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  #21041  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
A "complete rotten plank"....?

Steady on there chap,calm down...

I was going to just say plank. And then the image of being water-logged got into my head...
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  #21042  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:24 PM
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I was going to just say plank. And then the image of being water-logged got into my head...
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  #21043  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:31 PM
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Interesting that Facebook doesn't see a problem with what 'Peter Ariff' posted.
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  #21044  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:43 PM
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Interesting that Facebook doesn't see a problem with what 'Peter Ariff' posted.
What did he say, and who is he?
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  #21045  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I did, yes.

But, if you examine my replies, I stated quite clearly I was completely open to being persuaded by your explanation, if you chose to give one. Of course you refused to do that, despite - as can be seen - repeated requests. And, as here, you could not avoid the personal which so often undermines your whinnying.

So, no. I didn't dismiss it ; I dismissed you. And I was right to do so. As I said, can't believe you quoted that thread ; makes you look like a complete rotten plank.



Yes you said how "open" you were to an explanation (just once not "repeatedly") literally just a post or two after you'd described this as a "desperate explanation" - in other words you'd already stated that you weren't in the least bit open.

I wonder what you'd be saying now if this had been about anti-semitism and it'd been me not you posting this kind of flim-flam?

Actually, I don't wonder at all, I'm pretty sure I know the sort of thing you'd be coming out with. You are intellectually smart enough to be so much better than this.
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  #21046  
Old 31-07-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Interesting that Facebook doesn't see a problem with what 'Peter Ariff' posted.
Is this supposed to be a joke?

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  #21047  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:00 PM
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What did he say, and who is he?






There's loads more but I'm sure you get the idea
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  #21048  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:02 PM
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There's loads more but I'm sure you get the idea
Ta. A basket case then.

Is he a known basket case in some way, or just another random racist posting on social media?
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  #21049  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Interesting that Facebook doesn't see a problem with what 'Peter Ariff' posted.
I trust you did though,Nick?
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  #21050  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:13 PM
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There have been a lot of insults flying about on this thread but "complete rotten plank" is definitely my favourite.
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  #21051  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:15 PM
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So the gauge of what is correct is Facebook? I find that an odd position to take. Odd bedfellows are caused by acrobatic acts of defence i suppose.
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  #21052  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
I trust you did though,Nick?
Of course I did.
The Peter Arif Facebook page is as real as the Zinoviev papers apparently. No record of labour membership, nor momentum. But the mail led with it anyway.
Seems it's someone trying to stir up shit.

This is the problem arising, yes there are pockets of anti semitism that needs to be rooted out, but this is obfuscated by mischief makers (Tory Twitter army anyone? To view the link you have to Register or Login ) and anti Corbyn mp's and media.
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  #21053  
Old 31-07-2018, 05:45 PM
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There's loads more but I'm sure you get the idea
Let's put them on the euro star
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  #21054  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:10 PM
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There's loads more but I'm sure you get the idea
From what I can glean. He's not actually a member of the Labour party and many are questioning the legitimacy of the profile. I will do a deep dive and get back to you.
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  #21055  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:11 PM
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Is this journo being anti Semitic?
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  #21056  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
From what I can glean. He's not actually a member of the Labour party
Doesn't matter, damage has been done.
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  #21057  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:17 PM
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but this is obfuscated by mischief makers (Tory Twitter army anyone? To view the link you have to Register or Login ) and anti Corbyn mp's and media.
Conservatives having a go about anti semitism in the oposicions ranks...That is a good thing and thats what they are supposed to do ?

Yes,yes those useless bunch of clowns are bad as well but even with that being said Labour is still neck and neck with these clowns.

Labour mp's having a go about anti semitism in it's own ranks...That also is a good thing and what they are supposed to do?

When do you think Corbyn will become a leader and also do something concrete about anti semitism rather than just moving the goalposts so it aligns with his views which so far has done him no good at all.
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  #21058  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:24 PM
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So, I have done some quick digging. The only Peter or P Arif I can find in the UK would be a male thought to be 65+ and last known to be living an an address in Edmonton in North London.

As far as I can tell he's not deceased so it could perfectly plausibly be our man. However, the location of his 2016 created hate filled Facebook profile is given as Sheffield while the location on his post is middlesborough.

His first posts on facebook are very "Like this if you think ice cream is wonderful" before going on weird conspiracy based racist rants.

This is more likely than not a burner account for someone else using a faked/stolen identity.

I'd suggest Labour may have to do a bit of digging around to see who this really is and then expell them
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  #21059  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:25 PM
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From what I can glean. He's not actually a member of the Labour party and many are questioning the legitimacy of the profile. I will do a deep dive and get back to you.
I was just answering the question of who he was. I don't think some random Corbyn fan being antisemitic on Facebook is really the problem.

This is a good read

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I’m Jewish and a member of the Labour party. Those two facts have never had much to do with each other until recently. They are two parts of my identity that have existed for as long as I can remember, each as important to me as the other. The idea of having to choose between the two was impossible to imagine. But that thought—that one may not be compatible with the other—has slowly lodged itself inside me over the past three years.

There has always been anti-Semitism on the far left. As a student, demonstrating during the build-up to the Iraq War, I saw it on protests, at rallies, in political meetings. The way everything would somehow slide towards a debate about Israel, the comments about Jewish influence, about how many Jews were in the media.

It was surreal—but it was a fringe. Since Jeremy Corbyn became leader, the fringe has entered the party’s upper echelons. And the explanations and the excuses have racked up. Don’t worry, nobody even knows who Jackie Walker is. That’s just Ken, he’s being an idiot. That’s just Christine Shawcroft, she’s an idiot too. Look, it’s just a few random councillors. I know, there are loads of #JC4PM-types saying some pretty nasty stuff—but who knows if they’re even party members. The mural comment looks bad, yes, but it was a long time ago and he’s apologised now. The code—well the thing about the code is you have to see both sides…

Until last week I’d never heard of the IHRA code. Being Jewish, I didn’t need a definition of anti-Semitism. I’ve read it now, like most of us have, and there are lines here and there which I might take issue with. Among Jewish friends and family I’d happily debate it. But no, not with you. Not here in public. Not in 280 characters.

Parsing the code is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is this: the Labour party will not allow Jews to define anti-Jewish discrimination.

This shouldn’t be controversial. The left and liberals have long believed that those who experience discrimination are best placed to define it. Not everyone agrees with this principle, of course, but in those cases, their disagreement is universal—they don’t pick and choose which minorities are allowed this right. If a coalition of prominent black MPs, activists and community leaders drew up a code defining anti-black racism the Labour party would not accept a majority white committee telling them they knew best.

Just treat us the way you treat other minorities. That’s it.

For us, this isn’t a political row. I know it feels like that for many Corbyn supporters—another attack on your leader, including from some of the same people who opposed him in 2015 and 2016, who would oppose him regardless of this issue. They see the bad faith allies and they suit up, taking on the right-wing commentators who seem to care deeply about anti-Semitism in the Labour party, but don’t appear to think it’s worthy of a column when it falls from the mouth of a far-right thug.

But the quickfire tweets, the glib responses, the joy of the counter-attack—that all takes on a different texture here. It’s not two wings of a party fighting for supremacy. It’s you telling me that my identity doesn’t matter.

***

I listened to the Pete Willsman tape last night. For those who haven’t heard it yet, it’s a recording of a member of the Labour party’s ruling body, the NEC, ranting about Jews. (Willsman has previously sat on the party’s disputes committee, which deals with—among other things—antisemitism.) Transcribing his words does not do them justice. You need to listen to him, listen to the hate in his voice, the way his voice rises, full of righteous anger as he dismisses all complaints of anti-Semitism; suggests the online abuse may have been fabricated.

Having now apologised, the party will not discipline him. Willsman is currently running for re-election, and has every chance of being successful.

Why? Because he is backed by Momentum, running under the banner of the “JC9”, a slate whose name is meant to indicate the candidates’ support for Jeremy Corbyn.

The Labour leader was in the room when Willsman was speaking. He heard Willsman demand that the 68 rabbis, representing a broad spectrum of Jewish opinion in Britain, who have warned of anti-semitism within Labour, provide “evidence”—in that tone—and stayed silent.

Now, the tape has been released for all of us to hear. Still, he remains silent.

It is this silence, this complicity, that worries me. The willingness, over decades, to hear anti-Semitic remarks, to speak alongside anti-Semitic speakers, to make friends with people who hold such views and to say nothing.

***

Being a member of a political party involves compromises. During my lifetime the party has always been a broad church, stretching from one Tony to the other. The differences were political—one wing saw the world in a different way to the other.

Some policies, positions or comments make you angry, but you remain because the overall package is still the right one for you and the way you see the world. In the 22 years since I first joined I’ve railed against vouchers for asylum seekers, tuition fees, immigration detention, more tuition fees, the war in Iraq, 90 days, 42 days and many, many more. I’ve weighed them up, I’ve made my choice, I’ve stayed. This is what it means to be in a political party. I just never thought I’d have to make such a judgment on my own identity.

It is a compromise I cannot make. Others will, and I don’t judge them for that. We all have to make our own decisions and I know that some people will disagree with me. But I no longer feel that these two parts of my identity can be reconciled. I’m Jewish and I’m no longer a member of the Labour party
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I thought this line ..."the party has always been a broad church, stretching from one Tony to the other..." was a nice touch.
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  #21060  
Old 31-07-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
So, I have done some quick digging. The only Peter or P Arif I can find in the UK would be a male thought to be 65+ and last known to be living an an address in Edmonton in North London.

As far as I can tell he's not deceased so it could perfectly plausibly be our man. However, the location of his 2016 created hate filled Facebook profile is given as Sheffield while the location on his post is middlesborough.

His first posts on facebook are very "Like this if you think ice cream is wonderful" before going on weird conspiracy based racist rants.

This is more likely than not a burner account for someone else using a faked/stolen identity.

I'd suggest Labour may have to do a bit of digging around to see who this really is and then expell them
Should start with all the Haagen Dazs shops and take it from there.

Les is oposicions a French Canadian word?
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