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  #38701  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:06 PM
cdm61 cdm61 is offline
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Originally Posted by pfc View Post
So what benefits do these 8.4 million get from being members of the EU that they will not get once the U.K has left?
If they are in a state already due to the economic policies of our government you need to reverse the question - what benefits will they get from leaving the EU/SM/CU
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  #38702  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pfc View Post
So what benefits do these 8.4 million get from being members of the EU that they will not get once the U.K has left?
The main benefit they get is an economy with a larger tax income that can afford (if it chooses) to help them.

The main thing they'll lose by leaving the EU is the tax revenue in the system to help them.

Of course its still down to the government to choose to help them, but then it always has been.

So ... same question back to you as asked initially - how will leaving the EU help them?
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  #38703  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I'm sure Mik59 can give you a list of decisions taken by the government with out referring to parliament. Its not the cabinet it will be committees.

In any event I expect the amount of minor changes that have to be made would bring parliament to a grinding halt.
Yes, there is the use of regulatory powers by Governments and these have minimal scrutiny. However, they are usually used within agreed limits, and they are subject to retrospective challenge. Few are reviewed or fail to pass review. The last one was Graylings attempt to change some justice regs.

The issue here is 1. the scope of executive powers proposed by the Government has no precedent in modern Constitutional history e.g. the "Repeal Bill" proposes some limits but also proposes that the Government can itself change the legislation without Parliament so Government could easily just remove the limits on itself. 2. review assumes some passage through the Commitees but if those committees are loaded with Tory MPs, against past rules, then combining 1 and 2 = government by fiat or diktat.
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  #38704  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
The main benefit they get is an economy with a larger tax income that can afford (if it chooses) to help them.

The main thing they'll lose by leaving the EU is the tax revenue in the system to help them.

Of course its still down to the government to choose to help them, but then it always has been.

So ... same question back to you as asked initially - how will leaving the EU help them?

And where does this tax revenue come from?

Well the membership money we would be saving could be used in a way to benefit the people who cant afford food daily people who are using food banks. Open more schools. Upgrade infrastructure
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  #38705  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
The main benefit they get is an economy with a larger tax income that can afford (if it chooses) to help them.

The main thing they'll lose by leaving the EU is the tax revenue in the system to help them.

Of course its still down to the government to choose to help them, but then it always has been.

So ... same question back to you as asked initially - how will leaving the EU help them?
With less access to overseas staff, domestic employers / the government will in theory have to focus on training people in the U.K while making jobs more attractive.

Case in point, the NHS is likely to see a sizeable shortage of staff. In theory this will mean the gov will have to increase pay rates to attract more staff into the profession to compete for a smaller pool of a potential workforce.

Now whether these sorts of effects will offset reduced economy size etc remains to be seen.
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  #38706  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:52 PM
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Excessive carb diet and low quality fats + plus sugar = cheap food = obesity
Either that or excessive eating and no exercise.
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  #38707  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
From experience poorer people tend to buy cheaper food. Cheaper food is usually not as healthy and leads to obesity. The two are linked. Feed the family for 3 ready made spaghetti bolognese from Iceland or but the ingredients and cook it for say 5. It is literally a choice people have to make.
Funnily enough I popped into Iceland yesterday, Prawns, Fish, chips and summer fruits cheesecake, the quality was superb.
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  #38708  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pfc View Post
And where does this tax revenue come from?

Well the membership money we would be saving could be used in a way to benefit the people who cant afford food daily people who are using food banks. Open more schools. Upgrade infrastructure
Do you honestly not know where tax revenue comes from?

As simplistically as I can explain, it comes from people spending, companies making profits, and buying property as well as inheritances etc.

This membership money we'll be saving is getting rather oversubscribed what with it already going to the NHS, isn't it?

Of course, any saving made by not paying our contributions to the EU must first be reconciled against any money we have to pay to the EU for leaving, and against any loss of GDP as a result of leaving. It may turn out that no saving is made at all. Certainly those parts of the country that virtually existed on EU subsidies such as Cornwall etc will find it difficult to open more schools or upgrade their infrastructure.
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  #38709  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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Now whether these sorts of effects will offset reduced economy size etc remains to be seen.
Indeed.
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  #38710  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:58 PM
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Well after Brexshit you can intern them and get rid can't you

I'll make a note of that, they'll have to wait their turn though the BTLers are first.
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  #38711  
Old 13-09-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pfc View Post
And where does this tax revenue come from?

Well the membership money we would be saving could be used in a way to benefit the people who cant afford food daily people who are using food banks. Open more schools. Upgrade infrastructure
Oh yeah the famous 350m per week - now that's a big old lie - still going to have to pay for access to the SM/Rebuild a CU/Replace the holes in the economy...and public services and hire 1,000 trade negotiators - think you'll find you've been duped again
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  #38712  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:00 PM
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I'll make a note of that, they'll have to wait their turn though the BTLers are first.
Don't worry the Brexshit Group Leaders are way in front of you. They might offer you a menial task like guarding the camps.
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  #38713  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
Do you honestly not know where tax revenue comes from?

As simplistically as I can explain, it comes from people spending, companies making profits, and buying property as well as inheritances etc.

This membership money we'll be saving is getting rather oversubscribed what with it already going to the NHS, isn't it?

Of course, any saving made by not paying our contributions to the EU must first be reconciled against any money we have to pay to the EU for leaving, and against any loss of GDP as a result of leaving. It may turn out that no saving is made at all. Certainly those parts of the country that virtually existed on EU subsidies such as Cornwall etc will find it difficult to open more schools or upgrade their infrastructure.
These tax revenues will still be there, people are not going to stop spending, companies will still make profits, people will still be buying properties and I'm pretty certain people will still die and have to pay inheritance tax. People will still be working in the UK and paying taxes also. I thought there was some special EU money we received into our coffers that I'd never heard of that you were speaking of

Now what benefits do they really get?

Last edited by pfc; 13-09-2017 at 01:05 PM.
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  #38714  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pfc View Post
These tax revenues will still be there, people are not going to stop spending, companies will still make profits, people will still be buying properties and I'm pretty certain people will still die and have to pay inheritance tax.

Now what benefits do they really get?
Why the **** should I keep answering your pithy questions when you don't deign to answer a single one of mine?

Carry on failing to understand the world you live in. Makes no odds to me.
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  #38715  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:10 PM
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I'll make a note of that, they'll have to wait their turn though the BTLers are first.
Hopefully we wont see any u-turns from landlord Phil. Doesn't seem to be much appetite for it though.
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  #38716  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
Do you honestly not know where tax revenue comes from? Yes I do you also forgot income tax

As simplistically as I can explain, it comes from people spending, companies making profits, and buying property as well as inheritances etc.People will still be spending,
companies will still be making money, people will still be buying properties and people will still be dieing


This membership money we'll be saving is getting rather oversubscribed what with it already going to the NHS, isn't it?Who knows how its going to be spent but there are many options

Of course, any saving made by not paying our contributions to the EU must first be reconciled against any money we have to pay to the EU for leaving, and against any loss of GDP as a result of leaving. It may turn out that no saving is made at all. Certainly those parts of the country that virtually existed on EU subsidies such as Cornwall etc will find it difficult to open more schools or upgrade their infrastructure.
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  #38717  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:16 PM
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Answered
You haven't answered the simple question that he asked.
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  #38718  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:34 PM
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These tax revenues will still be there, people are not going to stop spending, companies will still make profits, people will still be buying properties and I'm pretty certain people will still die and have to pay inheritance tax. People will still be working in the UK and paying taxes also. I thought there was some special EU money we received into our coffers that I'd never heard of that you were speaking of

Products and services get more expensive, wages don't keep up with inflation, people will spend less, companies will make smaller profits, old people will spend any inheritance on care homes... tax revenues will drop.
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  #38719  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:51 PM
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A question for you all.

Do we think there is a correlation between those people who back Parish and those that oppose him and those that are remainers and those that are Brexiteers (in the same way that those people who support capital punishment tend to be on the Brexit side of the fence)?

It's an innocent question. Honestly.
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  #38720  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:57 PM
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Well the membership money we would be saving could be used in a way to benefit the people who cant afford food daily people who are using food banks. Open more schools. Upgrade infrastructure
EU contributions, net of receipts etc, are just 7.1billion on average (over past 5 years) whereas total UK annual public spend is 814 billion, so that "saving" isn't not going to add much.

Moreover, even that Economists for Brexit bunch admit in their small print that UK income will go down so that "saving" will be offset and worth less. How much depends whose estimation you read.
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