objective.
How sure are you about that? I'm not sure you are at all right.

Whilst it may be true of an ultra-radical minority, I remain fairly certain that solving the Middle East problems would be key to calming down much militant Islamism.
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  #211  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Plenty of rogue elements in the USA and Israel too ...
always has been. Your point i presume is that they are as a big a threat to the world as Al Quada and their ilk.
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  #212  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
How sure are you about that? I'm not sure you are at all right.

Whilst it may be true of an ultra-radical minority, I remain fairly certain that solving the Middle East problems would be key to calming down much militant Islamism.
That's a different argument. Anyway i think Palestine is used as an excuse by people whose only real objective is to kill as many westerners as possible.
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  #213  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OscillateWildly
Yes....but exactly how do these elements pose any threat to us?

They don't.

al-Qaeda and Iran do.
Does that really need to be spelt out ... we're inextricably linked to those countries, one of Israel's biggest supporters and the US's biggest ally. Dick Cheney still believes that Saddam supported Al Q (see today's FT) - with loonies like him as US Vice president you can be sure that his supporters, and there are many, would love nothing more than to nuke somewhere or someone.
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  #214  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:46 AM
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What's the obsession with 9/11 all of a sudden? BBC5Live is going into overdrive, all the coverage in the news, documentries, etc. Over 3,000 people died which is tragic but tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed in the 'war on turr' in Iraq and Afghanistan since then..."50 killed in Baghdad suicide bombing - now sport". No one seems to give a damn about them yet America got hit 5 years ago and the media's in mourning. Are we going to have the same discussion about the Madrid bombings on the 5th anniversary? Does anyone actually know off the top of their heads when it was?
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  #215  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golf Boy
That's a different argument. Anyway i think Palestine is used as an excuse by people whose only real objective is to kill as many westerners as possible.
I very strongly disagree : not least becasue implicit in your statement is the notion that terrorists just like to kill people for no reason. And we have very little historical precedent or human one to believe that this is true of anyone except psychopaths.

If you think they just like to kill, then you are right there is nothing we can do except wage a War on Terror. So you agree with Dubya.

But if you think there is an underlying reason for it all, then that gives far more hope. And I live in hope, rather than like Dubya.
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  #216  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maz
I very strongly disagree : not least becasue implicit in your statement is the notion that terrorists just like to kill people for no reason. And we have very little historical precedent or human one to believe that this is true of anyone except psychopaths.

If you think they just like to kill, then you are right there is nothing we can do except wage a War on Terror. So you agree with Dubya.

But if you think there is an underlying reason for it all, then that gives far more hope. And I live in hope, rather than like Dubya.
The Palestinian problem has been around for 50 years. The world has only been under attack from radical Islaam relatively recently. That is what i meant when i said it is used as an excuse.

The only real way out is to withdraw form the area completely, send a valedictory message to Israel and start using alternative fuels. But that's not going to happen for a hundred years, by which time the even more serious threat of Global Warming, deforestation etc...etc...might be on the agenda.
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  #217  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:06 AM
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Is there a minute silence or something today? Haven't heard anything about one.
There is going to be a memorial service and minutes silence at the US Embassy memorial in Grovenor Square today but I think that is the only one happening in the UK.

Families of British victims will be in attendence as well as some families of victims from the London bombings.

Unfortunately the anti-capitialists and the 9/11 conspiracy society have scheduled a protest outside the Embassy today as well.
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  #218  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:10 AM
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Does anyone know if there is a "watch again" option on the BBC site for the 9/11 Twin Towers programme? I missed it but would like to see it.
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  #219  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:12 AM
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Unfortunately the anti-capitialists and the 9/11 conspiracy society have scheduled a protest outside the Embassy today as well.
What you mena those who maybe think that bombing the shit out of Iraq might not have been the answer.
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  #220  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Does that really need to be spelt out ... we're inextricably linked to those countries, one of Israel's biggest supporters and the US's biggest ally. Dick Cheney still believes that Saddam supported Al Q (see today's FT) - with loonies like him as US Vice president you can be sure that his supporters, and there are many, would love nothing more than to nuke somewhere or someone.
Right you may be about the neo-cons but that still doesn't mean that the US or Israel are any threat to us.

They are not. The threat to us lies elsewhere and it is Islamic fundamentalism.
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