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  #20101  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:21 AM
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It's good that the unelected tory government has been challenged about brexit but not good that the 3 elected assemblies of Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland have been excluded from the process
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  #20102  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
They didn't have an agenda before looking at the evidence.
8 of them didn't, clearly
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  #20103  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
ten minutes ago! Second independence referendum in Autumn 2018 is the SNP's official stance now.
Fantastic news
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  #20104  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
Anarchists? Are you sure? They are a no-law unto themselves. Don't think any true Anarchist would be 'whoooping' over this.
There are no true anarchists, just edgy adult children who call themselves it despite showing little interest in moving to Somalia which has enjoyed a state of literal anarchy since 1991.
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  #20105  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
Talk of a second referendum already.

Superb.
No point. Leave would win again sadly (and probably by a slightly larger majority - say 55/45ish) as there really would be a point this time about elites trying to block democracy and the public don't like being dicked around by MPs.

The fact that nothing that untoward has happened YET to the economy would also jumped on my right wing press as sign that out of touch elites were trying the steal the country away based on lies blah blah blah and that would get them over the line again and with an even stronger mandate to utterly **** the country in whatever form they saw fit.

Just let it it happen but argue like hell about the outcomes and ensure that MPs ask difficult questions in Parliament and make Fox and Davis as uncomfortable as possible.

Wait 15-20 years when a lot of the loon pensioners have died off and then re-join when it's clear almost no one who voted out the first time around benefitted in any way and loads of younger educated people have pissed off abroad. Waste of everyone's time but there you have it.
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  #20106  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by keltic eagle View Post
It's good that the unelected tory government has been challenged about brexit but not good that the 3 elected assemblies of Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland have been excluded from the process
Why is that. Only limited powers were dissolved to those Assemblies, so it is hardly surprising that the House of Lords determined that. However, in Nicola Sturgeon's little world she probably thinks she is omnipotent ... based on a rather flakey economic model a few years ago, that is without any credibility now.
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  #20107  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Only good that has come of this it puts Sturgen back in her box, as their parliaments have no say according to the court.
The Scottish parliament having no say was already known so not sure why the court needed to make a comment on this at all, unless simply to clarify the obvious.

However you think that puts her back in her box? Seriously?

It could prove to be the total opposite. Apparently the Scottish parliament will be voting on the triggering of article 50 which I guess is just so Westminster knows the feelings of the Scottish government. It is then down to how the Scottish populace react to all of this that will then help Sturgeon in deciding whether she applies strong pressure for another Independence referendum.
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  #20108  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
We all knew these people would do this anyway, telegraph predicated back in December it would be 8-4 anyway.

Only good that has come of this it puts Sturgen back in her box, as their parliaments have no say according to the court.
How did the Telegraph come to that conclusion? Was it based on the background of the Judges?
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  #20109  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by keltic eagle View Post
It's good that the unelected tory government has been challenged about brexit but not good that the 3 elected assemblies of Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland have been excluded from the process
Because the SNP are idiots. The last in particular of those 50 amendments is quite funny (even though the bill hasn't been presented), as this would totally undermine any negotiation with the EU. The SNP must think we are as stupid as them.


The Scottish National Party, which does not back Brexit, has welcomed the decision and vowed to table 50 amendments to the legislation brought before the Commons.

The party calls them "serious and substantive".

One of the most significant will be a role for the devolved powers in triggering Article 50.

The 50 amendments include:

- A call on the UK government to publish a White Paper before invoking Article 50 as recommended by the Select Committee on Exiting the European Union.

- That the UK government must seek unanimous agreement of the Joint Ministerial Committee (JMC) that the triggering of Article 50 encompasses the devolved administrations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

- There should be agreement with the European Commission that any failure of the UK Parliament to ratify the final terms of negotiation will result in a revision of the current terms of UK membership.
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  #20110  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
How many MPs will be brave enough to vote against the will of the people?

Ken Clarke has I think already says he will (based on the fact his own constituency voted Remain) and I dare say a handful of others will join him. I would have to guess also that the SNP MPs en masse will vote against it, using the same argument as Ken Clarke as justification and giving further justification to try and trigger another Independence referundum when parliament ratifies the triggering of article 50.
Depends on what the will of their constituents are. If they are the MP for a Remain area, or the terms will in their opinion do create social and economic damage they may vote against triggering Article 50.
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  #20111  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:30 AM
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The judgement is a welcome reminder of our political process. The fact that three judges dissented vindicates the government's decision to appeal the original decision: a unanimous verdict would have been embarrassing.

It appears that it is generally agreed that Article 50 is irreversible, so the parliamentary vote at this stage will ensure Brexit takes place.

Any vote at the end will give a choice between accepting the agreed terms or leaving without an agreement in place, which is no real choice at all.

I would welcome someone explaining how the EU will decide to accept any agreement. Is it down to the Commission, the parliament or the individual countries?
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  #20112  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Norwoodsman View Post
No point. Leave would win again sadly (and probably by a slightly larger majority - say 55/45ish) as there really would be a point this time about elites trying to block democracy and the public don't like being dicked around by MPs.

The fact that nothing that untoward has happened YET to the economy would also jumped on my right wing press as sign that out of touch elites were trying the steal the country away based on lies blah blah blah and that would get them over the line again and with an even stronger mandate to utterly **** the country in whatever form they saw fit.

Just let it it happen but argue like hell about the outcomes and ensure that MPs ask difficult questions in Parliament and make Fox and Davis as uncomfortable as possible.

Wait 15-20 years when a lot of the loon pensioners have died off and then re-join when it's clear almost no one who voted out the first time around benefitted in any way and loads of younger educated people have pissed off abroad. Waste of everyone's time but there you have it.
EU will not exist in 15 - 20 years time.
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  #20113  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
The Scottish parliament having no say was already known so not sure why the court needed to make a comment on this at all, unless simply to clarify the obvious.

However you think that puts her back in her box? Seriously?

It could prove to be the total opposite. Apparently the Scottish parliament will be voting on the triggering of article 50 which I guess is just so Westminster knows the feelings of the Scottish government. It is then down to how the Scottish populace react to all of this that will then help Sturgeon in deciding whether she applies strong pressure for another Independence referendum.
Bring it on if thats what they want but if there leaves then a hard border and they use the Euro.

Spain would likely block their EU entry anyway
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  #20114  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Because the SNP are idiots
So speaks the little Englander who shows no understanding of why they are so popular up here. Even with those against Scottish Independence.
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  #20115  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
Possible clause insertion in the Act of Parliament to come and that could be supported by enough MPs from all sides.

Fingers crossed.
more chance of Palace getting into the CL !
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  #20116  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:33 AM
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Lib Dems/SNP will oppose, Tories will generally fall in line although a few rebels might come about. Labour? MPs massively pro remain. Labour seats voted to leave. Most Labour voters went for remain. Labour leader has brexit sympathies but needs to oppose Tories.

Another reason why we need a snap election before the vote so people in Labour seats can decide if they want a Corybinite, a moderate Labour candidate or a Lib Dem (or even a Ukipper!) voting on their behalf.
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  #20117  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
So speaks the little Englander who shows no understanding of why they are so popular up here. Even with those against Scottish Independence.
but theres' no chance of a win for the Scottish Leave (Sexit ?) is there ?
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  #20118  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:38 AM
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So we have parliamentary sovereignty... aren't we all happy today?
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  #20119  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by viking's no1 View Post
How did the Telegraph come to that conclusion? Was it based on the background of the Judges?
Sorry 7-4

Either way, here's the December article. To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #20120  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Skin Up View Post
Lib Dems/SNP will oppose, Tories will generally fall in line although a few rebels might come about. Labour? MPs massively pro remain. Labour seats voted to leave. Most Labour voters went for remain. Labour leader has brexit sympathies but needs to oppose Tories.

Another reason why we need a snap election before the vote so people in Labour seats can decide if they want a Corybinite, a moderate Labour candidate or a Lib Dem (or even a Ukipper!) voting on their behalf.
No need for another GE. Most MPs will support the will of the people even if it goes against their own beliefs.

A vote to trigger article 50 will happen.
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