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  #121  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Keegan & Brooking would have to be in it

Probably Shilts in goal - have to have Gascoigne and I'd like Steve Coppell although Waddle & Barnes were class. Often wondered how Alan Devonshire would have done in 1982 if Greenwood has taken him instead of the useless Graham Rix - when Brooking got injured that was a big chunk of creativity missing.

I'd quite like Wright & Ferdinand up front but it probably should be Shearer. Des Walker & Kenny Sansom (maybe Phil Neal or Ashley Cole if you shout at me). Rio Ferdinand & Sol Campbell are a great centre back partnership. Room for one of Gerrard, Lampard or Scholes?

How many is that?

No Beckham? And hate to ask it, was Gary Neville the only class right back we had at all?
Lineker surely. 10 goals at World cup finals. Plus golden boot winner in 1986.
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  #122  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:23 PM
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Lineker surely. 10 goals at World cup finals. Plus golden boot winner in 1986.
forgot about him....
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  #123  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Gilbert View Post
I'm not sure 3 consecutive quarter finals IS under achievement as far as England is concerned. We have never been close to doing it before or since!
From 2002 to 2012, in all tournaments I count two quarters, 1 round of 16, 1 round of 32 and one failure to qualify. With a squad containing Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney, all star players in sides regularly competing and on occasion winning champions leagues, as well as Beckham, Campbell, Hargreaves etc for the first half of that period, surely that collection of finishes have to be considered underachievements. A side with that talent should be strong competitors for the semis for me.
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  #124  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
From 2002 to 2012, in all tournaments I count two quarters, 1 round of 16, 1 round of 32 and one failure to qualify. With a squad containing Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney, all star players in sides regularly competing and on occasion winning champions leagues, as well as Beckham, Campbell, Hargreaves etc for the first half of that period, surely that collection of finishes have to be considered underachievement. A side with that talent should be strong competitors for the semis for me.
In 1982, English Clubs were dominating Europe - and they had quite a few British players playing as well.
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  #125  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Gilbert View Post
I'm not sure 3 consecutive quarter finals IS under achievement as far as England is concerned. We have never been close to doing it before or since!
Quite

Take out the two home tournaments in 66 and 06 and what are you left with in International Tournaments?

Two Semi Finals. One of which (in 68) was just a four team tournament which we qualified for just by winning the Home Internationals against Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.

So that's 17 World Cups of which we made the Quarters or more 7 times and 13 European Championships where we did that 4 times. 30 tournaments, Quarter Finalists or more 11 times.

Quarters are an over achievement with our history
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  #126  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
In 1982, English Clubs were dominating Europe - and they had quite a few British players playing as well.
Underachieving in one tournament (if we even did, 82’ was a bit before my time) is one thing. A generation of very talented players only managing those finishes over the course of 10 years and 5 tournaments is another.
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  #127  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Underachieving in one tournament (if we even did, 82 was a bit before my time) is one thing. A generation of very talented players only managing those finishes over the course of 10 years and 5 tournaments is another.
82 they ruined the tournament by have groups of 3 in the 2nd round. Utterly mad idea.

England won all their 1st round games (without Brooking & Keegan) including spanking semi-finalists France 3-1 and in the second round drew 0-0 with Germany and Spain and went home without losing and having only conceded 1 goal.

That was one hell of a team when Brooking & Keegan were fit. And it was solid as rock at the back.
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  #128  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
82 they ruined the tournament by have groups of 3 in the 2nd round. Utterly mad idea.

England won all their 1st round games (without Brooking & Keegan) including spanking semi-finalists France 3-1 and in the second round drew 0-0 with Germany and Spain and went home without losing and having only conceded 1 goal.

That was one hell of a team when Brooking & Keegan were fit. And it was solid as rock at the back.
Ah, cheers for the history lesson
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  #129  
Old 30-01-2018, 05:57 PM
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Linekar and a young Owen for me.
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  #130  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:03 PM
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Linekar and a young Owen for me.
Forgot about Owen too...

So:

Shilts
Neville
Ferdinand
Campbell(or Phil Thompson)
Sansom (or Coles)
Gascoigne
Brooking
Keegan
Barnes (or Waddle)
Coppell
Linekar (or Owen)

Probably needs a midfield chopper.
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  #131  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:26 PM
AndyB AndyB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Forgot about Owen too...

So:

Shilts
Neville
Ferdinand
Campbell(or Phil Thompson)
Sansom (or Coles)
Gascoigne
Brooking
Keegan
Barnes (or Waddle)
Coppell
Linekar (or Owen)

Probably needs a midfield chopper.
Would say Bryan Robson for midfield chopper - cant see Gascoigne and Brooking working well together,..also case for Butcher at Centre Back and Pearce at Left back
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  #132  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
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Would say Bryan Robson for midfield chopper - cant see Gascoigne and Brooking working well together,..also case for Butcher at Centre Back and Pearce at Left back
Forgot about Psycho too
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  #133  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:32 PM
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Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. The reason we do so poorly is because these are players that have represented England at major competitions :-
Graham Rix, Paul Mariner, Steve Foster 1982
Peter Reid, Steve Hodge, Terry Fenwick 1986
Steve McMahon, Neil Webb 1990
Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Andy Sinton, Martin Known, Tony Daley, Alan Smith 1992
Phil Neville, Emil Heskey 2000
Danny Mills, Nicky Butt, Trevor Sinclair, Kieron Dyer, Darius Vassell 2002
Vassell & Dyer 2004
Jamie Carragher, Stuart Downing, Peter Crouch 2006
Robert Green, Glenn Johnson, Matthew Upson, Gareth Barry, Shaun Wright Phillips 2010
Jolean Lescott, Leighton Baines, Scott Parker, Jordan Henderson, Ashley Young, Theo Walcott, Andy Carroll 2012
Phil Jagielka, Danny Welbeck 2014

That's just off the top of my head. I've prob ably missed a few duffers. A fair proportion of the above were starters if not subs that came on to change the game!
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Last edited by Billy Gilbert; 30-01-2018 at 06:37 PM.
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  #134  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
82 they ruined the tournament by have groups of 3 in the 2nd round. Utterly mad idea.



England won all their 1st round games (without Brooking & Keegan) including spanking semi-finalists France 3-1 and in the second round drew 0-0 with Germany and Spain and went home without losing and having only conceded 1 goal.



That was one hell of a team when Brooking & Keegan were fit. And it was solid as rock at the back.

Yes I've always believed 1982 rather than 1990 was our true best chance of winning the World Cup. As you say we won our group with a 100 per cent record including beating the French with ease, who should have knocked out Germany in the semi finals. We were eliminated without losing a game. By contrast the eventual winners Italy were pretty ordinary and qualified from their group after three draws before mugging off Brazil in one of the all time classic games - Brazil basically refusing to defend and paying the price for having a comedy keeper.

Had we found a goal against Germany in the second round group phase then we'd have been perfectly capable of beating France again in the semis and Italy in the final, particularly with Keegan and Brooking returning to fitness.
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  #135  
Old 30-01-2018, 06:47 PM
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Interesting that Elwiss includes Des Walker, brilliant in club football but did not tear up trees as an international football.

Also surprised that Roy Mcparland did not make the list and that some one picks Pearce over Sansom.
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  #136  
Old 30-01-2018, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Forgot about Owen too...

So:

Shilts
Neville
Ferdinand
Campbell(or Phil Thompson)
Sansom (or Coles)
Gascoigne
Brooking
Keegan
Barnes (or Waddle)
Coppell
Linekar (or Owen)

Probably needs a midfield chopper.
Ca

Can't believe Shilton instead of Banks or have I missed something
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  #137  
Old 30-01-2018, 07:22 PM
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Ca

Can't believe Shilton instead of Banks or have I missed something
I think we had to exclude 1970 according to opening post.
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  #138  
Old 30-01-2018, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Bassett View Post
Interesting that Elwiss includes Des Walker, brilliant in club football but did not tear up trees as an international football.

Also surprised that Roy Mcparland did not make the list and that some one picks Pearce over Sansom.
Walker was a key defender when we got to the semi final in 1990 and played in 50 of 53 internationals after his debut. His international career was ended when he was outpaced by Marc Overmars in a qualifier at Wembley in 1993, although he continued to play for Sheffield Wednesday for another 8 years, 7 of which were in the PL. Unfair to say he did not tear up trees, although neither was he really part of a golden generation
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  #139  
Old 30-01-2018, 07:26 PM
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Des Walker was one hell of a defender and at his peak he was lightning quick too.
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  #140  
Old 30-01-2018, 07:34 PM
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Speaking of centre backs - back in 1986 England had a settled and unbeaten partnership in Alvin Martin & Terry Butcher. But Sir Bobby in his wisdom dropped AM to play Terry Fenwick because he was afraid of Maradona's pace and he Fenwick was quicker apparently. I think Maradona went passed Fenwick twice when scoring his second goal (the one where he used his feet)
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