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  #121  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pistike
All sounds very convincing but you'd have thought that there would have been some kind of public enquiry that would substantiate all this.

I'm not aware of any, hence the credence that some of these other theories take on even the far fetched variety that Mal quoted.
Of course there was a public enquiry. Just Google for 'Twin Towers construction' or similar and you will find several references to an enquiry in which they gave an explanation why the WTC collapsed and largely exonerated the architects. There are some dissenting voices who say the fire retardent should have been better, which is the theory i prefer.

The enquiry team of course believed that aircraft hit the towers which I believe you dispute
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  #122  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timbo
The enquiry team of course believed that aircraft hit the towers which I believe you dispute
Actually the pictures of aircraft hitting the building led me to believe that maybe the building had been hit by aircraft.
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  #123  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:15 PM
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Why do people find it necessary to create conspiracy theories about significant world events rather than accept the truth?

Maybe Henry Paul just crashed the car.
Maybe Neil Armstrong did land on the moon.
Maybe Kennedy was killed by a lone assasin.
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  #124  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mal Adjusted
You say that you don't have a theory. But ysterday you did have a theory. Remember?

Could have sworn that heat travels up.

And you used that theory to suggest that the flames could nbot have destroyed the lower parts of the WTC, thereby implying that there must have been another cause i.e controlled explosions. And if you believe the theory that heat cannot travel down a metal column, and that there therefore must have been controlled explosions then it's very easy to jump to the next chapter in the conspiracy theory which is the US Neocon Extremist Israel-loving Warmaking Bastards fired their own missile at the Pentagon. Of course, that also means that they spirited away the plane that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon and murdered all on board, and spirited away and murdered any air traffic controllers who spotted the plane, and spirited away and murdered the chief exec of the airline who must have known about it, and his secreatry, mum, granny and whoever else he chats to on a baseball internet site in saarf Washington.




You're bonkers
Bonkers? Possibly but not sufficiently bonkers to attribute a lengthy quote to someone from material that I've penned myself.

Next time try doing it this way...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pistike
Because heat travels up, flames couldn't have destroyed the lower parts of the WTC, so there must have been another cause i.e controlled explosions. Furthermore as heat cannot travel down a metal column, therefore there must have been controlled explosions. So basically US Neocon Extremist Israel-loving Warmaking Bastards fired their own missile at the Pentagon. Of course, that also means that they spirited away the plane that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon and murdered all on board, and spirited away and murdered any air traffic controllers who spotted the plane, and spirited away and murdered the chief exec of the airline who must have known about it, and his secretary, mum, granny and whoever else he chats to on a baseball internet site in saarf Washington.
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  #125  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:32 PM
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A friend of mine did jury service recently.

He said people on the jury automatically assumed they were in a TV show and the police had fitted the defendants up as a default position. They also speculated that the defendant might have been having an affair with a police officer as a consequence of their first 'theory'. There was no basis for either supposition, but the jury took them as fact.

People want conspiracies. They want things to be more interesting than they appear at first light.

Sometimes, (and this is something you don't hear often) something as mundane as a group of terrorists hijacking aircraft and crashing them into buildings is as interesting as you get. People do land on the moon. Sometimes, a trained soldier with a rifle shooting from a book depository is capable of killing someone.
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  #126  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:06 PM
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And sometimes when you drink a lot, take powerful medication, and then drive yourself and three other people in a powerful car that you have never driven before, at colossal speeds through a road tunnel, whilst being pursued by a gang of paparazzis on motorcycles, late on a Saturday night with other traffic around, with only one passenger wearing a seat belt, and smash into a concrete pillar after losing control, then you end up dead. The seatbelt wearer sometimes survives.
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  #127  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by beestey
And sometimes when you drink a lot, take powerful medication, and then drive yourself and three other people in a powerful car that you have never driven before, at colossal speeds through a road tunnel, whilst being pursued by a gang of paparazzis on motorcycles, late on a Saturday night with other traffic around, with only one passenger wearing a seat belt, and smash into a concrete pillar after losing control, then you end up dead. The seatbelt wearer sometimes survives.
Exactly.

I think they're buying it Agent Beestey - we will silence them eventually
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  #128  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:12 PM
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the 4th plane that crashed in the fields i find disturbing a farmer was adamant it was being followed by two jet fighters ..was it shot down and covered up?
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  #129  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
the 4th plane that crashed in the fields i find disturbing a farmer was adamant it was being followed by two jet fighters ..was it shot down and covered up?
yes i have to agree on this
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  #130  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:25 PM
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And surely the fact that not a sinlge conspiracy theory has been put about to 'explain' or reveal the datsardly truth behind the Madrid and London bombings, is itself a conspiracy.

The conspiracy by western powers to mercilessly slaughter as many commuters as possible on their own public transport systems was so well planned and so successfully executed for them by brain-washed jihadists financed and trained in secret by the CIA and MI6, that not even conspiracy theorists can think of a conspiracy theory for London and Madrid.

Can they...
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  #131  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:28 PM
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Exactly.
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  #132  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:30 PM
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I am also of the opinion that the reason Palace have never won anything is because the FA and the Football League have conspired against us.

I simply refuse to believe that its because we aren't very good.
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  #133  
Old 09-09-2006, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by philsick
I understand what you mean.But someone has to raise the issue that the bush regime
Do you think it would be acceptable for those who think 7/7 was put together by MI5 to stage a protest during a memorial service for those lost on July 7th? Or perhaps on Remembrance Sunday anti-capitalist protesters could vent their anger at the west whilst war veterans walk past the cenotaph.

Regardless of what you think of America and its government, there is a time and place for such protest and this is not the time or the place. It is going to be the only place in Britain holding an official service & minutes silence for the families. The day and event have nothing to do with Bush or the American government - It is to remember those lost on 9/11 and in particular the British victims. If you want to raise your issue with the Bush regime there are 364 other days in the year, why not protest on one of them?

How would you feel if you had come to remember and grieve a relative lost in the twin towers or on one of those planes and then have 200 members of the "9/11 Conspiracy Society" stage a protest right next to where you were the memorial service was taking place.
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  #134  
Old 10-09-2006, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
the 4th plane that crashed in the fields i find disturbing a farmer was adamant it was being followed by two jet fighters ..was it shot down and covered up?
I put this earlier in the thread:

I had the radio and the guy kept updating us on what other airliners hadn't been accounted for yet (ie the ones that crashed obvously went radio silent etc). Over the next few minutes he said (paraphrased after 5 years of course) flight so and so (which I had remembered the number) isn't responding, still not responding, they have launched fighters, fighters approaching plane to signal but will take it down if necessary, longer pause between updates. It's down, its down.

Now I dont blame anyone for shooting it down. But shooting it down somewhere and pretending

i.e. first hand data - not proof
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  #135  
Old 10-09-2006, 10:59 AM
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Although I don't go along with the more outlandish conspiracy theorists
of 9/11, including those of the deliberate demolition of the second
Twin Tower or the guided missile on the Pentagon, there could be
more than a grain of truth in the suggestion that the Bush Admin-
istration might have wanted to hide the cause of the crash of the
4th aircraft especially if it had been deliberately shot down by
fighters to prevent it flying on to Washington DC. Even the
catastrophic events in New York are unlikely to have prepared
the majority of Americans at that time for an airliner full of inn-
ocent civilians to have been deliberately shot down in order
to stop it going on to the Federal capital.....

There have been a number of attempts by the US and British govern-
ments to try to cover up embarrassing news for political purposes,
especially in times of war:

One such example was how they handled the disappearance on a
flight from England to Paris in fog of world-famous orchestra lea-
der Glen Miller on a flight from England to Paris in 1944. The
truth of Miller's untimely end was kept from the public for several
decades after the war, until an RAF bomber crew member rev-
ealed that he saw Miller's Piper Cub light-aircraft flying under a
squadron of Lancaster's as they were jettisoning their bomb-
loads out to sea off the East Anglian coast after an aborted
mission.

The airman reported the exact time and map-reference of the
incident to his controller on his return, but nothing was ever
mentioned again about the sighting and the likely fate of the
occupants of the doomed plane.

It is now widely believed that the news of Miller's probable
fate as a result of a tragic accident involving aircraft of a
friendly power, was just too embarrassing and painful for
the Allied civilian and military population to hear and that
it was hushed up by the British and possibly the US High
Command.

Another Second World War cover-up happened after a
force of US troops rehearsing for an amphibious landing
off Slapton Sands on the Devon coast was intercepted
and attacked by German E-Boats killing and wounding
hundreds of GI's. This catastrophe was not only
kept top secret, by both the Americans & the British,
but a desperate covert operation had to be carried
out to recover the bodies of several US officers who
were carrying highly sensitive blue-prints of the forth-
coming Normandy Invasion!

Local Devon inhabitants were kept under very close
scrutiny right up to June 6th, 1944, discouraged
from talking about the horrific scenes some had wit-
nessed in the aftermath of the tragedy, and had
their movements restricted and monitored by sec-
urity forces.

One has only to study the history of the gigantic
deception operation to deceive the Nazis over
the time and place of D-Day, Allied Code-break-
ing measures etc, at a time when the technol-
ogy of mass-deception was in it's infancy, to
then make the mental leap forward to GCHQ,
US Spy-satellites and the technology of cyber-
space, virtual-reality etc.& to recognise there
is no foreseeable limit to the degree of capability
of mass-deception by modern governments
whether they claim to be democratic or are
dictatorial.

It is therefore, important for all those conscious
of this new reality to be constantly aware,
sceptical and questioning and take nothing
governments, politicians or the large finan-
cial and business corporations tell us for
granted........

Last edited by Freddy Kurz; 10-09-2006 at 11:16 AM.
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  #136  
Old 10-09-2006, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz

It is therefore, important for all those conscious
of this new reality to be constantly aware,
sceptical and questioning and take nothing
governments, politicians or the large finan-
cial and business corporations tell us for
granted........
Freddy - as usual you're (Edit - of course I meant to type 'your' and not 'you're' because 'you're' is shorthand for 'you are'. And I would never say to Fredy that 'You are an experienced analysis'. I offer my humble apologies to all for the awful mistake) experienced analysis is very persuasive.

However, there are two camps that can often blur into one, ands we must distinguish between them. In the first camp are those who wisely follow the advice you've given here. In the second camp are those who insanely and automatically assume that what they're being told is a lie.

Last edited by Mal Adjusted; 10-09-2006 at 01:44 PM.
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  #137  
Old 10-09-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mal Adjusted
Freddy - as usual you're experienced analysis is very persuasive.

However, there are two camps that can often blur into one, ands we must distinguish between them. In the first camp are those who wisely follow the advice you've given here. In the second camp are those who insanely and automatically assume that what they're being told is a lie.
Rare Mal-Exile agreement.
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  #138  
Old 10-09-2006, 01:32 PM
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The position at this moment in time in this thread's life is that the only conspiracy theory with any legs on it is the No.4 plane being shot down by USAF rather than crash-landing into the field, and exploding on impact.

One utterly compelling non-conspiracy version for No.4 plane, is that once hijacked this plane was targetted on The White House, in the knowledge that the other three mighty targets were taken care of by the hijackers' colleagues on the other three jets.

Given the serious level of planning of these attacks, it is inconceivable that the No.4 plane hijackers did not have an exact target into which they were going to fly this plane. And given the other 3 targets, it was going to be somewhere pretty damn important.

During the hijackers' diversionary flight heading, passengers with communication equipment on board did make calls to relatives and friends. This is undeniable.

The records of these digital calls and radio frequency calls by airline staff on board are indelibly recorded in live time so no one, not even God Himself, could create these, because we also have incontrovertible evidence from many ground sources that no one on the ground knew anything about what was going on with this plane at all, so they could not have started to invent phoney telephone calls, and anyway can you really accept that all those hundreds of wives, sons, daughters, parents, lovers and friends would all, without a single exception, make up fake telephone calls and stick unwaveringly to that 'total fraud' plot for 5 years? If so, you do indeed need immediate and massive medical attention.

So at this point there is no conspiracy theory for No.4 plane.

Entirely due to that communication, the picture of what was going on on board No.4 plane did become clear on the ground, and its flight path could begin to be surmised.

And with news that The Pentagon was a direct hit, and that the hijackers' flight path was going to reach Washington D.C. any, and I mean, any self-respecting country's government would be utterly insane to allow a group of crazed hijackers to fly a plane into the most symbolic seat of governmental power on Earth, and all means would have been justified to stop such an outcome.

However that that is so, never needed to be implemented because once the passengers knew that their fate was to die (because they were told about the WTC attacks), and that the target the hijackers would have chosen would have been one of immense symbolic and/or strategic importance to the USA, like the WTC and The Pentagon, then what little time was blindingly obvious they had left in their lives could be usefully employed to try and sabotage the hijackers' plan, and this they managed to do, hence the plane crash-landed in a field.

All the recorded commnication with the plane to the point of the crash had no mention of any military jet planes visible to these passengers or crew.

One light aircraft pilot saw the No4 plane flying at an absurdly low altitude for such a large craft and at a declining angle and radioed this information to ground which was duly logged and recorded but made absolutely no mention of other aircraft, on what was a morning of incredibly good visibility. Or of any mid-air explosion.

This mention of the farmer seeing other flying planes does not go any way to substantiate a purposeful air-to-air missile attack on the No.4 plane.

And how such a missile attack would not have been immediately obvious by the forensic searches done on the crash site, by all sorts of different agencies, all of whom would have somehow or other - as participants in the conspiracy theory cover-up plot - been both sworn to secrecy and given a baloney version of events that could not be supported by physical evidence, even when the alleged US government cover-up plotters would have been blissfully unaware of the location of the crash site, and therefore could not have known which personel from which agencies would be at the scene, co-ordinating the forensics, and the investigation, the clear-up and so on.

The sheer volume of communication going on after the No.4 crash between all these personanel, would have made it impossible for anyone to manage to cover up an air-to-air missile attack with a total blanket of secrecy.

Apart from the passengers' accounts, the nature of the crash, the absence of any evidence of a missile attack, and the ground agencies' accounts of post-crash operations, over the given period of time, and the transparently clear evidence that most tiers of the US Government were completely paralysed by the sheer scale and rapidity of the 4 attacks, how anyone could mastermind and impose a cover-up plot beggars belief.

And anyone who arges that in spite of this Everest of evidence to refute any conspiracy theory, it still happened and was hushed up to shore up the morale of the US people who would all have otherwise turned on their own government in some sort of revolutionary fever of rage, is total poppycock.

In the face of the endlessly rising death toll of US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq post-9/11, which the US government has made no effort to cover up and the US people have still yet to rise up in rebellion, I don't see why anyone in the US government would even be bothered to cover-up an air-to-air missile strike on No.4 plane.

If it were true, at least it would have shown to a cowed nation, that the US Government had some capacity to protect its people and infrastructure from a gang of crazed murderers.

That it had no such capacity, and instead it was the heroism and selfless bravery of the passengers and crew on board No.4 plane that averted The White House or Congress, from being blown to smithereens, is a glaring statement that the conspiracy theorists are themselves crazed lunatics who would deny anything if they could - even the dawn of a new day as the Earth takes its course around The Sun.

Or does it.........

Last edited by beestey; 10-09-2006 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:02 PM
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That's a formidably good post, beestey.

You haven't lost it, old boy..............
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:03 PM
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The most scientific attempts to uncover the truth seems to come from To view the link you have to Register or Login

9/11 stinks so badly one must have one's eyes glued shut not to see it...
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